Will next year really be our year?

I'd have to disagree saint I think we are much further off then some people realise, I keep hearing a goal scorer will change it all, i dont agree.

 We are 30 plus points behind Utd, the last time we were so far behind was in 93 Souness last full season we were 32 points behind them and finished 8th.

We are at least 3 top class players short.

We need a new striker/goalscorer and a right winger.

Then its title time.

We need a new striker/goalscorer and a right winger.

Then its title time.

Would you not think we need a central midfielder

I know what you're saying but "disappointing season"? Really? I think you're dismissing our cup runs out of hand, which is ridiculous.

OK so we've done sh*t in the league but one cup in the bag and another on the horizon, I honestly wouldn't call it "disappointing".

Any season where we win stuff is successful in my opinion.

The league form will come, next season will be better than this one, then the season after will be better again etc. etc.

I actually agree with you, I think we have made progress but ultimately I would swap the Carling Cup and even the FA Cup (if we manage it of course) for a champions league spot. I personally beleive next season is massive because each season we finish outside the top 4 we get less and less attractive in the eyes of the worlds best players meaning were going to drift further away from the champions league football.

I'd have to disagree saint I think we are much further off then some people realise, I keep hearing a goal scorer will change it all, i dont agree.

 We are 30 plus points behind Utd, the last time we were so far behind was in 93 Souness last full season we were 32 points behind them and finished 8th.

We are at least 3 top class players short.

We finished 37 points off the top in Rafa's first season mate, we were only 9 points off top spot the following season. Lot of things can change dramatically in a season.

3 players short is not much, I certainly expect us to bring in at least 3 players in the summer. The problem might be whether the players we bring in are genuine top quality. I certainly think the striker has to be top drawer, but I would settle for a little less from the other two if the striker is as good as we all hope.

I'm amazed at the level of negativity in here considering we've already beaten both Manc teams and Chelsea. Our form has been disappointing v's the rest of the league. Yes we're a bit off but as much as there is over optimism the levels of pessimism is bordering on depressing, honestly get a grip of yourselves, such doom-mongering is unfounded, get enough of such rubbish from opposing fans.

If they are not top class mate its just more window dressing

For the record too, I'd expect us to finish a lot closer than we have even if we brought in nobody, simply because of our luck in front of goal and level of injuries we've had to carry this season while bedding in a lot of new players.

I'm amazed at the level of negativity in here considering we've already beaten both Manc teams and Chelsea. Our form has been disappointing v's the rest of the league. Yes we're a bit off but as much as there is over optimism the levels of pessimism is bordering on depressing, honestly get a grip of yourselves, such doom-mongering is unfounded, get enough of such rubbish from opposing fans.

So you think it is more realistic people are talking about winning the league. Talk of winning the league next season is crazy. We all want the club to win it but them expectations are completely unrealistic.

And everyone gets injuries, all the top teams have had to contend with injuries

Nope I think 3rd should be our realistic target for next season Corbs and I'd be very surprised if we finished within 10 points of the leaders, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility if we added 3 exceptional players in key areas. Saying that we're £70m from a 4th place challenging team is too strong for me, I can see how you can paint that picture but we haven't been nearly as bad as some are trying to make out. Yes there have been some very bad performances but there have also been some exceptional, unrewarded performances that on any other day will get the 3 points, especially if we add just a little quality where it's most needed.

You added the injury part later, yes everyone does get injuries, but I feel we had more adequate cover in all other areas of the pitch other than Central Midfield and Striker and we lost our 3 key players in these areas for prolonged periods of time. Without Suarez/Lucas/Gerrard the level of quality drops significantly in our side as we all know and that needs addressing, but I don't see other teams having their 3 key players out for that long this season.

Ever club challenging for a top 4 place is going to strengthen. I'm willing to bet Chelsea and Arsenal are also a lot stronger next season. With the right signings a top 4 place is a realistic.

We have being sh*te in the league since january the 1st and if the league started then we would be sitting in 18th place

Arsenal have had massive injury problems to contend with and they are still flying now

We finished 37 points off the top in Rafa's first season mate, we were only 9 points off top spot the following season. Lot of things can change dramatically in a season.

Agree. A lot can change in one season and even during a season.

For the record too, I'd expect us to finish a lot closer than we have even if we brought in nobody, simply because of our luck in front of goal and level of injuries we've had to carry this season while bedding in a lot of new players.

