Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Brighton [Premier League] Sun 31st Mar @ 2:00 pm
      Anfield

      Today is the 29th of March and on this date LFC's match record is P24 W11 D6 L7

      Jordan Henderson (Liverpool -> Al-Ettifaq (5 months) -> Ajax)

      Read 720842 times
      0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6095: Nov 05, 2018 09:27:44 pm
      Of course it isn't true, but it is my opinion that I feel Fabinho would be the better option because of the traits he has over Hendo, just like many assumed Alisson would be the better option over Karius, just like many assumed Karius to be the better option over Migs, just like some feel Sturridge would be the better option over Firmino, or Robertson over Moreno etc. It's just how 99.9% of people view things. From sports to films, to art and music etc, it's opinions, something you seem to find difficult in accepting.

      And going back to the Leicester game where Hendo had a bad game, I would say the same thing. Had Fabinho played, maybe he would have made a difference and we win 5-0, or maybe not and we lose or draw.

      Nah, what I have difficulty accepting is your insistence on dressing up your opinion as fact, in this instance saying definitively that Fabinho has traits that Henderson doesn't which make him a better option, like your insistence that Henderson lacks composure, when the opposite appears to be the case.

      I notice you have recently started speaking about "technical players" and trying to say that Henderson is not a "technical" player, and not only is this completely untrue, it also makes no sense. All players at this level are "technical" and highly proficient.
      It's basically a lazy, roundabout way of slating a player.

      What it boils down to is that you got all excited about Fabinho, based on a few meaningless pre-season games, and were convinced Henderson was going to be dropped in favour of him.
      Clearly this isn't the case.
      I'm becoming more and more convinced that the people who bang this particular drum are bandwagon jumpers who've seen it on social media and climbed on board.
      I also have no idea why you ignore what Klopp says about both players, but you do.

      Like I keep saying, when I don't rate a player but the manager does, I make it my business to try and work out why.
      I don't arrogantly hide behind "opinion" or try to suggest that a guy who's forgotten more about football than I'll ever know is wrong and I'm right.
      I try to learn, something that is missing amongst a lot of fans these days.
      PurpleMonkey
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,000 posts | 1991 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6096: Nov 05, 2018 10:02:46 pm
      Nah, what I have difficulty accepting is your insistence on dressing up your opinion as fact, in this instance saying definitively that Fabinho has traits that Henderson doesn't which make him a better option, like your insistence that Henderson lacks composure, when the opposite appears to be the case.

      I notice you have recently started speaking about "technical players" and trying to say that Henderson is not a "technical" player, and not only is this completely untrue, it also makes no sense. All players at this level are "technical" and highly proficient.
      It's basically a lazy, roundabout way of slating a player.

      With you mindset, one could say the same about you dressing your opinion as fact over Henderson, right?

      Every player have a level of technical ability, some are not as highly proficient as others(yes, even at the highest level), but what they lack in the technical department, they gain in others.

      Whether you think Hendo is on the same or higher level as the likes of Wijnaldum, Ketia or Fabinho is your own opinion, but from what I have seen, I would disagree. I would put Hendo in the industrial bracket where the emphasis is more focused on his strengths, something similar to Kante.

      What it boils down to is that you got all excited about Fabinho, based on a few meaningless pre-season games, and were convinced Henderson was going to be dropped in favour of him.
      Clearly this isn't the case.
      I'm becoming more and more convinced that the people who bang this particular drum are bandwagon jumpers who've seen it on social media and climbed on board.
      I also have no idea why you ignore what Klopp says about both players, but you do.

      I wasn't too sure when we signed Fabinho, and even asked around on forums, but I decided to go back and re-watch full matches of Monaco to see what type of player he was, and over a good dozen matches, I understood what type of player he was, and felt he was something we have missed for so many season, so yeah, I got excited, but I got excited based on the matches I saw in competitive matches(as I mentioned many times) and friendlies (for us).

      Also, have you considered that maybe some actually sit down, watch the game and then form an opinion instead of forming an opinion via social media comments?

