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      The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.

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      Scottbot
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #23: Mar 15, 2012 10:59:11 am

      Until Andy, in particular, reaches the levels expected I genuinely believe he's best used as what I see as the Plan-B (I know you may disagree  ;D) but with one eye on his development. To that end; two things... we'll need another striker in the Summer and any additional European games will be a good blooding ground for him. The same maybe said of Henderson.


      I'm all for using Carroll as a plan B off the bench and in matches that suit but I wonder if the board will be so keen to do the same + let Kenny /Commoli spent £20 million on other forward to start with Suarez in the mean-time. Do ya think they will? I hope so but i'm not so sure. If we can just go out and win that FA Cup along with a strong finish to the league season they might just be akin to opening up the cheque book again this summer.

      And cheers i'll be alright it's only a bit of man flu ;-)
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #24: Mar 15, 2012 11:21:01 am
      but I wonder if the board will be so keen to do the same + let Kenny /Commoli spent £20 million on other forward to start with Suarez in the mean-time. Do ya think they will? I hope so but i'm not so sure.

      The way I'm reading it is; even if Andy was ripping up trees Kenny would be looking to bring another striker in. Kuyt and Bellamy are not the answer mid to long term, F.S.G. will be aware of that and will know they have to spend in that area - irrespective of Andy's form or lack of.

      I certainly hope so.  :-\
      racerx34
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #25: Mar 15, 2012 11:31:40 am
      If we take it that:
      Suarez isn't an outright front man.
      Kuyt hasn't many years left in him.
      Bellamy can't play every game and like Kuyt only has a year or two left in him at this level.

      We effectively only have Carroll as a proper Striker for the next few years.
      We will undoubtedly have to invest in a quality striker in the summer.

      It's a similar story when it comes to wide men/wide forwards.
      Bellamy, Kuyt, Maxi. All great players coming to the end of their time at the top.
      Absolute bargains the lot of them.

      Can we unearth some more gems to replace them. We will probably need to
      have one expensive investment in this area, but I'd like to see us find value
      in a player like Hoilett as well. Saw us linked to Marko Marin and Gaston Ramirez.
      These would be great signings on the left IMO.

      I see Banega has been mentioned again and that's a good option.
      Himself or a Martinez would improve us centrally and I think most of us would
      agree on that point.


      Certainly there are options out there in the summer that won't cost us 20-30M
      yet allow us to improve the team/squad immensely.
      Dannylfc
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #26: Mar 15, 2012 11:32:30 am
      Keep the core of this squad together for another year and add two top, top, players and we wont be far off.
      corballyred
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #27: Mar 15, 2012 12:56:39 pm
      Pretty clear we need a top class creative midfielder replacement for Gerrard. With his injury problems over the last few years and i think it's clear to most at this stage Adam is not an adequate replacement.  We need a right midfielder that is also clear Henderson has played a lot there this season and has struggled. In relation to a striker pretty obvious why we need one.  Them three positions are absolute priority if we want to be competing for top four next season.  Pace is absolute priority as well we are badly lacking this at times and can look very one paced
      Scottbot
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #28: Mar 15, 2012 01:18:40 pm
      Pace is absolute priority as well we are badly lacking this at times and can look very one paced

      Definately, it's been a weakness for quite a few seasons now and even under Rafa's best seasons we were lacking in the pace department in our forward positions.
      corballyred
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #29: Mar 15, 2012 01:28:19 pm
      Ya we can't stretch teams much easier for teams to regroup against us. If Kenny is insistent on playing 4-4-2 you have to have pace out wide.  That is why Utd have got away playing it over the years
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #30: Mar 15, 2012 01:53:45 pm
      We need quality not quantity this summer. Pace and mobility are essential in the modern game (it does also help if they can control a ball as well)
      A creative midfielder/someone in the hole, someone on the right and a finisher are needed. These won't come cheap so some good scouting is required.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #31: Mar 15, 2012 06:19:44 pm
      Pretty clear we need a top class creative midfielder replacement for Gerrard. With his injury problems over the last few years and i think it's clear to most at this stage Adam is not an adequate replacement.  We need a right midfielder that is also clear Henderson has played a lot there this season and has struggled. In relation to a striker pretty obvious why we need one.  Them three positions are absolute priority if we want to be competing for top four next season.  Pace is absolute priority as well we are badly lacking this at times and can look very one paced


      Corr, I thought the consensus was Henderson was being groomed for Gerrards spot when that day comes? Am I making a wrong assumption?
      corballyred
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #32: Mar 15, 2012 06:25:33 pm
      Think we need a more dynamic player mate. Like Henderson think he has a decent future but he is not really a creative midfielder. Someone id be talking about would be someone like eriksen
      harrydunn08
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #33: Mar 15, 2012 06:50:15 pm

      Corr, I thought the consensus was Henderson was being groomed for Gerrards spot when that day comes? Am I making a wrong assumption?

