Fabio Borini (Liverpool > Sunderland)

I can't believe what I'm reading. We might aswell kept Ngog with this attitude.

Why do you have to be such a tool? Are you trying to take over Federer's title?

I can't believe what I'm reading. We might aswell kept Ngog with this attitude.

When superiority complex meets faux outrage.

"This is obscene! Why do we even bother signing such worthless players! What fools consider him to have any talent?"
etc etc

I can't believe what I'm reading. We might aswell kept Ngog with this attitude.

Coming from the person who called for Rodgers head if we didn't beat West Brom earlier on in the season, you've often displayed a tendency for such rational thinking haven't you?

Our game and success is based around scoring goals.... scoring more than the opposition do... making chances and scoring goals. The simple fact is that Borini doesn't score enough. Suarez has scored 29 league goals, Sturridge 20 goals..... imagine if one of those two players had been out for 6 months... could Borini or Aspas make up the difference?

We need better because next season with hopefully a lot more games to play we will NEED a third striker.... a third striker who scores goals.

The bottom line is, there's no use us running down Borini (just like Henderson and Allen before him) because if Brendan wants him here and brings him back and thinks he can do a job for us, I'm inclined to trust that since Brendan has done a superior job so far this season without any of our help.

If Brendan decides to bring in another striker or ship Borini out, then that will obviously tell a tale and I'll be good with that as well.

Just don't understand trying to run the man down because he's not scoring 2 or 3 a game for a crap side in Sunderland. He wasn't prolific at LFC either but we are a much different side from the last time Borini was getting any games with us. I still have hopes for the young man because one thing you can see from watching him at Sunderland is that he has skill and he seems to work hard to be in the right place and he seems to usually make the right decisions.

The bottom line is, there's no use us running down Borini (just like Henderson and Allen before him) because if Brendan wants him here and brings him back and thinks he can do a job for us, I'm inclined to trust that since Brendan has done a superior job so far this season without any of our help.

If Brendan decides to bring in another striker or ship Borini out, then that will obviously tell a tale and I'll be good with that as well.

Just don't understand trying to run the man down because he's not scoring 2 or 3 a game for a crap side in Sunderland. He wasn't prolific at LFC either but we are a much different side from the last time Borini was getting any games with us. I still have hopes for the young man because one thing you can see from watching him at Sunderland is that he has skill and he seems to work hard to be in the right place and he seems to usually make the right decisions.

I don't believe I am running Borini down by saying he doesn't score enough goals mate. Neither do I think that we have to wait and see what Brendan does before giving an opinion on a player. Or maybe we should just stop giving our opinions and just wait till Brendan tells us what to think?

We might get a lot more right, but it wouldn't be much of a forum.

I don't think Borini scores enough goals to be third striker in a team that's success is based on scoring goals.... while you are just happy to agree with whatever Brendan eventually does..... and just not bother about the thinking part

I don't believe I am running Borini down by saying he doesn't score enough goals mate. Neither do I think that we have to wait and see what Brendan does before giving an opinion on a player. Or maybe we should just stop giving our opinions and just wait till Brendan tells us what to think?

We might get a lot more right, but it wouldn't be much of a forum.

I don't think Borini scores enough goals to be third striker in a team that's success is based on scoring goals.... while you are just happy to agree with whatever Brendan eventually does..... and just not bother about the thinking part

You are obviously better suited to question Brendan's decisions than I am. I fully admit I've still got a lot to learn about the game and about all of the players throughout all of the big leagues. So in regards to my lack of knowledge and expertise, I gladly will as you put it, wait on Brendan to tell me what I think, because as of right now, we'd be doing a lot worse if we were letting all of the expert supporters run the team and not the manager.

And just to be straight, I think it's a healthy debate about Borini's goal scoring prowess and wasn't pointing you out as running him down (others know who they are)...but compare and contrast his run at Liverpool with someone like Sturridge at Chelsea and that's why I'm optimistic that there's more to come from young Fabio. And that's why I have no problem with whatever Brendan decides...because I'm not as worried about his lack of goal production because I've seen things out of him that to me show that the goals are coming.

And just to be straight, I think it's a healthy debate about Borini's goal scoring prowess and wasn't pointing you out as running him down (others know who they are)...but compare and contrast his run at Liverpool with someone like Sturridge at Chelsea and that's why I'm optimistic that there's more to come from young Fabio. And that's why I have no problem with whatever Brendan decides...because I'm not as worried about his lack of goal production because I've seen things out of him that to me show that the goals are coming.

