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      Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)

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      Billy1
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #138: May 31, 2012 10:03:13 am
      Do you think it would be an intelligent move for Everton to turn down Ronaldo on a free and hold out for Messi? I mean why throw in the towel early?
      When you can explain what that has got to do with finishing 1st or setting targets for 4th I will respond.I get the impression that you have not been around when the league championship trophy has been presented and paraded at Anfield so that probably accounts for your acceptance of finishing 4th being acceptable.
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #139: May 31, 2012 10:06:12 am
      When you can explain what that has got to do with finishing 1st or setting targets for 4th I will respond.I get the impression that you have not been around when the league championship trophy has been presented and paraded at Anfield so that probably accounts for your acceptance of finishing 4th being acceptable.

      Don't bother Billy, he just likes arguing. Weird fetish I think.
      bad boy bubby
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      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #140: May 31, 2012 10:18:27 am
      Do you think it would be an intelligent move for Everton to turn down Ronaldo on a free and hold out for Messi? I mean why throw in the towel early?

      Ah Reductio ad absurdum... my daughter used to do that all the time when she was a wee kid; how cute.  :angel:
      Carlos Qiqabal
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #141: May 31, 2012 10:46:36 am
      When you can explain what that has got to do with finishing 1st or setting targets for 4th I will respond.I get the impression that you have not been around when the league championship trophy has been presented and paraded at Anfield so that probably accounts for your acceptance of finishing 4th being acceptable.

      Well the point is crushingly obvious but I'll make it easier for you. We've just finished eighth. We have a new manager, undetermined transfer budget, no DOF, new commercial director, new communications director and have a massive mountain to climb to get back to the top. If I was to offer you the chance, right now, that we could go into the last three games of next season level on points with United, Chelsea, and Arsenal but behind them on goal difference would you take it?



      Ah Reductio ad absurdum... my daughter used to do that all the time when she was a wee kid; how cute.  :angel:

      Who's your daughter? Harry Potter? :)
      bad boy bubby
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      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #142: May 31, 2012 10:55:52 am
      If I was to offer you the chance, right now, that we could go into the last three games of next season level on points with United, Chelsea, and Arsenal but behind them on goal difference would you take it?

      Oh, oh, can I play?

      If I give YOU the chance, right now, of going into the last games three points clear of United, Chelsea and Arsenal but level on goal difference with City Carlos; would YOU take it?

      See? Anyone can use this old 'reductio ad absurdum' when debating but (to be fair) it is usually the domain of the childlike.
      Billy1
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 10,638 posts | 1966 
      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #143: May 31, 2012 10:59:51 am
      Well the point is crushingly obvious but I'll make it easier for you. We've just finished eighth. We have a new manager, undetermined transfer budget, no DOF, new commercial director, new communications director and have a massive mountain to climb to get back to the top. If I was to offer you the chance, right now, that we could go into the last three games of next season level on points with United, Chelsea, and Arsenal but behind them on goal difference would you take it?



      Who's your daughter? Harry Potter? :)
      How do you know what the transfer budget is,and going into the last 3 games level on points means we would still be in with a chance of finishing 1st in my book.I will tell you a little story,back in 1947 we were not even considered to have a chance of winning the league.Easter rolls up and in those days we played 3 games over the Easter.Now if you are as smart as you reckon you are you will read up on the club history and know that we won the league.We have also lost the league on the last match of the season in beaten by an Arsenal player who was later to sign for Liverpool.
                                                                                  Now seeing as you are so critical of other posters how about telling us about triumphs at Anfield that you have seen over the years.I realise it will be so many that you will probably have to start a new thread.
      Carlos Qiqabal
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #144: May 31, 2012 11:05:48 am
      Oh, oh, can I play?

      If I give YOU the choice of going into the last games three points clear of United, Chelsea and Arsenal but level on goal difference with City Carlos; would YOU take it?

      See? Anyone can use this old 'reductio ad absurdum' when debating but (to be fair) it is usually the domain of the childlike.

      Well seeing as the whole point of the thread is "would you accept fourth for this season" and my point was you would have to be stupid not to of course I'd take your (even better) offer. What a stupid question - but thanks for making my original point for me; i rest my case.

      Carlos Qiqabal
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #145: May 31, 2012 11:16:24 am
      How do you know what the transfer budget is,and going into the last 3 games level on points means we would still be in with a chance of finishing 1st in my book.I will tell you a little story,back in 1947 we were not even considered to have a chance of winning the league.Easter rolls up and in those days we played 3 games over the Easter.Now if you are as smart as you reckon you are you will read up on the club history and know that we won the league.We have also lost the league on the last match of the season in beaten by an Arsenal player who was later to sign for Liverpool.
                                                                                  Now seeing as you are so critical of other posters how about telling us about triumphs at Anfield that you have seen over the years.I realise it will be so many that you will probably have to start a new thread.

