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      Olympics: Cycling

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      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Cycling
      Reply #23: Jul 22, 2012 04:20:12 pm
      JFT96 sprayed on the road on today's stage of the TdF.



      Quality...


      The actual push biking though not so..
      Bier
      • Guest
      Re: Cycling
      Reply #24: Jul 22, 2012 04:24:00 pm
      Least interesting but possibly the cleanest!  No dishonest "super heros" out there this year.

      Although Brad did ride a brilliant TT yesterday.

      Enjoying the closing stages of todays stage in Paris.  Final lap!  Come on Cav!

      Besides Frank Schleck you mean? I don't believe any of that clean honest sh*t.
      whyohwhyohwhy
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      Re: Cycling
      Reply #25: Jul 22, 2012 04:27:27 pm
      Besides Frank Schleck you mean? I don't believe any of that clean honest sh*t.

      And the Cofodis rider.  Two out of nearly 200 ain't bad.

      Well in Cav!  Well in Brad!
      Bier
      • Guest
      Re: Cycling
      Reply #26: Jul 22, 2012 04:31:13 pm
      And the Cofodis rider.  Two out of nearly 200 ain't bad.

      Well in Cav!  Well in Brad!

      Very few usually are caught during the Tour. People like Armstrong and Contador were also never caught during the Tour. Most are too smart these days to do anything stupid during the Tour. But most of them use stuff at some point in the season. If they're smart they just don't get caught.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Cycling
      Reply #27: Jul 22, 2012 04:33:34 pm
      History in the making, how often you we see that.

      Top TV.

      Top Man Bradley, and the rest of the Sky team, the only decent think Sky have done.
      HeighwayToHeaven
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      Re: Cycling
      Reply #28: Jul 22, 2012 04:33:35 pm
      Well done to Bradley Wiggins, the first British cyclist to win the Tour de France.  :clap: :champ:

      Fantastic achievement and surely the winner of this year's SPOTY unless someone does something amazing in the Olympics.

      Also well done to Mark Cavendish for winning the final stage. That was his 23rd stage win in the Tour.  :gt-happyup:

      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Cycling
      Reply #29: Jul 22, 2012 04:34:06 pm
      Very few usually are caught during the Tour. People like Armstrong and Contador were also never caught during the Tour. Most are too smart these days to do anything stupid during the Tour. But most of them use stuff at some point in the season. If they're smart they just don't get caught.

      Not into cycling mate, only really ever used one for my paper round between around 1988-94...

      But this post interested me... Is drug taking rife? Are you saying all riders are on drugs? At some point if not during this race?
      whyohwhyohwhy
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      Re: Cycling
      Reply #30: Jul 22, 2012 04:39:37 pm
      Not into cycling mate, only really ever used one for my paper round between around 1988-94...

      But this post interested me... Is drug taking rife? Are you saying all riders are on drugs? At some point if not during this race?

      It used to be a huge problem but gradually it seems to be getting better.  And not all riders dope, here's an extract from an interview with Wiggins after he first got the yellow jersey:

      Quote
      The three-time Olympic champion, his generation’s most outspoken proponent of clean riding, exploded at the implication. “I say they’re just f------ w------. I cannot be doing with people like that. It justifies their own bone-idleness because they can’t ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives.

      “It’s easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of s---, rather than get off their arses in their own lives and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something. And that’s ultimately it. C----.”

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/9385050/Tour-de-France-2012-furious-Bradley-Wiggins-hits-out-over-drugs-slurs-as-Thibaut-Pinot-wins-stage-eight.html

      Anyway, a bit of humour on twitter:

      https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/227040759331823618/photo/1
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
      • Guest
      Re: Cycling
      Reply #31: Jul 22, 2012 04:44:44 pm
      Been following this years Tour De France very closely. British cycling is unbelievable now. Bradley Wiggins is fantastic. Chris Froome shouldn't be forgotten either. And it's a shame English football doesn't have people with the intelligence and vision of David Brailsford in their ranks.
      Bier
      • Guest
      Re: Cycling
      Reply #32: Jul 22, 2012 04:53:51 pm
      Not into cycling mate, only really ever used one for my paper round between around 1988-94...

      But this post interested me... Is drug taking rife? Are you saying all riders are on drugs? At some point if not during this race?

      Basically all major cyclists of the past decades used doping. Even going back to the days of people like Eddy Merckx and Joop Zoetemelk.

