Is Merseyside Derby Sectarian?

I just listened to an Interview w/ John Williams who wrote a book about Liverpool FC.  He stated that their is a Sectarian divide between the clubs. LFC is Catholic and Everton Protestant. I have been a supporter a long time and I have never felt any sectarianism w/ Liverpool. 

Granted I live in the States and not Liverpool, but still I have never heard that. I do know that Liverpool and Celtic have a connection, but not to that extent.

Anyone know if this is true.

Also American, but thought it was the other way around. Always heard in the past Everton was the "Catholic team," Liverpool the Protestant one. Years ago, I mean. Now, I think it's irrelevant.

It's bollocks.

Never thought about it.

But, I always felt Liverpool was Prodestant, and Everton were Catholic.

May be wrong, but there is no religious tensions that I know of.

It's bollocks.

If DLS says it's bollocks, there is your answer.

Well being an irish catholic iv never had any hassle in liverpool the locals are always very friendly i think its bollox

It's bollocks.

Spot on.

Although I have an uncle who insists that LFC are the only protestant team to wear red as (according to him) in all other area's the protestant team wears blue and the catholic team red.
I keep telling him he's talking bollocks, but he won't have it

During the 1950s and 1960s Everton were coined as the Catholic club mainly as a result of successful Irish players Tommy Eglington, Peter Farrell and Jimmy O'Neill as well as manager Johnny Carey. This in turn caused Liverpool to be thought of as Protestant club, not signing an Irish Catholic until Ronnie Whelan in 1979.

http://lfcstats.co.uk/liverpoolevertonthehistory.html

Being from Glasgow (where the derby is most def sectarian) and of the Celtic persuasion I took some stick for being an LFC fan from a guy at work who was one of these know-it-all football types. Remember him saying something about way back Everton being the catholic club of the city - no idea where it comes from and obviously irrelevant in the present day

Didnt that all stem from there being a church beside Goodison?

No its not secterian in any way

Everton seem to have the larger Catholic following, were i live is near to a Catholic school and most wear blue but that said i don't think it's compulsory!. Wonder who the Athiests support

Everton seem to have the larger Catholic following, were i live is near to a Catholic school and most wear blue but that said i don't think it's compulsory!. Wonder who the Athiests support

Not Fowler, obviously. 

It's bollocks.

Sure is..

Seem to remember (about 30 years ago now) a fashion of sectarianism of LFC and everton fans wearing GR and Celtic scarfs but from my end I have NEVER met anyone who's bee sectarian about LFC efc football.

We're not sectarian, WE'RE F***ing SCOUSE!!

What about us Athiests?

Seem to remember (about 30 years ago now) a fashion of sectarianism of LFC and everton fans wearing GR and Celtic scarfs but from my end I have NEVER met anyone who's bee sectarian about LFC efc football.

We're not sectarian, WE'RE F***ing SCOUSE!!

I remember that too with the scarves and also those half and half ski hats which were common at several grounds, not just at Anfield.

I remember that too with the scarves and also those half and half ski hats which were common at several grounds, not just at Anfield.

Exactly, forgot about the hats! They were everywhere.

There is a sectarian element about the fan base of the two clubs and the city is basically split in two. The red half are winners, the blue half losers.

Other than that it's just bollocks, although Rangers fans seem to think Liverpool is protestant and Everton is Catholic. Bit like the french calling a door or a window feminine, they are not happy till they have put their label on everything.

It's bollocks.

Yeah Bollocks indeed Billy, f***in total bollocks, i grew up amongst all that sh*te, green or blue, proddy or fenian, its every bit as bad as been racist,  not been to Anfield for many years but in the days i did i never ever heard any sort of sectarian sh*t either from the kop or elsewhere.

Atheists ? Tranmere or Prescot.

Everything is bollocks. Favourite word.

My understanding growing up is that EFC were catholic and we the others.

There was an all blue Union Jack and an Irish tricolour in the Everton end today, not that either flag is sectarian but you couldn't have that in a million years at Ibrox or Celtic Park in the same end.

Same as there was an Ulster flag in the front of the Kop which rose for every goal Liverpool scored there in the mid to late 90s and also that you always see the odd Irish tricolour in the Liverpool end too not to mention all the Union Jacks in the 80s.

To answer the original question - no, it's a lot of sh!te with a lot of myths.

