Full disclosure of all government documents relating to Hillsborough

Riots: MPs fail to push for e-petition debate

An e-petition calling for benefits to be removed from people convicted of rioting will not be discussed by MPs for at least a month.

The petition - along with one demanding the release of papers relating to the Hillsborough Stadium disaster - gained more than 100,000 signatures, which means it can be debated in the Commons.

But no MP called for the demands to be discussed during a meeting on Tuesday.

This means the petitions cannot be debated until early October.

The government launched its e-petitions site last month, promising that those which pass the 100,000-signature mark should at least be considered for a Commons debate.

Following riots in many English cities, a petition demanding that those convicted of taking part lose "all benefits" rapidly gained support, making it the first to reach the threshold.

A petition calling for the release of cabinet papers relating to the 1989 Hillsborough disaster - in which 96 Liverpool FC fans died - also gathered the required backing.

The Backbench Business Committee discussed subjects for Commons debate on the next available date - 15 September - at its meeting. But no MP spoke in favour of debating the petitioners' demands, meaning they cannot be included.

Instead discussions will either focus on defence, the fishing industry, Kashmir or food security.

There are no more available dates for backbench MP-led discussions until after the three-week party conference season, which ends on 5 October.

The committee, which controls 35 days of Commons business a year, can only schedule a debate when an MP requests it.

It argues that this is not enough time and that priority should be given to topics of interest suggested by backbenchers.

The government is responsible of the rest of the parliamentary timetable.

The committee is currently coming up with a formal procedure for deciding when popular e-petitions should be discussed.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14810216

Just heard this on Radio Merseyside, before.

Apparently they're prefering to debate the fishing F***ing industry.

Joke.

The response to the e-petition was overwhelming with about 140,000 people signing it in just a few weeks. Passing the 100,000 mark meant that the Government notified the backbench business committee that this issue was eligible to be considered for debate.

We are on the cusp of finally being able to get our hands on the documentation that we have craved for two decades, but we must not allow parliamentary procedure to be a blocking mechanism that could prevent a debate in the House of Commons and that is why we are being extremely careful to follow the correct procedure.

In order to secure a debate, we need cross-party support which I am delighted to say we have but we also need MP’s to come forward and speak at the backbench business committee, which again, I have secured. However, given parliament has only resumed a little more than 24 hours ago, the scheduled sessions for us to make our case to the committee was earmarked as next Tuesday 13th September 2011. That way, we can ensure as many MPs are able to attend the meeting, make their point and strengthen our chance of securing a debate.

We have a powerful argument in place and we have the voices of thousands of people across the country on our side, but we must get this right. We’ve waited 22 years for these files, we can wait until next Tuesday for the committee.

The situation is under control and Parliament will know, next Tuesday, in no uncertain terms, that the country is demanding a debate.

Best wishes,

Steve

Steve Rotheram MP.

MP's, the voice of the people, my arse. Obviously they don't give a damn, not one of them could be bothered to raise this issue.

Can't wait for the next General Election. Going to give those canvassers a dogs life.

James Lawton: Will anyone ever have the conscience to apologise for what happened at Hillsborough?

If you happened to be at Hillsborough, if you saw how inevitable the tragedy became, this distortion of reality is a freshly revived horror.

It is not a tidal wave because what is provoking it happened 22 years ago and, however monstrous an outrage, the business of day-by-day living inevitably dissipates even the hardest of pain and anger.


Yet if all those from Prime Minister-level down who have been seeking to cover up the true cause of disaster all these years, who have bombarded the grieving with evasions and bromides and – as in the case of a letter from the Chief Constable of South Yorkshire to this newspaper yesterday – non sequiturs, haven't known it before, surely they do now.

Hillsborough is not going to go away. It is not destined to subside beneath the weight of government stalling or still another round of police doubletalk.

More than the required 100,000 have now petitioned for a parliamentary debate and who can say it is not the least that is due to the 96 innocent people who died in April 1989?

Probably not Meredydd Hughes, head of the police force in which not one member has been required to atone in any way other than vapid, non-incriminating regret, for the command inexperience and incompetence which turned a football ground into a killing field. He urges us to wait patiently for the outcome of the Hillsborough Independent Panel.

