The referee appraisal thread

A thread to track refereeing decisions that go against us (and the odd one that might go our way)

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LFC vs Sunderland, 13th August 2011.

Generally he was too whistle-happy but Phil Dowd made two shocking decisions against us yesterday:

1. In the opening few minutes, he did not give a red card for Richardson's trip on Suarez that denied a clear goal scoring opportunity.
2. Disallowed a legitimate goal scored by Andy Carroll, that would have made it 2-0.  The ref ruled a push by Carroll when there was the slightest of contacts, as Ferdinand just miss judged the flight of the ball.

Our second half performance was poor, but it is safe to say that these two decisions definitely cost us 2 points yesterday.

Cumulative points lost = 2pts

Don't think this thread will work... Carroll did push him, quite clearly. I'd rather focus on our own merits rather than blaming referees for results. I hate hearing people slagging refs off... They make mistakes all the time, but often decisions go our way too (e.g. Suarez handled before the penalty).

Don't think this thread will work... Carroll did push him, quite clearly. I'd rather focus on our own merits rather than blaming referees for results. I hate hearing people slagging refs off... They make mistakes all the time, but often decisions go our way too (e.g. Suarez handled before the penalty).

You can argue the Carroll one, his hand brushed Ferdinand's back, but it was too slight a touch to count as a push in my view.  I'd say the same if Rooney did that to Agger, I'd be focusing on the defender.  

As for the 'handball' it was smacked at his face and he protected it, it was not handball - just like the Wes Brown one.

There can be no argument about the red card, he was not running away from goal as Dowd said, it was a clear goal scoring chance, it was a red and Dowd bottled it so early on.

I did say we played poorly, but those two decisions certainly cost us.

I just hope all the decisions that go in our favour are logged too, hate this to become a ref slagging thread.  For example, Carragher's booking was late & studs up, could easily be interpreted as a red.

Thought the ref didn't do us any favours but I can see his interpretation of each event and at least understand it. In other words I don't think he was biased against us, even though I do believe Suarez would have scored but it wasn't 100% guaranteed, looked like he'd just slot it under the diving keeper to me but debatable.

Carroll did push Ferdinand, you can see him move in the air so it wasn't as slight as many are trying to make out, enough to make him miss the ball completely I'm not sure, think he misjudged the flight of it personally and if the situation was reversed no way do I see that as a penalty so I can see both sides of this argument too.

Thought Carra could of been dealt with even harsher than he was with the Gyan challenge in the centre circle, he claims he was going for the ball, when I watched it again the ball was nowhere near where he ended up burying his studs into Gyan.

So overall the ref did alright in a tough game to ref, not a fan of him, far too card happy for me but there you go. As others have said though I don't like to lay blame at the ref for our poor performance in the second half. Let's dust ourselves off and come out against the Arsenal much fitter and get a win as I do believe it's a massive game for us and an ideal time to play them.

I just hope all the decisions that go in our favour are logged too, hate this to become a ref slagging thread.  For example, Carragher's booking was late & studs up, could easily be interpreted as a red.

I will, if there are any... I can't think of many recently. Ngog dive, Sunderland free kick last year, Carra on Nani, but few others. Will log them here to keep track, of course. Carra foul was a definite yellow, never a red. Flanagan could have been booked, that was the only one in our favour, minor decision.

I will, if there are any... I can't think of many recently. Ngog dive, Sunderland free kick last year, Carra on Nani, but few others. Will log them here to keep track, of course. Carra foul was a definite yellow, never a red. Flanagan could have been booked, that was the only one in our favour, minor decision.

That's where I disagree, late & studs up = dangerous tackle, which is a red.  It's very short-sighted, almost bitter , if you think we don't get decisions for us.  But refs will make mistakes and I expect a few each game.  If only one or two ref mistakes costs us points, then maybe we should be looking at the players more.

That's where I disagree, late & studs up = dangerous tackle, which is a red. 

Agreed, we got lucky on that one.

That's where I disagree, late & studs up = dangerous tackle, which is a red.  It's very short-sighted, almost bitter , if you think we don't get decisions for us.  But refs will make mistakes and I expect a few each game.  If only one or two ref mistakes costs us points, then maybe we should be looking at the players more.

he was still in control though, as he didn't have both feet off the ground - probably the only thing that saved him.

Ignoring past seasons decisions, are we only commenting on our games or can we comment on other games.  Poor decisions in our rivals games will affect us too, so today, a couple went our way, Chelski had a couple of penalty shouts that looked decent, the one on traitor on the edge of the box, ref was unsighted, excellent positioning by Stoke players , and the Lampard one just after traitor did an air kick and dramatically fell on his arse.  No penalties and Chelski ended up goalless.

As far as our game yesterday, I thought Carra deserved a yellow card, it wasn't two footed, so a red would have been harsh.  Stupid challenge though, and another ref might have seen it differently.  Flanno should have seen a yellow.  Richardson should have been sent off, he was the last man and his foul stopped a clear goal scoring opportunity as Suarez had rounded the keeper.  The decision to disallow Carroll's goal was wrong in my opinion.  Ferdinand went down far too easily and he conned Dowd.

