Liverpool replace reserve team boss

Oh come... Didn't think I needed to spell it out. Our previous boss appoints two coaches in the youth set up "leaves them alone" they do well he gets the credit. He appoints the reserve team coach works with him and it fucks up, Kenny replaces him and he still gets the credit hehehe you couldn't make it up honestly.

Didn't realise Roy even visited the Academy never mind bring in new staff.

Didn't realise Roy even visited the Academy never mind bring in new staff.

 

Ya Rafa deserves great credit for bringing in them 2 coaches in, we will reap the rewards of the next couple of years. Do you really think John McMahon was Rafa appointment, ya sure he was. Our youth set up was not working and Rafa made the right changes

so you just dismiss Mcmahons appointment at the same time, priceless.

Ya I don't think Rafa said go get me Steve McMahon brother John from Tranmere, do you. Pretty obvious Rafa had very little say in that one, I was actually surprised at the appointment at the time. Think someone had a word in our former chief executive ear

Oh come... Didn't think I needed to spell it out. Our previous boss appoints two coaches in the youth set up "leaves them alone" they do well he gets the credit. He appoints the reserve team coach works with him and it fucks up, Kenny replaces him and he still gets the credit hehehe you couldn't make it up honestly.

I'm honestly not being obtuse here gazza but you've lost me. Seriously, what are you on about? Who get's what credit? Credit for what?

The reserve team boss has been replaced. I am assuming (but I may be wrong) he's been replaced because the work in the youth set up hasn't been taken forward by McMahon. Kenny (or whoever) therefore believes there is room for improvement at reserve team level.

Have I missed something? Should I be giving 'credit' to Kenny for sacking McMahon? Or give 'credit' to Benitez for employing McMahon but not give him 'credit' for employing Rodolfo Borrell and Pep Segura? I'm lost here, help me gazza.

Should I, like Kenny, give 'credit' were it's due or should I not?

Edit: The penny has dropped. Sorry but I'd forgot about your hatred of Benitez. Your post makes some sort of sense now (when taken in that context) but you've got to learn how to let go gazza - that hatred will consume you mate.

Let's hope we can get stronger as a team/club with these recent developments and regain our position at the top.

The news surprised me and, for me, came from no were. Shocked as i believed McMahon was doing a very good job. However, hopefully the club dealt with it it in the proper way and didn't just shift him out. Hope Segura can do a decent job.

Segura for reserves and Rodolfo for U-18. Kenny for first team. Greatest.

Not since the halcyon days of Steve McManaman, Robbie Fowler and Michael Owen have young creative players flourished at Liverpool. The question is WHY? For me, the answer can (partly) be gleaned from John McMahon's recent comments about Liverpool youth prospect Suso:

"He turned 17 on Friday and hopefully he has a bright future at the club. He'll only have that future if he keeps working hard and listens to what the coaching staff are saying to him. But he knows that and we hope he will start working twice as hard now.

"We are looking at developing the whole player here. He has good attributes going forward and in the wide areas but he still needs to learn the other side of the game. He needs to know about the discipline and work that's required in a team, like tracking back, tackling and staying with runners. By playing him in midfield, like we did with Pacheco last year, it will hopefully add that other side to his game".

As a fan of creative players - and the club - these comments really make my blood boil. It's the same old outdated English football thinking that has blighted the sport for decades: complete disregard for the creative aspects of a young player's game and the institution of a system of coaching that 'breeds out' creative instincts by placing the emphasis on tackling, tracking back and 'working hard'.

As we have seen many times over the years, this process of destroying a youngster's creative instincts leads to demotivation and disinterest, with the end result being the young player leaves the club. And who can blame them? When these players are being told all the time time that they're not tackling/tracking back enough, and their natural instincts are being curbed, it's inevitable that they will grow frustrated and ultimately end up leaving.

Furthermore, McMahon's emphasis on 'developing the whole player' is equally maddening. Why do we need a team full of players who can do everything, and play in 5 different positions?! What happened to developing postional specialists? Does Lionel Messi play in 5 different positions? Can he?! WHO CARES. He's a specialist at what he does, and his creative talent has been nurtured and encouraged, and this has allowed him to thrive.

The opposite is true in English football: being good creatively is not good enough; being a specialist in your position is not good enough; you are not deemed to be 'premiership ready' unless you can run 10 miles a game and spend 90% of your time tackling and tracking back and/or playi

To underline his view on 'developing the whole player', McMahon also said the following about Dani Pacheco:

"The boss (Roy Hodgson) is keen on him. He sees Dani filling those wide roles, so when he plays for the reserves he occupies those positions and learns to adapt and play in them. It's good for his development to learn several roles and it will only benefit him, especially if he's required to do a job for the first-team."

