One point better off than last season...

I know what you mean but the old adage that you improve when your on top, even in the old days we looked to improve so yes I think we do. As much as Charlie has actually exceeded my expectations to an extent I think we need a playmaker of better standing and or a locksmith type of behind the front men or wide right.

Dirk isn't getting any younger so you could argue a replacement there..

I think we need a couple of fresh faces adding to the squad to give the squad that kick up the backside/keeping on their toes and to improve on where we have undoubtedly already.

Not a wholesale change just one or two while it's our choice rather than when it's a necessity because then you need them to hit the ground running immediately.

Fair enough mate.

And I'm happy to see it's just two or three players people think we need rather than seven or eight like it's been in recent years.

I agree to a large extent mate, but I think we need another striker no matter what. We only have two who are regularly played in that position (Carroll and Suarez) with Kuyt and Bellamy more often asked to play in the wider areas. So while they can still be asked to play up front, it would be at the expense of weakening our options in other areas, and in truth neither are prolific enough.

I would bring in another striker, hopefully a prolific and clinical finisher who's game revolves around goals and being in the box as much as possible. Carroll I would use as our plan "B" in much the same way as we used Crouch.

Adam Morgan.

There aren't too many forwards in today's game that are just goalscorers and very little else. It seems like that has gone from football, it seems like now you have to have the all round game.

Fair enough mate.

And I'm happy to see it's just two or three players people think we need rather than seven or eight like it's been in recent years.

No nothing like that, I genuinely think we are a couple of players away, you get nowhere by changing 6-7 players every year. Two in the right areas and at the right time bring a couple of the likes of Suso and Raheem into the squad and they kick on like we hope they do and I don't think we will be far off at all.

Totally agree with you PD, think a striker, a creative midfielder and possibly a winger (honestly think we could get shut of Downing in the summer even though his form has been a bit better in the cups) and we're pretty well set to challenge on 4 fronts.

Adam Morgan.

There aren't too many forwards in today's game that are just goalscorers and very little else. It seems like that has gone from football, it seems like now you have to have the all round game.

I haven't seen much of Morgan to be honest, but from what I have read it might be a little soon ? Cavani seems to be rattling in the goals, would probably work well with Suarez but perhaps not so well with Carroll. (although two big men has worked for Kenny before) Maybe Adam Morgan as the fourth striker next season? 

Totally agree with you PD, think a striker, a creative midfielder and possibly a winger (honestly think we could get shut of Downing in the summer even though his form has been a bit better in the cups) and we're pretty well set to challenge on 4 fronts.

Think you may be being a little hasty in getting shut of Downing mate. He took a while to settle at Villa, but came good , still hoping we will see the best of him next season..... but not holding my breath in anticipation.

To be honest and I know this is all hypothetical but for arguments sake we only get say 30 million to spend this summer I wouldnt piss around with bringing in three at 10 million I'd go balls out world class player because even one of those to our current side could make the difference between where we are now and challenging.

Then promote a couple of the "wonder" kids into the squad to give them the opportunity to have an impact.

 As things stand, f*ck what the league table says I think we are the fourth best team in the league, marginally behind Tottenham. Yes I know "the table doesn't lie" and all that, but the table tells you who has accumulated the most points, NOT necessarily who is the best team.

 Now people can throw stats about long balls, chances created, post hits and all other nonsense, I am convinced of this. This is MY league table.

 1. Man City-The best team by a mile, if they don't win it it'll be a travesty.
 2. Man Utd-Not a patch on their better teams, but a combo of refs doing them favours, luck and knowing how to win ugly means they're next best at the moment.
 3. Spurs-Dynamic on their day (one of which we unfortunately ran into) but lacking belief. King will be a big loss when he finally keels over.
 4. Us, and we're improving too. Only Gerrard, Kuyt and Carragher could be said to be past their best.
 5. Arsenal. Nice footballing team, with the best out and out striker in the league but still have a soft underbelly.
 6. Chelsea-Shambolic and need a complete overhaul.
 7. Newcastle-well managed but will struggle to match this seasons effort.


 So there it is. As far as I'm conerned we were the 6th best team last season, this season we're 4th best. We've won a trophy and we might win another, we are improving and given a run of luck and a signing or two, we will challenge for a top four slot next season probably successfully. What is there to whinge about FFS?
 