      Like I keep saying, when I don't rate a player but the manager does, I make it my business to try and work out why.
      I don't arrogantly hide behind "opinion" or try to suggest that a guy who's forgotten more about football than I'll ever know is wrong and I'm right.
      I try to learn, something that is missing amongst a lot of fans these days.

      I see strengths and weaknesses of every player (yes, even Fabinho) as you can see throughout my posts, so how is that hiding behind anything?
      Scotia
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 8,966 posts | 3048 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6097: Nov 05, 2018 10:06:09 pm
      Christ this lad can’t buy a break on here.

      The midfield have been mediocre with / without him this season and were pretty average on Saturday in particular.....

      All down to him 🤣🤣

      Which is really a credit to his influence when you think about it 🙄
      « Last Edit: Nov 05, 2018 10:14:07 pm by Scotia »
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6098: Nov 05, 2018 10:17:10 pm
      With you mindset, one could say the same about you dressing your opinion as fact over Henderson, right?

      Every player have a level of technical ability, some are not as highly proficient as others(yes, even at the highest level), but what they lack in the technical department, they gain in others.

      Whether you think Hendo is on the same or higher level as the likes of Wijnaldum, Ketia or Fabinho is your own opinion, but from what I have seen, I would disagree. I would put Hendo in the industrial bracket where the emphasis is more focused on his strengths, something similar to Kante.

      Nope, not at all.
      I base my opinion of Henderson on solid evidence.
      You've been presented with these stats time and time again, but you either ignore them, or try to muddy the waters, a classic example being "He never passes forwards", and when shown that he does, it becomes "yes, but it's the type of forward passes"
      It's disingenuous, to say the least.

      What you don't seem to understand, is that at the top level, there is very little between any of these players in terms of ability, technical or otherwise.
      What they do, is sacrifice expression in favour of doing the job they've been told to do.
      As I said, it appears to be just another way of attacking the player.
      Lucas for example is a wonderfully technical player, but he put that aside to do the job he was asked to do.

      Quote
      I wasn't too sure when we signed Fabinho, and even asked around on forums, but I decided to go back and re-watch full matches of Monaco to see what type of player he was, and over a good dozen matches, I understood what type of player he was, and felt he was something we have missed for so many season, so yeah, I got excited, but I got excited based on the matches I saw in competitive matches(as I mentioned many times) and friendlies (for us).

      Also, have you considered that maybe some actually sit down, watch the game and then form an opinion instead of forming an opinion via social media comments?

      nah, you kept banging on about how good he looked in pre-season, and only later started saying you'd watched matches in the French league, so I'm not buying that for a second.

      Besides which, looking good in the French league is no guarantee that he'll be successful in the prem, and pre-season matches are no way to judge a player.
      I remember Markovich looking good in pre-season.

      Quote
      I see strengths and weaknesses of every player (yes, even Fabinho) as you can see throughout my posts, so how is that hiding behind anything?

      You've done it constantly in this discussion, even trying that tired old nonsense about "being allowed to have an opinion".

      Here's the thing, everyone can have an opinion, but that doesn't mean other people have to value it, and when you constantly slate a player that Klopp clearly values, instead of trying to understand why Klopp values him, you retreat behind "well, that's my opinion" as if your opinion equals that of our manager.
      It doesn't.
      PurpleMonkey
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,000 posts | 1991 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6099: Nov 05, 2018 11:08:30 pm
      Nope, not at all.
      I base my opinion of Henderson on solid evidence.
      You've been presented with these stats time and time again, but you either ignore them, or try to muddy the waters, a classic example being "He never passes forwards", and when shown that he does, it becomes "yes, but it's the type of forward passes"
      It's disingenuous, to say the least.

      There are a lot of stats that are very iffy because we only have access to the basics, and I am sure even what the professionals uses they need to be understood fully by watching matches, so I don't use the stats available to us as pure facts, more pitch of the salt, and have always felt this way.