      But what I was saying is that the majority of riders do use some illegal performance enhancing substance at some point in the season, or some not yet illegal substance. Trying to stay ahead of the curve basically. But I wouldn't say it's still as avid during the Tour, like it used to be. Cyclists used to just hook up to an IV in the evening to fasten recovery. But during the preparations for the Tour, to get in shape, no doubt.

      The organisations that detect doping are always behind, they react.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Cycling
      Reply #33: Jul 22, 2012 05:22:49 pm
      Basically all major cyclists of the past decades used doping. Even going back to the days of people like Eddy Merckx and Joop Zoetemelk.

      But what I was saying is that the majority of riders do use some illegal performance enhancing substance at some point in the season, or some not yet illegal substance. Trying to stay ahead of the curve basically. But I wouldn't say it's still as avid during the Tour, like it used to be. Cyclists used to just hook up to an IV in the evening to fasten recovery. But during the preparations for the Tour, to get in shape, no doubt.

      The organisations that detect doping are always behind, they react.
      No not all riders used drugs at all.why do you think it has take 109 years to do this because on the whole British riders would not use drugs.
      Dave Lloyd ,Bill Nickson (both scousers) Robert Millar,Sean Yates,Chris Boardman all were top cyclists but did not take drugs.
      Its no surprise that French Cyclists also did well this year because the sport is now  a clean sport.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Cycling
      Reply #34: Jul 22, 2012 05:24:42 pm
      Been following this years Tour De France very closely. British cycling is unbelievable now. Bradley Wiggins is fantastic. Chris Froome shouldn't be forgotten either. And it's a shame English football doesn't have people with the intelligence and vision of David Brailsford in their ranks.
      it actually goes back to about 1990 with Peter keen and Chris Boardman this is where todays victory started it has taken that long.
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Cycling
      Reply #35: Jul 22, 2012 05:26:05 pm
      Basically all major cyclists of the past decades used doping. Even going back to the days of people like Eddy Merckx and Joop Zoetemelk.

      But what I was saying is that the majority of riders do use some illegal performance enhancing substance at some point in the season, or some not yet illegal substance. Trying to stay ahead of the curve basically. But I wouldn't say it's still as avid during the Tour, like it used to be. Cyclists used to just hook up to an IV in the evening to fasten recovery. But during the preparations for the Tour, to get in shape, no doubt.

      The organisations that detect doping are always behind, they react.

      Wouldn't it be easier then in a sense to allow these things? Then it levels the playing field and whoever is better still wins?
      Bier
      • Guest
      Re: Cycling
      Reply #36: Jul 22, 2012 07:36:43 pm
      No not all riders used drugs at all.why do you think it has take 109 years to do this because on the whole British riders would not use drugs.
      Dave Lloyd ,Bill Nickson (both scousers) Robert Millar,Sean Yates,Chris Boardman all were top cyclists but did not take drugs.
      Its no surprise that French Cyclists also did well this year because the sport is now  a clean sport.

      Sure mate. Because doping use is related to specific countries, and British and French cyslists are different from the others, right.

      It's funny you even mention Robert Millar, as even he's been caught with abnormally high testosterone levels and been fined for it. All that while he was part of the TVM team, and we all know what happened to that team a few years later when the Tour started to fight doping.

      Wouldn't it be easier then in a sense to allow these things? Then it levels the playing field and whoever is better still wins?

      In a way maybe, but doubt that's even legally possible. You still have to put limits somewhere, it's a health issue too.
      « Last Edit: Jul 22, 2012 08:12:29 pm by Bier »
      waltonl4
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      Re: Cycling
      Reply #37: Jul 22, 2012 08:10:04 pm
      Sure mate. Because doping use is related to specific countries, and British and French cyslists are different from the others, right.

      It's funny you even mention Robert Millar, as even he's been caught with abnormally high testosterone levels and been fined for it. All that while he was part of the TVM team, and we all know what happened to that team a few years later when the Tour started to fight doping.

      In a way maybe, but doubt that's even legally possible. You still have to put limits somewhere, it's a health issue too.
      Yes they are different .I know for a fact they are and I did not mention Millar because he had been done for doping some years ago.
      the reason why we shouldn't allow drugs apart from the unfairness to clean riders is the health problems caused in later life.
      Very few riders who doped heavily in the 60's abd 70's lived to draw a pension.
      Tom Simpson died because he like many others did not realise what they were taking could be deadly but that was nearly 50 years ago.
      Stan Brittan,John Geddess,Dave Lloyd,Bill Nickson,Chris Bordman all local lads all clean riders and there careers were less succesful than they could have been if they had doped.So yes compared to lots of other nations British riders are clean and now very succesful.
      Bier
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      Re: Cycling
      Reply #38: Jul 22, 2012 08:17:52 pm
      You did mention Robert Millar!

