Jordan Henderson (Liverpool -> Al-Ettifaq (5 months) -> Ajax)

Why are you calling me a plank for simply providing evidence that there's a lot of incorrect stats floating around? Hendo is like Marmite, except that some people value him as a decent squad player. It's when people try to say he's the best in the league it gets on people's nerves. About being me a plank, you're a wet paper towel. Happy you've regressed things to child like playground insults? I didn't come here with negative stats until ridiculous unfounded bias claims were made in an article with no real source, evidence, diagrams.. etc.. might as well start reading Metro if Echo is going to print stuff like that.

If incredibly difficult to get such stats accurately, Opta.. etc could do it. If they did it then it would have been sourced, this Echo article give credit to a random Twitter at the end.

I don’t think through the thread I have ever seen many people say he is the best player in the league - in fact most apart from yourself think he is a very good player who is important to the squad.

You on the other hand are the one who posts something negative the minute after the final whistle blows after the last game where he played well and we won.

I guess that’s the way of the internet fan now - watches game on stream , then once stream finishes comes on to type harsh letters against a player.

Squad player at best !!! He should never be captain

I don’t think through the thread I have ever seen many people say he is the best player in the league - in fact most apart from yourself think he is a very good player who is important to the squad.

You on the other hand are the one who posts something negative the minute after the final whistle blows after the last game where he played well and we won.

I guess that’s the way of the internet fan now - watches game on stream , then once stream finishes comes on to type harsh letters against a player.

Oh it's much worse than that.
After Henderson got sent off on Saturday, that tool was plusing everyone who had a moan and sending PM's to try and get another witch hunt started.

He has zero interest in football, he's only here to wind people up, as evidenced by the post where he stated "I couldn't care less if Klopp thinks differently".

It's beyond bizarre.

I don’t think through the thread I have ever seen many people say he is the best player in the league - in fact most apart from yourself think he is a very good player who is important to the squad.

You on the other hand are the one who posts something negative the minute after the final whistle blows after the last game where he played well and we won.

I guess that’s the way of the internet fan now - watches game on stream , then once stream finishes comes on to type harsh letters against a player.

Come on - Henderson is alright, he’s not great and he’s not bad - he’s just a good player.

Doesn’t score, doesn’t assist, doesn’t really create anything, not great in the tackle but he chases everything down and plays the simple balls brilliantly - sometimes you need that.

I’m happy for him to start against PSG as I think his industry will be valuable.

Come on - Henderson is alright, he’s not great and he’s not bad - he’s just a good player.

Doesn’t score, doesn’t assist, doesn’t really create anything, not great in the tackle but he chases everything down and plays the simple balls brilliantly - sometimes you need that.

I’m happy for him to start against PSG as I think his industry will be valuable.

Sorry to just pick out this bit, but I think that he wins more than his fair share, it's just that he doesn't go to ground.
Lucas used to do it as well, using leg and hip strength to kind of lever an opponent off the ball, then taking control of it.
I actually prefer it, because it means the player isn't out of the game even if he fails to win the ball, and if he does win it, he's ready to pass it more quickly.
I think going to ground is a last resort for Henderson.

Xabi Alonso gave a very interesting interview a few years back, where he spoke about the English attitude towards tackling.

Found it.

There is a pause as Alonso reaches, again, the crux of the issue. A single English word he returns to that, unpacked, analysed and investigated, explains much. "I don't think tackling is a quality," he says. "It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it."

The tackle is perhaps the greatest expression of an English conception of the game – physical, epic, emotional. By definition, reactive. After every tournament knockout, some respond by moaning that England's players did not feel the shirt, that they lacked passion. Alonso admires the sentiment but does not share it. Spain's experience suggests other flaws; passion is a myth to be debunked. "Passion?" he says. "Of course it's necessary but it's more important to have footballing foundations, certainly when developing players. Passion isn't something you work on. It's more important to construct a good team, to know how you are going to play, how to read the match. You have to truly understand the game."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/nov/11/xabi-alonso-spain-england-interview

Come on - Henderson is alright, he’s not great and he’s not bad - he’s just a good player.