      I also think there is reason to be optimistic that one of Shelvey, Suso, or Teixeira will make the grade and have a big future in the CM position, so I don't think that an expensive replacement for Gerrard is necessary at the moment. 

      I think there are 4 signings that we need to make if we are going to compete for the league title next season:

      1.  I personally feel that we need to replace Carra this summer.  I don't particularly trust him to play against top sides, and I don't think that Coates is ready to be a regular starter in a title winning defense yet.  I know Agger has had a better season in terms of injuries, but he is bound to miss a few games with knocks every season, so we need to have another top CB if we are really going to challenge for the league anytime soon.  Vertonghen is the obvious name, but there are plenty of other options like Hoewedes, Hummels, Rolando, etc. 

      2.  We need another player who can operate in the CDM role in Lucas's absence.  Spearo has done a very good job this season, and I have been particularly impressed with his form lately.  I honestly would like to see us sell off Charlie Adam and bring in a player like Mo Diame who has a better defensive side to his game than Adam does.  That would leave us with Lucas, Diame*, and Spearo competing for the CDM position, while Gerrard, Hendo, and Shelvey would be options for the attacking CM role.  Diame is available on a free and signing him would allow us to dedicate the transfer funds to more pressing areas. 

      3.  In my opinion, the most pressing need we currently have is for a RW.  Hendo and Kuyt are both square pegs, while Maxi lacks the pace to be a great option here.  We need a player who has the pace and ability to beat the fullback when matched up 1v1 and force the opposition's central defenders to shift out to cover him.  This creates chaos in the box and would provide the kind of space necessary for Carrol and Suarez to thrive. 

      4.  We do need another CF.  Carrol and Suarez are both solid options, and Kuyt and Bellers are decent backups, but we need a player who is a clinical finisher.  Ba, Podolski, Huntelaar, Higuain, etc would all be excellent options in this role although I don't necessarily expect us to sign any of the aforementioned players. 

      So, that is my list.  We need a solid CB, a defensive minded CM, a top RW, and a very good goal poaching CF.  Should be able to get this for around 40-50M, but then we should easily recoup 20M from the sales of Aqua, Cole, Pacheco, and possibly players like Adam, Kuyt, and Maxi. 
      bmck
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #34: Mar 15, 2012 08:29:10 pm
      The owners have already said we won't spend anything like what was spent previous year. Usually you take what they say with a pinch of salt, you never know what is going on behind the scenes, but I reckon they'll not be far off that mark, but will still put something in the pot, maybe 20mill, then tell KK/Comolli to sell-to-buy to make up the rest. Think Carroll has improved recently but would be very surprised if he's not offered up, but at a big loss that'll hurt the owners, who will then pass that message-of-hurt to those spending to remind them it doesn't grow on trees, who pays the bills etc etc. Would imagine Maxi, Bellers and some others like Aquilani, Shelvey, Pachedo etc. will bring in some more if sold. But it won't be a ManShitty sized cheque that's available.
      Reckon we'll sign 3 or 4. But hopefully at least 2 of really quality. Add this to the expectation that some players will take a season to adjust and improve next year, we then go into next season incrementally better.  Don't expect a quantum leap, just can't see that enough cash is available.
      Would be great if we could pluck a starlet from obscurity on the cheap, who can make an immediate impact. Would also be great if Jennifer Garner fancied, me but that's also unlikely.
      But you never know, there's always hope :)
      waltonl4
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #35: Mar 15, 2012 08:34:00 pm
      season isnt over if we win the FA cup and finish 4th what more do you want?
      Big Andy
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #36: Mar 15, 2012 09:10:02 pm
      Think we need a more dynamic player mate. Like Henderson think he has a decent future but he is not really a creative midfielder. Someone id be talking about would be someone like eriksen
      But someone like Eriksen will just wreck the youth system.
      We have so many players behind the striker in the youth and current squad players.
      bigears
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #37: Mar 15, 2012 11:19:42 pm
      Not a major overhaul imo,Kuyt may go ,but a main worry of mine is Lucas, will he be fit for the start of next season and even though Jay is doing fine i don"t know if he can keep it up.One things for certain we simply can"t F**k up on any more signings,Comolli and Kenny need to be clinical on finding the right players.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #38: Mar 16, 2012 12:04:27 am
      Good opening post, agree with it mostly, but do feel we'll have to invest quite heavily this summer a lot of it replacing what we have and otherwise just adding that bit of creative quality we do seem to lack in the middle.

