Reality Check

boah, I really enjoyed the posts on this site a few month ago. But it's getting worse and worse..

yeah, it's great from some posters. It's really easy to moan every time we didn't win. Come on, that's pathetic...

Everyone knows that we don't have a TOP4 squad THIS year. But again and again you are just playing Fifa Manager and start to tell the whole world who Liverpool should sign and who isn't good enough to wear the red shirt...

But think about your own attitude. If we win erverything is fine but as soon as we don't win you blame everyone..including KK. And what would we do if he resigns?! ...moan about the new manager...

GET BEHIND THE TEAM! That's what's all about being a SUPPORTER. Surley, erveryone can have a different opinion about the formation, who should play...

But be honest, who would join Liverpool at the moment?! Forget all the world class players. They are just not INTERESTED yet. Simple because we are not the big spending team everyone thinks we are and we arent't as succesful as many many other teams. We spend much money last summer but no one was a player in this category. We have spend on young expensive talent in order to refresh the squad. To bulid a new core of players with the desire to wear the read shirt. And until the day we win the league nothing will change. Forget to dream all the day because until this moment Liverpool will always just get the second rated targets at most...

And don't ask the ed's the same question all day...Hazard? He could join Real Madrid!Lucas?He could play in so may teams across Europe!And I could go on. We were just linked with players ManU, Barcelona, Real Madrid etc. wouldn't even have a look at youtube... That's sad but the truth. We have to produce our own world class players in the youth. But these players are not ready yet. Give them one or two years and if they are good enough they will play. kenny knows the way how to introduce youth players in the first team squad and he has done it before... If he thinks they are ready, then they will get some playing time!!

Just one example. Everyone had high hopes of Pacheco! But he doesnt even get a game from the start and is just a sub for a midtable team. He hasn't set the world on fire with his coming ons. But so many posters were just moaning that he wasn't given a few games. He is just not good enough!


Just some facts reagarding the used formation:
- Carroll played the full 90 minutes against City and to be honest, he looked tired an the end. Why start him? Is he the new fitness wonder?
- we haven't played 5 at the back, we had two great wing backs and our game had some great width
- Kuyt was playing, because he is still a full international and we had no other choice
- Bellamy isn't able to play two games in the row and we have to be careful with him
- other attacking option? Maxi? maybe he will leave the Reds. Others? Besides some youth players I don't see one. And to be honest, we have good youth players but a powerful striker? No!

Hope everyone thinks just a little bit more realistic. I'm as frustrated as you that we haven't won but I think we tried the best to do it. With a little bit more luck one or two chance would have gone in and everything would be fine. But as long as we don't improve the squad with some gems, players who were not linked with all the top teams in Europe, we will always just fight to be in the TOP 4...

realty check for everyone

Stifler

Excellent post Stifler.
Good to see some still rowing against the kneejerk torrent.


How's you mom?

Here some people at the start of the season said we will be doing well to get top 4 they were slated and said we should be aiming for the league who are the knee jerkers

The torrent I refer to is the one that's in full flow today and any other day we don't win.
Only a matter of time I fear that some who backed Rafa so well will start to turn on Kenny.
Hopefully some good cup results will stop that.
Seriously though.
We drew with Stoke. Hardly a shock result is it.
Most people on here were saying it would be a tight game.
Why now the outcry?

I could have sworn we beat City a few days ago,
But hey let's not let that distract from the horror of a draw with Stoke!

 Two questions. 1. What's this about Stiflers Mum. 2. Who does Corbally mean when he talks about "some people"? I said we'd struggle to get into the top four. We are doing, and we still may well get there.

I agree with most of what you have said. The whole time i have had faith in Kenny.
I have had faith in all the new players but i have to say im happy with all the players but Downing. Downing 27/28 years old, which means no more potential, Not providing/ doing his job. Im sick of people saying we have wasted 80m or whatever. We have wasted just
 35m that is how much we have really lost. We are heading in the right direction. I think we just need to trim our squad down a bit and add a few players such as Higuian, Jokes IMO way better players than him for half the price.

I agree with most of what you have said. The whole time i have had faith in Kenny.
I have had faith in all the new players but i have to say im happy with all the players but Downing. Downing 27/28 years old, which means no more potential, Not providing/ doing his job. Im sick of people saying we have wasted 80m or whatever. We have wasted just
 35m that is how much we have really lost. We are heading in the right direction. I think we just need to trim our squad down a bit and add a few players such as Higuian, Jokes IMO way better players than him for half the price.

Sorry if you didn't understand me about wasting 35m. That isnt on Andy Carroll that is on how we spent on our players and they are worth. E.g Carroll was brought for 35m but worth IMO 15m so we wasted 20m not 35m. And thats even if you call it waste.

