Why are some fans being negative?

Some people think we beat Barcelona playing free flowing football. We were outplayed for large periods of the second half and we let there midfield get on top.yes people are happy with the three points but it was far from an impressive performance against a team who are currently struggling if we replicate that performance we will be beaten by everton

People here other people saying something and jump on the bandwagon.  Some people in the press criticise Rafa, therefore, everyone gets in on it and ignores his achievements, just does him down.  Understandable from opposition fans, but not from ex players.  Rafa had his faults, but didn't deserve a fraction of the crap he's put up with

Very very rare you here an ex Liverpool player say a good word about rafa.  They were all quick to F***ing tell us how talented a manager roy Hodgson was

Is there some kinda history thread that we can talk about past managers, style of football we played and players?

A lot of interesting stuff here!

Ah, ok, knew he was linked.  Why did we not get him in the end then? Moores didn't fancy paying for him?

Heres an article on it from 2003.

Ian Doyle, Liverpool Echo
CRISTIANO RONALDO last night urged Liverpool boss Gerard Houllier to follow up his interest in him.

The 19-year-old Portuguese midfielder is proving one of the stars of this year's Toulon under-20 tournament.

Reds assistant manager Phil Thompson has been in France to observe the impact of the youngster, whose performances have attracted interest from a host of top European clubs.

And Ronaldo, an attacking player who can play on either flank, has signalled his intentions by admitting it would be a "dream" to move to Anfield.

"Liverpool are one of the best clubs in England and it would be a dream for any player to represent a club of such traditions," he said.

"I will have to hope that they make an offer that is good for both Sporting and myself."

Ronaldo added the lure of playing alongside Michael Owen has influenced his decision to greet a move.

"The English League is not one of my favourites, but it is very interesting," he insisted.

"I think my way of play can be reconciled in the Premiership. If a player possesses quality, he can adapt anywhere.

"Michael Owen is a great player and any youngster would love to be in the same side as him.

"Let's see how things turn out. I am going to continue working as hard as ever."

Liverpool - who yesterday dismissed reports linking them with Udinese's Chilean midfield ace David Pizarro - have not tabled any bid for Ronaldo, who is rated at #5million by Sporting Lisbon.

And although the Reds are keen to build for the future, Houllier has stated his policy this summer is to bring in proven quality ahead of potential.

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Erm yeh 3 points against Wolves, I'll take 3 points every week playing ugly if we have to.

I guess for every £5m Ronaldo there is a £5m teenager who never makes it and ends up at Wolves... see what I did there?

Ya so would i blood but you wont get three points every week playing like that e. If we give up the midfield as easy as that against top teams what happened against spurs wont be a once off

And we went on to win the double.

I'm fairly sure if LFC forums were around in September 1985, some morons would be highlighting that we shouldn't have a player manager - that Kenny had no experience - and that our draws against Aston Villa and West Ham, and defeat at Newcastle were all signs we weren't a 'top four' team.

Fortunately we didn't have forums back in those days, and we didn't have the number of clueless 'followers' we have now who seem to think they have highly skilled football knowledge after years of watching football on TV and playing Football Manager.

The start may have been simi;lar, but the mid field was certainly stronger than what we've put out so far this season bar Downing and possibly Lucas. Time needed to settle in yes, but not to develope your game at our expense.

Think that is a poor example shankly took over a team languishing in the second division and built the foundations for a dynasty.  Why would fans not show patience with him when there was improvement every year

We were definitely in the second division but in the 4 seasons prior to Bill Shankly taking overwe finished 4th twice and 3rd twice.Our worse season was our first season in the depths when we finished 11th and shortly after it was the end for Don Welsh who was an earlier version of Hodgson. The second division clubs loved us being there because of the big gates we used to get and I think they got a good divvy from them

We were definitely in the second division but in the 4 seasons prior to Bill Shankly taking overwe finished 4th twice and 3rd twice.Our worse season was our first season in the depths when we finished 11th and shortly after it was the end for Don Welsh who was an earlier version of Hodgson. The second division clubs loved us being there because of the big gates we used to get and I think they got a good divvy from them

Apologies for going off topicwhen Shanks gets mentioned the memories come flooding back.

Ah, ok, knew he was linked.  Why did we not get him in the end then? Moores didn't fancy paying for him?

