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      Jordan Henderson (Liverpool -> Al-Ettifaq (5 months) -> Ajax)

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      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6555: Dec 13, 2018 02:02:58 pm
      I donā€™t believe I have suggested anything of the sort  ???

      Well you and your mate have suggested the reason why Fab plays in a certain system so I assumed the same applies to Henderson.....No?
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6556: Dec 13, 2018 02:08:50 pm
      Well you and your mate have suggested the reason why Fab plays in a certain system so I assumed the same applies to Henderson.....No?

      I would suggest that you appear to be looking for some sort of angle

      Henderson in his nearly 300 games for Liverpool has played in countless different formations -

      He has played - Right mid , attacking mid , right wing , centre mid and defensive mid

      He has played in a 2 in the middle , a three and as a one sitting - he has played as a three high - etc etc ( hope you see the point now )


      Fabinho so far has just played as part of a two - thatā€™s all at the moment , we havenā€™t seen him play as a solo deep lying defensive mid as yet

      Havenā€™t ā€œsuggestedā€ anything and suspect you are just looking for an angle to go for a point scoring exercise
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6557: Dec 13, 2018 02:10:21 pm
      Well you and your mate have suggested the reason why Fab plays in a certain system so I assumed the same applies to Henderson.....No?

      Hang on fella, you're the one gobbing off that Fabinho is much better as a 6 (ish) than Henderson, and said that Henderson cannot do the same things that he does, when the fact is Fabinho has never played as a lone 6 (ish) for Liverpool.

      Instead, he plays in a much more defensive and rigid system which you inaccurately describe as "more creative".

      So in effect, you have 2 players doing the job that Henderson does in Klopp's usual system.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6558: Dec 13, 2018 02:44:27 pm
      Hang on fella, you're the one gobbing off that Fabinho is much better as a 6 (ish) than Henderson, and said that Henderson cannot do the same things that he does, when the fact is Fabinho has never played as a lone 6 (ish) for Liverpool.

      Instead, he plays in a much more defensive and rigid system which you inaccurately describe as "more creative".

      So in effect, you have 2 players doing the job that Henderson does in Klopp's usual system.

      Dont be so ridiculous his single role is too break up play and lay it off in your own words!

      Two roles eh when was the last time he laid on a assist or even made a key pass to break the lines?

      Funny only you can imagine the 4231 to be more rigid and defensive when in our 433 Henderson's role is effectively just a destroyer

       :D
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6559: Dec 13, 2018 02:50:03 pm
      Dont be so ridiculous his single role is too break up play and lay it off in your own words!

      Two roles eh when was the last time he laid on a assist or even made a key pass to break the lines?

      Funny only you can imagine the 4231 to be more rigid and defensive when in our 433 Henderson's role is effectively just a destroyer

       :D

      Tuesday night.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6560: Dec 13, 2018 02:52:57 pm
      Dont be so ridiculous his single role is too break up play and lay it off in your own words!

      Two roles eh when was the last time he laid on a assist or even made a key pass to break the lines?

      Funny only you can imagine the 4231 to be more rigid and defensive when in our 433 Henderson's role is effectively just a destroyer

       :D

      Tuesday
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6561: Dec 13, 2018 02:54:33 pm
      They have both got me Drum roll Henderson made his first key pass in the CL this season  :D
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6562: Dec 13, 2018 02:55:53 pm
      The point I believe that was being made is when Henderson plays he seems to be on his own in the middle as the DM ,  when itā€™s Fabinho he has Gini sat next to him as a second DM. We havenā€™t seen how Fabinho will play yet as that one sitting DM

      Thing is.... we have seen him play as the lone 6 in a midfield 3 in 1Ā½ matches, but the only thing we haven't seen is Fabinho as the lone 6 in how we played vs Napoli, and on paper, I think Fabinho of today would struggle with that high pressing intensive play.

      Where is this he needs a minder theory of yours coming from?

      The last few games he has started we have played a 4231 to accommodate Shaq because of the lack of creativity from midfield hence the need for two defensive mids.

      Tbh, a lot of No #6's in world football would struggle as the lone 6 like how we played vs Napoli, and even more so vs teams with exceptional attacking players (Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Barca, Real, Juventus, Bayern, Napoli, Spurs, Dortmund & PSG), regardless of playing game management way or the high intensity.

      And correct me If I am wrong, but didn't we get cut apart a few times by Napoli through the middle? And did Hendo not get cover from either Wijnaldum or Milner most of the time? So essentially, he does have a minder!

      Anyway, with how we played vs Napoli and even last season's 433, I do think Hendo's attributes are more suited to the 6 than Fabinho, where as Fabinho's attributes are more suited to a 4231 or the 433 slower build up style.
      « Last Edit: Dec 13, 2018 03:40:48 pm by PurpleMonkey »
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6563: Dec 13, 2018 03:01:11 pm

      Anyway, with how we played vs Napoli and even last season's 433, I do think Hendo's attributes are more suited to the 6 than Fabinho, where as Fabinho's attributes are more suited to a 4231 or the 433 slower build up style.

