Jordan Henderson (Liverpool -> Al-Ettifaq (5 months) -> Ajax)

Only one arguing here is yourself who thinks Klopp controls which foot the players put on the pitch first.

Nah, you just don't understand how the top coaches work.
Nothing is left to chance.

But you think you're some kind of expert, hence your previous comment about "not playing the game at any decent level", which even at semi-pro level is like saying that because you did a first aid course, you are qualified to be a brain surgeon.
It's utter sh*te and a ridiculous comment to make.

you're confused fella.

2 deeper players doesn't make a "double pivot" unless one is a "destroyer" and the other a playmaker or box to box playing in that specific way.
Klopp's system is dependant on how much the fullbacks go forwards, in that for high fullbacks we play a slanted flat 3, with Miler (or whoever) directly behind Robertson, and on the other side, Wijnaldum (or whoever) tucked slightly inside but still behind TAA.
That's not a double pivot, that's a flat pressure line, which gradually pushes up, so on the left we see this;

Robertson

                                                Firmino
                  Mane
Milner

                                                         Henderson             


                                                                       CB                                                  CB     

On the right we see Wijnaldum tucked in a little more behind TAA, Salah wider, with Henderson supporting.   

Sometimes it might look like a double pivot, but it's really not.
Much more likely is that you recently read about it and now think that's what we play.

The way we play is much closer to the Volante system, especially with Hendersons positioning, which Fabinho so far cannot replicate.
No problem, he's still learning our systems. That's plural, because we play at least 6 different systems and formations in every match.

Rafa now, played with a real double pivot in Masch and Alonso, but also used the Volante system as well, but a kind of double volante, with a deep and then a forward "steering wheel".

Really, this is all very basic stuff that I shouldn't need to explain.                 

I'm not sure what I'm looking at formational wise. A double pivot is the 2 in a 4-2-3-1. Klopp uses 4-3-3.... We don't use a double pivot right now.

I'm not sure what I'm looking at formational wise. A double pivot is the 2 in a 4-2-3-1. Klopp uses 4-3-3.... We don't use a double pivot right now.

Which is exactly what I'm explaining.

We play variations on a 433.
Sometimes when we reset or in transition to defense it looks like a double pivot, but it isn't.

you're confused fella.

2 deeper players doesn't make a "double pivot" unless one is a "destroyer" and the other a playmaker or box to box playing in that specific way.
Klopp's system is dependant on how much the fullbacks go forwards, in that for high fullbacks we play a slanted flat 3, with Milner (or whoever) directly behind Robertson, and on the other side, Wijnaldum (or whoever) tucked slightly inside but still behind TAA.
That's not a double pivot, that's a flat pressure line, which gradually pushes up, so on the left we see this;

Robertson

                                                Firmino
                  Mane
Milner

                                                         Henderson             


                                                                       CB                                                  CB     

On the right we see Wijnaldum tucked in a little more behind TAA, Salah wider, with Henderson supporting.   

Sometimes it might look like a double pivot, but it's really not, because a true double pivot is a pretty rigid system.
Much more likely is that you recently read about it and now think that's what we play.

The way we play is much closer to the Volante system, especially with Hendersons positioning, which Fabinho so far cannot replicate.
No problem, he's still learning our systems. That's plural, because we play at least 6 different systems and formations in every match.

Rafa now, played with a real double pivot in Masch and Alonso, but also used the Volante system as well, but a kind of double volante, with a deep and then a forward "steering wheel".

Really, this is all very basic stuff that I shouldn't need to explain.                 

That is pretty much how you would see other teams support/cover when playing 433, you would see the team shifting to the attacking side and the side midfielders usually covering/support. What is so different about us is that our side midfielders has actually been playing more wider  to cover/support the attacking full backs, but essentially, it's still the same job as what you would see from other team's 433.

The double pivot has been different, look at the heat maps, re-watch the games again and you will notice a difference. I even posted clips, and now the heat maps and what Klopp said, but according to you, it's still the same as a 433 and the same system...

Which is exactly what I'm explaining.

We play variations on a 433.
Sometimes when we reset or in transition to defense it looks like a double pivot, but it isn't.

personally I think double pivot works well if there is less technical ability in the middle and pace at full back. Allows teams to sit back and hit on the counter. It's probably a formation useful against teams like Real Madrid, but against Red Star etc.. we should stray away from it.

I'm not sure what I'm looking at formational wise. A double pivot is the 2 in a 4-2-3-1. Klopp uses 4-3-3.... We don't use a double pivot right now.

We used the double pivot, a different system as Klopp stated vs Red Star and Cardiff.

We used the double pivot, a different system as Klopp stated vs Red Star and Cardiff.

ahh okay, I don't pay attention to systems that much anyway. I just know basics. I just like the formations that score a lot of goals, because I like goals and winning.

That is pretty much how you would see other teams defend/cover when playing 433, you would see the team shifting to the attacking side and the side midfielders usually covering/support. What is so different about us is that our side midfielders has actually been playing more wider  to cover/support the attacking full backs, but essentially, it's still the same job as what you would see from other team's 433.

The double pivot has been different, look at the heat maps, re-watch the games again and you will notice a difference. I even posted clips, and now the heat maps and what Klopp said, but according to you, it's still the same as a 433.

You posted nonsense fella.
2 deep midfielders at a particular moment in a match do not constitute a double pivot.

It's just another variation on a 433.

As well as this, it's not about formations, it's about creating, using and exploiting space by building pressure in different area's.
That's why we reset when a move breaks down.