      And you do realise when people say Hendo doesn't pass forward, they don't literally mean it, right? They are just frustrated with his distribution.

      What you don't seem to understand, is that at the top level, there is very little between any of these players in terms of ability, technical or otherwise.
      What they do, is sacrifice expression in favour of doing the job they've been told to do.
      As I said, it appears to be just another way of attacking the player.
      Lucas for example is a wonderfully technical player, but he put that aside to do the job he was asked to do.

      So are you saying Hendo could play like Modric if Klopp asked him to? Are you saying Salah and Mane could dribble like Hazard or Isco? Are you saying Lukaku could play like Messi, or Dier like X.Alonso?

      nah, you kept banging on about how good he looked in pre-season, and only later started saying you'd watched matches in the French league, so I'm not buying that for a second.

      Besides which, looking good in the French league is no guarantee that he'll be successful in the prem, and pre-season matches are no way to judge a player.
      I remember Markovich looking good in pre-season.

      Oh, I remember getting excited for him during pre-season, and even before. Maybe I got so excited that I decided to watch the Monaco matches, or maybe it was before and during pre-season? (I am actually pretty sure I watched games after he signed for us). Whatever the case, you seem to have a better memory than me, and either way, yes, I was excited we finally signed a proper #6.

      Just like there is no guarantee of a PL, La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga player succeeding in a PL club.

      You've done it constantly in this discussion, even trying that tired old nonsense about "being allowed to have an opinion".

      Here's the thing, everyone can have an opinion, but that doesn't mean other people have to value it, and when you constantly slate a player that Klopp clearly values, instead of trying to understand why Klopp values him, you retreat behind "well, that's my opinion" as if your opinion equals that of our manager.
      It doesn't.

      Well, in all honestly, it feels as if we can't have an opinion that disagrees with Klopp under your watch because Klopp is always 100% right in your book. And it comes across in your mindset that you can not criticise something you are not a professional at. Not something I agree with tbh.

      And no, I don't feel my opinion equals or surpasses that of our manager (I am sure it's the same for others), I just see it as an opinion and something that we can debate in, just like I would when talking about films, music or sports etc.
      « Last Edit: Nov 06, 2018 12:02:52 am by PurpleMonkey »
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6100: Nov 06, 2018 12:04:54 am
      There are a lot of stats are very iffy because we only have access to the basics, and I am sure even what the professionals uses they need to be understood fully by watching matches, so I don't use the stats available to us as pure facts, more pitch of the salt, and have always felt this way.

      And you do realise when people say Hendo doesn't pass forward, they don't literally mean it, right?

      So are you saying Hendo could play like Modric if Klopp asked him to? Are you saying Salah and Mane could dribble like Hazard or Isco? Are you saying Lukaku could play like Messi, or Dier like X.Alonso?

      Oh, I remember getting excited for him during pre-season, and even before. Maybe I got so excited that I decided to watch the Monaco matches, or maybe it was before and during pre-season? (I am actually pretty sure I watched games after he signed for us). Whatever the case, you seem to have a better memory than me, and either way, yes, I was excited we finally signed a proper #6.

      Just like there is no guarantee of a PL, La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga player succeeding in a PL club.

      Well, in all honestly, it feels as if we can't have an opinion that disagrees with Klopp under your watch because Klopp is always 100% right in your book. And it comes across in your mindset that you can not criticise something you are not a professional at. Not something I agree with tbh.

      And no, I don't feel my opinion equals or surpasses that of our manager (I am sure it's the same for others), I just see it as an opinion and something that we can debate in, just like I would when talking about films, music or sports etc.

      And here we go again, with the silliness of the internet where people misquote, willfully misinterpret and generally try to twist whatever doesn't suit their agenda.

      Bottom line; you spent months posting about how Fabinho was going to transform our midfield, Henderson was going to be consigned to a bit part, and generally talking nonsense about a player who hadn't played for us, and then had only a handful of games being the best thing since sliced bread.
      All this mind, while we have one of the best players in that position in the country.
      It's "anyone but Henderson" simply because you either cannot see or do not value what he does, and no it's not about debating, it's about you thinking you know more than some of the top managers around, and then hiding behind "it's my opinion".
      That's cool, have your opinion, but don't expect it to be valued when it's so far wide of the mark.

