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      Jordan Henderson Player Thread

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      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6475: Dec 01, 2018 06:16:44 pm
      Why do you assume people think Hendo should be our main creative player when they get frustrated at his lack of creativity or negativity? I never once seen anyone say he should be our main creative player. People are frustrated because, as you alluded to, our 6 isn't quite the pure defensive midfielder (which I agree), and with the time and space he has in games, he should be more positive in possession, whether a pass forward, initiating attacks, drive forward with the ball or even that final ball/key pass (pretty much like all #6's, whether DM or DLPM), but now it's changed? Hendo is now asked to only win the ball, recycle possession, screen the CB's, play well defensively and get the ball wide... pretty much boxing him into a limited pure defensive midfield role, right? However, Fabinho and Wijnaldum for some reason with the same role are more positive/progressive on the ball....

      It is not about ignoring or an agenda, quite the opposite If you actually watched Fabinho play. Had you done so, you would know he is better off as the deepest midfielder, therefore, it is only logical one would assume he is here to compete or replace Henderson who happens to play the 6 role. Just like it was logical to think Robertson would compete or replace Moreno, or if Dybala were to be bought, one would assume he would compete or replace Firmino.

      The question isn't the skill set (unless Klopp went in blind and just bought him?), Fabinho doesn't have to prove that, it is whether he can settle down in our system and the league, and there is no way better for him to settle by playing games.

      Time and time again all these points have been addressed and you keep banging the same drum.

      Fact; Fabinho was brought in to replace the outgoing Can.
      Fact; Klopp said he can play the 2, 6 and 8 but in your agenda chasing desire to see what you thought was going to happen actually come true, you ignore that.


      He'll play more than one position, he'll rotate with our other midfielders, but first he needs to show Klopp he's up to the job, and actually better than Henderson in the role.
      So far he has failed to do that despite your insistence after pre-season (and what kind of idiot judges a player on pre-season games) that he would come in straight away and transform the role.
      Fabinho has it all to prove, both in training and in matches; it doesn't matter a f**k what he's done before, he needs to prove it all over again to his new employers, and again, so far he has failed.
      To say that a player doesn't need to prove himself at a new club is absolute horseshit.

      Hopefully he does prove himself, and improves the team, but I've seen far too many players come and go to say with any certainty that it's a given.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6476: Dec 01, 2018 06:27:07 pm
      Fabinho hasn't had a lot of chances to prove himself, when he played he's done well most of the time, bar a game where everybody sucked! No matter what Klopp said Fabinho is mainly going to be DM, he was brought for that reason. Other positions are handy in times of injury crisis, so it was worth Klopp pointing that out. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fabinho playing left back if Robbo needs a game off and we have a DM spare.

      As for Henderson, there are times he's been the worst player on the pitch and I would agree with those saying he's being wasted in the DM role. I think putting him as an 8 will be a good idea, I doubt he'll be good as Keita but we need more than one midfielder doing those kind of roles due to the amount of games we have. As good as Mane, Firmino and Salah is they can't play every game... Sturridge isn't enough on his own to cover them. Shaqiri may be needed in the front 3 which will give Henderson a chance whilst Ox is out.
      « Last Edit: Dec 01, 2018 06:33:53 pm by Ribapuru »
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6477: Dec 01, 2018 06:30:10 pm
      Hendo is now asked to only win the ball, recycle possession, screen the CB's, play well defensively and get the ball wide... pretty much boxing him into a limited pure defensive midfield role, right? However, Fabinho and Wijnaldum for some reason with the same role are more positive/progressive on the ball....

      Exactly we have 3 players occupying the same area of the pitch in the 6 position playing a vastly different game.

      This is what interests me mate because in my eyes there are only three potential reasons why which are...

      1) Jürgen simply tells them all they are playing the DM/6 and they are free to play exactly how their playing style dictates.

      2) Jürgen sends them out with very specific instructions which some people say Henderson carries out exactly, however the others think f**k it and play their own game.

      3) They are each sent out with different instructions for the exact same position/role within the formation.

      This then brings more questions or thoughts based upon the above scenarios.

      1) Henderson is naturally much more defensive than the other two.

