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      Jordan Henderson (Liverpool -> Al-Ettifaq (5 months) -> Ajax)

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      racerx34
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6808: Feb 26, 2019 09:44:53 am
      Aren't we more or less on the same page? The difference is, you seem to see the double pivot only applying when you have a specialist destroyer and creator? But how much different is that to Wijnaldum & Fabinho, Hendo & Fab and Wijnaldum & Hendo partnerships where one (doesn't matter who) would sit and one would go (become an attacking outlet), effectively giving the same role as your traditional double pivot?

      Maybe the double pivot you see with the midfielders we have are not the familiar specialists you know of, therefore you don't see it as a double pivot , but surely it functions the same as your traditional ones? I have no qualms with it being called a double 6 or a double pivot as both are pretty much the same in my eyes.


      Ultimately you can call it what you want.
      The original setup of double pivot involved specialists in the 2 of a 4-2-3-1.
      Klopp doesn't use specialists nor do Liverpool have the players to play a double pivot.
      The pair of a Klopp 2 is more like old school box to box players in a 4-4-2, where one goes and one covers like in the 4-2-2-2.
      But people call it a double pivot anyway.

      Henderson is neither a destroyer or a "Quarter Back"/Deep Lying Playmaker.
      They are the roles involved in the original use of the term double pivot.
      Now, like we've said, it's bastardised to refer to the covering midfielders.

      Liverpool under Klopp don't use specialists so I doubt we'll ever truly use a proper double pivot.
      Closest player we have to being part of that would be Fabinho
      and even then it could be argued that eventually he could be a Volante.

      It's been a good discussion.
      I'll leave it there before I have to warn myself for derailing the topic.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6809: Feb 26, 2019 12:26:36 pm
      Good explanations above.

      I completely switched off after reading that Gerrard and Lampard were an example of a "double pivot".

      What they were, was a F***ing mess.
      A great example of 2 good players being completely unable to play together, mostly because Lampard could only really play one way.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6810: Feb 26, 2019 12:31:45 pm
      Looks like some haven’t moved on since the 90’s when the Spanish sort of pioneered the original idea of a double pivot.

      Face it grandads football has moved on and the 2 players who primarily play in front of the back 4 are and can be called a double pivot.
      Scotia
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6811: Feb 26, 2019 12:34:57 pm
      Looks like some haven’t moved on since the 90’s when the Spanish sort of pioneered the original idea of a double pivot.

      Face it grandads football has moved on and the 2 players who primarily play in front of the back 4 are and can be called a double pivot.

      Hahaha my kids do that......

      “Well that’s what we call it now so it must be right”.....

      Aye ok, now turn your music down and geez peace ;)
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6812: Feb 26, 2019 12:39:12 pm
      Hahaha my kids do that......

      “Well that’s what we call it now so it must be right”.....

      Aye ok, now turn your music down and geez peace ;)

      F**k that, just take the fuse out of the plugs when they're out.
      Puzzles them no end.
      racerx34
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6813: Feb 26, 2019 02:32:57 pm
      Looks like some haven’t moved on since the 90’s when the Spanish sort of pioneered the original idea of a double pivot.

      Face it grandads football has moved on and the 2 players who primarily play in front of the back 4 are and can be called a double pivot.

      Which is effectively what we said.
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6814: Feb 27, 2019 11:22:29 am
      What have I denied? That we usually play with 2 CM/double 6/double pivot? I think it was you who denied this even when I showed you evidence and evidence from your friend, P.Neville good few pages back.

      Anyway, do you think Henderson can distribute like Fabinho if asked to? Both players have played in a 3 and 2 this season, and both distribute from deep differently because they have different levels of technical ability and are different types of players.

      The easiest thing to do is go into the official site and go to the squad page and do the comparison at the bottom.

      You'll get a pretty good idea of how they all compare in defence, attack and general areas of play.
      TheRedPanda
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6815: Feb 28, 2019 02:48:49 pm



       :lmao: :lmao:

      bmck
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6816: Mar 01, 2019 11:30:07 pm
      Was thinking Hendo would start against Everton, after having not started vs. Watford. But JĂźrgen can be hard to predict.
      It's not like Hendo is playing poorly imho, we just have more options than we used to. Which is great.
      Plus Fab's shown he can play the DM and be positive when the chance comes, so shades the starting place for me all things being equal. But having had the midweek game, Hendo must be in with a better chance of a start than usual.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6817: Mar 03, 2019 09:13:41 pm
      RC9
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6818: Mar 03, 2019 09:36:04 pm
      Thought Henderson looked good today in parts, played two beautiful passes and tried to get forward on the right quite a bit.

      Not sure he was in his best position today though, I don't see how him and Fabinho can work in the same three but nevertheless he played well for me today.
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6819: Mar 04, 2019 04:34:35 am

      Ouch that's not good is it, can't really defend that can you.

      I don't think he is good enough. I think he stifles our play massively.
      bmck
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6820: Mar 04, 2019 06:51:25 pm
      I like Hendo, and for the first time in ages I got the starting XI right before the Everton match - but after seeing Fab and him play together several times now, just don't think it works. Thought before the match the choice would be good in that it would give us more control in the middle, the two defensive minded lads would stifle Everton's passion, and they did to some extent, but playing together they also stifle us creatively.

      In saying that, think we had enough chances to win the match on Sunday gone, and that the *main* problem on THAT day [not he only one] was Mo/Mane/Origi/Firmino not linking properly, mis-controlling the ball, missing passes and squandering chances. The lads at the back did their job, the lads up front didn't.