      I bow to your superior wisdom. You have seen more cups than me being paraded round Anfield so your mentalist views are proven correct. Reading currently have the chance to win the league too. Do you think they would pass up on a guaranteed 4th spot?

      But that's fine - no doubt if we finish second you'll be calling fo rthe manager's head as that is unacceptable. I preume for that reason you were happy to see Kenny get the boot too?
      bad boy bubby
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      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #146: May 31, 2012 11:21:08 am
      What a stupid question - but thanks for making my original point for me; i rest my case.

      No more stupid than your's fella.

      The point Billy and others are making is very clear, I would have thought - especially to someone with your big brain.

      Why accept a hypothetical fourth spot when I can have a hypothetical third, second or first place?

      A point, my friend, that YOU have just accepted and you are right... you'd "have to be stupid not to"...

      Think about it.  ;)





      « Last Edit: May 31, 2012 12:18:35 pm by bad boy bubby »
      Billy1
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #147: May 31, 2012 11:21:28 am
      I bow to your superior wisdom. You have seen more cups than me being paraded round Anfield so your mentalist views are proven correct. Reading currently have the chance to win the league too. Do you think they would pass up on a guaranteed 4th spot? No, because the people running the club have a modicum of intelligence.

      But that's fine - no doubt if we finish second you'll be calling fo rthe manager's head as that is unacceptable. I preume for that reason you were happy to see Kenny get the boot too?
      Maybe you had better start supporting Reading then,I look forward to reading about your experiences at Anfield if you have ever had any.
      vulcan_red
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #148: May 31, 2012 11:36:03 am
      I woud take fourth and concentrate on the cups
      Red Rob 60
      • Forum Ian St John
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #149: May 31, 2012 01:24:00 pm
      I am sorry but befor the season has even started there is no way can I accept that finishing 4th is acceptable.If we go through life with that asperation we might as well forget about ever winning number 19.I prefer to set my targets high than to go for mediocracy,I know some posters will disagree with me but that is their option.

      It's fair enough that you should have high expectations but it's also fair that you should be expected to be able to justify how you think we're going to get there. In fact if you think long and hard about how we're going to get there you'll probably come to your own conclusions as to what a reasonable finish would be.

      Not saying that you are doing this but it is moronic to say that we're LFC and because of our history we're going to win title and the CL without taking into account the damage that has been done to the playing side of the club under Hicks & Gillett, Purslow and Hodgson.

      Problem with that approach is that you haven't taken into account the fact that other clubs don't see it that way any more and aren't prepared to just lie down and let us beat them. It also ignores the fact that Arsenal, the scum, City, Chelsea, Spurs and even Newcastle are starting from a higher base than us are doing all they can to continue to improve.

      Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

      Unreasonable expectations are damaging to the team and the club and make fans look like idiots. At the moment I think there are too many unknowns too many variables and so much change at the club that it's unreasonable to make any confident predictions. If you asked me now if I would be happy with CL qualification then I'd tell you I'd be delighted, over the moon. If you told me now it was a minimum requirement I'd say you were a fool but then I've got no idea how the season will end but I will tell you how next season will go.

      One game at a time.

      So I think it would be foolish to be thinking about it any more than that and keeping our focus on winning just one game all season long... the next one. Pride comes before a fall so I think we should all learn a little humility and respect for the opposition. Having reasonable expectations doesn't mean we should shouldn't go out quietly confident and beat them though.

      What we need is a few years of continued improvement (no I don't know how many), taking one game at a time and consistently improving.

      That'll do for me because that way we progress from competing to winning and that's where I want us. Right now there are too many sides that we need to improve against before we can compete against them as equals. At least that's the way I see it on paper.

      Having reasonable expectations doesn't make you defeatist it just means you've thought about it a bit first.

      YNWA
      bad boy bubby
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      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #150: May 31, 2012 02:36:48 pm
      It's quite simple really:

      If you believe that we've no real hope of finishing fourth (for whatever reason) - you'll accept it.

      If you believe we have a good chance in finishing, at least, fourth - you won't accept it.

      I don't really see the need for anyone to mock and ridicule a fellow Red for believing that we'll finish fourth or better. To say that anyone, with an opinion which is different from yours, is "stupid", "mental" or "dense" is obnoxious and (usually) the first tell-tale sign of a wum.  :-\
      Carlos Qiqabal
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #151: May 31, 2012 03:52:55 pm
      It's quite simple really:

      If you believe that we've no real hope of finishing fourth (for whatever reason) - you'll accept it.

