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      Jordan Henderson (Liverpool -> Al-Ettifaq (5 months) -> Ajax)

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      andylfcynwa
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6371: Nov 29, 2018 08:43:18 pm
      Did Masch create?

      Did Hamman?

      No, they have a very specific job to do.

      But whatever, believe what you like, all you're doing is showing you haven't got a scooby what the position entails.

      Yes, Klopp would keep him as captain and constantly sing his praises for not doing exactly what he wants him to do.  :roll:
      Are you seriously comparing him to them , look your defense of the player ok but your own ideas are not gospel .
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6372: Nov 29, 2018 08:48:34 pm
      Are you seriously comparing him to them , look your defense of the player ok but your own ideas are not gospel .

      Do you even understand the position he plays?

      Masch won the ball and gave it to Alonso.

      Didi won the ball and gave it to Gerrard.

      That was their job.

      You expect Henderson to win the ball and then also do what Alonso and Gerrard did.

      These are not my "idea's" these are basic football concepts, which anyone who is serious about the game should understand.
      ffs, it's like a mathematician not knowing his times tables.

      That's the problem here; too many people who have no clue, aren't interested in learning, because they just want to take the easy option and bi*ch and moan.

      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6373: Nov 29, 2018 08:52:35 pm
      Do you even understand the position he plays?

      Masch won the ball and gave it to Alonso.

      Didi won the ball and gave it to Gerrard.


      That was their job.

      You expect Henderson to win the ball and then also do what Alonso and Gerrard did.

      These are not my "idea's" these are basic football concepts, which anyone who is serious about the game should understand.
      ffs, it's like a mathematician not knowing his times tables.

      That's the problem here; too many people who have no clue, aren't interested in learning, because they just want to take the easy option and bi*ch and moan.

      And there lies the problem, Henderson gets the ball and gives it to Van Dijk rather than giving it to Mane, Salah or Bobby.

      That's the point everyone is trying to make.
      molbys belly
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6374: Nov 29, 2018 08:59:05 pm
      Do you even understand the position he plays?

      Masch won the ball and gave it to Alonso.

      Didi won the ball and gave it to Gerrard.

      That was their job.

      You expect Henderson to win the ball and then also do what Alonso and Gerrard did.

      These are not my "idea's" these are basic football concepts, which anyone who is serious about the game should understand.
      ffs, it's like a mathematician not knowing his times tables.

      That's the problem here; too many people who have no clue, aren't interested in learning, because they just want to take the easy option and bi*ch and moan.



      Why do u keep saying that no one understands the game but you do ? You an expert ?
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6375: Nov 29, 2018 08:59:06 pm
      And there lies the problem, Henderson gets the ball and gives it to Van Dijk rather than giving it to Mane, Salah or Bobby.

      That's the point everyone is trying to make.

      Right, so you're saying that Alonso and Gerrard played in a front 3, and Masch and Hamann immediately played it up to them are you?

      Don't talk F***ing sh*te fella.

      I've explained how he creates space and holds up play while the players further forwards reset, as well as bringing one of our primary attacking options into play, in the fullbacks.
      Don't start with that sh*t about the fullbacks not being a primary attacking option either, Klopp said it a couple of days ago in an interview about Robertson which is posted in his thread.

      As I said earlier in the thread, some of you people want him to be Masch, Alonso and Gerrard all rolled into one.
      He has a specific job to do and he does it well; if you can't see that, that's your problem.
      Scotia
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6376: Nov 29, 2018 08:59:56 pm
      And there lies the problem, Henderson gets the ball and gives it to Van Dijk rather than giving it to Mane, Salah or Bobby.

      That's the point everyone is trying to make.


      In fairness you’ve also missed the point......

      The other two were feeding playmakers and THEY fed the frontmen......

      No one is comparing them as players they’re comparing the roles.

      Unfortunately this has descended to an echo chamber because of a couple of shouty tools and even this legitimate part of a debate becomes ridiculously polarised.

      Such a shame.

      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6377: Nov 29, 2018 09:08:42 pm
      In fairness you’ve also missed the point......

      The other two were feeding playmakers and THEY fed the frontmen......

      No one is comparing them as players they’re comparing the roles.

      Unfortunately this has descended to an echo chamber because of a couple of shouty tools and even this legitimate part of a debate becomes ridiculously polarised.

      Such a shame.

      Yeah maybe that was my fault in that last post maybe I should have said milner and Gini instead of the front three.

      The point still stands though most of the time he makes a negative pass when he could choose someone in an advanced position.

      I mean we could have virtually everyone in the opponent's half and he will still collect the ball and pass to VVD.