 And another thing. We've lost Suarez for 8 games banned and three or four while he got his sharpness back, we've had Lucas out for over half the season (and if we miss him 1/2 as much as everyone thinks then that's a major minus) and we've so far overcome Chelsea, Man City & Man Utd in cup ties, only one of which was a home match. "No improvement"? Balls.

 And yet another thing. This "chances created", "hit the post" stuff is all very well but the stats are kind of accumulative. Let me explain what i mean (cos I've made a balls of it so far).

 If you are playing Wigan at Home and you score in the first 10 minutes (as opposed to hitting the post or the keeper making an unbelieveable save which is what normally happens to us), then naturally you go 1-0 up and the whole complexion of the game changes. They come out a bit, you hit them on the break and you go 2-0 up, next thing it's a cricket score as their heads drop (the Mancs have feasted on this scenario for years). They've also got the added bonus that if they don't score, the ref'll normally give them a penalty anyway (and crucially they score it).

 Now for us, the minute we hit the post or the goalie turns into Tomashevski (google it if you're young) we all get that "Aw FFS here we go again" feeling, and so do the players. Not only that, but so do THEIR players as well. Suddenly when we get a chance, we snatch at it a bit, when they go forward they can smell our nervousness (or they can if they're within 10 yards of my @rsehole anyway). The whole thing builds up.

 In essense it's called belief, momentum and all that other stuff. We've been bang unlucky this season more than a few times. F*ck me I went to Fulham this season where we played OK, Downing hits the post from 25 yatds at 0-0 with 5 minutes left, then they go up the other end and score . Similarly, Adam breaks forward (should have passed it but I digress) and gets brought down, right on the edge of the box. Suarez goes past Hangelund and gets hauled down. Do we get the penno? Do we f*ck (we'd probably have missed anyway but it's not the point).

 It'll come. We just need to believe, and I do.   

Absolutely spot on those posts Mick

Well the question has to be asked given our league position. But I look at it a different way.

I still think we have the best defensive unit in the league even without Lucas and we are creating more chance than almost anyone else. If we had simply take our penalties and half the shots that have hit the woodwork had gone in we'd be second. But they didnt and we deserve to be where we are; nevertheless we are potentially one Cavani/Torres/Soldado/Huntelaar away from competing for the title.

Thats completely different from the situation we were in last season - even without taking account of the cup competitions, Europe etc.

.... and that is the way to look at it.
Amongst all the sparring and  the debating and the choking  comes a real nugget of opinion.

Crackin' Post Grommit ........cos I can't do TexMex.

Absolutely spot on those posts Mick

And yet I seem to recall Mick post in another thread something along the lines of 'finished 7th, deserved to be sacked' and ignored opposition strength/points gained.  Mmmmm.

And yet I seem to recall Mick post in another thread something along the lines of 'finished 7th, deserved to be sacked' and ignored opposition strength/points gained.  Mmmmm.

 Are you seriously suggesting that this team we have now is on a par with the one which finished 7th? We were shambolic that season and it was fairly clear the players (or at least some of them) had lost belief in the manager. THAT'S precisely the point, there's 7th and there's 7th. Equally, Kenny has had the job for 18 months and deserves to be givena  fair crack of the whip, AND he's just won a trophy.
Just for a second you and others would do well to remember that Rafa has gone, it filters through into every post and every judgement on every subject.

 The team is clearly stronger than it was last season, and indeed has been for the last two seasons. If people can't or won't see that, then I have better things to do with my time than debate football with them.
 

Also just wanted to make the small point that I remember very clearly what we were like last year.

We were absolutely atrocious; the points we did get under Hodgson we were quite lucky to scrape together - even with Torres in the side.

This season, without Torres, Lucas, Agger (for a significant period) and Suarez (ditto) and with teh bedding in of new players we have been unlucky not to score more even taking our penalties would have made a massive difference.)

We're comparing a lucky Hodgson side against an unlucky Kenny side but teh league table doesn't reflect that.

Having said that it will be a major disappointment not to finish in the top four given how much Chelsea have imploded and how poor Arsenal (minus RVP) are.

There is still some hope though the prospect is now highly unlikely.