Yes it was now it is not.

There was an all blue Union Jack and an Irish tricolour in the Everton end today, not that either flag is sectarian but you couldn't have that in a million years at Ibrox or Celtic Park in the same end.

Same as there was an Ulster flag in the front of the Kop which rose for every goal Liverpool scored there in the mid to late 90s and also that you always see the odd Irish tricolour in the Liverpool end too not to mention all the Union Jacks in the 80s.

To answer the original question - no, it's a lot of sh!te with a lot of myths.

We live in harmony :)the rest of the world could learn from us.My gran was a protestant from Rice Lane  and married my grandfather an Irish catholic ,they both supported the club and religion was never a problem.

Everton used to be Catholics (Irish) and Liverpool were Protestant (Scottish). No offence if you are Catholic or Irish because there is hardly any of that today with signings out of Britain but then again last summer....

Total bollocks. I have family in Ireland who are catholics and my side of the family are all protestant or atheist. All support the reds and religion has never even been mentioned in the same conversation as football as long as I can remember. On the other hand, my aunts uncles and cousins who are all scoucers and bitters, are again a mix of catholics and protestants. Once in the Gents in the 'Albert' in the 70's my mate was aggresively told to take his celtic scarf off or else. He is 5' 8'', I said to the fella, wanna ask me to take mine off mate, I'm 6'1''. needless to say the bully boy bottled it. That's the only incident I can recall in 55 years of watching the reds.

We all worship God.
QED
Or was it we all live in one of his houses?

I just listened to an Interview w/ John Williams who wrote a book about Liverpool FC.  He stated that their is a Sectarian divide between the clubs. LFC is Catholic and Everton Protestant. I have been a supporter a long time and I have never felt any sectarianism w/ Liverpool. 

Granted I live in the States and not Liverpool, but still I have never heard that. I do know that Liverpool and Celtic have a connection, but not to that extent.

Anyone know if this is true.

If you go back to when football started after in the second world war I think you will find that most of the Everton team was catholic and predominantly Irish origin.I would say John Williams has got his wires crossed and in fact Everton were Catholic and Liverpool was Protestant.In those days there was big parades through the town celebrating St Patricks Day and the Orange Lodge.I would say those days are just a part of history now.The Everton captain in those days was Peter Farrell an Irish International.That is my honest memory of events back then.

That’s a situation that existed when the respective clubs were formed one hundred plus years ago, most clubs and sporting associations having religious affiliations then.
If you were to bring up this topic with any Liverpool or Everton fans now, I for one would look on you as some sort of crettin or dinosaur.  Religious affiliations have become almost irrelevant in gereral in Liverpool, particularly so over the past twenty years.
Our Liverpool based contributors will remember the lodge marching around the city on a regular basis, I know attitudes have changes since then and I for one think that we have all grown up a little since that era.
In answer to the original question, religion has nothing at all to do with football in my city!

We all worship God.
QED
Or was it we all live in one of his houses?

Leave Fowler out of this!

That all died out in England years ago.I live in Northern Ireland where it didnt unfortunately.Liverpool have supporters from all sides of the community.Sectarianism has no place in football or in society.I want my son,(whose a Catholic, Im a Protestant), to support Liverpool as opposed to sectarian clubs like Rangers or Celtic.

Heard it a couple of times but I think it's rubbish. For me Liverpool and Everton for that matter are all inclusive clubs and that's what makes them unique. Doesn't matter what religion you are, what class you are, what race you are etc. As long as you support Liverpool with passion and heart that's all that matters. Religious divides like political divides have ABSOLUTELY no place in football.

Never, ever heard anything in a sectarian context involving LFC and the other crew. The very fact that the majority are unaware which club have a supposed religious leaning says it all - no one gives a sh*t.
The services yesterday at Watford had as many bizzies as customers in the car park and the restaurant area, all standing around scratching their arses and doing F**k all.
It's as if the establishment would like nothing more than to see the cities clubs engaging in civil disorder.

Seem to recall back in the late seventies early eighties half would shout Celtic and half Rangers very quickly after the other on the Kop and then break out into Liivvvveeerrrrpool !!!. Always had a half Celtic hat myself (Irish Mother)
but never saw any problems with anybody in a half Rangers hat

It's bollocks.

