If the results went differently

4 points from every 2 games would place us 2nd in the league last season, so no matter how we do it, that would be a major improvement this season !

After 15 games we are only 4 points of that type of points tally.

So all good. IMO.

Good topic. I don't like to say it but we have been unlucky this season. Reason being it sounds like an excuse but its not, we genuinely havnt had our fair share of the rub of the green. I think once the team gets to know eachother a bit better and the new players start to settle in a bit more we will start to see more results being forced and ground out. Start turning some of these draws into wins and we will be laughing. I reckon we will make top four by the end of season.

A lot of people were saying before the Swansea/Chelsea game that 4 points would be a good return.

That's the point I'm trying to make mate, in most cases people would have been happy with four points from the pair of games (I know United were in between of Everton and Norwich) I mentioned. In each case we got four points and yet it appears it isn't good enough for some. I can understand why because we should be beating Sunderland, Norwich and Swansea at home but ultimately, if people would of been happy with four points from the pairs of games then why aren't they?

What's also interesting is that we haven't as far as I can remember won one or drawn one single game where you could say "f*ck me we got a result there, they battered us". The only game in which we've been comprehensively outplayed was Tottenham Away.

 We lost at Stoke and were unbelieveably unfortunate so to do, ditto at Fulham. We drew at Home with Norwich despite hitting the woodwork half a dozen times, battered both Manc teams and didn't beat either etc etc. We could quite concieveably have eight or nine points more than we have now, without playing any better than we have.

 Now I know this will bring the mouth foamers out in force but it's wrth pointing out anyway. In our best ever league season under Rafa we got every bounce going in the early season, last minute winners week on week, players getting sent off against us left right and centre etc etc. Hang on I'd better say something here before someone keels over on us: I'M NOT SAYING WE FINISHED SECOND BECAUSE WE WERE LUCKY. What I am saying that if we had been equally lucky at the start of this season, we'd be right up there. It's all fine margins, but IMHO this is the best side we've had in a few seasons.

 I'm just going to repeat for the hard of reading; I'M NOT SAYING WE FINISHED SECOND BECAUSE WE WERE LUCKY.

Actually in the first part on 08/09 we weren't that good, has everyone forgot Dossena already!!

Isn't that why we didn't win the league, because of the early season draws?

The more we struggle against the "smaller" teams, the more of a mental issue it will become for the players. In saying that, it works the same way when we have been doing exceptionally well against our top rivals.

Actually in the first part on 08/09 we weren't that good, has everyone forgot Dossena already!!

Isn't that why we didn't win the league, because of the early season draws?

 That's right Dossena was garbage, my mind had selectively forgotten about him altoghether. That said, didn't we win 10 out our first 12 or something, a succession of last minute winners repeatedly getting us over the line? I'm only going from memory here, I haven't googled it or anything.

Actually in the first part on 08/09 we weren't that good, has everyone forgot Dossena already!!

Isn't that why we didn't win the league, because of the early season draws?

I have not forgotten the goal that Dossena scored against United,I don'tknow who was more excited when he scored him or me.

 That's right Dossena was garbage, my mind had selectively forgotten about him altoghether. That said, didn't we win 10 out our first 12 or something, a succession of last minute winners repeatedly getting us over the line? I'm only going from memory here, I haven't googled it or anything.

Our first 13 games were 10-2-1, and then we had that pair of draws at home to Fulham and West Ham.

January that really fu**ed us.

I seem to remember drawing at home to stoke? At least I think it was at home. Think it was 0-0?

Remember that being a game that we should of won which potentially cost us the title.

Just two of our drawn games being grind out to win's would have seen us level on points with the mancs

One of those draws in the first 13 was Stoke at home yeah. Incorrectly ruled out goal I believe also! Drew 0-0 away to Stoke as well. c**t of a bloody side they've been to us

That's football though. Shouldn't have lost at Boro, should have ground out a win here and there. Also unlucky to be on the end of Arshavins one awesome game for Arsenal as well!

As for this season, can't see us getting worse than our reasonably good to great play. Only way is up, and we are in a good spot to start pushing.

We were unbeaten for 12 games I think, until we lost to Spurs despite taking the lead first.

Yeah, we drew with Stoke at Anfield. 30 shots, 20 corners and one wrong disallowed goal that would have seen Gerrard scored his 100th Liverpool goal via a free kick.

We drew with Fulham and West Ham when our rivals dropped points but the main killer was January 2009. I think we drew three times that month to Everton, Wigan and Stoke.

Like you said, had we got 2 wins instead of 2 draws, we would finished level on points with United and claim the title through a superior goal difference of +50!

EDIT

BigV reminds me. If Arshavin ever played the same again, he will never score four goals from four shots, even if he tried. We were unlucky!
I miss that season. I was so confident going into every game that season. It wasn't the same in the last two seasons but it's getting better now.