      Anyway, I'll look forwards to "Red Star are brilliant, and Fabinho outplayed them all by himself" or whatever excuse comes along if he has a bad game; the one on the other thread is a classic. Apparently, Fabinho was bad because Milner and Wijnaldum didn't do their jobs.
      It's F***ing laughable, it really is.
      PurpleMonkey
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,000 posts | 1991 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6101: Nov 06, 2018 12:35:44 am
      Bottom line; you spent months posting about how Fabinho was going to transform our midfield, Henderson was going to be consigned to a bit part, and generally talking nonsense about a player who hadn't played for us, and then had only a handful of games being the best thing since sliced bread.

      Never have I said he was gonna be consigned to a bit part, and if I did, please show me where, please.

      And here we go again, with the silliness of the internet where people misquote, willfully misinterpret and generally try to twist whatever doesn't suit their agenda.

      The irony...

      It's "anyone but Henderson" simply because you either cannot see or do not value what he does, and no it's not about debating, it's about you thinking you know more than some of the top managers around, and then hiding behind "it's my opinion".
      That's cool, have your opinion, but don't expect it to be valued when it's so far wide of the mark.

      Okay, so basically, everyone who criticised or disagreed with Klopp playing  Moreno, Karius, Migs, Lovren, Can, TAA, Wijnaldum, Milner etc know more than Klopp or any professional manager.....Got it.

      Anyway, I'll look forwards to "Red Star are brilliant, and Fabinho outplayed them all by himself" or whatever excuse comes along if he has a bad game; the one on the other thread is a classic. Apparently, Fabinho was bad because Milner and Wijnaldum didn't do their jobs.
      It's f**king laughable, it really is.

      I look forward to compliments for Fabinho (if he plays) tomorrow, that usually means we won the game, and when we do win with Fabinho, I will be sure to mention his world class status and how he single handedly won us the game.

      And people saying Fabinho was bad because Milner and Wijnaldum didn't do their jobs has just as much weight as someone saying a player playing poor wasn't actually really poor because he was under the instructions of the manager ;)
      Ribapuru
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 10,843 posts | 1371 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6102: Nov 06, 2018 08:20:01 am
      If Fabinho plays average today and Salah scores a hatrick, I'll be giving Fabinho  MOTM. He's sitting in for Henderson right? Gotta come with the perks!
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6103: Nov 06, 2018 11:47:21 am
      Never have I said he was gonna be consigned to a bit part, and if I did, please show me where, please.

      The irony...

      Okay, so basically, everyone who criticised or disagreed with Klopp playing  Moreno, Karius, Migs, Lovren, Can, TAA, Wijnaldum, Milner etc know more than Klopp or any professional manager.....Got it.

      I look forward to compliments for Fabinho (if he plays) tomorrow, that usually means we won the game, and when we do win with Fabinho, I will be sure to mention his world class status and how he single handedly won us the game.

      And people saying Fabinho was bad because Milner and Wijnaldum didn't do their jobs has just as much weight as someone saying a player playing poor wasn't actually really poor because he was under the instructions of the manager ;)

      Again, trying to twist everything.
      Pretty sad really, but that's the internet for you.

      8-10 games a week you reckon you watch?
      Well, either that's a lie or you don't know what you're seeing, same as with your sudden fascination with a "double pivot" that we don't actually play.
      It's just something you read somewhere and thought it applied to us (it doesn't).

      All players play to managers instructions, if they don't, they don't get picked.
      That's a basic rule of football.
      I love the people who think the players just go out and do their own thing, it's so far wide of the mark, it's actually funny.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 20,172 posts | 4401 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6104: Nov 06, 2018 12:08:17 pm


      All players play to managers instructions, if they don't, they don't get picked.
      That's a basic rule of football.
      I love the people who think the players just go out and do their own thing, it's so far wide of the mark, it's actually funny.

