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      Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files

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      LFCexiled
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #184: Aug 24, 2011 07:07:49 pm
      Hillsborough families say documents should go through independent panel

      Why the Hillsborough families back the documents going through an independent panel, rather than being released to the public first

      The most important point to make about the controversy over government documents relating to the 1989 Hillsborough disaster is that the issues at stake are not as substantial as they appear. A passing sight of this high-profile standoff, via Twitter or links to the e-petition which more than 127,000 people have now signed, might suggest that the government is seeking to withhold the papers which record discussions about the disaster conducted at the time by Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government.

      This is not what the government is now saying, and the Cabinet Office has emphasised that it does intend to release all the papers it holds on Hillsborough. The question being wrestled over is about how they are released. The Cabinet Office says it wants to provide them to the independent panel set up last year specifically to read, publish a report, then release to the families and public, all the Hillsborough documents. The BBC, though, has a freedom of information request which the information commissioner has said should be granted, in the public interest, and therefore the papers should simply be published immediately, bypassing the panel.

      The background is that last year, after the calls for justice on the 20th anniversary of the disaster, in which 96 people died, the Labour government committed to ensuring that all public documents relating to Hillsborough should be released. These are held by the government, South Yorkshire police (which holds the vast bulk of the archive), Sheffield city council, the ambulance service and several other public bodies. Sheffield Wednesday Football Club, whose Hillsborough stadium was found to be unsafe in key, hideous aspects, is also understood to be making its papers available.

      This disclosure is a huge breakthrough in the families' long campaign for the unvarnished truth, prompted by two Merseyside MPs and the then ministers Andy Burnham and Maria Eagle. But the Hillsborough Family Support Group, which represents the majority of the bereaved families, came quickly to believe, along with Burnham, Eagle and the public bodies involved, that some kind of process was required to make sense of the outpouring of documents. That is why the independent panel was set up, precisely to reach a clearer understanding of the documents' significance, and, critically, to share them with the families first, before releasing them to the wider public, which it has a duty to do.

      For 22 years the families have argued that they have never discovered the full truth about the disaster and how their loved ones died, and they accuse South Yorkshire police of attempting to cover up its own culpability, possibly with the approval of Thatcher and her government.

      The families have always pointed to Thatcher's visit to Hillsborough the day after the disaster, 16 April 1989, when she was briefed by the then South Yorkshire police chief constable, Peter Wright. The police case, to Lord Justice Taylor's subsequent inquiry and the coroner's inquest, was that the disaster was caused by misbehaving and drunk Liverpool fans, many arriving late and without tickets. Taylor rejected that completely, laid the blame firmly on police mismanagement of the crowd – together with the unsafe ground, which was not properly overseen by the council – and he criticised the police for presenting the story of fans' misbehaviour. Despite that, Thatcher's press secretary, Bernard Ingham, who went with her to Hillsborough, maintained a view that the disaster was caused by, as he put it, "a tanked up mob" of Liverpool fans. That led families, survivors of the disaster and supporters to believe that he and Thatcher must have been told that version of events during their visit, and so would have been more sympathetic to the police's conduct of its case through the legal processes which followed.

      So the discussions held by the Thatcher government, and any record of them, are potentially very significant to being able finally to tell the fullest possible story, based on the documentation, of Hillsborough and its aftermath.

      The families came to the view that they needed an independent group of experts, whom they could trust, to see and read the documentation and produce a report, giving its view of how it adds to public understanding of the disaster. As much of the documentation will be heartbreaking in its detail, showing how their own loved ones died, the families were insistent they should see them first, before they were released to the public.

      So, in a way, the debate about how the cabinet papers should be released has already been had, and the conclusion, agreed by the HFSG, is that, as with all the documentation, the independent panel should see them first.

      The BBC's FOI request, which was made before the panel was set up, in some ways now only tests this process. The information commissioner has ruled that the cabinet papers should be released. The Cabinet Office is not arguing that they should not, only that they should be released to the panel, rather than directly to the public.

      Margaret Aspinall, the chair of the HFSG, whose son, James, died at Hillsborough, agrees with that, saying:

         "We want full disclosure of all documents, with no redactions, for the families, for survivors, who we must not forget suffered greatly at Hillsborough, and for supporters. We are humbled that so many people are supporting us, and have signed the e-petition. But although we are cautious given our experience over 22 years, we do trust the panel and maintain that the papers be released to the panel first, so they can be put into context, and then shown to the families, before then being released to the wider public."