      2) Jürgen is a pushover and allows the lads to dictate how they want to play.

      3) Jürgen plays each player to their strengths, suggesting that Henderson may be lacking in the build up play department and is told to play a lot more defensively.

      Just my thoughts of course.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6478: Dec 01, 2018 06:30:29 pm
      My previous post had a lot of errors, stupid predictive text. Corrected them now.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6479: Dec 01, 2018 06:40:43 pm
      Exactly we have 3 players occupying the same area of the pitch in the 6 position playing a vastly different game.

      This is what interests me mate because in my eyes there are only three potential reasons why which are...

      1) Jürgen simply tells them all they are playing the DM/6 and they are free to play exactly how their playing style dictates.

      2) Jürgen sends them out with very specific instructions which some people say Henderson carries out exactly, however the others think f**k it and play their own game.

      3) They are each sent out with different instructions for the exact same position/role within the formation.

      This then brings more questions or thoughts based upon the above scenarios.

      1) Henderson is naturally much more defensive than the other two.

      2) Jürgen is a pushover and allows the lads to dictate how they want to play.

      3) Jürgen plays each player to their strengths, suggesting that Henderson may be lacking in the build up play department and is told to play a lot more defensively.

      Just my thoughts of course.

      This would carry a lot more weight if Fabinho actually had a reasonable amount of game time in the 6, rather than further up or in a double 6 with Wijnaldum, and if Wijnaldum hadn't immediately been moved out of the position when Henderson was fully fit.

      There's a reason Henderson keeps getting picked there as first choice, and the other 2 don't.
      That may change given time, but at the moment it's just not happening, and I wonder why people are so determined to go all round the houses rather than admit that Henderson is our best option there right now.

      Henderson is the man in possession of the role, he has not been forced out of it by another player, regardless of how people view those options, and he will continue in it until Fabinho shows he can do it better, and so far, he hasn't.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6480: Dec 01, 2018 07:21:30 pm
      Fact; Fabinho was brought in to replace the outgoing Can.

      He was here to fill in the void that Can left, but take into account he is not a like for like and has has a different skill set. As mentioned, Keita  is more so the replacement for Can on paper.

      Fact; Klopp said he can play the 2, 6 and 8 but in your agenda chasing desire to see what you thought was going to happen actually come true, you ignore that.

      We get it, he can play 2, 6 and 8, but again, If you actually watched the player play before, you would know he is more suited as the deepest midfielder and can be considered a specialist rather than an 8/box-boxer , why is that so difficult to understand? Do you think we randomly assume he will take Hendo's position without watching him play previously?

      Imagine buying Dybala and arguing with people that he is a winger without watching his previous matches (Dybala is more a false 9/2nd forward if you didn't know!) after Klopp saying he can play an 8, 7, 10 or 9.

      Is it so wrong to think a player (from any league) we have watched can be better than our own and we can improve on him?

      He'll play more than one position, he'll rotate with our other midfielders, but first he needs to show Klopp he's up to the job, and actually better than Henderson in the role.

      Of course he can, but again, his skill sets are more suited to a 6 role, so one would assume he is here to take the 6 spot.

      Say we bought Jorginho instead of Fabinho, would you not assume he would  play the 6 role for us even if Klopp said he could play a sweeper, 6 or 8?

      So far he has failed to do that despite your insistence after pre-season (and what kind of idiot judges a player on pre-season games) that he would come in straight away and transform the role.

      Another lie, where did I judge him solely on pre-season games? Do you have proof? Just because you don't watch other matches (or even ours) doesn't mean I, or anyone else don't either. I guess people were stupid to think Robertson would be better than Moreno? Alisson than Karius, Salah than Mane etc etc.

      And to be fair to Fabinho, when he has come in, he has given us something different to Henderson. We have more grit in the middle and his possession play is better (imo ofc), so yeah, he has transformed the role and given us something new.

      Fabinho has it all to prove, both in training and in matches; it doesn't matter a f**k what he's done before, he needs to prove it all over again to his new employers, and again, so far he has failed.
      To say that a player doesn't need to prove himself at a new club is absolute horseshit.