The point is mate, if Sturridge was only scoring at the rate he did when he first arrived at Chelsea..... we wouldn't be challenging for the league a year ahead of schedule, we would more than likely be fighting for a CL place or as we were when Borini last started a league game for us .... in 18th place. We need goals to maintain our progress and no matter how hard working Borini is, imo he just doesn't look like a player likely to score enough goals. Four goals in his last 38 league games is about what you would expect from a midfield player.... not a 23 year old striker. At 23 Sturridge was knocking goals in for fun, and that for me is key. Very few strikers "suddenly make it" after they turn 23 and usually they are the big strikers that need more time to gain strength (Drogba types) rather than the smaller strikers who's key attributes tend to be speed and finishing ability.

I am quite happy if we decide to keep him as a fourth striker, someone to play in the early rounds of the cup and to come on once a game is won to give our strikers a rest, but not as a regular starter.... we need a more prolific goalscorer for that job. At least if we want to maintain our progress.

To put it another way that you may understand better. If we are a goal down in the semi final of the CL with 15 minutes to play and Suarez or Sturridge gets injured I wouldn't want our best option off the bench to be Borini, I would prefer someone more prolific, while if god forbid we lost Sturridge or Suarez for a long period of time through injury and Borini was our only other striking option, I wouldn't be confident of maintaining our progress. 

 

The point is mate, if Sturridge was only scoring at the rate he did when he first arrived at Chelsea..... we wouldn't be challenging for the league a year ahead of schedule, we would more than likely be fighting for a CL place or as we were when Borini last started a league game for us .... in 18th place. We need goals to maintain our progress and no matter how hard working Borini is, imo he just doesn't look like a player likely to score enough goals. Four goals in his last 38 league games is about what you would expect from a midfield player.... not a 23 year old striker. At 23 Sturridge was knocking goals in for fun, and that for me is key. Very few strikers "suddenly make it" after they turn 23 and usually they are the big strikers that need more time to gain strength (Drogba types) rather than the smaller strikers who's key attributes tend to be speed and finishing ability.

I am quite happy if we decide to keep him as a fourth striker, someone to play in the early rounds of the cup and to come on once a game is won to give our strikers a rest, but not as a regular starter.... we need a more prolific goalscorer for that job. At least if we want to maintain our progress.

To put it another way that you may understand better. If we are a goal down in the semi final of the CL with 15 minutes to play and Suarez or Sturridge gets injured I wouldn't want our best option off the bench to be Borini, I would prefer someone more prolific, while if god forbid we lost Sturridge or Suarez for a long period of time through injury and Borini was our only other striking option, I wouldn't be confident of maintaining our progress. 

 

I have to agree with this a bit.

Sure Borini has not had a ton of game time here at Liverpool or on his loan.

That being said he has been in the PL for almost 2 years now, its up to the player to make his mark in practice or wherever he can to earn that playing time.

Not saying he can't come good, perhaps he is a late bloomer and I have no problem keeping him or Aspas as a number 4 but we best go out and find a more qualified and ready to play number 3 this summer.

That being said Saint one could make the argument that any team that lost its top 2 goal scorers or even one of them would regress.

The point is mate, if Sturridge was only scoring at the rate he did when he first arrived at Chelsea..... we wouldn't be challenging for the league a year ahead of schedule, we would more than likely be fighting for a CL place or as we were when Borini last started a league game for us .... in 18th place. We need goals to maintain our progress and no matter how hard working Borini is, imo he just doesn't look like a player likely to score enough goals. Four goals in his last 38 league games is about what you would expect from a midfield player.... not a 23 year old striker. At 23 Sturridge was knocking goals in for fun, and that for me is key. Very few strikers "suddenly make it" after they turn 23 and usually they are the big strikers that need more time to gain strength (Drogba types) rather than the smaller strikers who's key attributes tend to be speed and finishing ability.

I am quite happy if we decide to keep him as a fourth striker, someone to play in the early rounds of the cup and to come on once a game is won to give our strikers a rest, but not as a regular starter.... we need a more prolific goalscorer for that job. At least if we want to maintain our progress.

To put it another way that you may understand better. If we are a goal down in the semi final of the CL with 15 minutes to play and Suarez or Sturridge gets injured I wouldn't want our best option off the bench to be Borini, I would prefer someone more prolific, while if god forbid we lost Sturridge or Suarez for a long period of time through injury and Borini was our only other striking option, I wouldn't be confident of maintaining our progress. 

 

It would be great to have another top level option behind SaS but realistically who at that level would be happy sitting on the bench waiting for an injury or fatigue to get a chance to play?

I'm all for it, if we can buy a player that improves on what we have I am for it, I just think running Borini down because he isn't world class is a bit harsh. My point about Sturridge is that he wasn't scoring goals for fun YET, before he came to us. It would be nice to hope that Borini would thrive in our team but maybe you are right and he won't ever be better than a fourth option.