      Players play to the managers formation and tactics, but I doubt even Mourinho would insist on his players expressing how they play within that system.

      Do you think Klopp asks Henderson to play tip tap football with his CB’s?

      Henderson barely ever dribbles the ball forward yet Fab seems quite keen!

      When Milner was playing fullback do you think he asked him to keep cutting back in his right foot before crossing?



      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6105: Nov 06, 2018 12:12:12 pm
      Players play to the managers formation and tactics, but I doubt even Mourinho would insist on his players expressing how they play within that system.

      Do you think Klopp asks Henderson to play tip tap football with his CB’s?

      Henderson barely ever dribbles the ball forward yet Fab seems quite keen!

      When Milner was playing fullback do you think he asked him to keep cutting back in his right foot before crossing?

      Yes, it allows the front 3 to reset, along with the FB's and other midfielders.
      If you don't know something this basic, I really can't be arsed.
      waltonl4
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 37,585 posts | 7139 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6106: Nov 06, 2018 01:02:01 pm
      Fabhino and composure are not two words that go together at the moment and I bet Henderson would have been first name on tonights team sheet had he been fit.
      Anyone still barking on about Fabhino need to take the Rose coloured glasses off he stinks at present his confidence is shot clearly there is a player in there but he needs to bring that on to the pitch tonight is a great chance to do this
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6107: Nov 06, 2018 01:08:20 pm
      Fabhino and composure are not two words that go together at the moment and I bet Henderson would have been first name on tonights team sheet had he been fit.
      Anyone still barking on about Fabhino need to take the Rose coloured glasses off he stinks at present his confidence is shot clearly there is a player in there but he needs to bring that on to the pitch tonight is a great chance to do this

      A few snippets from Fabinho in the linked article.
      If his English isn't great yet, it would probably hinder him a bit.
      https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/fabinho-identifies-issue-liverpool-team-13541827
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 20,172 posts | 4401 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6108: Nov 06, 2018 01:57:50 pm
      Yes, it allows the front 3 to reset, along with the FB's and other midfielders.
      If you don't know something this basic, I really can't be arsed.

      Rubbish and you know it, Gini when he plays there or Fab and neither did Can.
      Players express themselves in their own style.
      Klopp doesn’t micro manage every aspect of their game, next you will be saying he chooses the boots for them as well.

      You come across as someone who has read a few blogs and articles of football without ever having played the game at any decent level.

      Hence your dogmatic and frankly ridiculous views like our primary source of attack is through the fullbacks. Guess what every attacking team uses their full backs to create width. We are not unique in that aspect despite your constant ramblings!

      Ribapuru
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 10,843 posts | 1371 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6109: Nov 06, 2018 02:07:22 pm
      Yes, it allows the front 3 to reset, along with the FB's and other midfielders.
      If you don't know something this basic, I really can't be arsed.
      I don't understand what you mean about front 3 resetting. They don't drop deep all that often, additionally full backs often only go forward after an attack, that doesn't generally involve Henderson. Henderson is like a defender sitting in the DM position, Gini is more like a proper DM. I'm not sure what Klopp is telling Henderson, but I don't think he is telling him to do trivial things... That's just what he tolerates because he needs the defensive attributes he provides.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 12,483 posts | 3286 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6110: Nov 06, 2018 02:07:29 pm
      For all the “experts” a quick question

      Why does Klopp pick Henderson anytime he is fit for the big games against the top opposition? Henderson always comes in for the City/Utd/Chelsea game when he is fit

      Why does Klopp have him as the club captain , why was he offered a big new contract

      It seems to me lots of people are saying lots and lots of stuff about Henderson and all negative yet the manager seems to disagree with the “experts” .

      So is Klopp wrong or are the “experts” wrong ?
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6111: Nov 06, 2018 02:09:30 pm
      Rubbish and you know it, Gini when he plays there or Fab and neither did Can.
      Players express themselves in their own style.
      Klopp doesn’t micro manage every aspect of their game, next you will be saying he chooses the boots for them as well.