      In my opinion it wastes a few valuable seconds and allows the opponent's a bit of time to reset.

      Where a quicker forward pass could easily catch them off guard and out of position giving us a chance to score.

      Edit: I'm not trying to be argumentative or a dick this is how I see it with Henderson.
      « Last Edit: Nov 29, 2018 09:14:43 pm by LFCSTEVE1984 »
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6378: Nov 29, 2018 09:17:09 pm
      Yeah maybe that was my fault in that last post maybe I should have said milner and Gini instead of the front three.

      The point still stands though most of the time he makes a negative pass when he could choose someone in an advanced position.

      I mean we could have virtually everyone in the opponent's half and he will still collect the ball and pass to VVD.

      In my opinion it wastes a few valuable seconds and allows the opponent's a bit of time to reset.

      Where a quicker forward pass could easily catch them off guard and out of position giving us a chance to score.

      The pass to VVD is all about creating angles and opening up passing lanes, as well as creating space and resetting our attack.

      Take the picture that was posted allegedly showing 3 passing options.
      In 2 of those options we were outnumbered 4 to 2 with a considerably higher risk of losing the ball on the press, once the ball goes to VVD he has a clear passing lane down the left flank to Robertson, who is one of our primary attacking options.

      2 of our 3 midfielders are primarily defenders.
      We play 5 or 6 attacking, with 4 defending.
      So, we have 3 forwards, 1 or 2 fullbacks and one midfielder attacking.
      The other 2 MF and the 2 CB are defensive, but when play is compressed enough in the opponents half, 1 will join, but the other always stays back closer to the CB, and the one who joins further up, is primarily there to press and win the ball back.

      What we lack is a runner in the forward MF position.
      Ox did it last season, Keita was bought to do the job as well, but hasn't been brought in yet, for whatever reason.


      Scotia
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6379: Nov 29, 2018 09:17:26 pm
      Yeah maybe that was my fault in that last post maybe I should have said milner and Gini instead of the front three.

      The point still stands though most of the time he makes a negative pass when he could choose someone in an advanced position.

      I mean we could have virtually everyone in the opponent's half and he will still collect the ball and pass to VVD.

      In my opinion it wastes a few valuable seconds and allows the opponent's a bit of time to reset.

      Where a quicker forward pass could easily catch them off guard and out of position giving us a chance to score.

      Edit: I'm not trying to be argumentative or a duck this is how I see it with Henderson.

      No issue with that mate - more than entitled to see everything the complete opposite to me and still be s top red etc.

      I just get bored with the shouty fuds that drive this thread. There clearly is a frustration shared by many but this is a witch-hunt.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6380: Nov 29, 2018 09:28:34 pm
      Heard it all now passing to VVD to create passing lanes and resetting the attack.


      VVD and Lovren are just as capable of passing the ball to a full back, don't need someone with a inside out pass to do that!

      We give the opposition time to get back into shape hence losing any transition advantage - anybody heard anything so ridiculous?

      Clearly Fabinho isn't given these instructions that only Swab and Henderson know about.

      Rather than look at the obvious ie he is not comfortable in the middle of the pitch where he might be pressed hence he drops deep we have posters making up sh*te because they have got themselves into a corner and not adult enough to admit actually there might be something there.
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6381: Nov 29, 2018 09:29:03 pm
      The pass to VVD is all about creating angles and opening up passing lanes, as well as creating space and resetting our attack.

      Take the picture that was posted allegedly showing 3 passing options.
      In 2 of those options we were outnumbered 4 to 2 with a considerably higher risk of losing the ball on the press, once the ball goes to VVD he has a clear passing lane down the left flank to Robertson, who is one of our primary attacking options.

      2 of our 3 midfielders are primarily defenders.
      We play 5 or 6 attacking, with 4 defending.
      So, we have 3 forwards, 1 or 2 fullbacks and one midfielder attacking.
      The other 2 MF and the 2 CB are defensive, but when play is compressed enough in the opponents half, 1 will join, but the other always stays back closer to the CB, and the one who joins further up, is primarily there to press and win the ball back.

      What we lack is a runner in the forward MF position.
      Ox did it last season, Keita was bought to do the job as well, but hasn't been brought in yet, for whatever reason.

      Thanks for explaining all that and I totally understand what you're saying.

      However he will play that pass 9 times out of 10 which in my opinion isn't necessary.

      You can't just play the game not passing to players because they are marked.

      Professional footballers are more than capable of taking a ball under pressure.

      Plus plenty of times VVD will still pass to the same marked player.