The point is mate, if Sturridge was only scoring at the rate he did when he first arrived at Chelsea..... we wouldn't be challenging for the league a year ahead of schedule, we would more than likely be fighting for a CL place or as we were when Borini last started a league game for us .... in 18th place. We need goals to maintain our progress and no matter how hard working Borini is, imo he just doesn't look like a player likely to score enough goals. Four goals in his last 38 league games is about what you would expect from a midfield player.... not a 23 year old striker. At 23 Sturridge was knocking goals in for fun, and that for me is key. Very few strikers "suddenly make it" after they turn 23 and usually they are the big strikers that need more time to gain strength (Drogba types) rather than the smaller strikers who's key attributes tend to be speed and finishing ability.

I am quite happy if we decide to keep him as a fourth striker, someone to play in the early rounds of the cup and to come on once a game is won to give our strikers a rest, but not as a regular starter.... we need a more prolific goalscorer for that job. At least if we want to maintain our progress.

To put it another way that you may understand better. If we are a goal down in the semi final of the CL with 15 minutes to play and Suarez or Sturridge gets injured I wouldn't want our best option off the bench to be Borini, I would prefer someone more prolific, while if god forbid we lost Sturridge or Suarez for a long period of time through injury and Borini was our only other striking option, I wouldn't be confident of maintaining our progress. 

 

Agree with this in essence Saint, you have to give him a bit of mitigation considering where he's plying his trade at the moment. Sunderland's lack of goals as a team is partly his responsibility but the team as a whole aren't creating the level of chances he'd be getting here. Having said that I don't think he's ever going to be a player who gets near 20 a season, 10 maybe and I honestly see him more of a Kuyt type player than a central striker.

I also agree with FL though I'm happy enough if Brendan chooses to keep him as at least Brendan will be getting what he wants, something I'm not convinced he actually gets in the transfer market. My suspicion is though that Borini will be off back to Italy or staying at Sunderland and we will be bringing in someone a bit more suitable to take up that central striker role should we lose one of the big two.

Coming from the person who called for Rodgers head if we didn't beat West Brom earlier on in the season, you've often displayed a tendency for such rational thinking haven't you?

Actually earlier in the season we dropped points we shouldn't have that would see us clear now. Rodgers made mistakes in a few games and I was annoyed when I said that. He's been a good manager but his mistakes cost us 3 points against Southamption at Anfield and a 2 points against Newcastle with 10 men. Playing 5 at the back, Starting Moses and Aspas in these games.... these are mistakes that just wouldn't happen now. I don't expect us to win every game but these results were avoidable. What has that got to do with Borini? The fact is Borini has scored 3 goals in 25 games this season on loan, he did no better at Liverpool.... he's not going to be good enough next season for us. He's not going to get us goals. He's not going to get any other premiership team goals. He did great in Championship for Swansea and he does well in U21 football, but this isn't Championship or U21 it is the premiership, unless Borini gets better and gets better quickly I very much doubt he will stay a Liverpool player. Before anybody on here blames the service he has had, he has had 45 shots for Sunderland.

It would be great to have another top level option behind SaS but realistically who at that level would be happy sitting on the bench waiting for an injury or fatigue to get a chance to play?

But that is my point mate.... next season we will have a lot more games to play(hopefully) with CL games and our third striker will have to play a lot of games. This season we have been lucky enough(?) that we got knocked out of the cups early, our strikers have missed few games through injury (touch wood) so our lack of a prolific third striker has had no real impact .... next season it will, with or without injuries.

We could be playing 60+ games next season, so unless we plan on failure in the cups we need a squad capable of coping with the extra games.   

It would be great to have another top level option behind SaS but realistically who at that level would be happy sitting on the bench waiting for an injury or fatigue to get a chance to play?

We don't necessarily need to sign an out an out striker. We need to go and get a tweener, someone who can play as a number 9 but also be very effective off of the wing in a 4-3-3. A player like Luis Muriel would certainly fit the bill. Borini is a hard worker and he has the odd goal in him BUT for me he is a long way short of what we need if we're going to replicate the kind of season we are having this year whilst competing in Europe. He's a clever player but he doesn't really have any truly outstanding features. He isn't especially quick, he's not got abag of tricks to go past defenders, he isn't the strongest and neither does he possess the passing instincts of a player like Coutinho. I don't think posters are being out of order if they question his ability to be a top player at LFC because he does (for the most part) look like the club overpaid for him.

We don't necessarily need to sign an out an out striker. We need to go and get a tweener, someone who can play as a number 9 but also be very effective off of the wing in a 4-3-3. A player like Luis Muriel would certainly fit the bill. Borini is a hard worker and he has the odd goal in him BUT for me he is a long way short of what we need if we're going to replicate the kind of season we are having this year whilst competing in Europe. He's a clever player but he doesn't really have any truly outstanding features. He isn't especially quick, he's not got abag of tricks to go past defenders, he isn't the strongest and neither does he possess the passing instincts of a player like Coutinho. I don't think posters are being out of order if they question his ability to be a top player at LFC because he does (for the most part) look like the club overpaid for him.

