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      Jordan Henderson Player Thread

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      Shabs
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6450: Nov 30, 2018 07:05:17 pm
      Okay so Keita can be the runner, so Ox has nothing to do with this.
      If Klopp wanted a runner he would play Keita, 

      Keita has been injured...
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6451: Nov 30, 2018 07:07:24 pm

      Shabs, I'd get more sense talking to gravy.
      The fella's clueless.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6452: Nov 30, 2018 07:09:23 pm
      He has not been injured in all the games he has been overlooked in, you are just avoiding the question. I asked you two times who you would drop to accommodate ther runner. You don't have the answers to your own suggestions. What an utter joke.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6453: Nov 30, 2018 07:16:03 pm
      He has not been injured in all the games he has been overlooked in, you are just avoiding the question. I asked you two times who you would drop to accommodate ther runner. You don't have the answers to your own suggestions. What an utter joke.

      He has been suffering an injury and illness over the last 5/6 weeks ffs
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6454: Nov 30, 2018 07:19:34 pm
      Do you even understand the position he plays?

      Masch won the ball and gave it to Alonso.

      Didi won the ball and gave it to Gerrard.

      That was their job.

      You expect Henderson to win the ball and then also do what Alonso and Gerrard did.

      These are not my "idea's" these are basic football concepts, which anyone who is serious about the game should understand.
      ffs, it's like a mathematician not knowing his times tables.

      That's the problem here; too many people who have no clue, aren't interested in learning, because they just want to take the easy option and bi*ch and moan.


      I understand it perfectly well , what I don’t understand is how your not managing in the prem being as your such a know it all expert ,the gospel According to Swab agree with me or what you think is irrelevant,

      I actually like Jordan just don’t think at the moment he is playing anywhere near good enough ,if that makes me a bad fan for thinking that ,well guess what there’s an awfull Lot of bad ones sitting in anfield .

       This  is a forum open to anyone’s ideas not just yours,they may not be to your liking he’ll they might all be pish , but None of us is going to be managing a top team anytime soon , so it really doesn’t matter ,
      All I see you doing if you don’t agree is throwing a few childish insults ,everyone is allowed an opinion wether you agree or not , no one forces you to read or like someone’s post Thas allowed as well .
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6455: Nov 30, 2018 07:24:06 pm
      He has been suffering an injury and illness over the last 5/6 weeks ffs
      Klopp puts injured players on the bench then does he?
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6456: Nov 30, 2018 07:27:45 pm
      I understand it perfectly well , what I don’t understand is how your not managing in the prem being as your such a know it all expert ,the gospel According to Swab agree with me or what you think is irrelevant,

      I actually like Jordan just don’t think at the moment he is playing anywhere near good enough ,if that makes me a bad fan for thinking that ,well guess what there’s an awfull Lot of bad ones sitting in anfield .

       This  is a forum open to anyone’s ideas not just yours,they may not be to your liking he’ll they might all be pish , but None of us is going to be managing a top team anytime soon , so it really doesn’t matter ,
      All I see you doing if you don’t agree is throwing a few childish insults ,everyone is allowed an opinion wether you agree or not , no one forces you to read or like someone’s post Thas allowed as well .

      I don't think you're a bad fan.

      Lookit, why do you and others expect the deepest midfielder to also be the most creative when that job is not and never has been the role of a 6 (ish)?

      Do you expect the centrebacks to be creative?

      Or do you expect the 6 (ish) to win the ball, recycle possession, screen the CB's, play well defensively, get the ball wide etc etc

      Since when was it the job of the most defensive midfielder to be creative?

      I'll ask again; did you demand that Masch was creative? or Hamann?
      They did the same job, so why do you demand it of Henderson.

      If he was playing further up the field as the 8 I could understand it, but people are demanding something of him that isn't his job.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6457: Nov 30, 2018 07:29:25 pm
      Klopp puts injured players on the bench then does he?

      He has played 12 games so far this season - the ones he has missed was after he hurt his back in Napoli and then on international duty and was then suffering an illness and since then has been on the bench

      He hasn’t been “frozen” out - as with most new guys into the league it’s about ensuring the adjustment to the league is smooth and doesn’t damage the player but then I very much doubt you would understand that
      Shabs
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6458: Nov 30, 2018 07:32:28 pm
      He has not been injured in all the games he has been overlooked in, you are just avoiding the question. I asked you two times who you would drop to accommodate ther runner. You don't have the answers to your own suggestions. What an utter joke.