      Like I said not being a cock mate I'm genuinely trying to see the other side's point of view. Because as evidenced by our debate we are worlds apart haha

      He really is the marmite player isn't he.

      Edit: Totally agree about a runner we are so pedestrian across the whole midfield it's depressing.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6382: Nov 29, 2018 09:37:32 pm
      Thanks for explaining all that and I totally understand what you're saying.

      However he will play that pass 9 times out of 10 which in my opinion isn't necessary.

      You can't just play the game not passing to players because they are marked.

      Professional footballers are more than capable of taking a ball under pressure.

      Plus plenty of times VVD will still pass to the same marked player.

      Like I said not being a cock mate I'm genuinely trying to see the other side's point of view. Because as evidenced by our debate we are worlds apart haha

      He really is the marmite player isn't he.

      He really doesn't play it 9/10 that's just a myth.
      He plays a range of passes, short, long, back, side, forwards.
      The reason he does that, is because Klopp's systems aren't about geggenpressing all the time, they are more about creating pressure through possession, and that means low risk passes, plus opening up space to use.
      The reason we drop deep and go backwards is to create space in the middle, which in turn creates spaces wider.

      He plays complex systems; listen to him speak about the "half space" and creating pressure by closing down opposition passing lanes, but most importantly about retaining possession and creating pressure and space that way.

      He doesn't use midfielders in what we might think of as a traditional way, with one holding and one box to box, with 2 wide, as you'd see in an old 442.
      He uses fullbacks as attackers to create width, with the wide forwards tucking in (bodies in the box), and also to outnumber the opposition in key area's.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6383: Nov 29, 2018 09:50:32 pm
      Heard it all now passing to VVD to create passing lanes and resetting the attack.


      VVD and Lovren are just as capable of passing the ball to a full back, don't need someone with a inside out pass to do that!

      We give the opposition time to get back into shape hence losing any transition advantage - anybody heard anything so ridiculous?

      Clearly Fabinho isn't given these instructions that only Swab and Henderson know about.

      Rather than look at the obvious ie he is not comfortable in the middle of the pitch where he might be pressed hence he drops deep we have posters making up sh*te because they have got themselves into a corner and not adult enough to admit actually there might be something there.

      Oh yeah, Fabinho, who according to you was going to come in and immediately oust Henderson, completely ignoring what Klopp said of course, about him being brought in to replace Can, and Klopp saying he would play 6 and 8.
      Let's also not forget your epic hissy fit when it was pointed out that he's slow on the turn and lacks pace off the mark.

      Listen fella, if you want to debate sensibly, first try to understand Klopp's systems, then try to understand why he values Henderson so highly, then after that, understand that Klopp is building a squad so he can rotate players and rest them.

      If you don't want to do that, carry on being a F***ing melt and join the other fella in quoting Phil F***ing Neville, because that appears to be your current level of knowledge.
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6384: Nov 29, 2018 09:54:45 pm
      He really doesn't play it 9/10 that's just a myth.
      He plays a range of passes, short, long, back, side, forwards.
      The reason he does that, is because Klopp's systems aren't about geggenpressing all the time, they are more about creating pressure through possession, and that means low risk passes, plus opening up space to use.
      The reason we drop deep and go backwards is to create space in the middle, which in turn creates spaces wider.

      He plays complex systems; listen to him speak about the "half space" and creating pressure by closing down opposition passing lanes, but most importantly about retaining possession and creating pressure and space that way.

      He doesn't use midfielders in what we might think of as a traditional way, with one holding and one box to box, with 2 wide, as you'd see in an old 442.
      He uses fullbacks as attackers to create width, with the wide forwards tucking in (bodies in the box), and also to outnumber the opposition in key area's.

      I'm not ignoring this by the way mate. I've got a 15 week who is teething (yes 15 weeks WTF is that all about) and he's just kicked off.

      I'll post a reply when I get some time, but it might be tomorrow now.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6385: Nov 29, 2018 10:06:50 pm
      I'm not ignoring this by the way mate. I've got a 15 week who is teething (yes 15 weeks WTF is that all about) and he's just kicked off.

      I'll post a reply when I get some time, but it might be tomorrow now.

      Bloody hell at 15 weeks?   :laugh:
      Keen to get on the solids then.
      Good luck with the wee one, hopefully it won't last too long.

      I have a new grandson here, with his mammy (daughter in law), and I swear the little bugger is growing a couple of pounds a day, a right hungry lad he is, but still at the stage where all he does is eat and sh*t. Not much of a cryer so far, which is nice.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6386: Nov 29, 2018 10:08:47 pm

      Barca came in for Coutinho cos he let them know he was interested in a move. Juve came in for Can for the same reason. If Hendo let it be known he wanted a move there would be plenty of interest. From all our English rivals for a start.