Doesn’t score, doesn’t assist, doesn’t really create anything, not great in the tackle but he chases everything down and plays the simple balls brilliantly - sometimes you need that.

I’m happy for him to start against PSG as I think his industry will be valuable.

I'm 50% thinking PSG, undecided. I know he's not usually terrible, but Keita will probably add something he can't. Gini can do Henderson's role and Milner has big game experience. Henderson is suspended against Everton though... I'm not a fan of the Hendo Milner combo either.

Oh it's much worse than that.
After Henderson got sent off on Saturday, that tool was plusing everyone who had a moan and sending PM's to try and get another witch hunt started.

He has zero interest in football, he's only here to wind people up, as evidenced by the post where he stated "I couldn't care less if Klopp thinks differently".

It's beyond bizarre.

Plusing isn't a word. Here we go with the "tool" insults. Camp Hender Defenders must be getting really rattled. I don't know why, most people think he's okay... a few people think he's amazing and a few people think he's sh*te! Personally I think he's a solid 6/10 guy. He is one of the guy's who would be a big fish in a small pond, but small fish in a big pond.. He's not a big fish in a big pond in my opinion. Good squad player but first 11? Not on your nelly! He does a job but he doesn't bring anything special.

Plusing isn't a word. Here we go with the "tool" insults. Camp Hender Defenders must be getting really rattled. I don't know why, most people think he's okay... a few people think he's amazing and a few people think he's sh*te! Personally I think he's a solid 6/10 guy. He is one of the guy's who would be a big fish in a small pond, but small fish in a big pond.. He's not a big fish in a big pond in my opinion. Good squad player but first 11? Not on your nelly! He does a job but he doesn't bring anything special.

Our manager has a totally different opinion

And you don’t need to have 11 big fishes , you need a balanced team and squad and Henderson fits into both very well - everytime Henderson’s fit he plays , he was smack in the middle of the park as we reached the CL Final , he was a key player when Rodgers nearly won the league.

And there is no such thing as “first 11” - it’s all about the whole squad balance and picking the right players depending on the opposition - it’s been that way for over a decade. Henderson will start more games over each season than be doesn’t - because his manager rates him - you don’t but then you aren’t a manager of a Prem league club so maybe you don’t see the whole picture

But the sad thing about your opinion of Henderson is it appears to be a grudge of some sort

The final whistle blows just after 4:50 - you post on here at 4:55 being critical about him after we win. That’s just pathetic

Percentage of forward passes played so far this season: (via Echo)

Henderson (Liverpool) 28%

Fernandinho (Man City) 21%

Jorginho (Chelsea) 25%

Matic (Man United) 22%

Dier (Tottenham) 27%

Again, not a huge fan of stats, but for those that take stats as the gospel, here is a slightly more detailed thread on our passing.

https://twitter.com/SamMcGuire90/status/1067112636205154304

Our manager has a totally different opinion

And you don’t need to have 11 big fishes , you need a balanced team and squad and Henderson fits into both very well - everytime Henderson’s fit he plays , he was smack in the middle of the park as we reached the CL Final , he was a key player when Rodgers nearly won the league.

And there is no such thing as “first 11” - it’s all about the whole squad balance and picking the right players depending on the opposition - it’s been that way for over a decade. Henderson will start more games over each season than be doesn’t - because his manager rates him - you don’t but then you aren’t a manager of a Prem league club so maybe you don’t see the whole picture

But the sad thing about your opinion of Henderson is it appears to be a grudge of some sort

The final whistle blows just after 4:50 - you post on here at 4:55 being critical about him after we win. That’s just pathetic

I wasn't going to post but somebody said they were getting popcorn ready and I didn't want to disappoint them. In seriousness though, what's wrong with posting 5 minutes after the final whistle? Show me in the rules where people shouldn't.

Again, not a huge fan of stats, but for those that take stats as the gospel, here is a slightly more detailed thread on our passing.

https://twitter.com/SamMcGuire90/status/1067112636205154304

I said in the past, without proper diagrams percentages mean nothing. These angle distribution charts show his forward passes are almost sideways, some people would class some passes as forward when others might class the same pass as sideways.