Are you seriously suggesting that this team we have now is on a par with the one which finished 7th? We were shambolic that season and it was fairly clear the players (or at least some of them) had lost belief in the manager. THAT'S precisely the point, there's 7th and there's 7th. Equally, Kenny has had the job for 18 months and deserves to be givena  fair crack of the whip, AND he's just won a trophy.
Just for a second you and others would do well to remember that Rafa has gone, it filters through into every post and every judgement on every subject.

 The team is clearly stronger than it was last season, and indeed has been for the last two seasons. If people can't or won't see that, then I have better things to do with my time than debate football with them.
 

Just pointing out that you've posted something completely different, opposing your new POV.  That's all.  And it is, when these arguments were made for another manager, you pissed all over them. I find it f'n hilarious your using them now and that's you using them, not the arguments that I find hilarious.

Just pointing out that you've posted something completely different, opposing your new POV.  That's all.  And it is, when these arguments were made for another manager, you pissed all over them. I find it f'n hilarious your using them now and that's you using them, not the arguments that I find hilarious.

 I've already explained to you in the previous post why the "arguments" are completely different, the situations are completely different. I haven't got the time or the incliation to do it again, it's still there if you want to read it. I'll leave it with you.

I have read it Mick and it's laughable that your view changes because of whose in charge over some of your points. 

Lovely wordy posts that mirror what some people said about another manager and you quickly dismissed, saying not relevant and yet now these arguments are, because you like the manager?

 

 I refer you once again to the previous post. This really is a very odd conversation. I've already explained to you why and how the situations are completely different. In the season you refer to it was the fourth successive season we hadn't won anything and we were palpably getting worse , whereas now we won a trophy a week ago . How can you not see that the two situations are different? How very odd, and you roll on the floor laughing at me haha some of you disciples are really funny.

 That's not to say or deny for one second of course that I have more faith in Kenny having success with us as a manager than I did Rafa towards the end, of course I do. I've never tried to hide that (as you've said you'e read when I've said such things) so as such it stands to reason that I am going to be more accepting of 7th (if indeed we did finish there which I don't think we will) under kenny than i was under Rafa particularly as we've just a won a trophy .

 Like I say though do read the post above if you're in any doubts, it's all in there 

6 years of team building, no cups for 4 years and 7th place vs less than 18 months team building, a cup and still in with a chance of top 4 and another cup.

If Dalglish wins nothing for the next 4 years and is struggling to finish 7th with half the team unhappy with him then you may have a point if Micks stance remains the same.

I never once thought that this particular squad was the one that was going to take us to the top.


 I saw the Adam-Downing-Bellamy signings as a veterans to get us thru transition. Henderson-Coates-Enrique as a future nucleus of a potential winning side. No way in hell do I want or expect us to stand pat and not improve our squad beyond what it is now. What I believe we do have now is a solid (perhaps unspectacular) squad where we can bring in 1-2 high quality players and build each window along with bringing up some of the kids that have earned the right to come up and be given a chance.

I never once thought that this particular squad was the one that was going to take us to the top.


 I saw the Adam-Downing-Bellamy signings as a veterans to get us thru transition. Henderson-Coates-Enrique as a future nucleus of a potential winning side. No way in hell do I want or expect us to stand pat and not improve our squad beyond what it is now. What I believe we do have now is a solid (perhaps unspectacular) squad where we can bring in 1-2 high quality players and build each window along with bringing up some of the kids that have earned the right to come up and be given a chance.

The Liverpool Way......You're learning well, padawan

 Unfortunately for the died in the wool Rafa disciples, the real hardcore believers, it wouldn't matter how well kenny did. This is proven by the ridiculous spectacle of people still referring to their messiah and bemoaning their feelings that "but you didn't say the same fings about him did you", despite the fact we won a trophy eight days ago. Unbeliveable it is/they are.

I don't pine for Rafa, I'm quite happy with Kenny, but I respect Rafa and his achievements here.

I don't pine for Rafa, I'm quite happy with Kenny, but I respect Rafa and his achievements here.

 Same here. I respect ALL liverpool managers, and ones which won the Champions League obviously deserve respect. I'm very happy with Kenny tho, we won a trophy only 8 days ago so why wouldn't anyone be? The reality is of course that the discussion is absolutely nothing to do with Rafa (or it shouldn't be), but Kenny's harshest critics both openly and between the lines, keep bringing it back.