We also won more games than the mancs didnt we? Yet they still came out on top. Being born in 91, it's the closest ive come to see'ing Liverpool win the League. I genuinely thought we were going to do it that year. Especially after thrashing Newcastle away. We looked unstopable. Such a shame, Rafa desereved to win it aswell. Still one of my hero's is Rafa, not arsed what anybody says. Hopefully King Kenny can go that one step further in the coming few seasons and return us to the pinnacle of English Football.

Actually in the first part on 08/09 we weren't that good

Ah, the night we drew with West Ham and were booed off even though top of the league, so some weren't impressed with that start

Ah, it seems I was talking utter b0ll0cks. Sorry about that.

 Corrected it for you. Not to worry, happens to us all from time to time.

Ah, the night we drew with West Ham and were booed off even though top of the league, so some weren't impressed with that start

Yep. People like..

Actually in the first part on 08/09 we weren't that good

Corrected it for you. Not to worry, happens to us all from time to time.

And why the F**k do you care, wouldn't you have been too busy during that season blaming Rafa

Actually it's utter bollocks, not utter b0ll0cks, shouldn't get your zero's mixed up with your O's

Otherwise you look a bit of a c**t!

 I care only in that it was bollocks, and utter bollocks at that. Still, no harm done.

 So anyway back onto the original point, we got a good start and a bit of luck that year. This year we've had no luck and our start hasn't been quite as good. Simples.

I care only in that it was bollocks, and utter bollocks at that. Still, no harm done.

 So anyway back onto the original point, we got a good start and a bit of luck that year. This year we've had no luck and our start hasn't been quite as good. Simples.

Why are you comparing?

In 2008/09 we had far more world class players than we have in our squad now, maybe that is why that team was a better team and got better results.

This team, this season is still finding it's feet, need time like Rafa's teams to grow.

b] Why are you comparing? [/b]

In 2008/09 we had far more world class players than we have in our squad now, maybe that is why that team was a better team and got better results.

This team, this season is still finding it's feet, need time like Rafa's teams to grow.

 Well, I'm comparing because it's the best start we had to a league season in many years. It happened only a couple of seasons back, naturally we would aspire to have that sort of start every year if we could, and as I said earlier it was my impression that we were getting the bounce of the ball during that period (and we aren't this). It's a shame that somebody can't make a sensible point about the team during a six year period without being accused of having a "Rafa bash", but there it is. Some of you lads are sensitive/defensive to the point of being paranoid, but there you go.

 Well, I'm comparing because it's the best start we had to a league season in many years. It happened only a couple of seasons back, naturally we would aspire to have that sort of start every year if we could, and as I said earlier it was my impression that we were getting the bounce of the ball during that period (and we aren't this). It's a shame that somebody can't make a sensible point about the team during a six year period without being accused of having a "Rafa bash", but there it is. Some of you lads are sensitive/defensive to the point of being paranoid, but there you go.

What was your sensible point about the team during that six year period? How could you have a sensible point about that six year period, when you have a biased point of view yourself?

What was your sensible point about the team during that six year period? How could you have a sensible point about that six year period, when you have a biased point of view yourself?

 I refer you the earlier posts. "Biased"? You couldn't make it up.

 Anyway back on topic, I think if we'd had a bit more luck this season we could easily be 8 or 9 points better off. That's probably a bit biased of me to say that, but I naturally remember all the times this season we've been unlucky. The only obvious bit of luck I can remember us having was Charlie Adams deflected shot against Man City. I also thought we got a pen which was a little bit soft in one match where Suarez got fouled, but I can't remember the game. WBA maybe? Anyway, I'm sure the point holds good, we've had no luck.

Interesting topic, bit of everything in here. Comparing results, starts to seasons, lucky or unlucky, with Rafagate dug up again for good measure. In only 2 pages too
I'm OK with the season start. If you look at the top6, only surprise for me is Spurts being well up there and looking strong. And talking about luck, saw the highlights of their loss 2-1 vs. Stoke - they were definately unlucky not to get at least a point there, unbelievable actually. So luck/refereeing decisions etc. for me anyway are things that even out, even by this stage of the season.
(Arsenal are a bit of a surprise too given their start, but they are practically a one man team, if RVP gets injured again, they're fu**ed)
Are we unlucky not to be winning more games? For me, the answer is no. We are creating plenty of chances - we're just not putting them away. That's not unlucky, it's wasteful. But hopefully we'll correct that (Santa, bring Andy some shooting boots)
Still, given all the signings, I thought we'd be slightly better off in the table. One big factor is SG being injured. A fit SG would've cracked in 4 or 5 goals already. Plus he's the type of player that can lift/inspire a team. I expected him to be fit and raring to go after the op he had before the end of last season, but at this stage his injuries could be made the 8th wonder of the world, I can't figure them out anywho. If longer term we need to replace him, you're talking 40 to 50Mill to get someone of the same stature. Adam is doing a good job, but it was never intended that he would figure so prominently. We need a FIT SG.
So all in all, to be sitting were we are, think KK won't be unhappy, but he will want to push on, try to go on a decent run, turning more of the chances we create into goals!!!