I wasn't going to post but somebody said they were getting popcorn ready and I didn't want to disappoint them. In seriousness though, what's wrong with posting 5 minutes after the final whistle? Show me in the rules where people shouldn't.

We won , we carried on our unbeaten run , Henderson played a decent game - and your first instinct after winning is to be critical of Henderson again - it just shows your mentality

The overriding issue is you don’t seem to give a monkeys about the win - you are more concerned about getting a post out to be critical about Henderson

I wasn't going to post but somebody said they were getting popcorn ready and I didn't want to disappoint them. In seriousness though, what's wrong with posting 5 minutes after the final whistle? Show me in the rules where people shouldn't.

It's more to do with the fact we just overcame a potential banana skin of a game, scored 3 goals and kept a clean sheet.

Instead of celebrating the above you take a pop at one of our players.

We won , we carried on our unbeaten run , Henderson played a decent game - and your first instinct after winning is to be critical of Henderson again - it just shows your mentality

The overriding issue is you don’t seem to give a monkeys about the win - you are more concerned about getting a post out to be critical about Henderson

I was satisfied with the win, I posted so at the time. You are now trying a character assassination because you've ran out of ideas.

I said in the past, without proper diagrams percentages mean nothing. These angle distribution charts show his forward passes are almost sideways, some people would class some passes as forward when others might class the same pass as sideways.

We won , we keep winning yet some tw*ts are more concerned about which direction Henderson passes the ball as if keep possession is something to point fingers at

I was satisfied with the win, I posted so at the time. You are now trying a character assassination because you've ran out of ideas.

You spent the match thread plusing all those being critical then as soon as the game finished you came on here.

It's more to do with the fact we just overcame a potential banana skin of a game, scored 3 goals and kept a clean sheet.

Instead of celebrating the above you take a pop at one of our players.

Don't get taken in by Bananaman, I was one of the only people who didn't have a pop at Hendo whilst he was being sent off. People were saying some heinous things about Henderson at that time and I abstained from commenting.

Those Diagrams really rattled Bananaman, I'm going to refrain from responding to let him calm down.

Sorry to just pick out this bit, but I think that he wins more than his fair share, it's just that he doesn't go to ground.
Lucas used to do it as well, using leg and hip strength to kind of lever an opponent off the ball, then taking control of it.
I actually prefer it, because it means the player isn't out of the game even if he fails to win the ball, and if he does win it, he's ready to pass it more quickly.
I think going to ground is a last resort for Henderson.

Xabi Alonso gave a very interesting interview a few years back, where he spoke about the English attitude towards tackling.

Found it.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/nov/11/xabi-alonso-spain-england-interview

Nice article - I’m with Xabi!

Again, not a huge fan of stats, but for those that take stats as the gospel, here is a slightly more detailed thread on our passing.

https://twitter.com/SamMcGuire90/status/1067112636205154304

Probably what most people have always suspected.

I wasn't going to post but somebody said they were getting popcorn ready and I didn't want to disappoint them. In seriousness though, what's wrong with posting 5 minutes after the final whistle? Show me in the rules where people shouldn't.

Like it or not Ribs - it doesn’t aid your credibility.

Coming on here 5 mins after a cracking, hard fought 3-0 away win - for the sole purpose of kicking the guy you have a noted hard-on for - makes you look like a much bigger fan of “Rib’s hobbyhorses” than the football team.......

You’re perfectly entitled to your opinion (I disagree with it but that’s my opinion only) but you do need to accept that just looked like a pathetic attempt at self promotion to many.

*not a pop - just trying to let you know how it looks.

Nice article - I’m with Xabi!

Whilst Hendo isn't the best tackler, he doesn't have to be, does he? Same goes with Wijnaldum. Their defensive game is more about closing down and harrassing, forcing them into pressure which enables the opposition to make mistakes and losing the ball by either a misplace pass or losing control, which in return allows one of ours within proximity to easily nick the ball or intercept.

Nice article - I’m with Xabi!

It's a completely different perspective that I hadn't considered before, but he's spot on I think.
Sometimes a player has to go to ground, but imo it should be a last option rather than a first.

I think he is a squad player at best but love his attitude. We could do worst too. He's an athlete but not a superstar.

I only question his fitness.