As far as our game yesterday, I thought Carra deserved a yellow card, it wasn't two footed, so a red would have been harsh.  Stupid challenge though, and another ref might have seen it differently.  Flanno should have seen a yellow.  Richardson should have been sent off, he was the last man and his foul stopped a clear goal scoring opportunity as Suarez had rounded the keeper.  The decision to disallow Carroll's goal was wrong in my opinion.  Ferdinand went down far too easily and he conned Dowd.

It doesn't have to be two-footed to be a red card though, late & studs up is enough, the way Carragher reacted, I think he was relieved to get a yellow.  As for Carroll's 'goal', I believe it should have stood, but it's the same thing we used to see when crouch played for us, the opposition going down at the slightest touch and winning a free kick, much like Alonso used to win cheap free kicks for us as well.

Reffing standards are simply awfull!!

It doesn't have to be two-footed to be a red card though, late & studs up is enough, the way Carragher reacted, I think he was relieved to get a yellow.  As for Carroll's 'goal', I believe it should have stood, but it's the same thing we used to see when crouch played for us, the opposition going down at the slightest touch and winning a free kick, much like Alonso used to win cheap free kicks for us as well.

Fairy nuff, we were lucky that Carra didn't see red then.  Possibly influenced by Dowd not sending Richardson off?

Ooh, those pesky referees are out to get us again!

Forget about the ref, he is just doing his job, and there is no game without him. On his performance yesterday, while he was far from perfect, he was probably one of the more competent performers on the field.

Ooh, those pesky referees are out to get us again!

Not to start a conspiracy, but I'm starting to believe they travel in UFO's, shot Kennedy & were responsible for 9/11.  Christ, some of 'us' are so sure Refs are out to get us, they're starting to sound like bitters.

Not to start a conspiracy, but I'm starting to believe they travel in UFO's, shot Kennedy & were responsible for 9/11.  Christ, some of 'us' are so sure Refs are out to get us, they're starting to sound like bitters.

Hmmmm you could be on to something there mate... I mean it all fits!

And yes, precisely.

I'm not going to criticise Dowd for the two debatable decisions but I will criticise him for being too trigger happy on the whistle. It kills the game for both sides when the referee does this which is a real shame for the fans. Generally though I think Dowd is a good referee.

This isn't alluding to Dowd at all but on the subject of referees, and this is a very Italian point of view, but some referees do like to be the centre of attention because they feel they have power where they couldn't get this at any other point in their lives.

You do wonder if that is what motivates some of them to take up refereeing in the first place.

^ Agreed.

I don't think yesterday's game was an 8-card game at all.

This thread could get messy but would be interesting to see at the end of the season if done correctly.

Few on here already getting behind refs and putting things from yesterday into perspective but its their in-ability to get the big decisions right that pisses me off. I don't care how anybody tries to dress it up but in accordance with the rules of the game Richardson should of been off and no F***ing way was that a push by Carroll.

Also it gets me how the majority of refs get the yellows out as soon as they see a mis-timed tackle,the genuine attempts for the ball, and then have to get a yellow out for every other bit of contact made because they gave the first one within 5 minutes of the kick off.

Yeah they've got a hard job but so have I and if my make mistakes I have to stand accounted for those mistakes and explain it to anybody who is affected.
 
Make them accountable for their mistakes and have them explain them on live TV to the people who are affected after a game ie - the fans. Then they might get a bit of this 'respect' that they so, so crave and we might see a few more refs tone down the on-field arrogance and realise that they aren't the ones we all came to see on the day.

Respect is not something that you are just given you have to earn it.

Rant over.

Football is a contact sport. If I had my way I would only pull up players for dangerous passages of play. All this "he pushed me" going down like a sack of sh*t is just one other reason why people are so disconnected from footballers today. They get paid millions a year yet need the softest of protection these days and referees are partly to blame for that.

Football is a contact sport. If I had my way I would only pull up players for dangerous passages of play. All this "he pushed me" going down like a sack of sh*t is just one other reason why people are so disconnected from footballers today. They get paid millions a year yet need the softest of protection these days and referees are partly to blame for that.

The laws of the game are responsible, as well as players 'requesting' more protection.  Footballers cheating & feigning injury/contact have a part to play as well.  People expecting refs to get every decision right s a huge problem as well.

I'm getting in early, Howard Webb is a bellend.

I know the ref has a hard job, but the red card on Richardson was a no brainer, straight red, no questions, no-one could have argued with it.  The Carroll goal was the wrong decision in my view, but at least there is room for discussion on that one.

I feel sorry for the ref, it is difficult but that doesn't make their decisions any better, or the pain of losing two points any easier to take.  I don't think they are biased deliberately, just subconsciously - Fergie is the master at playing them and getting an unfair advantage.  Giving each manager three appeals to a video ref would surely make their lives easier and ensure more decisions are made correctly.  Had Kenny appealed that to the video, you'd have to say that an official away from the action could make a more objective, rational decision than the ref who may be 80 yards away from the play and then surrounded by players. 

I wanted to start this thread just to keep track of what happens with referees this year, just to see whether we are hard done by or not.  There is the perception that we are, I can think of many examples of big decisions that have gone against us and very few in our favour - is that human bias? or are we hard done by? That is what I want to track.