He also explains that his decision two years ago to release police archives containing their version of affairs was provoked by the kind of issues raised by two other items of reader correspondence in The Independent over the last few days.

One was from the father of a victim who was sent from the temporary mortuary, where his dead son lay, on a search of neighbouring hospitals. The other was from someone who, having experienced with his alarmed wife and her friend unruly scenes outside the ground, and some rocking of the bus in which they sat, wondered whether "it is time the mob outside the ground took at least some of the blame for subsequent events."

If you happened to be at Hillsborough that evil day, if you saw how inevitable the tragedy became, if you saw groups of unengaged police officers talking among themselves as behind them a fearful crush built at the gates of the Leppings Lane entrance, if you had been told, as matter of unremarkable fact, that the only safe way to enter the ground was to walk around to the other end, and if you eventually sat down overwhelmed by the powerless conviction that people were certain to die, this last distortion of reality is a freshly revived horror.

This is especially so if you were able to walk on to the field and see the desperate, untutored rescue attempts of those who would later be accused of stealing from and urinating on the dead.

No one has ever said that there wasn't some rough behaviour by some Liverpool fans – but then no one who was there, and had eyes unveiled by vested interest, has ever begun to believe that the tragedy would not have been averted if those entrusted with the care of the people had done their jobs properly.

That, when you get right down to it, is the central conclusion of the Taylor report, which also noted that the end of Hillsborough where the tragedy occurred did not carry a safety certificate for the very good reason that it was so evidently a death trap waiting to be sprung.

One of the phrases you hear most often is that, with the enforcement of safety recommendations made by Lord Taylor, "no useful purpose" would be served by the most probing of inquiries.

A similar argument is advanced for the Cabinet Office appeal against public revelation of reports presented to the then Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, correspondence between her office and that of Home Secretary, Douglas Hurd, and the minutes of the meetings she attended.

There is, though, a useful purpose. It is one of a proper accounting of an affair that goes to the very heart of social responsibility. Certainly, it was guaranteed to shatter a belief in decency not only in the relatives and friends of the victims but anyone who was there to witness it and who consequently did not have to rely on the poisonously confected versions that should still shame all those who inspired them and bought them and prosecuted them as if they held any semblance of the truth.

Mrs Thatcher arrived at Hillsborough the following morning, bearing flowers and platitudes and, yes, it is right that we know, the reality that may or not have been the basis of her public pronouncements.

The chief constable also said: "I strongly urge commentators to await the work of the Hillsborough Independent Panel. Under the leadership of Bishop James of Liverpool, I am confident it will set the documents in a perspective that is helpful to understanding events, and in a manner that respects the victims."

This is not a matter of commentary but witness. If it is evident enough, you do not interpret what is truth and what is a lie. You see it and you know it, in your mind and in your guts, and if the consequences were as grave as they were at Hillsborough it is going to take a lot longer than 22 years to forget.

If you want someone to explain a scripture or an aspect of moral or canon law, no doubt the Bishop of Liverpool is the man. But not on Hillsborough, not if you were there, not if you saw how many people were so carelessly sent to their deaths – and especially not if you still have to wonder if anyone will ever have either the nerve or the conscience to say sorry.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/james-lawton-will-anyone-ever-have-the-conscience-to-apologise-for-what-happened-at-hillsborough-2349829.html

Half day debate in Parliament on Hillsborough agreed for Monday, October 17

Just been announced on SSN and Steve Rotherham has been tweeting also.

I just hope every single MP is properly briefed before going into that debate and doesn't come out with the kind of lies we've endured for 22 years.

Dan Roan
Breaking: Parliament will debate the release of the Hillsborough files for the first time in 13 years on Oct 17th in the Chamber

Hillsborough debate date set

E-petition signed by over 140,000 people is being taken seriously

A House of Commons debate on the full release of government papers related to the Hillsborough disaster in which 96 people died will be held on October 17.

Members of Parliament have agreed to stage the debate in response to an e-petition on the Downing Street website that has now been signed by more than 140,000 people, many of whom are fans of clubs other than Liverpool.