      You ain’t asked me nothing kiddo, I’ve only engaged with you in the post that I replied too..

      Oh wait...while we’re at it, You still have not answered the question I posed about the ‘double pivot’ in the team you picked to play PSG,How would it work & what does it mean...
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6459: Nov 30, 2018 07:33:49 pm
      You ain’t asked me nothing kiddo, I’ve only engaged with you in the post that I replied too..

      Oh wait...while we’re at it, You still have not answered the question I posed about the ‘double pivot’ in the team you picked to play PSG,How would it work & what does it mean...
      For the 3rd time, who would you drop for Keita?
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6460: Dec 01, 2018 11:35:19 am
      I don't think you're a bad fan.

      Lookit, why do you and others expect the deepest midfielder to also be the most creative when that job is not and never has been the role of a 6 (ish)?

      Do you expect the centrebacks to be creative?

      Or do you expect the 6 (ish) to win the ball, recycle possession, screen the CB's, play well defensively, get the ball wide etc etc

      Since when was it the job of the most defensive midfielder to be creative?

      I'll ask again; did you demand that Masch was creative? or Hamann?
      They did the same job, so why do you demand it of Henderson.

      If he was playing further up the field as the 8 I could understand it, but people are demanding something of him that isn't his job.
      Can’t speak for others but I have never said I expect our deepest midfielder to be the Most creative, what I do expect is him to take the right option when there are maybe two passes on one forward or one straight back to the defender who’s given him the ball , can’t always be a pass on but more often than not there is .

      Do I expect centre backs to be creative , not as much as others granted but there has been many occasions when Joe has been involved in getting us going ,even WD plays us out occasionally , primary job defend granted

      If as you say it’s not his job to create,what else but screen the CB defend well and recycle possession should he be doing?

      It’s everyones job to create if the opportunity arises including him .

      I didn’t demand anything of Masch or Didi same as I don’t of Jordan don’t say he’s on their level please , and yes I can remember Didi striding through midfield .
      Look I like Jordan but the fact remains when I think he’s poor I’ll say so you or no one else have to agree , it’s all about opinions he’ll you can sit there in a live game and have a different opinion to your mate it happens

      Saying Jordan is definitely not there to create is simply not true ,it’s like saying Mane Salah or Bobby are not defenders when we know they defend when called apon , the whole team is there to create in one way or another be it Alisson with a long throw out or Andy flying down the wing Jordan is as much a part of the collective as anyone .
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6461: Dec 01, 2018 12:25:49 pm
      Can’t speak for others but I have never said I expect our deepest midfielder to be the Most creative, what I do expect is him to take the right option when there are maybe two passes on one forward or one straight back to the defender who’s given him the ball , can’t always be a pass on but more often than not there is .

      Do I expect centre backs to be creative , not as much as others granted but there has been many occasions when Joe has been involved in getting us going ,even WD plays us out occasionally , primary job defend granted

      If as you say it’s not his job to create,what else but screen the CB defend well and recycle possession should he be doing?

      It’s everyones job to create if the opportunity arises including him .

      I didn’t demand anything of Masch or Didi same as I don’t of Jordan don’t say he’s on their level please , and yes I can remember Didi striding through midfield .
      Look I like Jordan but the fact remains when I think he’s poor I’ll say so you or no one else have to agree , it’s all about opinions he’ll you can sit there in a live game and have a different opinion to your mate it happens

      Saying Jordan is definitely not there to create is simply not true ,it’s like saying Mane Salah or Bobby are not defenders when we know they defend when called apon , the whole team is there to create in one way or another be it Alisson with a long throw out or Andy flying down the wing Jordan is as much a part of the collective as anyone .

      No, I'm saying his primary role isn't to create, there's a huge difference, but it always gets ignored, just like Mane, Salah's and Firmino's primary role isn't to defend.

      It's really easy to see that he positions himself between, slightly in front of, or to the left of the 2 CB's.
      I see a player sitting there and I don't think "he must be creative" I think "his job is defensive" and that's what I expect from him.
      I expect the creativity to come from the MF who is furthest forwards, or the link man, and at the moment that's Firmino, but because we are lacking that midfield runner to break the lines, he hasn't got the space that he had last season.