Again, instead of developing his creative strengths, McMahon seems dead-set on forcing Pacheco to learn 'several roles'. Apparently, this will 'benefit him'. More than likely, it will dilute Pacheco's effectiveness and have a detrimental impact on his development. No wonder he allegedly wants to leave.

It really is massively frustrating to see this attitude at Liverpool. It is clear that the entire coaching philosophy for young creative players at the club is WRONG and needs to change.

Quique Gonzalez, the former Cadiz youth team coach, said this about Suso when Liverpool signed him:

"He is a left-sided midfielder with extraordinary talent. He has great quality, a good shot, his vision is great and his passing is outstanding. He has a bit of everything and I think they have signed a jewel. He can dribble well and does have great vision. He could be effective playing in the middle.

"What is very important though is that he can score goals. He likes to go into the area as part of the second wave. He has scored a good number of goals from distance too, that is one of his qualities".

Well, Liverpool fans can forget about ever seeing any evidence of this 'extraordinary talent' - if Suso ever makes it into the first team, all evidence of that individual flair will have been exorcised, and he will have probably have instructions to defend for 90% of the time. See Ryan Babel for a prime example of this.

Like so many before him, Suso will not make it; he will not be allowed to make it as the criteria for judging his 'development' will be the following:

* Does he defend enough?
* Does he track back enough?
* Does he tackle enough?
* Does he run enough?

On these counts, he will fail. Messi would also fail this test, as would Maradona, Zidane, Ronaldo, McManaman, Fowler and countless other superb creative talents down the years.

To his credit, Trevor Brooking is fighting a thankless battle to change this anachronistic and outdated approach to coaching in England. He summed it up best with the following insight:

"We...need to change what is being coached. Let's have more small-sided games so that they have more ball time. Let's allow them to have fun, take away the importance of winning and stop the young players being afraid of making mistakes. Concentrate on first touch and technique, allow that a short pass can often be more of a killer ball than the big hoof up to the centre-forwards."

That is the problem in a nutshell, and John McMahon's comments should be a cause for concern for every Liverpool fan, and the Liverpool FC hierarchy (IMO).

When it comes to creative, attacking players, Liverpool's youth coaching philosophy needs to change. 12 years of abject failure is proof of that.

It's time to start allowing creative youth players thrive. It's time to start developing, encouraging and PRIORITISING the attacking talent and technique of young players. If that means they don't spend all their time expending energy on tackling and tracking back SO BE IT.

Did John Barnes and Peter Beardsley run as much as Dirk Kuyt? NO. Did McManaman and Fowler constantly track back all the time? NO. Did it make a blind bit of difference to their superb creative impact on Liverpool FC? NO.

STOP STIFLING THE CREATIVE INSTINCTS OF LIVERPOOL'S YOUNG PLAYERS.

If a positive coaching change is not implemented then Liverpool will have another 12 years of creative youth failure to look forward to.

And won't that be nice?

Agree with the lot of that fella!

Thanks John, but I can understand this descion, will improve relations between u18's and ressies. As mentioned above I think players like Suso will prefer him.

Reserve team used to be the way todays squad players got a game along with any prospects and those returning from injury.Not sure what purpose it seves now.

Reserve team used to be the way todays squad players got a game along with any prospects and those returning from injury.Not sure what purpose it seves now.

Agree 100%. Think people are getting carried away with the under 18 side. We have won the youth cup on many occasions and not many have made it. For some reason un be known to me if you make it to the first team squad you could basically go months without a game even longer if we get knocked out the cups. Play the fuckers in the ressies give them match time.

Maybe that is the reason, McMahon is replaced. Reserve football is very important to big a jump from the u18s straight to first team. I also think winning things u18's means F**k all it is more about performance.

 To often over last ten years we have being more concerned with winning things then developing young players. thank god that has seemed to change now

Maybe that is the reason, McMahon is replaced. Reserve football is very important to big a jump from the u18s straight to first team. I also think winning things u18's means f**k all it is more about performance.

 To often over last ten years we have being more concerned with winning things then

developing young players. thank god that has seemed to change now

Point is it has not changed not at all, if it had a few of the players playing yesterday would not of played. We like to win trophies so drop certain kids back in to try and steal it. Is it out of order? I don't know but we have done it for years.