Only a matter of time I fear that some who backed Rafa so well will start to turn on Kenny.

Never, well for me anyways. There isn't a a man alive in the world with a greater love of Liverpool football club than Kenny Dalglish, how could we turn on him as a group of fans? He wants best for the club, fans have to be able to see that.

I will back Rafa to the death, I still do on a weekly basis in football debates, and I will do the same for Kenny. The man obviously has a plan for the club so we must, as supportors, support him.

we have already paid big money for world class talent.. we are just developing it!

Never, well for me anyways. There isn't a a man alive in the world with a greater love of Liverpool football club than Kenny Dalglish, how could we turn on him as a group of fans? He wants best for the club, fans have to be able to see that.

I will back Rafa to the death, I still do on a weekly basis in football debates, and I will do the same for Kenny. The man obviously has a plan for the club so we must, as supportors, support him.

Its already happening seen people say we need Rafa back people obviously don't know what Kenny is capable.

Its already happening seen people say we need Rafa back people obviously don't know what Kenny is capable.

That's probably because for my generation, Rafa is the greatest manager we have had in our lifetime (thats not counting Kenny's one year in charge so far), he made us European champions got us to a few cup finals, made us a European giant again and brought up closer to number 19 than the 5 men before him and 1 after him. He brought in do many truely world class players. He is the greatest manager we have seen.

Those of the older generation than mine can remember Kenny having us as Kings of England so many times, the most feared team in the land. I wasent around for Kennys first reign, I was only 1, so I can't comment on it too much, only from stories i have learned.

NESV bought Liverpool and were new into football. We were a club badly needing stability on and off the pitch. Kenny was obviously the right man to unite both fans, players and boardroom levels, came in temporarily and did what was asked. He did the job to such a food extent, he got a full time contract. It was the logical thing for NESV to do, they saw what Kenny went to not only the fans but the club and players.

We are a team rebuilding and need Kenny for that. Is it a possibility that Kenny wins 2 more leagues and his contacts finished, NESV don't offer him a new contract and offer Rafa one instead? Of course.

Right now, Kenny is the right man for Liverpool, (oh god what have I started!!) and will be for years to come. Anyone questioning Kenny clearly is not thinking straight. I'm all for bringing Rafa back, I believe him and and club have a title in them and I believe he wants it more than anything else, but tak of Rafa taking over from Kenny during Kenny's 3 contract is just plain disrespectful to Kenny.

yeah, it's great from some posters. It's really easy to moan every time we didn't win. Come on, that's pathetic...

Everyone knows that we don't have a TOP4 squad THIS year. But again and again you are just playing Fifa Manager and start to tell the whole world who Liverpool should sign and who isn't good enough to wear the red shirt...

But think about your own attitude. If we win erverything is fine but as soon as we don't win you blame everyone..including KK.

Hope everyone thinks just a little bit more realistic. I'm as frustrated as you that we haven't won but I think we tried the best to do it. With a little bit more luck one or two chance would have gone in and everything would be fine. But as long as we don't improve the squad with some gems, players who were not linked with all the top teams in Europe, we will always just fight to be in the TOP 4...

realty check for everyone

Stifler

Another "reality check" thread. Just what we need.

So Reality check. Liverpool FC should be beating Stoke at home. And Swansea at home. And Sunderland at home. And Norwich at....you get the picture. The gulf in available resources between the sides is vast. There's enough money and talent out there on that pitch for us to beat the likes of that sh*t. That's what we did when we used to win things, and that's what we have to do to win them now, or even get a CLQ next summer. To not beat them is not good enough and can't be excused.

It's all very well winning the glamourous games, but it's the bread and butter games that make up most of the season, and they have to be won, especially at home. It's not Championship Manager material, you don't need hundreds of millions of talent to beat a dour, dreary team like Stoke, who bring nothing to the league except the ability to kick everything in sight and sometimes the ball as well. We should be able to beat them without breaking sweat. So if we can't beat them, then we have to ask why.

4th place is nice, but 1st place is the goal here, however realistic it may be. And we cannot rest until we are there and earn the reward for getting and staying there. Then nobody can ask questions, the results speak for themselves.

Another "reality check" thread. Just what we need.

It is. Because from the get go yesterday, not even 20 minutes in to the match thread and people were cyber-booing. It was pathetic to read.

If people want to cloud their own judgement that we should be in the top 4 because it's our divine right, then fine. But the truth is, we are behind quite a few teams who are years ahead of us in terms of a developed and settled squad. The fact we're hanging on this close is a testament to every player and coach on our books right now.

Reailty check well in order at this time because people are getting so far ahead of themselves it's a joke.