      I keep on saying it, and it keeps on being ignored because people would rather slag Henderson; we are lacking in the final 3rd because Ox is injured and Keita has not broken through yet for one reason or another.
      It has very little to do with Henderson.
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6462: Dec 01, 2018 12:36:21 pm
      No, I'm saying his primary role isn't to create, there's a huge difference, but it always gets ignored, just like Mane, Salah's and Firmino's primary role isn't to defend.

      It's really easy to see that he positions himself between, slightly in front of, or to the left of the 2 CB's.
      I see a player sitting there and I don't think "he must be creative" I think "his job is defensive" and that's what I expect from him.
      I expect the creativity to come from the MF who is furthest forwards, or the link man, and at the moment that's Firmino, but because we are lacking that midfield runner to break the lines, he hasn't got the space that he had last season.

      I keep on saying it, and it keeps on being ignored because people would rather slag Henderson; we are lacking in the final 3rd because Ox is injured and Keita has not broken through yet for one reason or another.
      It has very little to do with Henderson.

      No, I'm saying his primary role isn't to create, there's a huge difference, but it always gets ignored, just like Mane, Salah's and Firmino's primary role isn't to defend.

      It's really easy to see that he positions himself between, slightly in front of, or to the left of the 2 CB's.
      I see a player sitting there and I don't think "he must be creative" I think "his job is defensive" and that's what I expect from him.
      I expect the creativity to come from the MF who is furthest forwards, or the link man, and at the moment that's Firmino, but because we are lacking that midfield runner to break the lines, he hasn't got the space that he had last season.

      I keep on saying it, and it keeps on being ignored because people would rather slag Henderson; we are lacking in the final 3rd because Ox is injured and Keita has not broken through yet for one reason or another.
      It has very little to do with Henderson.
      Do you think I’ve slagged Jordan off ?
      I was hoping the same of Keita still hope he is going to be that player he has been restricted so far but when played he has shown promise  ,
      We might have e few words but I don’t think we’re that far away from the same page just don’t see it as black and white as you seem too .
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6463: Dec 01, 2018 12:45:31 pm
      Do you think I’ve slagged Jordan off ?
      I was hoping the same of Keita still hope he is going to be that player he has been restricted so far but when played he has shown promise  ,
      We might have e few words but I don’t think we’re that far away from the same page just don’t see it as black and white as you seem too .

      I didn't say you did mate.
      I just think there's a lot of misconceptions around about what the lad's job is and a few posters who ignore that in favour of a witch hunt.
      For instance, Klopp was very clear that Fabinho was being brought in to replace Can, but some posters ignored it and started banging on about how he was Hendersons replacement, when anyone with sense (or without an agenda) knew that wasn't going to be the case.
      With time, we'll rotate that 6 position between the 2 or have one of them move further up, but the main thing is that we'll have options once Fabinho and Keita are ready, and not see our midfield exhausted by January.

      Now, if someone asked me if Henderson is in his best form, I'd have to say no; he's doing a decent job, but he's not at his best.
      He probably deserves a kick up the arse (like when he got sent off) now and again, but he's far from our weakest link on the field at the moment, and doesn't deserve the amount of sh*t the agenda lads are throwing at him.
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6464: Dec 01, 2018 03:22:36 pm
      I didn't say you did mate.
      I just think there's a lot of misconceptions around about what the lad's job is and a few posters who ignore that in favour of a witch hunt.
      For instance, Klopp was very clear that Fabinho was being brought in to replace Can, but some posters ignored it and started banging on about how he was Hendersons replacement, when anyone with sense (or without an agenda) knew that wasn't going to be the case.
      With time, we'll rotate that 6 position between the 2 or have one of them move further up, but the main thing is that we'll have options once Fabinho and Keita are ready, and not see our midfield exhausted by January.

      Now, if someone asked me if Henderson is in his best form, I'd have to say no; he's doing a decent job, but he's not at his best.
      He probably deserves a kick up the arse (like when he got sent off) now and again, but he's far from our weakest link on the field at the moment, and doesn't deserve the amount of sh*t the agenda lads are throwing at him.