Correct

Seem to recall back in the late seventies early eighties half would shout Celtic and half Rangers very quickly after the other on the Kop and then break out into Liivvvveeerrrrpool !!!. Always had a half Celtic hat myself (Irish Mother)
but never saw any problems with anybody in a half Rangers hat

I never had the hat but my shout was Celtic. My memory is that the numbers shouting for each were roughly the same although the King Kenny connection might have boosted the Celtic numbers.

A few years back, someone informed me of this so-called divide but it's bollocks. When the two clubs were very young, there was a hint of it but it never stuck. Well, that is my understanding from what I have read.

Seem to recall back in the late seventies early eighties half would shout Celtic and half Rangers very quickly after the other on the Kop and then break out into Liivvvveeerrrrpool !!!. Always had a half Celtic hat myself (Irish Mother)
but never saw any problems with anybody in a half Rangers hat

I always thought that Celtic was a Brother/Sister club to Liverpool, due to the YNWA connection and the charity match played right after Hillsborough. I know other supporters of Liverpool also support Celtic and vice versa.  I like Celtic and watch the Old Firm match whenever its on. I have very deep and strong Irish roots. My grandmother was Irish and my Mother. But it was only based on the Irish connection and not necessarily a sectarian or Catholic connection.

http://lfcstats.co.uk/liverpoolevertonthehistory.html

They forgot Steve heighway signed 1970.

Being from Glasgow (where the derby is most def sectarian) and of the Celtic persuasion I took some stick for being an LFC fan from a guy at work who was one of these know-it-all football types. Remember him saying something about way back Everton being the catholic club of the city - no idea where it comes from and obviously irrelevant in the present day

Met a lad on holiday some time ago from Glasgow and he was convinced there was a religious divide in Liverpool, I imagine because the two cities have social and cultural similarities some in Glasgow find it hard to believe that sectarianism is not a part of that culture.
If an individual were to state quite openly that sectarianism is bollocks in Glasgow the sh*t would hit the fan big time, as stated no one here gives a shiney one.

Met a lad on holiday some time ago from Glasgow and he was convinced there was a religious divide in Liverpool, I imagine because the two cities have social and cultural similarities some in Glasgow find it hard to believe that sectarianism is not a part of that culture.
If an individual were to state quite openly that sectarianism is bollocks in Glasgow the sh*t would hit the fan big time, as stated no one here gives a shiney one.

There is a religious divide in Liverpool by some dickheads mate but it's very small in numbers. Even most of the Lodge round here don't hate Catholics because they haven't got a clue why they're in the Lodge. I knew some lad who said he only joined the Lodge so he could play the drums. F***ing mind bending.

Most of the divide comes from those who wanna pretend they're Irish just because some distant relative was. But for footy it's a no-go. I know Catholics who support Liverpool (me arl fella) and I know Catholics who support Everton (me best mate). I know Proddy's who support Liverpool (meself) and I know Proddy's who support Everton (me ex). Some bang on about Liverpool and Rangers being connected with Everton being connected to Celtic but by and large everybody in the city of Liverpool understands it to be total bollocks.

They forgot Steve heighway signed 1970.

Good spot! The mistake was possibly because he moved from Ireland to England when he was a boy.

A neighbour of mine is an orangeman ,he has the sash and bowler and heads up for the 12th every year, he"s also a GAA man loves hurling and gaelic football, religion is bollocks.

There is a religious divide in Liverpool by some dickheads mate but it's very small in numbers. Even most of the Lodge round here don't hate Catholics because they haven't got a clue why they're in the Lodge. I knew some lad who said he only joined the Lodge so he could play the drums. F***ing mind bending.

Most of the divide comes from those who wanna pretend they're Irish just because some distant relative was. But for footy it's a no-go. I know Catholics who support Liverpool (me arl fella) and I know Catholics who support Everton (me best mate). I know Proddy's who support Liverpool (meself) and I know Proddy's who support Everton (me ex). Some bang on about Liverpool and Rangers being connected with Everton being connected to Celtic but by and large everybody in the city of Liverpool understands it to be total bollocks.

Hear what you're saying Billy and of course there are a handful of F***ing cranks who want to wind the clock back to the dark ages and bring back religious hatred and all it's evils. Not forgetting of course the establishment would like nothing more than to see that mayhem materialise - dividing people and allowing them to do what the F**k they like.
No doubt there are people who would like nothing more than the face of sectarianism to raise it's ugly face in Liverpool.