While I do think we need players and expect us to sign a few I do agree with this as I would expect the same players to be much closer next season if we didn't add anyone.

While we can't down play the bad run of form we have had I do think because it has come towards the end of the season it has led some to forget how well we have played for the vast majority of games earlier in the season right up to the Cup Final weekend.

I'm not denying we're in a shocking run of form Corbs, but every team has a bad patch, it's just while we were having our good patches we weren't rewarded with the points we deserved, compounded by injuries to our key players and shocking luck in front of goal have most definitely distorted our league position this year. I'm not someone to say this often, but this season has been exceptional for the number of times we've completely out-played teams and been unrewarded, currently the lads are without confidence, without motivation as they've given up on 4th and some of them simply need the shirt rippign off their back with their attitudes but all this does not hide the fact that we have the core of an exceptional team and not a bad squad when all fit.

We most definitely need a striker, right winger and central midfielder but with those in place (if they're quality) I would bet you right now that we wont be out of the top 4. Not simply challenging for it.

With the right players and right mentality, we can at least challenge but getting the right players with the right mentality is a problem.

We have being sh*te in the league since january the 1st and if the league started then we would be sitting in 18th place

The league didn't start on January 1st though and like any stat it doesn't tell the full story of a season.

Another one is at the end of the year after 19 games we were only 2 points off top four and 5 behind 3rd so if the league finished on 31st December 2011 we would look like we had a decent season.

Depends who we sign kopite, thought we would be doing well to get top 4 with our signings last summer, didnt think we would be this bad in the league.

Not many top teams have as bad a run as we have being having since January.

We have struggled too often against weaker teams at this stage for it just to be unlucky. I think the weaker teams have worked out how to play us.

The league didn't start on January 1st though and like any stat it doesn't tell the full story of a season.

Another one is at the end of the year after 19 games we were only 2 points off top four and 5 behind 3rd so if the league finished on 31st December 2011 we would look like we had a decent season.

You make a very valid point. For half a season we were good. We were definitely having a good season. But what's happened since January in the league has been really appalling. Clearly the loss of Lucas is being felt badly but it's clear everyone on the pitch and off it (Kenny, Clarke etc) have dropped the ball. It's such a blow to the stomach especially to the one player who has done well since January - Andy Carroll. Just his luck isn't it. He get's a good break of form and then everyone else around him loses it.

Are we going to have to simply accept mid-table mediocrity

A provocative first post with emotive language there Sean but...

If that's how it ends up what other choice do 'we' have as fans? Are you going to stop following the Reds? Maybe you'll lead the revolt against Kenny?... maybe that's the subtext to your post. Maybe Kenny, a very honourable man, who has done so much and hurt so much for 'our' club will step aside if the best 'we' can do is mid-table mediocrity and you won't need to.

Me? I'll wait see.

What needs to be done in the summer in terms of signings, club infrastructure ect..

There are a sh*t-load of threads which already cover this 'question'. 

With the right players and right mentality, we can at least challenge but getting the right players with the right mentality is a problem.

Exactly right.

It's all well and good using a sabermetric type of approach to signing new players but that doesn't cater for hunger, mentality and the will to win which we need more of in our squad if we are to improve and ultimately challenge for the title.

How many goals has Carroll since January. We were average as well prior to January in the league, at least we were playing better football prior to January though.

We have struggled too often against weaker teams at this stage for it just to be unlucky. I think the weaker teams have worked out how to play us.

Not only that, but I think as the season has progressed, we play according to the level of our opponents. The better they are, the better we play - see Arsenal, Sunderland and Wigan as recent examples.

We dont seem to feel the need to press the weaker teams, reading Ronnie Whelans book at the moment, he said how important pressing teams and hard work was to successful Liverpool sides just cant see that in our current team to be honest. We seem to mark space rather than press.

One striker won't be enough to challenge for the league title. Even if Torres had remained, does anyone seriously think we'd be champions with players like Downing, Henderson and Adam playing as often as they have and rarely/never scoring in the league?

Yes we need a world class striker, badly. But we also need a top class left winger, to replace the Stoke/Villa/Sunderland level player Downing. Plus we need a quality right winger to replace the ineffective Kuyt/Henderson.  Then if Gerrard gets injured again, like he probably will, who do we have in midfield to boss a game beside Lucas to maintain a challenge?

To challenge/win the title we'd need to sign 5 top players IMO. To get 3rd/4th we'll need three.