Honestly, I can't be arsed with this.
If your knowledge is so limited that you're fixated on rigid systems and insist that's how we play, then there's nothing to discuss.

We used the double pivot, a different system as Klopp stated vs Red Star and Cardiff.

.

Yes but he will only listen to stuff Klopp states that he wants to listen to!

 I'm guessing this must be double pivot in a 4-3-3.

FW           FW          FW


                   CM
   DM                          DM


     FB     CB    CB       FB

                   GK

You tell us as the expert on Klopp tell us why he kept picking Mignolet and Moreno?

Because he didn’t have better options in the squad until he bought them - not exactly rocket science is it

.

Yes but he will only listen to stuff Klopp states that he wants to listen to!

Klopp said no such thing.
He said "maybe it's Fabinho's birthday present that we play 2 sixes". (paraphrased)
Which even if we played that formation for the whole match (we didn't) still doesn't constitute a double pivot.

He also said a while back that he was no longer going to go into detail about our formations, because journo's were too thick to understand, so in future he was going to dumb everything down for them.

You're a fine one to talk about ignoring Klopp, especially when it comes to Henderson. 

I'm guessing this must be double pivot in a 4-3-3.

FW           FW          FW


                   CM
   DM                          DM


     FB     CB    CB       FB

                   GK

Mane isn't a forward.
As Klopp stated, he's a midfielder, but a very attacking one.

And hey, if you don't like what Klopp said about Mane, take it up with him, I'm just passing on the info.

Because he didn’t have better options in the squad until he bought them - not exactly rocket science is it

Maybe why he has bought Keita and Fab?

Maybe why he has bought Keita and Fab?

Yes to add strength in the middle of the park - instead of just the three options we now have 6/7 now

Moreno hasn’t been offered a new contract and will leave , Klopp tried to seek Mignolet in the summer

Henderson got offered and signed a new 5 year contract

Add the dots

Klopp said no such thing.
He said "maybe it's Fabinho's birthday present that we play 2 sixes". (paraphrased)
Which even if we played that formation for the whole match (we didn't) still doesn't constitute a double pivot.

He also said a while back that he was no longer going to go into detail about our formations, because journo's were too thick to understand, so in future he was going to dumb everything down for them.

You're a fine one to talk about ignoring Klopp, especially when it comes to Henderson. 

Klopp has never down played any player even ones as poor as Mignolet and Moreno, hence why we love him.

Klopp also said after the Arse game we were not compact enough which you again ignored because that wouldn’t fit your narrative that Gini and Milner had a great game - who incidentally had the worst passing stats of all the outfield players.

Yes to add strength in the middle of the park - instead of just the three options we now have 6/7 now

Moreno hasn’t been offered a new contract and will leave , Klopp tried to seek Mignolet in the summer

Henderson got offered and signed a new 5 year contract

Add the dots

Erm no Moreno was offered a new contract which he has refused to sign. Thank God!

Maybe why he has bought Keita and Fab?

Fabinho was bought to replace Can.
Keita was bought as an alternative to OX, plus he's excellent and if you can grab that kind of player, you should.
Strong, unpredictable, good runner, good defender, good passer.

With the way we tailed off in Klopp's first season, due to the amount of matches we play and use a very high tempo, he wanted 2 players for every midfield position, plus a bit extra.
I don't think he's done yet, with Lallana unreliable because of fitness issues.

Klopp has never down played any player even ones as poor as Mignolet and Moreno, hence why we love him.

Klopp also said after the Arse game we were not compact enough which you again ignored because that wouldn’t fit your narrative that Gini and Milner had a great game - who incidentally had the worst passing stats of all the outfield players.

I didn't say Wijnaldum and Milner had great games.

I said Fabinho was poor, and for some peculiar reason, you got your arse in an uproar about it, same as when people pointed out Red Star are not really a good side.
Are you his mum or something?

Fabinho was bought to replace Can.
Keita was bought as an alternative to OX, plus he's excellent and if you can grab that kind of player, you should.
Strong, unpredictable, good runner, good defender, good passer.

With the way we tailed off in Klopp's first season, due to the amount of matches we play and use a very high tempo, he wanted 2 players for every midfield position, plus a bit extra.
I don't think he's done yet, with Lallana unreliable because of fitness issues.

Is there an actual quote anywhere from Klopp of exactly where Fab will play?

Erm no Moreno was offered a new contract which he has refused to sign. Thank God!

They were in negotiations but came to nothing as he wasnt going to be a first choice left back and knew he would be behind Robbo

So still the same questions

Why does Klopp put Henderson in the team when faced against the top teams

Why did he continue to keep him as club captain

Klopp added in players to support the midfield not to allow Henderson to leave

Is there an actual quote anywhere from Klopp of exactly where Fab will play?

Yeah, in the Indy somewhere.
Search for it if you want to.

He said (paraphrase) "He is an excellent footballer, good tactically, he can play as 6, 8, 2"
He also said that he was a replacement for Can.

And strangely enough, those are the positions Can played for us, albeit more of an emergency RB.
If memory serves he also filled in at CB a few times, something which I reckon Fabinho is probably capable of as well, in an emergency.

They were in negotiations but came to nothing as he wasnt going to be a first choice left back and knew he would be behind Robbo

So still the same questions

Why does Klopp put Henderson in the team when faced against the top teams

Why did he continue to keep him as club captain

Klopp added in players to support the midfield not to allow Henderson to leave

Oh right so Klopp was happy to give Moreno another contract..............

He has always given the club captain role to the longest serving player............I doubt Klopp puts as much importance on who is Captain as most fans do the way he hand it out so often!