      You come across as someone who has read a few blogs and articles of football without ever having played the game at any decent level.

      Hence your dogmatic and frankly ridiculous views like our primary source of attack is through the fullbacks. Guess what every attacking team uses their full backs to create width. We are not unique in that aspect despite your constant ramblings!

       :lmao:

      Oh dear, you really are naive aren't you.

      Rafa used to tell players where to stand to the inch.
      Gerrard commented on it many times, crediting Rafa with vastly improving his knowledge of tactics and positioning, not to mention extending his career, due to following Rafa's advice and instructions.
      It's what coaches do in professional football.

      But you carry on in your little fantasy where players rock up to a match and do their own thing.

      Clueless, absolutely clueless.   :roll:

      Some of you lads would argue black is white just so you could condemn our club captain, and one of Klopp's favourite players, and all because you think it looks cool on the internet.
      Sad, really.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 20,172 posts | 4401 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6112: Nov 06, 2018 02:14:52 pm
      For all the “experts” a quick question

      Why does Klopp pick Henderson anytime he is fit for the big games against the top opposition? Henderson always comes in for the City/Utd/Chelsea game when he is fit

      Why does Klopp have him as the club captain , why was he offered a big new contract

      It seems to me lots of people are saying lots and lots of stuff about Henderson and all negative yet the manager seems to disagree with the “experts” .

      So is Klopp wrong or are the “experts” wrong ?

      You tell us as the expert on Klopp tell us why he kept picking Mignolet and Moreno?

      PurpleMonkey
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,000 posts | 1991 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6113: Nov 06, 2018 02:16:43 pm
      8-10 games a week you reckon you watch?
      Well, either that's a lie or you don't know what you're seeing, same as with your sudden fascination with a "double pivot" that we don't actually play.

      Well, 3-4 PL matches, 4 CL, 1 Europa League, 1 Serie A and 1-2 La Liga is what's usually available to me :)

      https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/26/Fixtures/England-Liverpool

      Look at the heat maps (you don't even need to look at that if you watch our games), look at what Klopp said, and watch our games, then you will see a difference when we go from double pivot to 3 midfielders.

      All players play to managers instructions, if they don't, they don't get picked.
      That's a basic rule of football.

      Of course, but my point was more aimed at when Hendo played bad , I recall a couple of posters saying he didn't have a bad game and that it was more down to him playing to the managers instructions ;)
      Ribapuru
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 10,843 posts | 1371 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6114: Nov 06, 2018 02:17:02 pm
      For all the “experts” a quick question

      Why does Klopp pick Henderson anytime he is fit for the big games against the top opposition? Henderson always comes in for the City/Utd/Chelsea game when he is fit

      Why does Klopp have him as the club captain , why was he offered a big new contract

      It seems to me lots of people are saying lots and lots of stuff about Henderson and all negative yet the manager seems to disagree with the “experts” .

      So is Klopp wrong or are the “experts” wrong ?
      not being funny, but if Mignolet was captain, right now he'd be captain on the bench. What I'm saying is I don't think Klopp cares so much about the armband.. he wants a good 11 out there. Henderson gets picked because he's a safe option... It's like pepperoni pizza, if you don't know what pizza everyone likes pepperoni is usually a safe option.. but some people actually prefer chicken supreme but don't like mexican and vise versa.. they both tolerate pepperoni. Henderson's style is boring but it can be adapted into most systems with minimal risk. The problem is he's only been in this side so long because a past lack of investment. We invested well recently, strikers, defenders, midfielders and goalkeepers... but the DM Fabinho hasn't quite fit in yet. Even if Fabinho becomes brilliant, there's so many games this season Hendi is still needed because we'll rotate. We would need to sign another good midfielder before he can be dropped to the bench. I'm a Hendo critic and even I'm not going to say we won't need him. Like I also said, Hendo might not be exciting but he's the pepperoni pizza here.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 20,172 posts | 4401 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6115: Nov 06, 2018 02:18:06 pm
      :lmao:

      Oh dear, you really are naive aren't you.