      The make-up of the panel and its terms of reference were agreed last year after long negotiations. Chaired by the bishop of Liverpool, James Jones, the panel's members include medical and police experts and, crucial to the HFSG's confidence in it, professor Phil Scraton, author of Hillsborough: The Truth, who first uncovered the process by which the South Yorkshire police had junior officers' statements systematically changed before going to the Taylor inquiry. He emphasised the panel's duty to secure the full release of all papers relating to Hillsborough:

          "The panel is not a gatekeeper. Our role is not to determine what is or is not published, our responsibility is full public disclosure. Our role is not to filter information but to secure access to documents that otherwise would have been restricted for years to come. We are engaged in an unprecedented process and our priorities are the families, the survivors and the broader public interest."

      The BBC has argued its FOI request should be granted because more of the documents will come out. The corporation's FOI specialist, Martin Rosenbaum, has pointed to the panel's terms of reference, which potentially exclude from publication some cabinet papers – those which could undermine the government principle of collective cabinet responsibility, which is that all members of a cabinet stand together behind a decision made.

      However the Cabinet Office has said it recognises the information commissioner's view that there is an overriding public interest in these papers being released, which means it will not seek to withhold papers from the panel on those grounds or tell the panel not to publish them.

      In that sense, the BBC's FOI request has helped greatly; it has concentrated minds and looks to have ensured that the government will not seek to withhold any papers. However the government's argument, which is supported by the HFSG, remains that it should happen via the independent panel. It was set up precisely because the families feared they would be overwhelmed by documents suddenly published, struggle to make proper, coherent sense of the story for which they have now waited 22 years, and not have the dignity of seeing the material first.

      That is why they are prepared to wait a little longer for the papers from the Thatcher government, even though they have for so long believed that the government stood behind the police case to the legal procedures, which caused such pain. What remains to be seen, though, is whether the discussions Thatcher, Ingham and Peter Wright held were documented in detail at all, and whether these papers, whose process of disclosure has caused a storm for a fortnight, turn out to contain much of the missing truths which the families seek.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2011/aug/24/hillsborough-documents-independent-panel
      waltonl4
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #185: Aug 24, 2011 09:19:14 pm
      If this or any other Government wants an open honest society they have to stop hiding the truth in this matter and others where the Public are involved. Once the bueaurocratic machine kicks in it seems no-one is in a postion to make a decision and decades go by before someone at last see's the folly of the situation. There is a story going around now that the documents will be released let us all hope they are and let us hope the truth brings some relief to those still affected by the disaster.
      whyohwhyohwhy
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #186: Aug 24, 2011 09:53:09 pm
      Some feedback on the petition:

      e-petition

      Full disclosure of all government documents relating to 1989 Hillsborough disaster

      Responsible department: Home Office

      Full government disclosure and publication of all documents, discussions and reports relating to the 1989 Hillsborough disater. *As requested by information commissioner Christopher Graham*

      This e-petition has received the following response:

      This e-petition has reached 100,000 signatures. The Government has notified the Backbench Business Committee in the House of Commons who will consider its suitability for debate when Parliament returns in September. This e-petition will remain live, and people will be able to continue adding their signatures.

      In the meantime, we would like to update you on the Government’s current position on the substance of this e-petition:

      The Government has confirmed its commitment to full transparency about the Hillsborough disaster through full public disclosure. All papers had previously been shared with the Hillsborough Independent Panel. The Government is happy for all the papers, including Cabinet papers, to be released as soon as the Panel so decides, in consultation with the families. We expect them to be shared with the Hillsborough families first and then to the wider public.

      Sign this petition

      Number of signatures: 130,533

      Created by: Brian Irvine

      Closing: 09/08/2012


      http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2199
      LFCexiled
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #187: Aug 24, 2011 10:10:40 pm
      Hillsborough disaster cabinet papers to be released

      E-petition with more than 125,000 signatures forces government to clarify position over whether documents will be made public

      The government has promised to release all cabinet papers relating to the 1989 Hillsborough disaster to the public once they have been shared with families of the deceased, after being forced to clarify its position by an e-petition that has reached more than 125,000 signatures.

      The clarification of the government's position, after it opted to appeal against a ruling by the information commissioner that the papers should be released to the BBC under Freedom of Information legislation, was welcomed by the Hillsborough Independent Panel (HIP), set up to examine the full circumstances surrounding the disaster in which 96 Liverpool supporters died at an FA Cup semi final. It is due to report next spring.

      The cabinet papers are seen as potentially significant in revealing the approach taken by the Thatcher administration to the disaster. A Cabinet Office spokesman said: "The government has confirmed its commitment to full transparency about the Hillsborough disaster through full public disclosure. All papers had previously been shared with the Hillsborough Independent Panel.