Re: Ronaldo

Houllier thougt he wasn't big/strong enough for the prem, thought he wouldn't cope.

And we went on to win the double.

I'm fairly sure if LFC forums were around in September 1985, some morons would be highlighting that we shouldn't have a player manager - that Kenny had no experience - and that our draws against Aston Villa and West Ham, and defeat at Newcastle were all signs we weren't a 'top four' team.

Fortunately we didn't have forums back in those days, and we didn't have the number of clueless 'followers' we have now who seem to think they have highly skilled football knowledge after years of watching football on TV and playing Football Manager.

f***in' A.

I was super happy with our win, and just 10 minutes of reading some posts here made me feel like we had lost or something. I don't have much internet time right now with the F***ing useless cu*ts who do installs here still not having turned up yet (meant to be done days ago) and the little time i can leach off of the neighbour i ended up in a foul mood from some ridiculous sh*te in here.

I think some people here suffer from the condition that, admittedly many fans suffer from, and that is putting everyone else who you think is better on a pedestal, and then overly criticizing your own team even when they actually don't do much worse in a given week. It's hard to explain what i mean, but it's when you will be so negative that you'll pick apart your own performance after watching the whole 90 minutes of a win, and find everything bad about it. And then you'll see 2 minutes of highlights from say, oh manure maybe, and see all the best stuff and say "See, this is where we are going wrong blah blah blah" and you'll think you have a completely balanced view and will have no idea why people are saying "hang on, you're overreacting mate!"

My opinion is - manure are no better squad these days. They aren't. Maybe a bit of strength here and there, but they really aren't miles better. What they DO have is the mentality of winners. Every player that moves there is moving there with confidence of just being able to slot into a winning team and just pick it up, and that is a very valuable thing. This is the difference between the teams, it's mentality. And that is why people need to stop F***ing pissing about trying to analyze where we are going horribly wrong and why things aren't gonna get better cos we are still fu**ed, Kenny bought bad, Hendo is sh*t and will never get better, Adam's a lazy F**k, Carroll aint worth a penny more than 1m, etc etc et-F***ing-cetera! It's ridiculous. There's a lot here who expected us (they won't admit it though) to be man united-like dominant in our first year under Kenny. Christ, the man is the King but he aint a wizard! He doesn't have an instant potion conjured up to set us on our way - there will be teething problems (cue a Suarez joke!) We will have games where we play like sh*t and lose, and we'll have the ones where we play like sh*t for a half and still win. And then we'll also have the ones where we show our full potential and cream teams (two 5-goal games end o last year proof of that). The players, there's many new faces, need time to fully get that understanding of each other and the system. You know why those games where you see Rooney and co look so fluid? It's because there is a spine there that just know the system and it's easy to mix and match when you have that. We were getting to that under Rafa until the rug was pulled and we started losing it. Now it's Kenny's turn, and if given time, that spine will be built. The more optimistic of us can see it already, it's there and if it reaches it's potential (it will) it's gonna be F***ing deadly.

Fergie went to the brink of being sacked doing his building job, it just can not be done overnight. The only way it can come close is if you have the money of City, and i sure as hell don't wanna be that kind of team.

Keep calm, keep patient. The Kenny revolution is in motion. And for fucks sake, enjoy a god damned win when we get it!

(It's past midnight here and im kinda on autopilot, so if some of this doesn't make complete sense - i apologize )

 Excellent thread and some sensible posts in it. Some of the negativity surrounding our early season is frankly ridiculous when you cosider how things have been in recent years.

People were being negative because the performances against Spurs and Wolves were very poor.

Because they clearly can't see the difference in terms of attitude, atmosphere, performances and more between this season and this time last year.

What I like is ... how they turn up whenever we don't win but I've hardly see them post when we've won.

I think we were terrible against Spurs. No question about that but how often can we keep up decent/above average performances, especially since we're a team in transition (We got 7 new players in and tons out, in a single window, FFS! And four of those new players have been starting every game).

We were good against Wolves in the first half but Wolves clearly stepped up in the second half. Mick McCarthy brought in the changes in the second half. Credit to him for that, they got an early goal and believed they could salvaged something form the game, thus, making it difficult for us. On the brightside, the score should have been more than 2-0 at half time. Suarez could of bagged himself 3 or more goals in the game itself.

People were being negative because the performances against Spurs and Wolves were very poor.

