Jordan Henderson (Liverpool -> Al-Ettifaq (5 months) -> Ajax)

The way I look at it - as good as Henderson was that season, and I'm not taking anything away from him, there were still probably a couple of dozen top level midfielders in the world who still could have done that job. You take Suarez out of that team and replace him with any other striker at the time (even Messi & Ronaldo) and we aren't as good

That's fair enough mate, as I said, just different ways of looking at a team.

One thing I would say though, is that a lot of Suarez's goals came when teams were already beaten, so I think it bears thinking about that there were fewer really crucial goals, that broke a deadlock, or got us a scrappy 1 goal win.
He got a few, but there was a bit of the flat track bully about him, when we were racking up the goals, and of course, there's nothing wrong with that

I'd also say that Henderson is perhaps the most underrated midfielder (by the fans) in all the years I've supported the club.
Part of that is him taking over the captaincy, which was always going to be a thankless task, but part of it is also not appreciating just how good he really is.
We had one fella here saying that he never hit the ball with the outside of his foot because "he doesn't have it in his locker", an almost comically stupid statement.
A lot of people say his greatest strength is "his engine", but really, that's a small part of a much greater whole.

Luis was a freak in the nicest possible way I absolutely loved the guy his determination to win knew no bounds as we found out. Hendo is Hendo I am just delighted for him that he is picking up some rather nice silverware these days whilst were is Clint Dempsey.

The way I look at it - as good as Henderson was that season, and I'm not taking anything away from him, there were still probably a couple of dozen top level midfielders in the world who still could have done that job. You take Suarez out of that team and replace him with any other striker at the time (even Messi & Ronaldo) and we aren't as good

When I seen the earlier comments I was about to post precisely this. I get Swab’s comments about strikers getting the glory but there was virtually nobody else in the world doing what he did that season and I would agree with your comment about it being the best individual season from a Liverpool player (certainly that I have witnessed).

Some of the goals he scored were of course extraordinary.* The 4 he notched against Norwich of course sticks out - I remember his reaction to the 3rd where even he was in disbelief at what he was doing. But even outside of that, it’s easy to forget his contribution went far beyond just his goals. He was of course an exceptionally talented player and his partnership with Sturridge was one of the best I’ve seen. When he wasn’t scoring goals he was creating them through sheer genius and a bit of devilment (how many penalties and dangerous free kicks did he win for us?). Off the ball he was a regular Bobby Firmino as well, the guy never stopped. Oh and he loved a nutmeg.

Of course his time here was tarnished by his mad moments (and quite rightly so), meaning I don’t think he’ll ever get the plaudits he deserves or be considered amongst the elite PL strikers (which he certainly is).

*On the subject of his extraordinary goals, my personal favourite was the one against Newcastle where he controlled a 40 yard ping from Jose Enrique on his chest, took it round the keeper and passed it in to the net, seemingly all in one single motion. Go have a watch. Majestic.

When I seen the earlier comments I was about to post precisely this. I get Swab’s comments about strikers getting the glory but there was virtually nobody else in the world doing what he did that season and I would agree with your comment about it being the best individual season from a Liverpool player (certainly that I have witnessed).

Some of the goals he scored were of course extraordinary.* The 4 he notched against Norwich of course sticks out - I remember his reaction to the 3rd where even he was in disbelief at what he was doing. But even outside of that, it’s easy to forget his contribution went far beyond just his goals. He was of course an exceptionally talented player and his partnership with Sturridge was one of the best I’ve seen. When he wasn’t scoring goals he was creating them through sheer genius and a bit of devilment (how many penalties and dangerous free kicks did he win for us?). Off the ball he was a regular Bobby Firmino as well, the guy never stopped. Oh and he loved a nutmeg.

Of course his time here was tarnished by his mad moments (and quite rightly so), meaning I don’t think he’ll ever get the plaudits he deserves or be considered amongst the elite PL strikers (which he certainly is).

*On the subject of his extraordinary goals, my personal favourite was the one against Newcastle where he controlled a 40 yard ping from Jose Enrique on his chest, took it round the keeper and passed it in to the net, seemingly all in one single motion. Go have a watch. Majestic.

That Norwich game at Anfield was incredible. 3 goal of the season contenders from one single player in one single performance.

Worth remembering that he missed the first 8 games of that season too and still ended up with 30 odd goals - I think he still has the highest goals to game tally for any Premier League player in history off of the back of that year, around 0.95 goals per game. Absolutely phenomenal

When I seen the earlier comments I was about to post precisely this. I get Swab’s comments about strikers getting the glory but there was virtually nobody else in the world doing what he did that season and I would agree with your comment about it being the best individual season from a Liverpool player (certainly that I have witnessed).