      "The government is happy for all the papers to be released as soon as the panel so decides, in consultation with the families. We expect them to be shared with the Hillsborough families first and then to the wider public."

      A spokesman for the panel, chaired by the bishop of Liverpool, James Jones, and set up by the Labour government in response to longstanding calls to uncover the full causes and consequences of the disaster, said: "The HIP welcomes the government's commitment to publish all relevant documents to the panel.

      "The response to the petition shows the strength of public feeling about the Hillsborough disaster. The panel is accessing and researching hundreds of thousands of documents and other materials relating to the context, circumstances and aftermath of the disaster. It is the intention of the panel to publish all documents simultaneously."

      Margaret Aspinall, chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, said: "We want full disclosure of all documents, with no redactions, for the families, for survivors, who we must not forget suffered greatly at Hillsborough, and for supporters. We are humbled that so many people are supporting us, and have signed the e-petition.

      "But although we are cautious given our experience over 22 years, we do trust the panel and maintain that the papers be released to the panel first, so they can be put into context, and then shown to the families, before then being released to the wider public."

      Once the e-petition reached more than 100,000 signatures, encouraged by a Twitter campaign by footballers and celebrities, the government was obliged to respond and forward it to the backbench business committee for consideration for parliamentary debate.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/24/cabinet-papers-hillsborough-disaster-released
      whyohwhyohwhy
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #188: Aug 24, 2011 10:20:55 pm
      Good news!  Lets hope the release happens really quickly for the families.
      stuey
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #189: Aug 24, 2011 10:48:07 pm
      Disaster papers 'to be released.' 

      The government has reiterated it's "commitment to total transparency" over the release of Cabinet papers relating to the Hillsborough disaster.

      An online petition has attracted more than 100,000 signatures, enough for a parliamentary debate to be considered.

      But the government has insisted that the papers be released first to the panel which is examining the disaster.

      Labour MP Andy Burnham said he would push for a parliamentary debate.
      MIRO
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #190: Aug 25, 2011 12:42:34 am
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8721139/Government-will-not-block-release-of-Hillsborough-papers.html

      ABSOLUTE GUARANTEE OF RELEASE OF PAPERS

      By Peter Hutchison

      10:43PM BST 24 Aug 2011


      A spokesman for the Cabinet Office said last night that it was “absolutely guaranteed” that all papers the Hillsborough Independent Panel wants released to the public will be.

      The Government acted after an online petition calling for the publication of all documents relating to the disaster in which 96 Liverpool football supporters died gained more than 125,000 signatures. However, the documents will not be released directly to the public as the Information Commissioner ruled last month.

      In a statement, a Cabinet Office spokesman said: “The Government has confirmed its commitment to full transparency about the Hillsborough disaster through full public disclosure.

      “All papers had previously been shared with the Hillsborough Independent Panel. The Government is happy for all the papers to be released as soon as the panel so decides, in consultation with the families.

      “We expect them to be shared with the Hillsborough families first and then to the wider public.”

      It is understood that the panel, which was set up in 2009 to study previously secret documents relating to the tragedy, may put forward its recommendations on which papers should be released next spring.

      The seven-member panel, chaired by the Bishop of Liverpool, the Rt Rev James Jones, is overseeing the public disclosure of archives held by the emergency services, Sheffield city council and other public bodies in the city.

      A spokesman said it would still appeal against the ruling of Christopher Graham, the Information Commissioner, that the papers should now be made public.

      The spokesman said it wanted them to be released in an ordered way, first to the victims’ families and then the media.

      The fans died at the stadium in Sheffield on April 15, 1989, during an FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest.

      An inquiry led by Lord Taylor of Gosforth concluded that the main reason for overcrowding was the failure of police control.

      The footballer Joey Barton led a campaign on the social networking website Twitter which swelled the number of

      supporters to the online petition and added to the calls for the release of all documents about Margaret Thatcher’s discussions on the tragedy.

      Victims’ families have suggested that Mrs Thatcher may have tried to protect the police over failings that day.


      ayrton77
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #191: Aug 25, 2011 05:28:43 am
      Come on then!