Hey hey hey, Einstein! Well done, no one else had the foggiest did they

I know why people were being negative. Wasn't exactly a ray of sunshine after the Spurs game myself, but some people take it too far.

And then those being overly negative after Wolves are F***ing out of their minds. The performance was not VERY poor. Very poor is a performance that ends in a loss. We still won that game, which in my mind means it was on a scale of very poor to very good, at the very least, average. Not to mention we played some good football at times as well, just suffered lapses which is a classic characteristic of a rebuilding team.

Nothing to go F***ing crazy about which is what has been happening.

Fergie went to the brink of being sacked doing his building job, it just can not be done overnight. The only way it can come close is if you have the money of City, and i sure as hell don't wanna be that kind of team.

I think the problem here, is that this kind of reasoning has been applied for the last 20+ years under previous managers such as Uncle Roy (Evans), Houllier, Rafa, Hodgson and we are now saying it again under KK. The point being, we can be saying Rome wasn't built in a day for the next 20+ years again. Yes it is true, but after 21 years people are fed up of waiting and are demanding success now. Why? Because it has been so long since last we won the league.

Keep calm, keep patient. The Kenny revolution is in motion. And for fucks sake, enjoy a god damned win when we get it!

True, but a win cannot hide the deficiencies a team may have, and that's what folk are concerned with. I don't mind winning ugly, or winning lucky, or any other negative way, being too physical, long ball etc. But when a team does that, it tends to be because they do not have the ability or knowledge to win any other way. Like Wimbledon in the 80s. People want to see 'sexy football' because it's what 'entertains'. People like being entertained. Whether that's realisitic and a valid reason is beside the point. To pose a question (and no this is not a dig at KK, the staff, or players, it's just an example), results aside for a minute, would you rather see us playing like Barcelona or Wimbledon of the earlier years?

Just to emphasise, because I'm sure someone will say it, 'I'm not demanding a Barceolna type performance', I'm just trying to get an example across.

Personally, a team is only as good as its constituent parts, and when some of those parts are not performing, its only natural that folk will come on here and air their views about what they think the problem is. When they articulate their concerns here, it's very similar to therapy. You talk about what's bugging you and in doing so, you are attempting to work out what's bugging you.

It's what human beings do, they always have.

Hey hey hey, Einstein! Well done, no one else had the foggiest did they

I know why people were being negative. Wasn't exactly a ray of sunshine after the Spurs game myself, but some people take it too far.

I was merely pointing out why people were complaining because you asked like there was absolutely no reason at all whatsoever to be complaining. Whether those complaints are valid or not is hard to say because no two people will necessarily see something the same way.

Sorry to say but I dont think we are the most knowledgable fans in the game any more, not by a long way. Look at some of those pre and post match interviews with "fans" that sky do, christ even read some of the poo in here

Sorry to say but I dont think we are the most knowledgable fans in the game any more, not by a long way. Look at some of those pre and post match interviews with "fans" that sky do, christ even read some of the poo in here

I think the fact we were seen as the most knowledgeable fans when we were winning everything is telling.

People were being negative because the performances against Spurs and Wolves were very poor.

Placing Spurs and Wolves in to the same category of performance is not being negative.  It's actually being blind.

I think the fact we were seen as the most knowledgeable fans when we were winning everything is telling.

Not at all. Ive seen other teams applauded for scoring against us after good football in there build up, thats fans aware of what they are looking at. Ive seen teams win games, trophies even at Anfield and being applauded off. I've heard and discussed with others the strenghts and weaknesses of players without becoming abusive or personal about that player or writing them off after 2 months.

Its rarely like that now.

Placing Spurs and Wolves in to the same category of performance is not being negative.  It's actually being blind.

First half apart against Wolves and the first 15 minutes against Spurs I thought the team struggled, possibly for different reasons perhaps, but they struggled. Whether or not because of tactics and/or personnel it still comes down to poor performances against both teams.

The Clamour for instant success is the problem, it starts and ends there.

Fans have seen Chelsea and Man City throw 100's of millions into their squads over the last few seasons and seen them have some moderate success.

So now we've spent around £35m net following three years and six transfer windows with a negative net spend under Hicks and Gillett, thats surely enough to steam roll every one in our path and return us to the pinnacle of english football.

There maybe a hint of sarcasm in this post.