      Of course he has it to prove, but why do you think Klopp bought Fabinho? Why that particular player when he could have gone for a more box-boxer (like Can) or a pass master? Do you not think Klopp knows what skill sets he brings to the table? Lol.

      And who exactly is saying he doesn't need to prove himself at a new club? Please point me to that direction.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6481: Dec 01, 2018 07:52:47 pm
      The question isn't the skill set (unless Klopp went in blind and just bought him?), Fabinho doesn't have to prove that, it is whether he can settle down in our system and the league, and there is no way better for him to settle by playing games.

      F***ing hell, you can't even keep your own lies straight.

      Fabinho, at a new club with a new manager needs to prove everything, but first you say he doesn't have to prove "his skill set" which is just another bullshit phrase, probably copied off Phil Neville, then you say "of course he has to prove himself".

      F**k off soft lad, I really can't be arsed with your bullshit anymore.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6482: Dec 01, 2018 08:17:48 pm
      F***ing hell, you can't even keep your own lies straight.

      Fabinho, at a new club with a new manager needs to prove everything, but first you say he doesn't have to prove "his skill set" which is just another bullshit phrase, probably copied off Phil Neville, then you say "of course he has to prove himself".

      F**k off soft lad, I really can't be arsed with your bullshit anymore.

      Why do you think managers buy certain players? There has to be something that peaked their interest, what could that be? Surely it has to be the skill set that the player acquires? Managers know what players bring to the table, so it's not about proving you have the skill set it is more about proving you are capable of adapting and understanding the system, tactics and league don't you think? Aquilani is a great example.

      And it's not bullshit, just your lack of understanding and unwillingness to accept other people's opinion.
      « Last Edit: Dec 01, 2018 08:22:27 pm by PurpleMonkey »
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6483: Dec 01, 2018 08:23:10 pm
      Why do you think managers buy certain players? There has to be something that peaked their interest, what could that be? Surely it has to be the skill set that the player acquires? Managers know what players bring to the table, so it's not about proving you have the skill set it is more about proving you are capable of adapting and understanding the system, tactics and league don't you think?

      It's not bullshit, just your lack of understanding and unwillingness to accept other people's opinion.

      Fella caught out by his own lies tries to say he wasn't caught out by his own lies.

      Typical internet bullshit artist.

      Stick to watching Phil Neville for your opinions fella.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6484: Dec 01, 2018 08:30:07 pm
      Fella caught out by his own lies tries to say he wasn't caught out by his owl lies.

      Typical internet bullshit artist.

      Stick to watching Phil Neville for your opinions fella.

      Nice come back ;D.  I gave a perfectly good reason, no lies, just your lack of understanding.

      And whilst we are talking about P.Neville, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't he know more than you? Isn't he better qualified? Isn't that what you say about Klopp and the reason why he is right and we're all wrong when disagreeing his decisions? So taking that into account, according to you, P.Neville is right, so what gives you the right to question him?! ;)
      heimdall
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6485: Dec 01, 2018 10:32:13 pm
      Nice come back ;D.  I gave a perfectly good reason, no lies, just your lack of understanding.

      And whilst we are talking about P.Neville, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't he know more than you? Isn't he better qualified? Isn't that what you say about Klopp and the reason why he is right and we're all wrong when disagreeing his decisions? So taking that into account, according to you, P.Neville is right, so what gives you the right to question him?! ;)

      Spot on but apparently it's all lies only "female masterbation", aka Swab, knows the truth, he's the only one who is always right.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6486: Dec 01, 2018 11:44:25 pm
      See the Coven is in full cry tonight.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6487: Dec 02, 2018 12:17:29 am
      See the Coven is in full cry tonight.

      Sad isn't it Walton.

      I'm over 60 and I've got more of a social life than this bunch of WUMs.

      They all message each other as well, like a little forum gang.

      Too bad no one takes the sad sacks seriously ;)
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6488: Dec 02, 2018 12:22:41 am
      Nice come back ;D.  I gave a perfectly good reason, no lies, just your lack of understanding.