      Ofcourse there's also David Millar, who indeed, is also British and caught.

      Even Yates is a very questionable person, not just as a cyclist. Tested positive in 1989, but the b-sample tested inconclusive. No coincidence that he had doctors like Max Testa and Pedro Celaya. Then after his cycling career he worked with doctors like Cecchini, Ferrari and again Celaya at the different teams. If you know those doctors then you know they're responsible for countless caught cyclists. Guess which doctors are charged now for the Armstrong doping case? Pedro Celaya and Michelle Ferrari. And now Yates is teammanager of Sky.

      Many of the people running these teams today were once involved with doping themselfs. You'd think that's a bad lead to follow.

      And about the French. Their last great cyclist was Richard Virenque. Yeah, they're so different too. Doping doesn't discriminate by nationality. Such a naive thing to think.
      « Last Edit: Jul 22, 2012 09:13:56 pm by Bier »
      waltonl4
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      Re: Cycling
      Reply #39: Jul 23, 2012 11:19:01 am
      You did mention Robert Millar!

      Ofcourse there's also David Millar, who indeed, is also British and caught.

      Even Yates is a very questionable person, not just as a cyclist. Tested positive in 1989, but the b-sample tested inconclusive. No coincidence that he had doctors like Max Testa and Pedro Celaya. Then after his cycling career he worked with doctors like Cecchini, Ferrari and again Celaya at the different teams. If you know those doctors then you know they're responsible for countless caught cyclists. Guess which doctors are charged now for the Armstrong doping case? Pedro Celaya and Michelle Ferrari. And now Yates is teammanager of Sky.

      Many of the people running these teams today were once involved with doping themselfs. You'd think that's a bad lead to follow.

      And about the French. Their last great cyclist was Richard Virenque. Yeah, they're so different too. Doping doesn't discriminate by nationality. Such a naive thing to think.
      your talking of events with Yate of nearly 25 years ago.If you look at the Inception of Lottery funding in this country and the WCPP the testing these riders have undergone is far more than any contintental riders do.
      Virenque again was a decade ago and France have also be vigilent in cleaning up the sport and its no coincendec the Britain and France won as many stages this year becuase the sport is on a mor elevel playing field.
      Yates wasn't found guilty of doping if the 2nd sample is inconclusive then he is innocent.
      Sean yates would go for a 5 or 6 hour ride and then go straight to bed in order to not eat try and lose a bit more weight in order to get over the high mountains in the TDF someone with that mentality is hardly likely to resort to popping a pill.
      David Millar as I recall admitted his doping he was never actually caught by a test sample.
      I have friends who go back to riding in the tour in the late 50's early 60's through the 70's and on to the last decade all of them were clean most of their continental rivals were not.
      The sport has done well to clear itself and the TDF in particualr has been vigilent in its pusuit of cheating.
      Bier
      • Guest
      Re: Cycling
      Reply #40: Jul 23, 2012 04:38:57 pm
      Those doctors Yates worked with were all in recent years too before he joined Sky, throughout his whole post cycling career. Even Sky now have hired Geert Leinders, who was doctor for Rabobank when they tolerated doping from 1997 till 2007. Why would a team even consider hiring someone like that.

      And I never even said all cyclists used in the past, I said all major cyclists. And with major I mean cyclists who actually win big things, not just every professional cyclist. But it's nice you have friends. I have them too. ;)

      And yeah, no sh*t France have been viligent in cleaning up, but only because of the Tour's organisation. Didn't stop Di Gregorio from trying this year did it? :)

      But it's obvious we have different outlooks on this. Feel free to remain naive. I'm sure you thought the same about Armstrong too.
      HeighwayToHeaven
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      Re: Cycling
      Reply #41: Jul 23, 2012 10:06:39 pm
      Tour de France 2012: Six reasons for Bradley Wiggins's victory

      William Fotheringham

      guardian.co.uk, Sunday 22 July 2012 16.24 BST

      1 Impeccable planning

      Wiggins's Tour win was masterminded by his coaches Tim Kerrison and Shane Sutton. Kerrison broke down the various elements required to win the Tour and was responsible for Wiggins's day to day training, with Sutton acting as troubleshooter and bringing his racing knowledge to the party. Kerrison radically changed Wiggins's training and brought in high-altitude warm-weather training camps in Tenerife. Other elements in the plan included a team built to win the Tour, with a group of strong, talented riders who could ride hard in the mountains or the flat: Christian Knees, Edvald Boasson Hagen, Richie Porte, and Mick Rogers. Another element was Chris Froome, who was there as backup in case Wiggins faltered.

