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      Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate

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      redprint
      • Forum Alan Hansen
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #782: Sep 10, 2011 11:40:25 pm
      We pissed all over Stoke today. Shocking ref decisions. Good passing and movement by us. The best team lost today. On another day we would have won by 2 or 3 goals. Ref didn't help our cause though. stoke had one shot at goal and that was an undeserved penalty. That says everything!
      lfc_ynwa
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      • In Kenny we trust. YNWA. Tits!!
      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #783: Sep 10, 2011 11:43:21 pm
      I have a Harry Potter Duvet cover on my bed Lupus, because that's where the magic happens.

      But is your wand big enough ;)

      Just watch the highlights on motd and i have no idea how they won. I reckon there won't be another game that we've dominated quite like that and end up with nothing.
      Burdogcallingbat21
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #784: Sep 10, 2011 11:53:46 pm
      We absolutely battered Stoke for long periods of that game. It was a travesty we lost that game. I for one am very confident about the future and the upcoming games. At least we are playing with ambition and courage. Stoke played accordingly and you have to give them credit for their defensive work and organisation but i wouldn't want a season ticket for the Britannia. Awful to watch. With Gerrard to come backwe will be in pretty good shape. We played splendidly today in spells without that clinical end product. How many teams go to Stoke and dominate for 80% of the game.

      Personally i dont think we have enough match winners and craft/guile and we aren't consistent enough when using the ball effectively but this is a work in progess. We won't contend the title but we'll give 4th a bloody good go and hopefully produce in the cups. i'd try and integrate Coates as soon as possible as Carragher is in steep decline. The Manchester clubs are by far the best two clubs in the country with strong offensive power and quality squads. It will take awhile to reach that level but make no mistake under Kenny's stewardship we will get their.
      whyohwhyohwhy
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #785: Sep 10, 2011 11:57:36 pm
      Just seen the highlights

      Ridiculous

      Had to give us one out of two of the penalty shouts, the first was so much more of a clear-cut penalty than theirs

      There was MINIMAL contact on theirs, he can go down and the ref will give it, it's just unsportsmanlike, gone are the days of gents like Fowler

      This is a real "if only" post but, same here.  Only really saw the last one that Suarez got a yellow for during the actual match thanks to awful streaming quality.  Seeing all three of our shouts on MOTD and Stoke's, they should all have been given.  

      I also missed the 3 Hendo chances and 2 Adam chances thanks to my stream freezing.  Bloody hell, Suarez was unmarked in the box, not that he's guaranteed to score but he looked so pissed off after the ball went out for a corner.  If only Hendo had been able to get the ball out to him after his first shot was saved.  He was surrounded by defenders and Luis was free.

      Anyway, we cant change it now, just hope we're really fired up for the spuds game.  Bring them on!
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #786: Sep 10, 2011 11:58:37 pm

      Stone waller mate, if it was the opposite way round and some one was man handling Suarez like that we'd have been screaming from the roof tops about it.

      But the ref applied the letter of law about contact in the box and the foul on Skrtel for me was a much worse incident than that and was a definate penalty, never mind the handball appeals too.

      The Skrtel one is the one I picked up on at the end of the game.  Of all our shouts for a penalty, that was the clearest cut one for me.
      LFC-LCFC
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #787: Sep 10, 2011 11:58:42 pm
      Ahh memories! I'm seeing usernames I haven't seen since the Hodgson and late-Rafa era's.

      Not an ounce of positivity in some people. (for once, I'm not talking about corbally!)
      corballyred
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #788: Sep 10, 2011 11:59:10 pm
      I agree Burdog I think if we had someone like Silva we would not be far off at all, just think we are missing that extra bit of creativity maybe Gerrard can produce it when he returns
      solodee
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #789: Sep 11, 2011 12:09:21 am
      Nothing is more annoying than losing to a stupid team that we out-classed and out-played!!!!!
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #790: Sep 11, 2011 12:10:37 am
      The Skrtel one is the one I picked up on at the end of the game.  Of all our shouts for a penalty, that was the clearest cut one for me.