      But Hendo and Fab are quite similar, and comparing the two, Fab gives us more imho. I roared the TV a few times when Hendo was played the ball, and instead of taking a touch and looking forward [when in space and with time!!!]  he just instinctively hit it backward first time without even a thought. It's just not enough where we are now, in games where teams are setting up to be solid and play on the break, and when we need to WIN, to have two defensive minded guys there. Think we need to be more positive, even it it means taking a risk. And even though I think Hendo is trying to be more positive, and he did hit a few good passes, it's not his natural game now [he's been playing another way too long].

      Would hope we don't see them start in the same side again [unless it's US setting up to defend]. We're in a ropey phase, and we probably need to take a risk and play guys whose instinct is more to attack. Need to break out of this run and really struggle to see how us lining up with Fab/Hendo again will help with that.

      Could be wrong obviously, and wouldn't care a damn, just want us to start winning again cause chances [still only one point off the lead] like these don't come along often..
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6821: Mar 04, 2019 09:08:49 pm
      Henderson isn't good enough for us. People go on about loyalty, but nobody else in top 6 would pay anything substantial for him. He's loyal for the same reason Joe Allen would be if we still had him. Klopp might back him, but he also backed Mignolet for a long time and still backs Lovren and Lallana. There's people who are afraid of actually admitting they are fedup of Henderson because of the backlash, the stats don't surprise me but from watching games I didn't need stats to see how he stifles us. Regardless of position, Henderson is about as talented as Stuart Downing.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6822: Mar 04, 2019 09:25:36 pm
      Henderson isn't good enough for us. People go on about loyalty, but nobody else in top 6 would pay anything substantial for him. He's loyal for the same reason Joe Allen would be if we still had him. Klopp might back him, but he also backed Mignolet for a long time and still backs Lovren and Lallana. There's people who are afraid of actually admitting they are fedup of Henderson because of the backlash, the stats don't surprise me but from watching games I didn't need stats to see how he stifles us. Regardless of position, Henderson is about as talented as Stuart Downing.

      Are you still here?

      I saw in the match thread you were going all out to try and get a reaction.
      Now you pop up in here looking for one.

      So sad.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6823: Mar 04, 2019 09:40:26 pm
      Are you still here?

      I saw in the match thread you were going all out to try and get a reaction.
      Now you pop up in here looking for one.

      So sad.
      I want trophies and Henderson won't bring them. We won one since he's been at the club and he was injured when we won that. If he was fit we probably wouldn't have even won that one.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6824: Mar 05, 2019 12:59:53 pm
      It's difficult to disagree that the midfield three was a bit too negative. And whilst Henderson didn't play badly, it's his style going forward that frustrate me the most. He can pick a pass, and he did get a couple of very good ones, but it's always very predictable. You always know he's going for the wide man wherever possible, you know he'll cross if he has the space, you know he'll hardly ever try intricate short passing through the middle - where the real bonus is. So I'd rather have him as a DM at the moment, not because he's bad going forward, but because I think we have better options on that front. And I'm afraid he wouldn't make my best XI as Fabinho has been superb; well, at least not on a trio with Gini, perhaps with a different third midfielder.
      Swab
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6825: Mar 05, 2019 01:25:04 pm
      It's difficult to disagree that the midfield three was a bit too negative. And whilst Henderson didn't play badly, it's his style going forward that frustrate me the most. He can pick a pass, and he did get a couple of very good ones, but it's always very predictable. You always know he's going for the wide man wherever possible, you know he'll cross if he has the space, you know he'll hardly ever try intricate short passing through the middle - where the real bonus is. So I'd rather have him as a DM at the moment, not because he's bad going forward, but because I think we have better options on that front. And I'm afraid he wouldn't make my best XI as Fabinho has been superb; well, at least not on a trio with Gini, perhaps with a different third midfielder.

      I think the getting it wide and crossing are orders from Klopp though.
      In fact, I'm sure of it, so it seems a bit harsh to me to pick those points out.

      At the end of the day, it's all about options, and the more we have, the better.
      Magillionare
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6826: Mar 06, 2019 06:42:42 am
      It's difficult to disagree that the midfield three was a bit too negative. And whilst Henderson didn't play badly, it's his style going forward that frustrate me the most. He can pick a pass, and he did get a couple of very good ones, but it's always very predictable. You always know he's going for the wide man wherever possible, you know he'll cross if he has the space, you know he'll hardly ever try intricate short passing through the middle - where the real bonus is. So I'd rather have him as a DM at the moment, not because he's bad going forward, but because I think we have better options on that front. And I'm afraid he wouldn't make my best XI as Fabinho has been superb; well, at least not on a trio with Gini, perhaps with a different third midfielder.

      I think this is a good assessment. If Henderson and Fabinho play then someone like Keita or Shaqiri must also play to add an attacking edge.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6827: Mar 06, 2019 07:15:14 am
      I think this is a good assessment. If Henderson and Fabinho play then someone like Keita or Shaqiri must also play to add an attacking edge.
      A lot of fans would agree with that.
      Livershrew
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6828: Mar 14, 2019 12:36:44 am
      looked a bit of a worrying one that, he has a history of foot injuries doesnt he?
      skolRED
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6829: Mar 14, 2019 11:58:01 pm
      looked a bit of a worrying one that, he has a history of foot injuries doesnt he?

      I think (not so sure about it) his major injury issue before was at his heel. This time look like at an ankle. Hopefully it's not serious one as we need him.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #6830: Mar 15, 2019 12:01:50 am
      looked a bit of a worrying one that, he has a history of foot injuries doesnt he?

      Twisted ankle wasn't it ?

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