      Stop saying and guaranteeing the documents will be released, and just get on with it.
      stuey
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #192: Aug 25, 2011 08:01:53 am
      "Commited to total transparency" the lying bas**rds say, it has taken 22 F***ing years of obfuscation and profound moral corruption which itself required a degree of commitment to get to this unholy statement.
      The only reason any statement was forthcoming is the campaigning pressure over all those years by the dedicated pressure groups, take no notice of the bullshit forced concessions and keep signing the petition let's bury these evil bas**rds and let justice prevail.    
      waltonl4
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #193: Aug 25, 2011 11:54:14 am
      I hope you include Labour in the "evil bas**rds" mould.To have a Labour government hide these files away from the very people who continually put it into power is a disgrace. The Conservtives have no time for Liverpool thats well known but 13 years of Labour in power did nothing for the campaign.Andy Burnham should keep his mouth shut too little to late in my opinion.
      TKIDLLTK
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #194: Aug 25, 2011 11:54:42 am
      Pressure it building, the truth will come out.  Hope nothing is redacted.
      racerx34
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #195: Aug 25, 2011 12:05:23 pm
      Number of signatures:
      131,978
      Created by:
      Brian Irvine
      Closing:
      09/08/2012

      Still a year to push for another 100,000.
      What an achievement in the timeframe achieved
      finchie
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #196: Aug 25, 2011 12:11:18 pm
      I hope you include Labour in the "evil bas**rds" mould.To have a Labour government hide these files away from the very people who continually put it into power is a disgrace. The Conservtives have no time for Liverpool thats well known but 13 years of Labour in power did nothing for the campaign.Andy Burnham should keep his mouth shut too little to late in my opinion.
      Well said! It's time people realise there is little difference between the parties. Democratic choice is a joke.
      Recent statements are good news but I do wonder how busy the shredders at Downing St are at the moment.
      stuey
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #197: Aug 25, 2011 01:30:28 pm
      The picture of the F***ing witch Thatcher walking on the terraces at Hillsborough immediately after the horror with the high ranking police who she backed implicitly is spine chilling, talk all day about subsequent governments but this was the establishment personified doing what it does best.
      She and her accomplices set the lies in stone and they were then buried in bureacracy with the proviso that nothing could be revealed for xxx years.
      As previously stated the only reason for the disclosure is the relentless pressure and more recently the breathtaking disclosures involving police, media and government corruption on a scale never seen before.
      The F***ing liars have been forced into a corner and will sacrifice their supposed hero's to save their own skin.
      Dadorious
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #198: Aug 25, 2011 03:12:32 pm
      A very proud red of all who signed.
      stuey
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #199: Aug 25, 2011 04:49:23 pm
      A very proud red of all who signed.
      This.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
      • Guest
      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #200: Aug 25, 2011 05:21:25 pm
      I hope you include Labour in the "evil bas**rds" mould.To have a Labour government hide these files away from the very people who continually put it into power is a disgrace. The Conservtives have no time for Liverpool thats well known but 13 years of Labour in power did nothing for the campaign.Andy Burnham should keep his mouth shut too little to late in my opinion.

      Damn straight. Bent lying fuckers the both of them. When Labour came in in 1997 I'm sure the families expected and hoped for great progress but we got the same desperate to cover up operation from the shysters. I wouldn't be too hard on Andy Burnham though. I do feel he's got a lot of integrity and genuinely wants the best for the families.
      stuey
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #201: Aug 25, 2011 07:05:47 pm
      As stated the witch Thatcher instigated the lies and by an act of parliament kept them hid until their premature forced release now.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #202: Aug 25, 2011 08:33:41 pm
      Come on then!

      Stop saying and guaranteeing the documents will be released, and just get on with it.

      All they have said is they will release them. I don't think they have said when.

      This is worrying.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #203: Aug 25, 2011 08:54:49 pm
      As stated the witch Thatcher instigated the lies and by an act of parliament kept them hid until their premature forced release now.
      You can characterise Thatcher as a witch but at least she was true to the people who voted her in that cannot be said of Labour who incidentally had huge majority Governments and could have done anything thay wanted to.
      the WHOLE of the Parliamentry system callouded to prevent information being released thats 600 or more of them.
      Having Burnham now spout off is hypocricy of the highest order.
      My only wish is that after all this time the information will prove to be "The Truth" everyone is hoping for.
      the truth is what we all want is the leading Policemen to be charged .But thats never going to happen.
      LFCexiled
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #204: Aug 25, 2011 09:02:36 pm
      Let's all agree that all political parties are guilty of not fighting for this to be resolved and leave it at that.

      Untrustworthy is a label a politician should have to wear until they prove otherwise.
      stuey
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #205: Aug 25, 2011 09:31:24 pm
      All they have said is they will release them. I don't think they have said when.

      This is worrying.
      From what is inferred the papers will be released to the Hillsborough panel ie the families and later given a public forum.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Govt ordered to release Hillsborough files
      Reply #206: Aug 25, 2011 09:34:37 pm
      From what is inferred the papers will be released to the Hillsborough panel ie the families and later given a public forum.

      Cheers.

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