      And whilst we are talking about P.Neville, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't he know more than you? Isn't he better qualified? Isn't that what you say about Klopp and the reason why he is right and we're all wrong when disagreeing his decisions? So taking that into account, according to you, P.Neville is right, so what gives you the right to question him?! ;)

      His qualifications go as far as "understanding 8 a side"

      A UEFA B license.
      He's too f**king thick to pass any of the others.

      Raising Phil Neville as a fount of football knowledge; the arch repeater himself, and even his own team mates rip the piss out of him for it.  :lmao:

      And of course who can forget the WC classic, where he listened to the English Womens football player, then just repeated what she said as if he'd thought of it himself.

      Phil f**king Neville is being held up as someone "Qualified".
      That's f**king priceless.

      Anyone who has ever given even a passing thought to football, knows that Phil Neville is a joke.
      And you post up his video's, and pretend you know about football  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

      That is truly hilarious.
      What a clipe.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6489: Dec 02, 2018 01:41:30 am
      His qualifications go as far as "understanding 8 a side"

      A UEFA B license.
      He's too f**king thick to pass any of the others.

      Raising Phil Neville as a fount of football knowledge; the arch repeater himself, and even his own team mates rip the piss out of him for it.  :lmao:

      And of course who can forget the WC classic, where he listened to the English Womens football player, then just repeated what she said as if he'd thought of it himself.

      Phil f**king Neville is being held up as someone "Qualified".
      That's f**king priceless.

      Anyone who has ever given even a passing thought to football, knows that Phil Neville is a joke.
      And you post up his video's, and pretend you know about football  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

      That is truly hilarious.
      What a clipe.
      people don't need to have a pro license to make a good point, if so then we should shut the forum down.
      Alfie2510
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6490: Dec 02, 2018 03:37:48 am
      If Henderson was playing at Leicester does anyone think there’d be a que of teams to buy him?
      FL Red
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6491: Dec 02, 2018 03:41:45 am
      If Henderson was playing at Leicester does anyone think there’d be a que of teams to buy him?

      Are there a queue of teams trying to buy Hazard? What about Kante? Jorginho?
      Gill95
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6492: Dec 02, 2018 04:17:17 am
      Are there a queue of teams trying to buy Hazard? What about Kante? Jorginho?

      Teams would jump at the opportunity to buy all 3. Jorginho was monitored by us, city, Chelsea, bunch few, infact he rejected man city to sign for chelsea.  Kante? There is a reason Chelsea gave him 300k per week deal.
      Hazard? His contract is up this year. You'll probably see a bunch of teams.

      And BTW, there is only a queue if a player's agent makes it known to the teams that he wishes to see better offers.
      « Last Edit: Dec 02, 2018 06:24:40 am by Gill95 »
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6493: Dec 02, 2018 10:29:46 am
      Are there a queue of teams trying to buy Hazard? What about Kante? Jorginho?

      yes, yes, yes
      FL Red
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6494: Dec 02, 2018 11:48:37 am

      Odd, I’ve not seen hide nor hair of a rumor that there is.
      Gill95
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6495: Dec 02, 2018 12:14:49 pm
      Odd, I’ve not seen hide nor hair of a rumor that there is.

      This is getting silly now. Just because  Henderson doesn't have any buyer for him, that doesn't mean that other actual top players dont have any buyers for them. As I have mentioned in my above post. But hey, I haven't seen any rumors for Messi too.  :lmao:
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6496: Dec 02, 2018 12:15:25 pm
      Odd, I’ve not seen hide nor hair of a rumor that there is.

      really

      Hazard has been constantly linked to Real Madrid. He's spoken about this himself: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1033635/Chelsea-Eden-Hazard-Real-Madrid-transfer-news-rumours-gossip

      Jorginho has only just signed to Chelsea, so obviously it would be daft to expect many transfer rumours in less than 6 months. But before that...