Reserve team football is still that, changing the coach does not change the teams you face, cannot see how it makes he kids step up any easier to be honest. Yeah some of the kids now know the coach but what about the next batch and the ones after that.

Why wouldn't they have played, i think it is great to play them in competitive football, the performance is more important then the result and it was clear watching the match yesterday we have a much more talented group of players.

Look Gazza most of the regulars are aware you have a personal problem with Rafa getting rid of one of your mates out of the youth set up. The youth set up was clearly not working and had to be changed .

 Even Kenny has praised Rafa for making the changes. I watched the two finals we won under Heighway and while they were great in terms of commitment a bit like utd yesterday, they were short in terms of talent. The team yesterday had an abundance of talent

Why wouldn't they have played, I think it is great to play them in competitive football, the performance is more important then the result and it was clear watching the match yesterday we have a much more talented group of players.

Look Gazza most of the regulars are aware you have a personal problem with Rafa getting
rid of one of your mates out of the youth set up. The youth set up was clearly not working and had to be changed .

 Even Kenny has praised Rafa for making the changes. I watched the two finals we won under Heighway and while they were great in terms of commitment a bit like utd yesterday,
they were short in terms of talent. The team yesterday had an abundance of talent

Errr didn't you say we more concerned at winning things than developing youth, well if we were the likes of Suso and Sterling would be cutting their teeth in the ressies rather than playing against kids.  If you old enough you good enough, last kid we gave a chance was Owen how old was he again?? This is not down to the reserve team coach.

As for the last youth team coach who you like to keep bringing up I think you will find Steve was quoted time and again the lack of chances the kids were getting and the more sh*te that were being signed from abroad rather than local talent.

All this bollocks that the youth set up is working is just that bollocks it's working if you go and spend good money on the likes of Sterling from another club who discovered him. Harder to develop from scratch.

I don't see what the problem is with them playing in the youth cup. Ties biggest complaint has always been that the players don't get enough games at reserve level. They got promoted early because of their talent. They are still young enough to play for the youth side and they came up against a big physical side at the weekend. They weren't playing first years. Good experience for them and I like that the players have overlapped this year. The more games the better. I look forward to seeing how Segura continues the overhaul even if they do bring in players from outside L4

I don't see any benefits for the lads whatsoever to be honest, take Sterling and Suso out and would be a very average team to be honest, some of the defenders will blossom with age but they mature far later.

The reason we loan players out is not because they are playing against better players it's because they playing against experience, players that know every trick in the book that's were our starlets need to now be looking at. The reserve league is a little sh*t but still some good teams and some experience players in there. Playing our kids in games they win 9 nil is nothing more than a Harlem globe trotter match. United were big lads who could get stuck in but what will sterling learn against a big 16 year old. Put him against a big 32 year old with ten years experience he will learn more.

Our Ressies used to be great to watch, only got to four or so this season, I mean why would Carrol not play a game in the ressies rather than getting his fitness back in brief sub appearances for the first team ?

I don't see any benefits for the lads whatsoever to be honest, take Sterling and Suso out and would be a very average team to be honest, some of the defenders will blossom with age but they mature far later.

The reason we loan players out is not because they are playing against better players it's because they playing against experience, players that know every trick in the book that's were our starlets need to now be looking at. The reserve league is a little sh*t but still some good teams and some experience players in there. Playing our kids in games they win 9 nil is nothing more than a Harlem globe trotter match. United were big lads who could get stuck in but what will sterling learn against a big 16 year old. Put him against a big 32 year old with ten years experience he will learn more.

Our Ressies used to be great to watch, only got to four or so this season, I mean why would Carrol not play a game in the ressies rather than getting his fitness back in brief sub appearances for the first team ?

I'm sorry but your being very unfair on Ngoo, Morgan and Coady there.

I'm sorry but your being very unfair on Ngoo, Morgan and Coady there.

Coady may make it, however disagree with Morgan and Ngoo. But hey I hope they all do but I doubt it. Coady is a great leader in the Carra mold but he needs to step up a level IMO.

I'd rather see them get training time with our own first team given the likes of Sterling are still only kids. It's a far more positive atmosphere to have them in then league one. I would like to see us link up with a championship team in order to blood our better reserves for a season. Not a few months at a time a full season.

Jaysus fairly clear u dont have an unbiased few here and for that reasons cant take u serious on this topic. Clear to everyone kenny included rafa did the right thing you and your pal need to get over it

Dont want to turn it into a rafa thread but do you thibk this could be an opening for him?