      Rafa used to tell players where to stand to the inch.
      Gerrard commented on it many times, crediting Rafa with vastly improving his knowledge of tactics and positioning, not to mention extending his career, due to following Rafa's advice and instructions.
      It's what coaches do in professional football.

      But you carry on in your little fantasy where players rock up to a match and do their own thing.

      Clueless, absolutely clueless.   :roll:

      Some of you lads would argue black is white just so you could condemn our club captain, and one of Klopp's favourite players, and all because you think it looks cool on the internet.
      Sad, really.

      Only one arguing here is yourself who thinks Klopp controls which foot the players put on the pitch first.

      PurpleMonkey
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,000 posts | 1991 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6116: Nov 06, 2018 02:27:53 pm
      For all the “experts” a quick question

      Why does Klopp pick Henderson anytime he is fit for the big games against the top opposition? Henderson always comes in for the City/Utd/Chelsea game when he is fit

      Why does Klopp have him as the club captain , why was he offered a big new contract

      It seems to me lots of people are saying lots and lots of stuff about Henderson and all negative yet the manager seems to disagree with the “experts” .

      So is Klopp wrong or are the “experts” wrong ?

      Because he, along with Milner and Wijnaldum are perfect players for us to press/counter press, because he is very good at at harrying, because he plays long balls often, because he is very good at defending against the counter attack.. and because he is a good player, but what does it matter what Klopp thinks and how he sees it when we fans are on the forums are throwing our opinion out there for discussion and debate?

      End of the day we all know Klopp has full control, end of the day he picks who he feels is best for matches after training sessions, end of the day... we all have no say, but that doesn't stop us from discussing, debating or disagreeing, but it seems to upset Swab because we are all wrong and Klopp is 100% right all the time.... except when Klopp said we played with a double 6.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6117: Nov 06, 2018 02:29:38 pm
      Well, 3-4 PL matches, 4 CL, 1 Europa League, 1 Serie A and 1-2 La Liga is what's usually available to me :)

      https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/26/Fixtures/England-Liverpool

      Look at the heat maps (you don't even need to look at that if you watch our games), look at what Klopp said, and watch our games, then you will see a difference when we go from double pivot to 3 midfielders.

      Of course, but my point was more aimed at when Hendo played bad , I recall a couple of posters saying he didn't have a bad game and that it was more down to him playing to the managers instructions ;)

      you're confused fella.

      2 deeper players doesn't make a "double pivot" unless one is a "destroyer" and the other a playmaker or box to box playing in that specific way.
      Klopp's system is dependant on how much the fullbacks go forwards, in that for high fullbacks we play a slanted flat 3, with Milner (or whoever) directly behind Robertson, and on the other side, Wijnaldum (or whoever) tucked slightly inside but still behind TAA.
      That's not a double pivot, that's a flat pressure line, which gradually pushes up, so on the left we see this;

      Robertson

                                                      Firmino
                        Mane
      Milner

                                                               Henderson             


                                                                             CB                                                  CB     

      On the right we see Wijnaldum tucked in a little more behind TAA, Salah wider, with Henderson supporting, and Firmino staying more central.   

      Sometimes it might look like a double pivot, but it's really not, because a true double pivot is a pretty rigid system.
      Much more likely is that you recently read about it and now think that's what we play.

      The way we play is much closer to the Volante system, especially with Hendersons positioning, which Fabinho so far cannot replicate.
      No problem, he's still learning our systems. That's plural, because we play at least 6 different systems and formations in every match.

      Rafa now, played with a real double pivot in Masch and Alonso, but also used the Volante system as well, but a kind of double volante, with a deep and then a forward "steering wheel".

      Really, this is all very basic stuff that I shouldn't need to explain.                 
      « Last Edit: Nov 06, 2018 02:39:53 pm by Swab »

      Quick Reply