      I actually think once Fabinho settles in he will take Henderson's place as the 6.

      I also actually think Klopp sees him as the most defensive player once he is a first team regular regardless of what he said about him being a replacement for Emre.

      The position Henderson occupies is the exact position Fabinho excels in.

      I remember  reading an article somewhere that revealed stat for stat Fabinho trump's Hendo in all bar passing. I think it was squaka comparing him to Hendo, Gini, Milner, Ox and Keita. I'll see if I can dig it out.

      Also on the Klopp comments, I'm fairly certain it would be stupid of him to say he is replacing a current starter Vs a want away player running his contract down to move to Juventus.

      I'd actually say Keita is more suited to replacing Can out of the two of them.

      Edit: Found it...

      https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.squawka.com/en/news/how-fabinho-compares-to-liverpools-current-central-midfield-options/1038080%3famp-on
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6465: Dec 01, 2018 03:25:02 pm
      Fabinho will take the place at 6 when he is settled meaning Henderson will go into the 8 role ( something already mentioned by Klopp )
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6466: Dec 01, 2018 03:38:42 pm
      I actually think once Fabinho settles in he will take Henderson's place as the 6.

      I also actually think Klopp sees him as the most defensive player once he is a first team regular regardless of what he said about him being a replacement for Emre.

      The position Henderson occupies is the exact position Fabinho excels in.

      I remember  reading an article somewhere that revealed stat for stat Fabinho trump's Hendo in all bar passing. I think it was squaka comparing him to Hendo, Gini, Milner, Ox and Keita. I'll see if I can dig it out.

      Also on the Klopp comments, I'm fairly certain it would be stupid of him to say he is replacing a current starter Vs a want away player running his contract down to move to Juventus.

      I'd actually say Keita is more suited to replacing Can out of the two of them.

      Edit: Found it...

      https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.squawka.com/en/news/how-fabinho-compares-to-liverpools-current-central-midfield-options/1038080%3famp-on

      Decent points, but there's a couple of things I'd point out, the first being that Can played 6 when Henderson was injured, and did an OK job to be fair.
      The second point is that Fabinho needs to translate those stats from the French league into the prem, which is a far tougher league, and a fair bit faster.

      I'm not overly fussed who plays the deeper role as long as they can do the job, although I have to say I prefer Henderson further up the pitch, where he can put his pace, energy and combative play to good use, and also attack more.

      There was an article in the Independent where Klopp spoke about Fabinho replacing Can, and he also spoke about Fabinho being able to play a number of roles, which were the 2, 6 and 8, the same roles Can played, which I don't think is coincidence, after all, we knew Can was going for a year.

      Keita I think will play as the most advanced midfielder, using his powerful running and vision to break down bus parkers, but we may also see him in the 8 when Ox comes back.

      Once the new lads get integrated fully, the one thing we'll have a lot of is options, and I think that can only bode well for us.
      Shabs
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6467: Dec 01, 2018 03:57:45 pm
      Fabinho will take the place at 6 when he is settled meaning Henderson will go into the 8 role ( something already mentioned by Klopp )

      Henderson was bought in as Gerrrads heir but circumstance within the playing staff meant the skipper had to be sacrificed into a DM rathe4 than a B2B midfielder...

      What position was Henderson playing under Rodgers?
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6468: Dec 01, 2018 03:59:37 pm
      Henderson was bought in as Gerrrads heir but circumstance within the playing staff meant the skipper had to be sacrificed into a DM rathe4 than a B2B midfielder...

      What position was Henderson playing under Rodgers?

      He was higher up the pitch and coming from the right a lot
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6469: Dec 01, 2018 04:13:11 pm
      The second point is that Fabinho needs to translate those stats from the French league into the prem, which is a far tougher league, and a fair bit faster.

      I think he'll definitely adjust to the pace of the league and he will transfer his stats to the prem.

      In fact I think his stats will probably go up a fair bit too because of how fast the game is played in the prem compared to in France.

      From what I've seen of him, i think he's going to be a monster when he finally does cement a place in the side.

      Once the new lads get integrated fully, the one thing we'll have a lot of is options, and I think that can only bode well for us.