Some of the goals he scored were of course extraordinary.* The 4 he notched against Norwich of course sticks out - I remember his reaction to the 3rd where even he was in disbelief at what he was doing. But even outside of that, it’s easy to forget his contribution went far beyond just his goals. He was of course an exceptionally talented player and his partnership with Sturridge was one of the best I’ve seen. When he wasn’t scoring goals he was creating them through sheer genius and a bit of devilment (how many penalties and dangerous free kicks did he win for us?). Off the ball he was a regular Bobby Firmino as well, the guy never stopped. Oh and he loved a nutmeg.

Of course his time here was tarnished by his mad moments (and quite rightly so), meaning I don’t think he’ll ever get the plaudits he deserves or be considered amongst the elite PL strikers (which he certainly is).

*On the subject of his extraordinary goals, my personal favourite was the one against Newcastle where he controlled a 40 yard ping from Jose Enrique on his chest, took it round the keeper and passed it in to the net, seemingly all in one single motion. Go have a watch. Majestic.

That Norwich game at Anfield was incredible. 3 goal of the season contenders from one single player in one single performance.

Worth remembering that he missed the first 8 games of that season too and still ended up with 30 odd goals - I think he still has the highest goals to game tally for any Premier League player in history off of the back of that year, around 0.95 goals per game. Absolutely phenomenal

Thing is lads, I'm not saying Suarez wasn't the best player at the club, at the time.
Of course he was, and remains one of the most talented players ever to pull on the shirt.

The point I make is only that arguably, Henderson was perhaps more important to the way the team functioned.

I have absolutely no problems if others think Suarez was more important.

As I said before, it depends entirely on how you view a team, and its various cogs.

Thing is lads, I'm not saying Suarez wasn't the best player at the club, at the time.
Of course he was, and remains one of the most talented players ever to pull on the shirt.

The point I make is only that arguably, Henderson was perhaps more important to the way the team functioned.

I have absolutely no problems if others think Suarez was more important.

As I said before, it depends entirely on how you view a team, and its various cogs.

Oh I weren't trying to argue my point more with that post btw mate, I'd just descended into a full Suarez wankathon

Bit off topic for the Henderson thread of course 

Oh I weren't trying to argue my point more with that post btw mate, I'd just descended into a full Suarez wankathon

Bit off topic for the Henderson thread of course 

 

It's all good mate.

Back on topic, I think it goes unnoticed how much control he gives us in midfield.

It's all good mate.

Back on topic, I think it goes unnoticed how much control he gives us in midfield.

Yeah definitely. Heard a lot about our midfield not being "creative enough" lately but I think what we've really been lacking in the last few games is the physical dominance in the center of the park & Henderson is a massive part of that. We've been been bullied the last 3 or so matches and it's no surprise that Henderson has been absent for all of those

Be very glad to see him back hopefully for next week's match in Europe at home to A.Madrid as I think we'll really need him sorting out our Midfield, shame we won't see him tomorrow, but I'd sooner have him fresh for Wednesday. Hurry up back Jordan, we've missed you big time.

@JamesPearceLFC
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6m
Jordan Henderson back in full training at Melwood tomorrow. #LFC

Yeah definitely. Heard a lot about our midfield not being "creative enough" lately but I think what we've really been lacking in the last few games is the physical dominance in the center of the park & Henderson is a massive part of that. We've been been bullied the last 3 or so matches and it's no surprise that Henderson has been absent for all of those

That tired old sh*te gets on my nerves to be honest.
It's like people don't even watch how we play under Klopp.

1 central DM and 2 wider DM's is the way to look at it, with FB's taking on the attacking roles, as can be seen by the amount of assists they get.
If we've pushed a team right back, one MF will join in the attack, getting into the box.
It gives us 5/6 attackers, and 4/5 defenders, but because we play so high those MF defenders job is also to win the ball back as high as possible.
Notice how we always try to work the ball wide, which opens space for the 3 forwards who at this stage will be quite narrow.
The MF will usually be found guarding the space behind the FB's.
The DM will push into the centre space, when the opposition have been dragged wide.
The 2 supporting MF are there to recycle and reset.

Henderson has caught the eye of more people, because he is the one who is pushing into the box, rather than sitting deep as he did when DM.
It's not an accident; it's all planned, and is our default system.
We change the system a lot during matches, but we always revert back to the default.

That tired old sh*te gets on my nerves to be honest.
It's like people don't even watch how we play under Klopp.

1 central DM and 2 wider DM's is the way to look at it, with FB's taking on the attacking roles, as can be seen by the amount of assists they get.
If we've pushed a team right back, one MF will join in the attack, getting into the box.
It gives us 5/6 attackers, and 4/5 defenders, but because we play so high those MF defenders job is also to win the ball back as high as possible.
Notice how we always try to work the ball wide, which opens space for the 3 forwards who at this stage will be quite narrow.
The MF will usually be found guarding the space behind the FB's.
The DM will push into the centre space, when the opposition have been dragged wide.
The 2 supporting MF are there to recycle and reset.