Another "reality check" thread. Just what we need.

So Reality check. Liverpool FC should be beating Stoke at home. And Swansea at home. And Sunderland at home. And Norwich at....you get the picture. The gulf in available resources between the sides is vast. There's enough money and talent out there on that pitch for us to beat the likes of that sh*t. That's what we did when we used to win things, and that's what we have to do to win them now, or even get a CLQ next summer. To not beat them is not good enough and can't be excused.

It's all very well winning the glamourous games, but it's the bread and butter games that make up most of the season, and they have to be won, especially at home. It's not Championship Manager material, you don't need hundreds of millions of talent to beat a dour, dreary team like Stoke, who bring nothing to the league except the ability to kick everything in sight and sometimes the ball as well. We should be able to beat them without breaking sweat. So if we can't beat them, then we have to ask why.

4th place is nice, but 1st place is the goal here, however realistic it may be. And we cannot rest until we are there and earn the reward for getting and staying there. Then nobody can ask questions, the results speak for themselves.

At least he has faith. Yes we should be beating these teams but at the moment we are not strong enough. We have everything you need but top four. Once we get top four we will add a few big names in football then we can beat those teams week in week out. Making top four is the hardest part but once we do it I believe we will be champions once again.

You are quite right - we are a way of top 4 I believe, but are in a far better place that 12 months ago.  There does always seem to be a knee jerk when we don't win, but that is hardly surprising.  Ever since I started watching us in the 70's, a defeat/dissapointing result has always had more negative emotion than a win gives positive.  I like to post after every game, and only give my own opinion, as we all do - I guess we all see it differently and have different expectations.

It seems it is far easier to drop yourself out of the top four than to get back in it - and we have shown that.  The thing we as supporters are not happy with this many draws at home against teams who we should really be beating.  I don't mind drawing at home to Stoke if we have given it all, it is the number of draws - and the more we have the frustration will get worse.  Having supported as long as I have (and lets face it being spoilt for the first 20 years or so) I have earned the right to criticise, praise, have an opinion - but that doesn't mean I support any more or less than I did at my first match ('74 FA Cup Final).

excellent opening thread, the moaning and whining will not change a thing

Just out of interest how many people saying this now said we would finish first or second

people are moaning and whining about people moaning and whining............ it will never end!!!!

Just out of interest how many people saying this now said we would finish first or second

Why don't you have a look?

http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,37957.msg1061420.html#msg1061420

Reality check.
1 game away from the first Wembley final and first final for 5 years.
Still in the FA Cup with a home tie.
Still in with a good shout of top four just after halfway through the season.
The only worry/dissapointment is our home form which is a puzzle at times.
The reality check is go back and look where we were last Jan.

Why don't you have a look?

http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,37957.msg1061420.html#msg1061420

hahahaha...

Tbh, that does sound a bit like "pre season optimism" to the extreme tho.. All fans do that at the beginning of the season....
I think I had realistic expectations from the start .. Always said I'd be happy with a top 4 finish THIS season but I never thought it would be mandatory (altho it should be being LFC).. A lot of people at the beginning of the season shared KK's view that it would take time, but now they're claiming heads should roll if we don't reach 4th??

Well, you are right with a couple of facts here:
a) we don't have a squad capable to finish off top 4 (and after Stoke draw and Chelsea winning, that was it, I doubt Arsenal and Chelsea will let further calamities happen to the degree of the first half of the season.
b) Transfers for the future were taken this summer to establish a core

I highly disagree though that
either moaning is wrong, because our destination must be as soon as possible: Top Four Finish, so we must take criticsm at times,
which doesn't make it whinging necesserily..
nor do I believe we're that bad to be ranked when it comes in luring new players: Maybe not in row with Real Madrid, Barcelona,
Milan, Inter - but there are reasonable alternatives in between. Our reputation allows us to strive for players of certain

You talked about the high sum of money invested, yes, and I think everyone can wonder why it was invested in those players, nor isn't LFC as poor as  church mouse: C'mon...

Likes of Llorente, Granero, Luuk de Jong or others indeed can help us. We must eye those alternatives, we can get enough talented  players from France, Benelux, Spain, Portugal or Bundesliga stars if we try hard enough. We can also snap unhappy players from giant teams. It's all possible, and I tell you, we better get rid off Carroll as soon as possible and get a decent poacher.

Cheers.

Reality check.
1 game away from the first Wembley final and first final for 5 years.
Still in the FA Cup with a home tie.
Still in with a good shout of top four just after halfway through the season.
The only worry/dissapointment is our home form which is a puzzle at times.
The reality check is go back and look where we were last Jan.

Amen.