      Thats probably a fair assessment, the 3 were unleashed to press the life out of Napoli on Tuesday and no doubt Henderson is much better at this aspect of the game than Fab.

      racerx34
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6564: Dec 13, 2018 03:03:03 pm
      I understand what you're saying, but Henderson spends probably 90% of his time as the deepest player, with Milner and Wijnaldum covering the full backs to one degree or another.

      Fabinho is the one who gets forwards most with Wijnaldum covering.

      So the question remains; if Fabinho is so much better in the 6 (ish) role (according to some) why does he need a minder to play deep.

      I think it would be interesting to see when Fabinho plays do Shaqiri and/or Keita play more often than not.
      That would suggest that the change to a 2 is not because of Fabinho but rather the role of the players further up the pitch.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6565: Dec 13, 2018 03:08:30 pm
      I think it would be interesting to see when Fabinho plays do Shaqiri and/or Keita play more often than not.
      That would suggest that the change to a 2 is not because of Fabinho but rather the role of the players further up the pitch.

      Yes, that would be interesting.

      My thoughts are that we will probably see a lot of mix and match depending on the opposition, and rotation because of the intensity of Klopp's style.

      It's early days yet for both Fabinho and Keita, but I'm sure they'll both have a big part to play in the future.
      racerx34
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6566: Dec 13, 2018 03:12:31 pm
      Yes, that would be interesting.

      My thoughts are that we will probably see a lot of mix and match depending on the opposition, and rotation because of the intensity of Klopp's style.

      It's early days yet for both Fabinho and Keita, but I'm sure they'll both have a big part to play in the future.

      We've definitely seen a shift in formation that is dependent on the opposition.
      What I'm most interested in this weekend is what the team looks like v Utd.
      Salah central or wide will show Klopp's approach to this version of Utd.
      Quite possible he goes central if Utd park the bus.
      How that filters back then will be interesting.
      Injuries mounting up might put Wijnaldum & Henderson as the favoured pairing.
      bmck
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6567: Dec 13, 2018 03:18:10 pm
      Hendo is still an important player, and JĆ¼rgen trusts him to do the job he wants him to do - but if Fab keeps improving steadily, I could see him become the regular starter in the DM role. Not there yet, but just imho he is showing signs of being a better player *in that position* - time will tell.
      Also think VVD is the obvious captain and should get the armband, maybe next season. The guy is a colossus.
      So standards are improving round Hendo, he has serious competition now that he hasn't had for years.
      There are people who have been knocking Hendo for donkeys, but its only now imho that his place is really starting to come under threat.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6568: Dec 13, 2018 03:22:04 pm
      We've definitely seen a shift in formation that is dependent on the opposition.
      What I'm most interested in this weekend is what the team looks like v Utd.
      Salah central or wide will show Klopp's approach to this version of Utd.
      Quite possible he goes central if Utd park the bus.
      How that filters back then will be interesting.
      Injuries mounting up might put Wijnaldum & Henderson as the favoured pairing.

      I look at it as a change of emphasis with certain players rather than formation changes, for the reason that I see us play various formations during the course of a match.
      I take little notice of how we line up initially, because a lot of the time that formation will change almost immediately, depending on where the focus of our attack comes from.

      For me, Mourinho will be looking for another stalemate, while hoping to nick a goal, but we've proven more adept at beating packed defenses this season, so I'm hopeful we can get a win.
      If we get our noses in front, and they come out to try and play, opening the game up, it could be a rout, which would be the best result for me.
      racerx34
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6569: Dec 13, 2018 03:28:33 pm
      I look at it as a change of emphasis with certain players rather than formation changes, for the reason that I see us play various formations during the course of a match.
      I take little notice of how we line up initially, because a lot of the time that formation will change almost immediately, depending on where the focus of our attack comes from.

      For me, Mourinho will be looking for another stalemate, while hoping to nick a goal, but we've proven more adept at beating packed defenses this season, so I'm hopeful we can get a win.
      If we get our noses in front, and they come out to try and play, opening the game up, it could be a rout, which would be the best result for me.

      You could draw the staring XI v Utd as a 4222, 4231, 433 & it would still have the same players lining up.
      Utd will sit deep, no doubt. Reckon Salah and Firmino will be up front. Take your pick from Mane, Keita, Shaqiri as deeper forwards. Wijnaldum & Henderson paired up with either Milner or Fabinho as RB.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6570: Dec 13, 2018 03:42:12 pm
      You could draw the staring XI v Utd as a 4222, 4231, 433 & it would still have the same players lining up.
      Utd will sit deep, no doubt. Reckon Salah and Firmino will be up front. Take your pick from Mane, Keita, Shaqiri as deeper forwards. Wijnaldum & Henderson paired up with either Milner or Fabinho as RB.

