Stoke 1-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate

That game just pissed me off. The ref did, Stoke did (atjo to be fair to them they obviously had a game plan, stuck to it and got their reward ) and some of our performances did.

The longer the game went on, the more nervous thd lads hot in front of goal, trying to walk in it a lot of the time, any time we got a shot in it was a poor effort. I feel if we had got one early the floodgates would have opened up. That said, our passing in the first half was woeful. It improved second half but a game is 90 mins long, not 45. We can't just decide to play for 1 half.

Bellamy should have cane on earlier, his introduction really did kick-start our improvement in the 2nd half. A great substitution apperance, unfortunately the same can't be said for Carroll, yet again.

Our midfield 5 as a whole were shocking. Kuyt anonymous, Hendersontried but failed, Adam couldn't pass 5 yards, and Lucas was largely quiet. Downing tried at least and was ok to be fair.

Back 4 did ok but Carra did cost us the game really. Our last 2 goals conceded have been because of him. His legs have gone. Fast turning into a liability, OT was said last season too. Knee jerk it not, but it really is time to start bringing in his replacement this season. Enrique impressed to a certain extent. Agger was good and Srktel was solid.

The penalty pissed me off, like what was Carra at? We should have had 1 but we shouldn't be relying on penalties to get points in the first place. We took 50 minutes to get playing and that was 50 minutes too late, which resulted in 0 points.

The question is, is Kenny ruthless enough to leae sentiment aside and drop Carragher. He's' a busted flush. It's hard talking about a legend in those terms but you have to assess him logically and without sentiment.

Carra obstructed him mate, take your red tinted glasses off for a minute and look at it again, it doesn't matter if he went down or not, Carra had his arm round him obstructing him from running through on goal, if it had been the other way round and Shawcroos had done it to Suarez we'd be disgusted if the referee never awarded it.

I honestly wouldn't.  I'd have said it was minimal contact, not enough for a pen (said that about the one against Bolton, until I saw Knight's hand clip him).

I don't think the Ramires one was a pen last week either, as he buckled and went to ground before the contact.

The referee fu**ed up though as it should have been a foul on Carra before they even got into the box.

Exactly, if the standard you're playing by is strict and Carra on him was a pen, then that was a foul anyway. 



This is an argument for video technology though.  A ref gets one look at the incident, it is difficult.  Using the video appeal system, you are going to get more decisions correct - any players are less likely to dive in the first place.

The question is, is Kenny ruthless enough to leae sentiment aside and drop Carragher. He's' a busted flush. It's hard talking about a legend in those terms but you have to assess him logically and without sentiment.

I think Skrtel and Agger are our 1st choice CBs, but Skrtel is needed on the right at the moment.  When Kelly or Johnson come back, Carra will be dropped.

Woke up and haven't bothered to speak a word yet. Still F***ing gutted.

Hopefully we can learn from this game, see where we improved when we brought on Bellamy and Andy, and not let teams like this get at us again.

As for Mark Clattenburg, i will find you. And i will hurt you.

Never like Clattenburg.

So many times I've seen him give decisions against Liverpool. I think this is not the first time he has given a penalty against us.

At times I did not know if I was watching a Football match or Rugby, but I suppose that is whats to be expected when playing stoke. I thought the penalty was quite generous, the officiating leaved a lot to be desired but we should be used to that. Thought we deserved at least a point for the effort put in, we never gave up but it is pretty damn hard to get one in when the opposition seems to play 8 in the box.

Positives:  Bellamy, thought he looked great. Very speedy, creative and savvy...I think his efforts earned him a start v. Tot
 
                Effort was outstanding, we never gave up like so many matches last year, tough and physical match we played.

Negatives:  Adam, though he had a couple nice corners there was no consistency, gave away to many passes.

                  Hendo, Love the kid but as others mentioned Beller's was much more influential in 25 minutes then Hendo was
                   in 70.

                   Suarez: Hard to find faults with him but I have to agree with many others, he spent about 6-7 minutes this
                   match on his knee's, hands flopping in the air, this is happening 10-15 times a match and after awhile it gets
                   a bit old. I know he is passionate and the work he puts in is above reproach; however I think he is one of the
                   most gifted players in the world, all this complaining is below him. Luis, just take the anger to the net do not
                   lower yourself with all these antics...you are better than that.

Watching that Stoke pen again, it is obvious to me that the initial foul was that of Walters. He backed into Jamie and then used his arm and put it into the neck area of Carra.

Not happy with the refs performance, but even so we had more than enough chances to win the game.

Pretty much agree with  everyones posts not sure how we lost  but we did, game was won on   a dodgy pen we gave it   everything  couldnt  ask for more  put it to bed  go spurs   get a result .

I don't see the problem with Luis' gestures. He was pissed off with the lack of service at most times and i don't blame him. Most of the time in the first hour he had to deal with long balls or sh*t passes way too far for him.

amazing to think that right now we have some kind of right back problem. not a knee-jerk at all but, kelly needs to be eased in, flanno is young and can't be expected to play many in a row and glen? he looked immobile......

That's because he was. He done his hamstring within minutes of coming on but stayed on because we had no more subs.

Absolute no problem with Suarez doing that, shows his passion, he was dead right yesterday, first Henderson should have lifted his head after he missed the first shot and then Adam should have passed it to him when it rebounded, i'd have been raging as well

The problem as I see it is we are still making too many excuses when we lose. If we are ever going to get back on top and knock Fergie off his f**king perch, we have to learn how to overcome to a certain extent bad decisions, bad luck and still win. 

If we had taken our chances and won 3-1 we would have been a little annoyed at the penalty decision, but like Carra's mistake against Bolton, brushed it aside.