      Kuyt, Maxi, Carra all could be in their last season with us and leaves us with a central defender for sure to find and a right winger is essential even before Kuyt could possibly leave. A striker is also pretty much a must, even without Kuyt leaving but even more so if he does. Carroll is coming along a bit but I think everyone would agree that 2 strikers is not enough. I also think we're desperate for a creative central midfielder to replace Adam so we can start with a 3 of Lucas/Gerrard/New Guy and play 4-5-1 effectively again.

      Priorities for me: Right Wing, Striker, Creative Midfielder, Centre Back Cover
      vulcan_red
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #39: Mar 16, 2012 01:05:12 am
      Case against:  If we had the money to buy the league we would have bought it already!

      Case for: see 'Case Against'
      lottie964
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #40: Mar 16, 2012 01:08:29 am
      I think a season on for all the new signings should see them hopefully flourish next season, However I do believe we need a 20-25 goal poacher, a right winger would be good, but if not I would shove Johnson in there and Kelly at RB, Kelly is also cover as a centre half, left side is all good with Robinson back up to Enrique and Sterling cover for Downing and Bellamy, if possible I would love to see a Silva type player, sliding in little through balls against teams that park the bus --- Suso anyone?
      fletch_rox
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #41: Mar 16, 2012 02:26:52 am
      The way i see our current (and future) squad is this.

      Key players: Gerrard, Suarez, Carroll

      These are the three players who we need to base our side around for the next couple of years. The best formation to suit these three players is a 4-3-3. For example with our current squad:
      ------------------------Reina---------------------------------
      Johnson ------ Skrtel ------- Agger ---------Enrique
      -----------------------Lucas-------------------------------
      ---------------Gerrard -----Henderson
      -----------Suarez--------------------------Downing
      ---------------------Carroll-----------------------

      This formation includes our best players in positions most beneficial to the way they play. Lucas plays as the holding midfielder allowing Gerrard to roam forward, linking up with the forwards, creating chances and scoring goals. With Henderson also played centrally (his favoured position) we have enough presence that it isn't solely Lucas' role to pressure and stop opposition attacks, he will have some help from Gerrard/Henderson. Downing out wide left to provide the crosses in for the central forward, Carroll, who takes away the opposition centre halves, forcing them to engage in a physical contest. This in turn leaves Suarez (who is currently beleaguered by 2 or 3 opponents every time he receives the ball) more space to run at defenders and link up with Stevie and Andy.

      This leads me to our bench options. At the moment I'd say our strongest bench is: Doni, Kelly, Coates, Spearing, Adam/Maxi, Kuyt, Bellamy. Personally I think the sales of Adam and Kuyt this summer would not cost our squad much and could free up some money to be spent on improvements. I'd like to see us sign a clinical finisher, not necessarily someone who has a great all round game but someone who scores goals. Additionally I'd like us to sign another Gerrard (similar player - i think we'd all like to see another Gerrard..) who could play in the 4-3-3. A goal-scoring, chance creating midfielder to free some pressure from the forwards. To do so I think a total outlay of 30million+sales would suffice. Leaving us with a not to dissimilar side to our current one.
      Big Andy
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #42: Mar 16, 2012 09:52:50 am

      ---------------------------Reina--------------------------
      Johnson ------ Skrtel ------- Agger ---------Enrique
      -----------------------------------------------------------
      -------------------Gerrard -----Lucas-----------------
      ----Signing-------------------------------------Signing
      --------------------Suarez-------------------------------
      -------------------------------Signing-------------------

      Eight players out of our eleven starters are fine.
      My dream this summer would be to sign three potential starters that are getting into their later years and then rotate the quality squad players with those quite old players.

      JD
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      Re: The case for (not) a massive overhaul this summer.
      Reply #43: Mar 16, 2012 11:43:21 am
      Players that will no doubt move on without effecting the squad strength.

      Aquilani
      Cole
      Aurelio
      Pacheco

      Players that may move on that will need replacing.
      Kuyt
      Maxi
      Bellamy

      Fair summary.

      I'd like to see us bring in a proper goalscorer - probably from overseas, as well as another backup striker.  Right winger is a must.

      They should be our focus in the summer - the most attacking positions - as we have lacked not just quality at times - but depth.

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