Britain's Prime Minister David Cameron had said that any e-petition on the website that receives more than 100,000 signatories should be considered for debate by MPs.
Date confirmed

Liverpool Walton MP Steve Rotheram, who has been a driving force behind the campaign, revealed the news of a date on Twitter, saying: "Confirmation: Hillsborough debate agreed - October 17 for half a day in the House of Commons Chamber with a vote on the motion if necessary.

"Let's not get carried away. We have secured a HoC (House of Commons) debate, but this is not the end of the fight. Thanks to Merseyside MPs, Andy Burnham and others."

Rotheram enthused further on the support of the people on the campaign when he presented the application for a parliamentary debate to the Backbench Business Committee on Tuesday.

"This is an issue that will not go away until there is justice for the 96," he said. "Within two weeks the e-petition had acquired well over the 100,000 signatures required. The campaign spread far and wide.

"People from all over this country and people of all different football and political persuasions, came together and said, finally, after 22 years, enough is enough."
Right decision

The Hillsborough Justice Campaign (HJC) welcomed the decision, with chairman Kenny Derbyshire saying: "We would like to thank those MPs who turned up in support of the recent e-petition.

"They have made the right decision in moving this forward to be debated in the House. However, we would like to thank those people who made this possible.

"This turn of events would not be occurring were it not for the overwhelming support of the general public who signed the e-petition, which resulted in more than 100,000 signatures in less than a week.

"They alone should take credit for this; a great example of people power succeeding.

"Whilst pleased with today's outcome, the bereaved families of the HJC point out that they still strongly oppose the Government's decision to appeal the Commissioner's ruling and request again that the Government withdraw the appeal.

"The families of the Hillsborough Justice Campaign want the minutes of the cabinet meeting held under Margaret Thatcher to be released (without redaction) in accordance with the Freedom of Information Act and as deemed by the Information Commissioner to be in the 'public interest'.

"The families can see no logical reason why this should be at variance with the work of the Hillsborough Panel."

Ministers have so far failed to officially support calls for all the reports about the 1989 tragedyto be made public.

However, it is hoped that next month's debate will help persuade the government to waive the 30-year rule and allow the papers' release to the families of the victims.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_7174790,00.html

Shadow Education Secretary Andy Burnham has urged Labour conference delegates to back the Hillsborough families in their bid to see documents relating to the disaster.
 
A commons debate will take place next month after in excess of 100,000 people backed a petition to the Home Office website for the files to be released

The MP told the conference in Liverpool he felt passionately about the subject.

He said the city had "borne the deepest scars immaginable".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-15101388

Hopefully there will be enough weight behind this to stop even the slightest redaction / cover-up

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/8830722/Hillsborough-disaster-David-Cameron-pledges-full-disclosure-of-Cabinet-minutes.html

Hillsborough disaster: David Cameron pledges full disclosure of Cabinet minutes
Government documents relating to the Hillsborough disaster are to be made public after 22 years, David Cameron has promised.

By Anita Singh

7:00AM BST 17 Oct 2011

CommentsComment

The Prime Minister has agreed to release all material, including key Cabinet minutes, following years of campaigning by relatives of the 96 Liverpool fans who died.

More than 100,000 people signed an online petition calling for full disclosure of the documents.

The families are particularly keen to learn about briefings that South Yorkshire Police gave to Margaret Thatcher a day after the 1989 tragedy.

The victims died in a crush at Sheffield Wednesday’s Hillsborough stadium, where Liverpool were playing Nottingham Forest in the FA Cup semi-final. Relatives of the dead believe Downing Street colluded with police to pin the blame for the disaster on Liverpool fans.

In a letter to Labour’s Andy Burnham, published in the Daily Mirror, Mr Cameron said: “Please let me reassure you that the Government is wholly committed to full disclosure of the Hillsborough information that it holds.

“There seems to me to be complete agreement on the need for full and public disclosure, initially to the families.”

Relatives will be shown the documents first before they are made available to all.

The news was welcomed by Margaret Aspinall, chairman of the Hillsborough Justice Campaign. She said: “It’s important that we get these Cabinet minutes. You can’t have the whole truth of Hillsborough without them and we’ve been shouting to have them released for 22 years.

“We hope all documents will be released with no censorship.”