      Yeh Rodders, I thought that was a terrible decision mate, both players sustained injuries of that showed clearly there was contact made in the box and the fact that Skrtel got to the ball first and got his shot his away showed it was a late tackle, that was a definite stone waller for me no doubt about it.

      I look at in the instance that when the referee awarded the penalty against us he set his stall out that contact in the box was not going to be tollerated and that foul on Skrtel was twice as bad as what happened with Carra.

      Just a shame really as I said earlier if we'd have got that penalty and Suarez and Henderson put their chances away and then the handball incidents went for us we could have won that game 5-1 which wouldn't have been a bad result considering we wernt at our best on the day.
      TKIDLLTK
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #791: Sep 11, 2011 12:21:09 am
      It was definately a penalty for Stoke, you can not have your arms all over a player in the box and not get penalised.

      Obviously there is the question of the foul that occured before teh penalty but it was a stone waller.

      No way.  There was not sufficient contact to bring that big fella down.  He was strong enough to barge Carra out of the way (no foul imo, but the ref had already given a foul against Skrtel for less) so he was strong enough not to go down when Carra had his hand around him, he wasn't pulling or yanking at him.  No way was that a pen.  It was one of those, contact then a dive.  Not a pen.

      Quote
      As were two of the handballs commited by Stoke and that challenge on Skrtel was also a stonewaller for me as it was a late challenge regardless of whether or not Skrtel got his shot away.

      First one deffo handball, second handball was 50/50, Skrtel one was stonewall.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #792: Sep 11, 2011 12:21:20 am
      I agree Burdog I think if we had someone like Silva we would not be far off at all, just think we are missing that extra bit of creativity maybe Gerrard can produce it when he returns

      I agree, we do need an attacking midfielder or a playmaker type in that position behind the striker.

      I was more than happy with Merieles or an Aquilani to play in that role behind the striker, but now that they've gone, we haven#t really replaced them?

      Also, another thing, Bellamy is surely our most clinical finisher in the team now? so I reckon we should play him in a poacher type role.
      LFC
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #793: Sep 11, 2011 12:21:43 am
      Bring on the Spuds!!!!!!!!
      kenny
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #794: Sep 11, 2011 12:28:05 am
      I just want to forget about this one, as i said before a lot of positives to take into the Spurs games.

      I for one couldn't imagine before the game we would dominate the way we did without scoring, just shows the steady progress were making.
      Billy1
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #795: Sep 11, 2011 12:31:29 am
      It is sad that we lost 3 points but we had Stoke on the ropes in the first 15 minutes and in other parts of the game but we have got to pick ourselves up and get back on the winning wagon.I am not going to criticise players as that has been well documented in this thread it is bad enough that we lost 3 points that should of been ours.
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #796: Sep 11, 2011 12:38:51 am
      It was definately a penalty for Stoke, you can not have your arms all over a player in the box and not get penalised.



      Totally disagree with you on this if that is a stone waller   there should be penalties in every game , there is far more going on at every corner than that and fck all is given .
      s@int
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #797: Sep 11, 2011 12:43:32 am
      The problem as I see it is we are still making too many excuses when we lose. If we are ever going to get back on top and knock Fergie off his f**king perch, we have to learn how to overcome to a certain extent bad decisions, bad luck and still win.  

      If we had taken our chances and won 3-1 we would have been a little annoyed at the penalty decision, but like Carra's mistake against Bolton, brushed it aside.

      We need to start overcoming problems rather than allowing them to determine our destiny, and while I accept that sometimes you need luck, more often than not you create your own.  

      Something the mancs seem very good at is going down in the box making a huge issue of it and pressurising the ref, so the next fall in the box the ref is so eager that he has blown before the player hits the ground.

      Every year we seem to have the same problem, an early decision goes against us and then we can't seem to pull it back.