      Interesting you should post that, as I've been noticing that sort of Brazilian system rather than the more rigid 4231, when Fabinho and Wijnaldum are paired in the centre.

      On Sunday, I'd be surprised if Henderson didn't start, but the main thing is that we have plenty of options in the team and the bench.
      racerx34
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6571: Dec 13, 2018 03:49:58 pm
      Interesting you should post that, as I've been noticing that sort of Brazilian system rather than the more rigid 4231, when Fabinho and Wijnaldum are paired in the centre.

      On Sunday, I'd be surprised if Henderson didn't start, but the main thing is that we have plenty of options in the team and the bench.

      I posted it in the match thread but others chose to focus on the phallic nature of the line-up.

      LFC have tried that formation a few times down the years and it's arguably the system that most suits the players at the clubs disposal. Maybe better suited to Fabinho than Henderson so we'll see.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6572: Dec 13, 2018 03:56:47 pm
      The one thing that Man Utd appear to look to do these days is pack the middle with numbers

      They donā€™t appear to have any real width in the team - Utd used to be strong when they stretched the pitch with wingers

      Thatā€™s why after a bit of thinking I see Klopp going for a 4-3-3 with Mane and Salah wide and Bobby in the middle. The back four depending on injuries but it could be

      Milner - Lovren - VVD - Robbo

      Itā€™s the midfield three that will be interesting

      Henderson I think plays so then it will need a lot of pace and intensity with him so thatā€™s Gini and Keita

      So my team will be

      Alisson

      Milner
      Lovren
      VVD
      Robbo

      Kieta
      Henderson
      Gini

      Salah
      Bobby
      Mane
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6573: Dec 13, 2018 04:13:15 pm
      I posted it in the match thread but others chose to focus on the phallic nature of the line-up.

      LFC have tried that formation a few times down the years and it's arguably the system that most suits the players at the clubs disposal. Maybe better suited to Fabinho than Henderson so we'll see.

      Fair points.

      Given the choice, and assuming that Fabinho and Keita settle and show their worth (which I think they will) my first choice line up, once they are fully integrated would be Henderson, Fabinho and Keita, with Keita being the furthest forward and the other 2 rotating the holding role.
      It's seen these days as a bit of an old fashioned system, in this age of specialists (to have one holding and one getting forwards) but I think that's a bit of a mistake.
      Trends and fads come and go in football, so I think we will move away from "specialists" and back to players who can do more than one job, and do them well.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6574: Dec 13, 2018 04:16:15 pm
      Fair points.

      Given the choice, and assuming that Fabinho and Keita settle and show their worth (which I think they will) my first choice line up, once they are fully integrated would be Henderson, Fabinho and Keita, with Keita being the furthest forward and the other 2 rotating the holding role.
      It's seen these days as a bit of an old fashioned system, in this age of specialists (to have one holding and one getting forwards) but I think that's a bit of a mistake.
      Trends and fads come and go in football, so I think we will move away from "specialists" and back to players who can do more than one job, and do them well.

      I think that is what Klopp sees as his best three as well - Henderson and Fabinho rotating in the ā€œ6 and 8ā€ roles with Keita being the one to carry and burst forward
      racerx34
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6575: Dec 13, 2018 04:22:06 pm
      Fair points.

      Given the choice, and assuming that Fabinho and Keita settle and show their worth (which I think they will) my first choice line up, once they are fully integrated would be Henderson, Fabinho and Keita, with Keita being the furthest forward and the other 2 rotating the holding role.
      It's seen these days as a bit of an old fashioned system, in this age of specialists (to have one holding and one getting forwards) but I think that's a bit of a mistake.
      Trends and fads come and go in football, so I think we will move away from "specialists" and back to players who can do more than one job, and do them well.


      I'm not sure a specialist would fit in with the changes in shape seen this season.
      There is a very solid base there in Henderson and Wijnaldum and obviously one of them will need to make way if Fabinho is to feature more heavily. Then allowing the likes of Keita and Shaqiri to shift between wide defensive positions and more central attacking mid options. That flexibility comes from the solid pairing behind them. To a casual observer that may look more like a 4231 or 433 but the flexibility comes from a 4222. It depends on whether the forward is dropping wide or the AM.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6576: Dec 13, 2018 04:25:26 pm
      4222 lacks width, that is why nobody uses it much, going out wide leaves space in the middle.
      442 used to be the norm, but a lot of teams went to 433 now, but 4231 is alright sometimes.
      41212 is okay for some teams, never been a fan of it though.
      racerx34
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6577: Dec 13, 2018 04:28:35 pm
      4222 lacks width, that is why nobody uses it much, going out wide leaves space in the middle.
      442 used to be the norm, but a lot of teams went to 433 now, but 4231 is alright sometimes.
      41212 is okay for some teams, never been a fan of it though.

      I don't think either of us were saying that the team strictly plays the formation,
      and even then the Full Backs are providing the width in Klopp's team.

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