Henderson has caught the eye of more people, because he is the one who is pushing into the box, rather than sitting deep as he did when DM.
It's not an accident; it's all planned, and is our default system.
We change the system a lot during matches, but we always revert back to the default.

We all know how we play, but block the FB's and we are neutered, imagine if we also had an attack line through midfield, through the centre, how would a team defend against both vectors?

That tired old sh*te gets on my nerves to be honest.
It's like people don't even watch how we play under Klopp.

1 central DM and 2 wider DM's is the way to look at it, with FB's taking on the attacking roles, as can be seen by the amount of assists they get.
If we've pushed a team right back, one MF will join in the attack, getting into the box.
It gives us 5/6 attackers, and 4/5 defenders, but because we play so high those MF defenders job is also to win the ball back as high as possible.
Notice how we always try to work the ball wide, which opens space for the 3 forwards who at this stage will be quite narrow.
The MF will usually be found guarding the space behind the FB's.
The DM will push into the centre space, when the opposition have been dragged wide.
The 2 supporting MF are there to recycle and reset.

Henderson has caught the eye of more people, because he is the one who is pushing into the box, rather than sitting deep as he did when DM.
It's not an accident; it's all planned, and is our default system.
We change the system a lot during matches, but we always revert back to the default.

Think we know how we play and here is a thought maybe opposition  may also know so when are FBS do not get the space and they let us have more possession in the middle we need someone who can create more than the 3 who presumably will start Wednesday

we have played this way for over two seasons if the opposition have only sussed us out that's pretty poor. Its still 11 V 11 when people look for negatives in the situation we are in I find it weird. Similarly those who moan about Mo 70 goals in 100 games  how the F**k can you find anything negative to say about him unless you go looking for it. These lads are carrying the weight of history on their backs 30 years of nearly men and Jordan will be hailed as a legend at the end of this season and rightly so

we have played this way for over two seasons if the opposition have only sussed us out that's pretty poor. Its still 11 V 11 when people look for negatives in the situation we are in I find it weird. Similarly those who moan about Mo 70 goals in 100 games  how the f**k can you find anything negative to say about him unless you go looking for it. These lads are carrying the weight of history on their backs 30 years of nearly men and Jordan will be hailed as a legend at the end of this season and rightly so

If your having a dig pal just reply to my post. No one especially me has said anything about opposition just sussing us out but if you dont think having counterplans or having players with differing skill sets cant be used in different games and situations I find that weird and it's not being negative just an opinion about a game where we are 1 down at HT

Think we know how we play and here is a thought maybe opposition  may also know so when are FBS do not get the space and they let us have more possession in the middle we need someone who can create more than the 3 who presumably will start Wednesday

Do you?
See, we had 97 points and a European Cup last season.

This season, we are 25 points ahead, and need 3 wins to clinch the league title.

That suggests to me, that what we do, works, regardless of what anyone thinks, the stats, points etc don't lie.

No one especially me has said anything about opposition just sussing us out but if you dont think having counterplans or having players with differing skill sets cant be used in different games and situations I find that weird and it's not being negative just an opinion about a game where we are 1 down at HT

We do use different players in different games.

We do it all the time.

So far, the different players in different games, haven't delivered consistently.

We also use different formations, strategies and set pieces, as well as different ways of pressing, closing off passing lanes, and outnumbering the opposition in different area's.

We do lots of different things, and we do them very well, when the players are in good form.

Right now, we are having the blip that every team has, every season.
It happens, we deal with it and go again.

Do you?
See, we had 97 points and a European Cup last season.

This season, we are 25 points ahead, and need 3 wins to clinch the league title.

That suggests to me, that what we do, works, regardless of what anyone thinks, the stats, points etc don't lie.

We do use different players in different games.

We do it all the time.

So far, the different players in different games, haven't delivered consistently.

We also use different formations, strategies and set pieces, as well as different ways of pressing, closing off passing lanes, and outnumbering the opposition in different area's.

We do lots of different things, and we do them very well, when the players are in good form.

Right now, we are having the blip that every team has, every season.
It happens, we deal with it and go again.

Fair enough . In your opinion then if it was a one off game to win the league or a cup who would you go with using current squad presuming all fit in Midfield ie your best Midfield ?

In your opinion then if it was a one off game to win the league or a cup who would you go with using current squad presuming all fit in Midfield ie your best Midfield ?

I know this wasn't directed at me. But IMO, Hendo, Gini and Keita. Believe they were the 3 that completely dominated the middle of the park when we hammered Leicester.

I know this wasn't directed at me. But IMO, Hendo, Gini and Keita. Believe they were the 3 that completely dominated the middle of the park when we hammered Leicester.