I just listened to an Interview w/ John Williams who wrote a book about Liverpool FC.  He stated that their is a Sectarian divide between the clubs. LFC is Catholic and Everton Protestant. I have been a supporter a long time and I have never felt any sectarianism w/ Liverpool. 

Granted I live in the States and not Liverpool, but still I have never heard that. I do know that Liverpool and Celtic have a connection, but not to that extent.

Anyone know if this is true.

Not really.  Liverpool the city does have sectarianism in its history, which culminated in the riots of 1909, but there is no real evidence that either team were exclusive to either religion.  I am of Irish catholic descent, my Grandfather was a sailor from Cork who made his home on Scotland Road, although I grew up on The Wirral after my dad moved there in the 1930s.  Funnily enough, my grandfather would have been living in Scotland Road in 1909.  Wonder if he was involved in the riots ? Anyway, my whole family were and are staunch Liverpool supporters.  A couple of my nephews have been season ticket holders for decades. I never came across the notion that Liverpool had ever been thought of as a protestant team until I met a guy from Belfast in London in the 80s who told me he was a member of the Celtic and Everton Club in Belfast, but maybe that was because I was brought up on the Wirral.   Certainly in my catholic secondary school there were as many Liverpool supporters as there were Everton supporters. 

There is an Irish Times article about it here which is interesting:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/question-of-religion-as-basis-for-support-still-contentious-1.1655070

What about us Athiests?

Tranmere

I'm Catholic so I need to change to Everton, no f***in chance!

F**k the pope..and the queen

This old chestnut again! I was raised Catholic in Armagh (atheist now), myself and all of my school supported Liverpool, there was no mention of religion back then ( im 40 now).
Liverpool is my religion, Fowler is my God!

This old chestnut again! I was raised Catholic in Armagh (atheist now),

Do you mind if I ask you how come you're an atheist now having been brought up religious? I'm an atheist too but always have been and never brought up believing in any religion.
Nothing incendiary I'm just genuinely interested what made you change belief?

Do you mind if I ask you how come you're an atheist now having been brought up religious? I'm an atheist too but always have been and never brought up believing in any religion.
Nothing incendiary I'm just genuinely interested what made you change belief?

Basically I don't believe in magic. 😉 I believe religion was born out of a fear of death, and the need for death not to be the end. I believe in science. Science aims to provide proof, religion relies on blind faith, promises and threats.

Basically I don't believe in magic. 😉 I believe religion was born out of a fear of death, and the need for death not to be the end. I believe in science. Science aims to provide proof, religion relies on blind faith, promises and threats.

Well yeah that's my thoughts pretty much to a tee but my point being I have thought that almost from day one.. I just wondered how you changed from believing in on to the other

Cheers though

Not into religion, although my "church" is Anfield, if that makes any sense.

So is mocking or ridiculing heartfelt religious beliefs, is that OK on here?

So is mocking or ridiculing heartfelt religious beliefs, is that OK on here?

Whos mocking or ridiculing?

Nah. In modern times religion was never an issue. Might have been donkey's year ago. The rivalry has nearly always been friendly. Plenty of jokes knocking about. But in the last 5-10 years it has got a little bit bitter..not nasty but a little less friendly than it was.

I used to go to Anfield one week and Goodison the next, in the early 70's. Quite a few did the same. I've been in almost every part of Goodison, Glady's St, Bullens Rd stand, Top tier stand, Park end etc. Saw some good games there as well. Fans around me knew I was a red and I never got any grief. Half decent pies as well. In fact I used to predict Everton would be Pie Champions year in year out.

Didnt that all stem from there being a church beside Goodison?

No its not secterian in any way

I was born in the Goodison chippy, and christened in the church next to  the ground, and have been  a red all my life.  Sectarian, has never played any part of what I think about.  I think about Liiverpool, and let Evertonions, hate us as they will.  (1961)

Sectarianism?
Can't even spell it!!

Whos mocking or ridiculing?

Not you.

But if I defend my faith tradition against the specific (and disparaging if not ridicule) things said on here, I would rightly be told this is not the forum for such discussion.

Seems like kind of a one-way street, although that is the norm in western society anymore when it comes to matters of faith.

Not you.