      2 Trained early

      Wiggins's training programme began on 1 November but he did not merely begin riding his bike and bring in intensity later: he rode at intensities he would normally have hit in the racing season, which is anathema to most cyclists, who have always built up in a more measured way. "Tim took the swimming approach where they train the top end constantly throughout the year. He has totally revolutionised the way we train." This meant Wiggins hit the season running and was able to deal with higher training workloads later in the programme as the Tour drew nearer. That approach involved a huge amount of sacrifice for Wiggins and his family, requiring warm weather training camps at regular intervals in Mallorca and Tenerife.

      3 Race tactics

      The other break with cycling tradition was to race less often but always to race to win. That took the pressure off for the Tour, as Wiggins went into the race with a perfect season behind him already, rather than the Tour being the be-all and end-all. It also avoided unnecessary travelling and enabled him to get used to the press conferences and other hassle that go with winning. It enabled his team to get used to the job of leading a major stage race – they had won five such events this year, and Kerrison argued that they were more at ease leading a race rather than chasing the lead. Equally importantly, his stripped down race programme left time for lengthy training camps.

      4 Timing in his career

      By the end of 2010, when he had endured a disappointing first season with Sky, Wiggins's back was against the wall. He had moved to stage racing after fulfilling his Olympic ambitions on the track in 2008, and knew that at the age of 30, he did not have many years left. That knowledge made him decide to adopt a no-compromise approach. He would devote himself to his profession for 365 days a year, rather than backing off in the late autumn as he had in the past. Sutton has praised his compliance to the programme but it comes down to timing: "I said I don't know how long I can keep training hard for, so I was willing to give it 100%," he said.

      5 The perfect route

      A Tour with two long time trials and relatively few extreme mountain stages was always going to favour Wiggins but having said that he did not lose a second to any of his rivals in the mountains, apart from his team-mate Froome, so he may well have won on an even tougher course. But the incentive of the long time trial at the end, in which he knew he could gain or regain time, meant he had a concrete goal to structure his race, and indeed his season, around. Knowing that the route included two stages in which he could play his strongest card gave him an additional reason to build to the Tour and that was definitely an advantage.

      6 Playing field has levelled

      There has been a large-scale clear-out of drug-takers at the highest level of Tour cycling, testing has been tightened up, and the UCI has brought in a no-needles policy, and that in turn has created openings for riders who ride clean. That is seen in various ways in the Tour in the last couple of years: an influx of youth and better performances by French riders, who no longer struggle to win stages. Wiggins makes no bones about his opposition to drug use so it is a reasonable assumption that a more level playing field is to his advantage.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/22/tour-de-france-reasons-bradley-wiggins?CMP=twt_gu
      waltonl4
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      Re: Cycling
      Reply #42: Jul 25, 2012 12:30:00 pm
      Not into cycling mate, only really ever used one for my paper round between around 1988-94...

      But this post interested me... Is drug taking rife? Are you saying all riders are on drugs? At some point if not during this race?

      Its so easy to say they are all on drugs.Brad and the British lads who were part of the World Class Performance plan were tested to the limit and one of the reasons why Brad left it late to come into road cycling was he was unsure how clean the sport was.
      But in the last 10 years big strides have been made to clean up the peleton.
      Armstrong never failed a drug test in the TDF and its wrong to throw out allegations without proof.
      The use of drugs is mainly to aid recovery so the rider is fresh to either race the following day or train harder its not a case of taking a pill and storming off up a mountain.The 50'60'70's were all pill poppers then during the 80's and on the chemicals became more "intersting".
      BLood doping using your own fresh blood was one of the clever waysof passing drug tests.
      whyohwhyohwhy
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      Men's Olympic Road Race
      Reply #43: Jul 28, 2012 01:24:02 pm
      About half way through the Men's Road Race today, there's a large group away and lots of attacks springing out of the peleton.

      Looks like the race is on!

      Bit disappointed with the lack of information available, hardly any time splits or details of where the groups are on the road.
      whyohwhyohwhy
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      Re: Cycling
      Reply #44: Jul 28, 2012 02:31:34 pm
      Bernie Eisel helping the GB lads out.  Well in Bernie!
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
      • Guest
      Re: Cycling
      Reply #45: Jul 28, 2012 02:38:33 pm
      Bernie Eisel helping the GB lads out.  Well in Bernie!

      Where do you think this one will end?

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