       :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6387: Nov 29, 2018 10:12:24 pm
      Oh yeah, Fabinho, who according to you was going to come in and immediately oust Henderson, completely ignoring what Klopp said of course, about him being brought in to replace Can, and Klopp saying he would play 6 and 8.
      Let's also not forget your epic hissy fit when it was pointed out that he's slow on the turn and lacks pace off the mark.

      Listen fella, if you want to debate sensibly, first try to understand Klopp's systems, then try to understand why he values Henderson so highly, then after that, understand that Klopp is building a squad so he can rotate players and rest them.

      If you don't want to do that, carry on being a f**king melt and join the other fella in quoting Phil f**king Neville, because that appears to be your current level of knowledge.

      You seem to be the only person on the planet who seems to have got a grip on exactly how we play! Well in your own lunchtime you have.

      What you describe about Hendersons role is just complete tosh. The recycler who has no other role apart from passing to the full backs.
      Klopp praises every player to high heaven, you think he is going call his Captain a average squad player.

      Regarding where Klopp said he was brought in to replace Can I have asked you before and you declined to show me the quotes from Klopp.

      Still waiting for the inclusion of Henderson in the team to see a huge improvement in the midfield as you and a couple of others were claiming  :D

      You have painted yourself into a corner and I can see with your posting style you are the sort of person who will not admit making a mistake or even acknowledge others may have a valid point.
      Just like your derision of Napoli and Red Star even after being humbled by them you couldn't bring yourself to admit they were not sh*t as you claimed.


      You and a few others seem to go out of your way to try and convince people about this world class talent we cannot do without.
      Whereas the results would suggest any time we come up against a top team and you can include Milner we are found wanting.

      The sooner the likes of Henderson sees less first team action the more likely we might get back to winning shiny things.





      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6388: Nov 29, 2018 10:15:41 pm
      You seem to be the only person on the planet who seems to have got a grip on exactly how we play! Well in your own lunchtime you have.


      No fella, it's just the other lads have more sense than to get involved with the likes of you.
      An example I am now going to follow.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6389: Nov 29, 2018 10:17:54 pm
      Just think about it Klopp tells Henderson to stand next to the CB's and Milner to drift out as a wingback and leave a huge gaping hole in the middle of the pitch.

      Some  nutters on here masquerading as knowing about Klopps systems and tactics  :lmao:
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6390: Nov 29, 2018 10:19:38 pm
      No fella, it's just the other lads have more sense than to get involved with the likes of you.
      An example I am now going to follow.

      Others who rate Henderson more than I do have the ability to have a reasoned debate and discussion something you are incapable of doing without insults and disparaging remarks.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6391: Nov 29, 2018 10:25:26 pm
      But in the short cameos we've seen of Fabinho in the same position you can see a clear difference between him and Hendo.

      He plays a lot more forward balls and is involved in the play a lot further up too.

      So why would he instruct two players playing the same role to do pretty much the complete opposite?

      Do you think he says to Hendo you stay back as much as possible and when you get the ball recycle it back to the defence.

      Then says to Fabinho you get forward and play the ball forward when you get the chance.

      Even Gini was much more positive earlier in the season when he played the DM role brilliantly.

      I just don't get why two would have more freedom, even though they could just as easily play the backward pass and recycle possession and one would be instructed to play it safe 90% of the time.

      And no you smartarses I can't ask Klopp.

      Just wondering if any of you had any insight.

      Edit: please don't try to say it's because of different opposition because Hendo does the same every game and Fabinho and Gini did in each of their games.

      Double edit: If like someone else above said you are going to say different players playing a different role in the same position...

      Why would Henderson be restricted to mainly playing it safe every game while the other two are allowed to be adventurous?

      Always thought that football was a fluid thing and players were meant to be flexible in thier approach to the game, but hey! If it's not his job to seek out a forward pass when one is on... :f_whistle:
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6392: Nov 29, 2018 10:33:16 pm
      Why do u keep saying that no one understands the game but you do ? You an expert ?
      Klopp goes to him when he needs points on the basis principals of football  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6393: Nov 30, 2018 12:06:24 am
      www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-ratings-psg-alisson-henderson-15479071.amp

      Jordan Henderson 4

      Looked devoid of energy whenever PSG players ran at him, which was costly first half. More of the ball after the break but didn't do enough with said possession.


      Now I'm off to the manager thread to moan about how Gomez was moved to full back.
      « Last Edit: Nov 30, 2018 12:11:47 am by Ribapuru »

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