      Guardiola himself admitted he tried to sign Jorginho: https://www.talkaloadofbull.com/en/news/guardiola-it-wouldve-been-a-mistake-for-jorginho-to-join-man/15dfepfqwowu015xob1lvsqmuz
      Man Utd was rumoured to be interested too: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-utd-jorginho-transfer-chelsea-14910466
      And of course us: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-face-prospect-battling-premier-14628450

      Chelsea has just given Kanté a new contract on £290k a week: https://www.talkaloadofbull.com/en/news/kante-signs-new-record-290k-a-week-chelsea-deal/za9j7ihnxt7i14mwbqibg7ybg

      So obviously he won't be the subject of many rumours right now. But to deny that most top clubs would love to have him would be daft as well. As the link above about his renewal states: "His consistency and influence has seen a host of clubs show an interest in him, most notably Paris Saint-Germain"

      So there you go. Took me about 3 minutes to find this
      Gill95
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6497: Dec 02, 2018 12:18:36 pm
      really

      Hazard has been constantly linked to Real Madrid. He's spoken about this himself: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1033635/Chelsea-Eden-Hazard-Real-Madrid-transfer-news-rumours-gossip

      Jorginho has only just signed to Chelsea, so obviously it would be daft to expect many transfer rumours in less than 6 months. But before that...

      Guardiola himself admitted he tried to sign Jorginho: https://www.talkaloadofbull.com/en/news/guardiola-it-wouldve-been-a-mistake-for-jorginho-to-join-man/15dfepfqwowu015xob1lvsqmuz
      Man Utd was rumoured to be interested too: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-utd-jorginho-transfer-chelsea-14910466
      And of course us: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-face-prospect-battling-premier-14628450

      Chelsea has just given Kanté a new contract on £290k a week: https://www.talkaloadofbull.com/en/news/kante-signs-new-record-290k-a-week-chelsea-deal/za9j7ihnxt7i14mwbqibg7ybg

      So obviously he won't be the subject of many rumours right now. But to deny that most top clubs would love to have him would be daft as well. As the link above about his renewal states: "His consistency and influence has seen a host of clubs show an interest in him, most notably Paris Saint-Germain"

      So there you go. Took me about 3 minutes to find this


      F***ing hell, I was doing the same too. Was about to post the links. As you say took a single Google search for this.  :D
      FL Red
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6498: Dec 02, 2018 12:25:49 pm
      really

      Hazard has been constantly linked to Real Madrid. He's spoken about this himself: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1033635/Chelsea-Eden-Hazard-Real-Madrid-transfer-news-rumours-gossip

      Jorginho has only just signed to Chelsea, so obviously it would be daft to expect many transfer rumours in less than 6 months. But before that...

      Guardiola himself admitted he tried to sign Jorginho: https://www.talkaloadofbull.com/en/news/guardiola-it-wouldve-been-a-mistake-for-jorginho-to-join-man/15dfepfqwowu015xob1lvsqmuz
      Man Utd was rumoured to be interested too: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-utd-jorginho-transfer-chelsea-14910466
      And of course us: https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-face-prospect-battling-premier-14628450

      Chelsea has just given Kanté a new contract on £290k a week: https://www.talkaloadofbull.com/en/news/kante-signs-new-record-290k-a-week-chelsea-deal/za9j7ihnxt7i14mwbqibg7ybg

      So obviously he won't be the subject of many rumours right now. But to deny that most top clubs would love to have him would be daft as well. As the link above about his renewal states: "His consistency and influence has seen a host of clubs show an interest in him, most notably Paris Saint-Germain"

      So there you go. Took me about 3 minutes to find this

      Well there you go, my mind is certainly changed. We should obviously get rid of Henderson. But I guess as he’s not in demand (since there aren’t any teams that want him) that won’t be an easy task. Such a conundrum we find ourselves in. I guess that must be why Klopp continues to not only play him but allow him to still be captain.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6499: Dec 02, 2018 12:36:32 pm
      Well there you go, my mind is certainly changed. We should obviously get rid of Henderson. But I guess as he’s not in demand (since there aren’t any teams that want him) that won’t be an easy task. Such a conundrum we find ourselves in. I guess that must be why Klopp continues to not only play him but allow him to still be captain.

      I wasn't trying to change your mind on Henderson, though ;D only on Hazard, Kanté and Jorginho.

      As for Hendo, I guess I can quote his favourite artist in all the history of recorded music to list the clubs with a stated interest in him:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rywUS-ohqeE

      :D

      I am avoiding discussing him though. This whole debate has become so boring.

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