      If you believe we have a good chance in finishing, at least, fourth - you won't accept it.
      ump into Angelin
      I don't really see the need for anyone to mock and ridicule a fellow Red for believing that we'll finish fourth or better. To say that anyone, with an opinion which is different from yours, is "stupid", "mental" or "dense" is obnoxious and (usually) the first tell-tale sign of a wum.  :-\

      Trust me - if Kelly Brook forces herself on you and you turn her down because you're holding out on the offchance you somehow manage to bump into Angelina Jolie and pull her at some point in the next few years you'll have a lot of folks happy to point out how intellectually challenged you are - especially fellow reds.
      bad boy bubby
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      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #152: May 31, 2012 03:58:58 pm
      Trust me - if Kelly Brook forces herself on you and you turn her down because you're holding out on the offchance you somehow manage to bump into Angelina Jolie and pull her at some point in the next few years you'll have a lot of folks happy to point out how intellectually challenged you are - especially fellow reds.

      Trust me if that ever happens again - I'll deserve it.  ;D

      Carlos Qiqabal
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #153: May 31, 2012 04:03:45 pm

      :)
      MsGerrard
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #154: May 31, 2012 08:56:05 pm
      You know what, I'm not going to expect anything and I'm certainly not going to make any predictions., then I won't end up dissapointed in any way, shape or form.
      Rammstein Red Chrome7
      • Forum Youth Player

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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #155: May 31, 2012 10:37:29 pm
      If we are 1 or 2 place higher than last season then that would be realistic.What happens is that the hysteria and expectation takes hold and common sense flys out of the window. Our standing in the Prem league has fallen and we have to come to terms with that. The fact that we could not attract a perceived high profile manager is a stark reminder of how we have regressed. Give the new manager the chance he deserves and unlike former players who have voiced negative omens for the future, get behind him and walk on.
      Dalglish terdar 12
      • Forum Erik Meijer
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #156: Jun 02, 2012 12:48:31 am
      If we are 1 or 2 place higher than last season then that would be realistic.What happens is that the hysteria and expectation takes hold and common sense flys out of the window. Our standing in the Prem league has fallen and we have to come to terms with that. The fact that we could not attract a perceived high profile manager is a stark reminder of how we have regressed. Give the new manager the chance he deserves and unlike former players who have voiced negative omens for the future, get behind him and walk on.

      Realistic? Come off it mate! I don't think you lot realise the importance of winning the first trophy! King Kenny has provided us with our first catalyst towards further success! It's a massive tournament, no question!

      With a few astute signings from King Brenny, we will undoubtedly challenge this season and imo go all the way. At City, you have no morale, a dodgy gaffer in Mancini, at Chelsea, you have no manager and overrated players like Hazard and Hulk going there way. And at United? HAHAHAHA, don't get me started, all there doing is living on their history, 19 league titles, all won by Howard Webb! Baconface is quite clearly past it, not a hope will he fluke another title like in the two decades previous!

      We are the only team in the top tier that you can consider to be truly "on the up". Young gems like Carroll, Shelvey, Henderson and Spearing... Those tw*ts could only dream of having youngsters of that quality available to them!

      So lads, have the faith, I CERTAINLY DO! NEXT YEAR WILL BE OUR YEAR! You can quote me on that!
      Rammstein Red Chrome7
      • Forum Youth Player

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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #157: Jun 02, 2012 07:04:31 am
      You are blind to the reality of the players you mention Caroll only came three or four games from the end of the season.Henderson has flattered to deceive all season, Spearings form declined as the season went on and Shelvey has been a bit part player.  Perhaps these players may improve under Rodgers but dont imply they are world beaters because at times they have been barely championship quality.
      As for the signings who knows. Rodgers will already have his targets and they may differ from the choices we all might want in the team. Our league form demonstrated how inconsistent and predictable we had become, if Rodgers does nothing else then he should at least improve on that.
      andymac7565
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #158: Jun 02, 2012 01:07:18 pm
      yeah
      all day long
      4th would be a big achievement
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #159: Jun 02, 2012 01:31:24 pm
      I think I would accept 4th this season. It would show signs of huge improvement and would help stabalise us for a title shot for years to come.

      With squads like City, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle the 'top 4' place looks a really tough group to crack.
      poolio_54
      • Forum Graeme Souness
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      Re: Would you accept a fourth place finish for next season right now? (again)
      Reply #160: Jun 02, 2012 01:57:11 pm
      Absolutely things take time and 4th n the additional in come it brings would be a decent platform for a title challenge in a couple of years.4th place n not necessaryily winning but no disasters in the cups and I think it would be a very successful first season

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