But if I defend my faith tradition against the specific (and disparaging if not ridicule) things said on here, I would rightly be told this is not the forum for such discussion.

Seems like kind of a one-way street, although that is the norm in western society anymore when it comes to matters of faith.

I'd personally love a conversation  about religion and faith.. I'm not sure people could handle it like but I'd genuinely be interested in one

I'm an atheist and don't believe but I wouldn't ridicule those who do.. it's a personal belief. I would genuinely be interested in those who do and why though.

I mean you may think we have polar beliefs here but not quite.. you see there are somewhere between 3000 and 140000 perceived gods that people believe in.. my guess is you believe in 1 of those.. I just believe in one less than you 😀

A good example of religious divisiveness or sectarianism is the open hostility between the Glasgow clubs which prevails on and off the field of play, nothing remotely similar exists in Liverpool.

Whilst there were some tensions around certain days in the year when it came to Liverpool fc it was very much a coming together of people and had nothing to do with religion.

Nah. In modern times religion was never an issue. Might have been donkey's year ago. The rivalry has nearly always been friendly. Plenty of jokes knocking about. But in the last 5-10 years it has got a little bit bitter..not nasty but a little less friendly than it was.

I used to go to Anfield one week and Goodison the next, in the early 70's. Quite a few did the same. I've been in almost every part of Goodison, Glady's St, Bullens Rd stand, Top tier stand, Park end etc. Saw some good games there as well. Fans around me knew I was a red and I never got any grief. Half decent pies as well. In fact I used to predict Everton would be Pie Champions year in year out.

Longer than 5 - 10 years, started turning a bit nasty about 2001. The "What about Heysel" shout during the minutes silence at the Gary Mac derby ensured the atmosphere got a little bit more bitter.

Longer than 5 - 10 years, started turning a bit nasty about 2001. The "What about Heysel" shout during the minutes silence at the Gary Mac derby ensured the atmosphere got a little bit more bitter.

When you remember how fantastic the atmosphere was at goodison first time after hillsborough and then at wembley the deterioration is pretty dramatic

When you remember how fantastic the atmosphere was at goodison first time after hillsborough and then at wembley the deterioration is pretty dramatic

Not helped by the clubs happily doing everything they can in stopping away fans getting tickets in the home ends. The only time you see blues in our end or reds in blue ends is usually because friends have sorted them tickets unlike in the old days when it would be more mixed. Can go tit-for-tat say they've done this and they'll throw stuff at us but having complete segregation in the derby for me is why it's deteriorated.

Basically I don't believe in magic. 😉

What about a Big Bang?

A good example of religious divisiveness or sectarianism is the open hostility between the Glasgow clubs which prevails on and off the field of play, nothing remotely similar exists in Liverpool.

Yeah we just think blues are scruffs who wear Lonsdale trabs

Is Merseyside Derby Sectarian? No.

There you go, simple.

Yeah we just think blues are scruffs who wear Lonsdale trabs

Haha all day.

Should not even thought to be close, nothing to do with your beliefs, but haters hate, Thats what they live for., they would rather hate Liverpool than support thier own team.  I know F@@k all about Everton, but apparently, they know everything about us

Should not even thought to be close, nothing to do with your beliefs, but haters hate, Thats what they live for., they would rather hate Liverpool than support thier own team.  I know F@@k all about Everton, but apparently, they know everything about us

Hense the old quote - if you want to know anything about Liverpool ask an evertonian.

Suppose it was inevitable that Evertonians would become bitter at our success. We've won so much, bound to put them into the shade...but they are hardly visible such has been our success but it has nowt to do with religion.

Wonder how Man.City fans took the United glory years. Yes they are up their now but for generation after generation they where nowhere in the city of Mancheater. Had some joy with Mercer/ Alison but similar to Everton in that they have largely been overshadowed by United.

F**k the pope..and the queen

Exactly mate.

Hense the old quote - if you want to know anything about Liverpool ask an evertonian.

After the CL final, I even had one of them say we wanted it replayed, where do get this sh@t from, only from their tiny little minds, I used to bite, but now, can't be arsed.  Laughable

F**k the pope..and the queen

Just two nice old people if you ask me...

Glasgow ....if it wasn't before certainly now is and I know who I'll be supporting during his first year as manager.

The man who will take over the Anfield crown eventually from Jürgen methinks .