      Maybe we get more bad calls than other teams...... or maybe we just suffer more because of them ?
      RedRoy
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #798: Sep 11, 2011 12:43:56 am
      Time for a reality check.you buy world class players,you get to buy a league.Others buy journeymen,you get to compete for minor league placings.Did we not have Aguero and Silva offered to us at attractive prices,only for our Manager to be undermined,by the gobs***e in charge at the time(put that in the locker Res).For the next generation we will be playing "catch-up",down to our previous owners.We are not in a position to win a title anytime yet,but that may well come in time.
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #799: Sep 11, 2011 12:46:43 am
      The problem as I see it is we are still making too many excuses when we lose. If we are ever going to get back on top and knock Fergie off his f**king perch, we have to learn how to overcome to a certain extent bad decisions, bad luck and still win. 

      If we had taken our chances and won 3-1 we would have been a little annoyed at the penalty decision, but like Carra's mistake against Bolton, brushed it aside.

      We need to start overcoming problems rather than allowing them to determine our destiny, and while I accept that sometimes you need luck, more often than not you create your own. 

      Something the mancs seem very good at is going down in the box making a huge issue of it and pressurising the ref, so the next fall in the box the ref is so eager that he has blown before the player hits the ground.

      Every year we seem to have the same problem, an early decision goes against us and then we can't seem to pull it back.

      Maybe we get more bad calls than other teams...... or maybe we just suffer more because of them ?
      Not a bad shout that.
      redkenny
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #800: Sep 11, 2011 01:03:24 am
      The problem as I see it is we are still making too many excuses when we lose. If we are ever going to get back on top and knock Fergie off his f**king perch, we have to learn how to overcome to a certain extent bad decisions, bad luck and still win. 

      If we had taken our chances and won 3-1 we would have been a little annoyed at the penalty decision, but like Carra's mistake against Bolton, brushed it aside.

      We need to start overcoming problems rather than allowing them to determine our destiny, and while I accept that sometimes you need luck, more often than not you create your own. 

      Something the mancs seem very good at is going down in the box making a huge issue of it and pressurising the ref, so the next fall in the box the ref is so eager that he has blown before the player hits the ground.

      Every year we seem to have the same problem, an early decision goes against us and then we can't seem to pull it back.

      Maybe we get more bad calls than other teams...... or maybe we just suffer more because of them ?

      Suarez should have scored at the end. Henderson had more than one chance to put the ball away. As did Adam, or he could have passed it to Suarez to finish it off. There were more chances in the first half. Non of those were influenced by the ref, nor deemed by luck. Entirely agree with your post - you definitely make your own luck. And excuses get tiresome.

      To go through the season without losing a game would be something. Even if we did, that doesn't mean we're gonna win the league. Draws have made us come undone in the not so distant past!

      I had a draw down for today as I don't think many teams will leave Stoke with all three points. If there was ever a time to lose away to Stoke and then kick on and get stronger from it, it would definitely be this early in the season.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #801: Sep 11, 2011 01:05:38 am
      No way.  There was not sufficient contact to bring that big fella down.  He was strong enough to barge Carra out of the way (no foul imo, but the ref had already given a foul against Skrtel for less) so he was strong enough not to go down when Carra had his hand around him, he wasn't pulling or yanking at him.  No way was that a pen.  It was one of those, contact then a dive.  Not a pen.


      It was a stonewaller mate the moment a defender wraps his arm a striker and obstructs him (irrespective of if he goes down or not) its a penalty, Carra was obstructing him so it was a penalty and I have no gripes with that, its the other decisions I have a gripe with, but I'll take the positives from the game in that allthough we wernt exactly at our best, the superior team on the day was beaten by the referee.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #802: Sep 11, 2011 01:05:38 am
      Totally disagree with you on this if that is a stone waller   there should be penalties in every game , there is far more going on at every corner than that and fck all is given .