Full disclosure of the documents will be debated by MPs in the Commons today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-15330776

Hillsborough Disaster: Commons debate after e-petition
The victims of the 1989 disaster in Sheffield were crushed in over-crowded pens Continue reading the main story
Related Stories
Hillsborough debate: Public disclosure
Hillsborough petition hits target
How the Hillsborough disaster happened
Calls for the full release of documents relating to the 1989 Hillsborough Disaster in which 96 Liverpool fans died are to be debated by MPs later.

The debate was triggered by an e-petition which gathered the support of more than 139,000 people.

Families of the victims have called for the release of 40,000 documents relating to events at the FA Cup semi-final match.

David Cameron has said he is "wholly committed" to the full public release.

The prime minister has written to shadow health secretary Andy Burnham stating that the government wants "full public disclosure".

Ninety-five supporters died on 15 April 1989 when a crush developed in the caged pens at the Leppings Lane end of the stadium, which is home to Sheffield Wednesday.

The 96th victim was in a coma for three years following the match against Nottingham Forest, and died in 1992.

In the immediate aftermath blame was attributed to various groups, most notably the fans themselves, however an inquiry under Lord Justice Taylor focussed attention on the design of football grounds and the actions of the police.

'Maximum disclosure'
 Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote
I think it's really important we let the panel show the information to the families first”
End Quote
Nick Clegg
 
Deputy Prime Minister
 The Hillsborough Family Support Group is particularly keen for details of briefings and communications involving the then prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, and South Yorkshire Police to be made public.

But previous attempts to have documents released have failed.

In 2009, the then Labour government set up the Hillsborough Independent Panel to oversee the "maximum public disclosure" of government and other agency documentation.

It is not due to complete its work until 2012.

Deputy Prime Minister and Sheffield MP Nick Clegg said he believed the Hillsborough Independent Panel should release documents to the victims' families first, ahead of public disclosure.

He told Pienaar's Politics on BBC Radio 5 Live: "All the Hillsborough papers will be made available by the government to the independent panel and the panel is completely free to release those papers as they want, when they want, to the public.

 
Liverpool fans have maintained campaigns since the disaster "I think it's really important we let the panel show the information to the families first so the stuff doesn't come out in kind of dribs and drabs, which I don't think the families on the whole would welcome.

"In terms of the actual events leading up to what happened, debates and discussion within government, that has all got to be got out there by way of the panel."

However, the e-petition calls for full disclosure without any pre-filtering.

Monday evening's debate has been welcomed by Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish, who was in his first spell in charge of the club when the disaster happened.

Earlier this year he said: "It is fantastic news for the families. I think this isn't a political issue - it is a humanitarian one, so at least common sense has prevailed."

The government introduced its e-petitions website to allow people to suggest subjects for parliamentary debate.

Campaigners who gather more than 100,000 petition signatures could have their ideas discussed in the Commons, however there is no guarantee owing to limited time slots.

The Hillsborough debate is scheduled to begin a 19:00 BST.

Great news. Live up to your name Cameron, get this sorted once and for all. JFT96

Hillsborough debate: 7-10pm tonight - Sky (504), VirginMedia (612), Freeview (81), Freesat (201). Let people know folks.

I honestly couldn't watch it for fear of putting my foot through the screen.These MP's have had  over 20 years to do the right thing and now they will all be waxing lyrical about justice and honesty it makes me sick.
Labour,Liberal or Conservative they all sh*t in the same bucket.

I'll try and watch it but as Walton says, these politicians make you sick.

Hope they don't even dare use it as a points winning type of event and just get on with getting done what should have been done a long time ago.

is that Sky channel 504 Sky news or a different channel?? Haven't got any TV at Uni, but the lads house have a few different channels.

is that Sky channel 504 Sky news or a different channel?? Haven't got any TV at Uni, but the lads house have a few different channels.

I'm not 100% sure Luis but I think its the BBC Parliament channel.

alright cheers! might just try stream it or something.

alright cheers! might just try stream it or something.

Think its on Sky and freeview.

is that Sky channel 504 Sky news or a different channel?? Haven't got any TV at Uni, but the lads house have a few different channels.

It's on here at 5.30 I think mate:

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=9133

Cheers!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8832074/Hillsborough-disaster-Commons-debate-live.html


Text Updates  from the debate