Yep I would agree with that and was kind of my point with Keita being more creative and carrying the ball breaking the lines which we are going to need Wednesday thought he also looked like he was beginning to form a nice link up job with Mo

Fair enough . In your opinion then if it was a one off game to win the league or a cup who would you go with using current squad presuming all fit in Midfield ie your best Midfield ?

Fabinho, Gini, Henderson.

It works, as all the evidence shows.

I'm not going to get worked up about a loss of form, or fatigue or whatever; these lads have done the business.

I know this wasn't directed at me. But IMO, Hendo, Gini and Keita. Believe they were the 3 that completely dominated the middle of the park when we hammered Leicester.

If we're talking about a hypothetical situation where the 3 named are all on top form, and sharp/fit, then it's a hard one to argue with.

I'm going to stick with tried and tested though, on the grounds that we haven't yet seen Keita in top form for a decent run of games, so his contribution can't really be quantified.

I like Keita, I think he could be a wonderful player for us, but as yet, he hasn't done it.
He's shown his qualities, but he's yet to do it consistently. Not his fault, the lad's had issues.

Whichever way I look at it though, Henderson and Gini are in.

If we're talking about a hypothetical situation where the 3 named are all on top form, and sharp/fit, then it's a hard one to argue with.

I'm going to stick with tried and tested though, on the grounds that we haven't yet seen Keita in top form for a decent run of games, so his contribution can't really be quantified.

I like Keita, I think he could be a wonderful player for us, but as yet, he hasn't done it.

Whichever way I look at it though, Henderson and Gini are in.

Who would you go with out of Fabinho and Keita based on this season alone? Last season Fabinho was the better of the 2 but in terms of performances as a whole this season, I'd say Keita. He was hitting some really good form and getting a good link up going with Mo until the usual scenario with an injury hit him again, similar to last season actually.

It's a tricky one because whilst Hendo and Gini are virtually nailed on most games unless injured, it's a battle between Fab, Keita and Ox with all 3 having their good moments, their injuries and their inconsistencies. Then of course there is Milly too, who for a large part was part of the favoured 3 for the bigger games with Hendo and Gini.

It would be interesting to see how it went if they were all injury free at the same time and all in top form, cases can be made for all of them to be in there.

It might just be the way I see it, but to me it seems as though there is more pressure around Keita than there is Fab, maybe due to the large expectation from waiting a season for him to actually arrive.

Fabinho, Gini, Henderson.

It works, as all the evidence shows.

I'm not going to get worked up about a loss of form, or fatigue or whatever; these lads have done the business.

If we're talking about a hypothetical situation where the 3 named are all on top form, and sharp/fit, then it's a hard one to argue with.

I'm going to stick with tried and tested though, on the grounds that we haven't yet seen Keita in top form for a decent run of games, so his contribution can't really be quantified.

I like Keita, I think he could be a wonderful player for us, but as yet, he hasn't done it.
He's shown his qualities, but he's yet to do it consistently. Not his fault, the lad's had issues.

Whichever way I look at it though, Henderson and Gini are in.

Just think we looked more solid with Jordan as 6 fabinho whether it's fitness doesnt seem to be as mobile or cover the ground has  little pace and gets caught out of position and even the goal today he has left Billing and then him and Milner go to the same player . Be interesting to see what he goes with

Who would you go with out of Fabinho and Keita based on this season alone? Last season Fabinho was the better of the 2 but in terms of performances as a whole this season, I'd say Keita. He was hitting some really good form and getting a good link up going with Mo until the usual scenario with an injury hit him again, similar to last season actually.

It's a tricky one because whilst Hendo and Gini are virtually nailed on most games unless injured, it's a battle between Fab, Keita and Ox with all 3 having their good moments, their injuries and their inconsistencies. Then of course there is Milly too, who for a large part was part of the favoured 3 for the bigger games with Hendo and Gini.

It would be interesting to see how it went if they were all injury free at the same time and all in top form, cases can be made for all of them to be in there.

It might just be the way I see it, but to me it seems as though there is more pressure around Keita than there is Fab, maybe due to the large expectation from waiting a season for him to actually arrive.

The thing is, both are players who play high risk/high reward football.

At the moment, it's not coming off for either of them, for one reason or another.

I have to reckon that Fabinho is closer to playing himself into form than Keita simply by virtue of having more game time, so I'd go with Fabinho.

I think there's a case to be made for Keita coming in for Gini, if Keita was in better form, but as things stand Keita is on the bench for me.
Maybe coming on last 20 to see if he can open up tiring defenses.

For me, Ox is a different type of player; he's a battering ram, he'll shoot, try things, play loose, loads of energy, pressing etc
My preference would be Keita first, Ox second in terms of what they contribute.

Interestingly, Ox is spending quite a bit of time in a deeper position these days.
He's being Klopp'd.