We need to start overcoming problems rather than allowing them to determine our destiny, and while I accept that sometimes you need luck, more often than not you create your own. 

Something the mancs seem very good at is going down in the box making a huge issue of it and pressurising the ref, so the next fall in the box the ref is so eager that he has blown before the player hits the ground.

Every year we seem to have the same problem, an early decision goes against us and then we can't seem to pull it back.

Maybe we get more bad calls than other teams...... or maybe we just suffer more because of them ?

 Great post mate and I couldn't agree more. I said as soon as we conceded the goal that in the same situation I'd back the Mancs at 4/5 to still win the match, and I'm afraid therein lies the difference between the two clubs as of now. That's not necessarily Kenny's fault nor this bunch of players fault, it's the result of a lack of belief, lack of winning mentality which has been allowed to build up around our club over many years. We used to have it way back when, Ray Kennedy would pop up with a goal, McDermott would burst through a gap and level it, Dalglish himself would maybe turn the game on its head with a bit of brilliance. These days though it isn't a massive surprise when the game slip through our fingers like sand.

 It's Kenny's biggest challenge, to turn the club into winners again.

Hopefully we can learn from this game, see where we improved when we brought on Bellamy and Andy, and not let teams like this get at us again.

To be honest, I was not so impressed by Carroll's introduction ... I think that Bellamy & Maxi for Kuyt & Henderson would have done much more damage in the last 30 minutes ...

Yesterday's match has once again exposed our weakness against packed defences, just like the second half against Sunderland ... We still lack creativity in midfield, especially in the attacking third ... Despite the fact that we dominate possession, our attacking play is way too predictable, and managers like Bruce or Pulis will always try to put 10 men behind the ball and explore this weakness ... Maybe the return of Gerrard will help us, but we still need to develop a proper plan B when facing these situations ... So far, I can't see a serious improvement in this area ...

I did say that we normally lose the first game after international break! It always happens - unfortunately it was against Stoke.

It's OK to say we lost & should not blame the referees but most times in games like these a single goal either gives you a win or loss. Had it been Manure then they would have automatically got a penalty to at least draw the match - it's given that they will always get the rub of the black  .

I am worried about Adam and Henderson though. More so Adam since he has always been there for 90 minutes but has (so far) on been on  top form in only 1 game. I would have expected more from him.

Also, Bellamy was great while Carroll - well what can I say? Perhaps, Kenny feels he must play him since he paid £35 million for him. Seems to have lost his confidence. I hope he get one goal & then hopefully he will start scoring.

Finally, we do need to blame the referees for some games since they *do* decide the fate of the position of the teams in PL.

We've come a long way since last year but from this performance you can see the weakness in our first 11. We're still missing another genuine world class winger cos we're forced to play hendo or kuyt there. Also we need a partner for suarez, cant believe we let aguero go really but we need someone of that quality really to get the best of luis other wise hes gonna be frustrated like he was in this match.

Bcos we sold meireles weve no alternative to adam now so when he had a shocker he had to stay on. risky business would have kept raul/aqua myself for that magic we were missing but gotta pay the bills i know.

Dont think carras finished myself but have little faith in skrtel and need to see coates eased in soon if he is the right man.

Bellamy should be starting alongside luis for me next match. Ive always said dirk shud be ahead of either carroll or hendo but that was based on end of season form. Hes come back slow again but seems to improve as the season progresses.

Stevie hopefully can fill the one of the voids we have but defo january we're gonna need another top attacker to replace raul/aqua and give adam some competition.

F***ing raging over the match losing decisions yet again.

Really dissapointed to lost the game but was encouraged by the performance. In the past we've gone to teams like this, played poorly and got what we deserved. We've been undone by a superb performance from their goal keeper, a shocking penatly decision and some very poor finishing. Henderson, Suarez, Downing and Bellamy all had fantastic opportunities to score and had two of those efforts gone in we'd all be lauding the performance and talking about title challenges in here. I'd agree entirely with what Mick says about the winning mentality bit though. Once we went a goal down I kinda felt the expectation of winning the game drain out of me because it's been so long since we've come from behind to win. When we go behind I have generally felt like it's game over, or we might get a draw and you wonder if the lads have a bit of that in them as well. Deffo the two biggest things for this side are to learn how come from behind to win games and to be able to get the job done away from home.

Tough one to take but maybe this is a bit of reality check as well. It's a relatively new side, the lads will need some time to gel. I think we'll be an excellent side at home this season but the away from may take a bit of time to come together.

What pissed me off about yesterday with Carrolls introduction was the game was coming to an end, we had the ball in dangerous crossing positions and where was Carroll ?, hanging out on the wings or the edge of the 18 yarder on more than occassion too, now I know he's working hard in some instances trying to close people down etc when he comes deep, but when were chasing the game get in the box and give Downing and the likes something to aim for as that's where he'll do the most damage.

                  Hendo, Love the kid but as others mentioned Beller's was much more influential in 25 minutes then Hendo was
                   in 70.

Always difficult to assess though.  We dominated the game, and Stoke looked tired in the last 25.  Most fresh players could have an impact.

Not sure if Bellamy is a 'starter' but take your point.  Henderson was, on the whole, pretty poor and has much to learn.

I came to conclusion yesterday that Kuyt should be eased out of this team and then sold next summer. He's over 30, his technique and ball control is horrific. When Kuyt isn't scoring goals he a'int doing much else. Very poor footballer in the true sense of the word in my opinion.  Very limited. He wouldn't get near a top club'sfirst team.  I have a long lingering dislike of Kuyt's allround game. I do appreciate his work ethic and commitment to the shirt but his limitations outweigh his usefulness.