      Definitely mate, hopefully we very rarely see the dreaded 3 combination and a see bit more ruthlessness and urgency in our attack.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6470: Dec 01, 2018 04:26:08 pm
      I think he'll definitely adjust to the pace of the league and he will transfer his stats to the prem.

      In fact I think his stats will probably go up a fair bit too because of how fast the game is played in the prem compared to in France.

      From what I've seen of him, i think he's going to be a monster when he finally does cement a place in the side.

      It's too early for me to call it a concern, but to me he seems slow off the mark, a bit slow on the turn and has had a tendency to go to ground too much.
      His running once he got up to speed is OK, but it was noticeable a couple of times when we played Cardiff that he was well beaten for pace by their right winger, but TAA took over and Fabinho stepped inside which showed good awareness.
      I'm hoping that the first 2 are just a bit of rustiness, and lack of match fitness, but he can easily make up for it by just dropping off a bit in much the same way Lucas did.
      Going to ground is a last option for me, and he'd do much better to stay on his feet, but again it's likely that he was just a bit too keen to shine and got a bit carried away.
      None of these are really serious deficiencies, and nor are they criticisms, just things I noticed, and that are easily ironed out.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6471: Dec 01, 2018 04:34:32 pm
      Shabs, I'd get more sense talking to gravy.
      The fella's clueless.

      What a great post, by that response you can literally dismiss all other views and posters as being beneath you as you always know better. I'm not sure you quite get the concept of a forum for discussion or humility?
      heimdall
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6472: Dec 01, 2018 04:44:20 pm
      Fabinho will take the place at 6 when he is settled meaning Henderson will go into the 8 role ( something already mentioned by Klopp )

      Wouldn't that mean that Henderson would be expected to run with the ball, I'm not actually sure hes able to do that, I'm being serious I don't think I've ever seen him dribble with the ball or making a surging run or score a goal for that matter, his speciality on the rare occasions he does venture forward is row Z or perhaps Klopp is telling him to blast the ball high every f**king time.
      heimdall
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6473: Dec 01, 2018 04:46:28 pm
      He was higher up the pitch and coming from the right a lot

      Are you being serious, I remember Jordan's first season playing on the right, he was f**king awful, at least as a super negative DM he has some value to the team although you might as well play an extra CB for all the good he does.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6474: Dec 01, 2018 05:06:21 pm
      I just think there's a lot of misconceptions around about what the lad's job is and a few posters who ignore that in favour of a witch hunt.

      Lookit, why do you and others expect the deepest midfielder to also be the most creative when that job is not and never has been the role of a 6 (ish)?

      Do you expect the centrebacks to be creative?

      Or do you expect the 6 (ish) to win the ball, recycle possession, screen the CB's, play well defensively, get the ball wide etc etc

      Since when was it the job of the most defensive midfielder to be creative?

      Why do you assume people think Hendo should be our main creative player when they get frustrated at his lack of creativity or negativity? I never once seen anyone say he should be our main creative player. People are frustrated because, as you alluded to, our 6 isn't quite the pure defensive midfielder (which I agree), and with the time and space he has in games, he should be more positive in possession, whether a pass forward, initiating attacks, drive forward with the ball or even that final ball/key pass (pretty much like all #6's, whether DM or DLPM), but now it's changed? Hendo is now asked to only win the ball, recycle possession, screen the CB's, play well defensively and get the ball wide... pretty much boxing him into a limited pure defensive midfield role, right? However, Fabinho and Wijnaldum for some reason with the same role are more positive/progressive on the ball....

      For instance, Klopp was very clear that Fabinho was being brought in to replace Can, but some posters ignored it and started banging on about how he was Hendersons replacement, when anyone with sense (or without an agenda) knew that wasn't going to be the case.

      It is not about ignoring or an agenda, quite the opposite If you actually watched Fabinho play. Had you done so, you would know he is better off as the deepest midfielder, therefore, it is only logical one would assume he is here to compete or replace Henderson who happens to play the 6 role. Just like it was logical to think Robertson would compete or replace Moreno, or if Dybala were to be bought, one would assume he would compete or replace Firmino.

      The question isn't the skill set (unless Klopp went in blind and just bought him?), Fabinho doesn't have to prove that, it is whether he can settle down in our system and the league, and there is no way better for him to settle by playing games.

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