      Carra obstructed him mate, take your red tinted glasses off for a minute and look at it again, it doesn't matter if he went down or not, Carra had his arm round him obstructing him from running through on goal, if it had been the other way round and Shawcroos had done it to Suarez we'd be disgusted if the referee never awarded it.

      The referee fu**ed up though as it should have been a foul on Carra before they even got into the box.
      wallbanger
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #803: Sep 11, 2011 01:05:44 am
      Think the referees decisions are the biggest variable in who wins or loses sometimes. They seem  to favour the home side more.Think pulis had a hidden agenda to park the bus as thats how they beat us before.But stoke are an improving team.
      its very difficult to win when you have so many players defending. No excuses good teams find a way like man utd.   
      Burdogcallingbat21
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      Re: Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate
      Reply #804: Sep 11, 2011 01:15:51 am
      Clattenburg was dreadful, but even alllowing for that, we'd win that game 99% of the time. Second half was like a training exercise, attack vs defence.

      People will say it's sour grapes, and i'm only saying this because we lost - but Stoke are, by a significant margin, the worst footballing side i have ever seen in my life. All they have is long throws and long punts out of defence to a big man. The devil's advocate in me wonders if they should sign Carra

      But seriously, they are so dire, it's laughable. Their fans wont complain because they won, they've progressed since getting into the PL and are on the up compared to where they were 5 years ago. But F**k me, if i was paying good money to watch that sh*te, i'd be in tears every week. The most definitive example of 'anti-football' you could ever get. And it's not about them not having the players or saying that they should try and 'out-football' better sides. There are teams in the PL with considerably worse players than Stoke, who dont resort to that kind of alehouse sh*t. Genuinely embarrassing.

      Back to us - we werent at our best, but we F***ing pissed on them, they had one attempt on target all game (the peno) and we must have had about 20, altogether. We were plenty good enough to win that game, but due to a bit of sloppiness on our part, and some bizarre turns of events, we somehow couldnt score.

      We werent totally blameless or faultless though - Charlie Adam's passing was F***ing sh*te all day long, his worst performance thus far, needs to improve a shitload, because that was about a 3/10 performance today.

      And Henderson - i know he's young and i know he's still settling in, but by lord, a professional footballer, and a technically sound one at that, with all that space, and all the time in the world - never mind MAKING a brew, he could've gone and picked the tea leaves and STILL would've had time to finish - one on one with the keeper and with THREE attempts at it, still couldnt beat Begovic. I'm not going to be abusive or call him sh*t, but that was dreadfully poor that he couldnt score those 3 chances (3-in-1).

      Skrtel's effort at the latter end of the half was poor too, and Suarez's instinctive miss at the end, with an open net, was hard to take. Bellamy's header should've hit the target, Downing had a decent headed attempt too and Agger also skied one late on, from a good position. Those are just off the top of my head, but i'm sure there's other chances i've forgotten. All in all, with a touch more luck and better composure/finishing, we would've done enough to have won 3 games, let alone one.

      So overall, gutted to lose but on that kind of performance, we'll be fine. If we play like that the majority of the time during the season, we will get top 4 with our eyes closed.

      I'll close by saying, i'm a little worried about Carragher - aside from anything else, he should have the experience and intelligence not to be doing what he did in the box - i was behind that goal and it happened very quickly - my instant reaction was 'definite penalty' but i've heard people on the radio say it was 50/50. Having only had one look at it (same as the ref), and as quickly as it happened, i thought...not necessarily that it was a clear penalty - but it was clear that the ref was always going to give it, all day long. In which case, the solution is to not put the ref in that position, whereby he has to make a decision. The 'prevention' would've simply been to not let the forward get ahead of him in the first place. But yeah, aside from his hoofing, which is just Carra, i didnt think he needed to make the 'challenge' that lead to the peno.

      Big game next week at Spurs now, we need to bounce back and two consecutive defeats would be a major blow.

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