Vela and Dos Santos would both fit this description.  Both of them have been deployed as CF/ST at times this year in Spain, and both have been scoring and creating loads of goals over the last two seasons.  They are both still young but have plenty of top level experience.  I also think that they both qualify as home grown players due to them being registered with Arsenal and Tottenham for lengthy spells prior to turning 21 (but I could be wrong on this part).  Either one of these two would be good options in my opinion.

I still rate Borini and I'm excited for the lad to get a chance to prove himself here next season, but I wouldn't say no to another quality attacking player coming in. 

If we forget about the 3 goals in 25 games and look more closely at his shots, he's had 45. How do you get the nickname goal machine and score 3 goals from  45 shots.  It's got to be some kind of sarcasm. Sturridge has had 20 goals from from 89 shots. If you look at the goal to shot ratio of Sturridge and Borini,  he is nowhere near capable of covering Sturridge let alone Suarez.  If Sturridge scored just 6 and not 20 from his 89 shots, which would be the equivalent based on Borini shot to goal ratio. .. we'd be calling for a new Striker, not saying he could be 3rd striker,  since when did we have such a tolerating attitude towards andy carroll or Robbie Keane.   How can liverpool fans who know we win games by out scoring opponents 4-2 or 5-3... etc.... think Borini can get even a place on the bench. Rodgers won't come out and say it but I don't think he will be in our plans next season.  Fabio is 23, not 18  or 20... etc... it's not like he's a young player anymore. If Yesil is fit next season I'd have him ahead of Borini. One thing that is important to remember is that when playing in Europe 3rd choice striker is going to have a lot of football. 4 strikers is a minimum not a ideal amount.  Ideally you would have 4 good strikers and 1 or 2 that know they are not as talented or are younger waiting for an opportunity. These people saying we can't keep a 3rd striker happy on the bench are talking nonsense. Since when has any club had just two strikers and done well in Europe. Even Chelsea have Ba and Torres as 3rd and 4th. Both of which are better than Borini and Aspas. We are competing with Chelsea because we don't have European games,  that will change next season so our options need to be better.

If we forget about the 3 goals in 25 games and look more closely at his shots, he's had 45. How do you get the nickname goal machine and score 3 goals from  45 shots.  It's got to be some kind of sarcasm. Sturridge has had 20 goals from from 89 shots. If you look at the goal to shot ratio of Sturridge and Borini,  he is nowhere near capable of covering Sturridge let alone Suarez.  If Sturridge scored just 6 and not 20 from his 89 shots, which would be the equivalent based on Borini shot to goal ratio. .. we'd be calling for a new Striker, not saying he could be 3rd striker,  since when did we have such a tolerating attitude towards andy carroll or Robbie Keane.   How can liverpool fans who know we win games by out scoring opponents 4-2 or 5-3... etc.... think Borini can get even a place on the bench. Rodgers won't come out and say it but I don't think he will be in our plans next season.  Fabio is 23, not 18  or 20... etc... it's not like he's a young player anymore. If Yesil is fit next season I'd have him ahead of Borini. One thing that is important to remember is that when playing in Europe 3rd choice striker is going to have a lot of football. 4 strikers is a minimum not a ideal amount.  Ideally you would have 4 good strikers and 1 or 2 that know they are not as talented or are younger waiting for an opportunity. These people saying we can't keep a 3rd striker happy on the bench are talking nonsense. Since when has any club had just two strikers and done well in Europe. Even Chelsea have Ba and Torres as 3rd and 4th. Both of which are better than Borini and Aspas. We are competing with Chelsea because we don't have European games,  that will change next season so our options need to be better.

For F**k sake.

If we forget about the 3 goals in 25 games and look more closely at his shots, he's had 45. How do you get the nickname goal machine and score 3 goals from  45 shots.  It's got to be some kind of sarcasm.

For the first 2/3 of the season he was being deployed mostly as a wide midfielder.  It has only been more recently that he has been played as their main striker.  Also, he is playing in a team that struggles to create good chances from open play, so many of his shots have been speculative efforts from outside the box.  He certainly has a lot of room for improvement, particularly in his link up play and decision making, but he is a much better player than you and many others are giving him credit for. 

Even Chelsea have Ba and Torres as 3rd and 4th.

Torres is Chelsea's 2nd choice striker, and Ba is the 3rd choice.  Schurrle is not a striker, and Mourinho has only been playing him at CF to try to back his claims that he needs Roman to give him even more money to buy new players.  Mourinho is like a spoiled child who always wants the popular new toy.  He has over 200M worth of attacking talent at his disposal and yet he still complains that he doesn't have good enough players to score goals!!  F***ing joke he is!!

BR has shown that he can build players up and get the best out of them, namely Hendo, Sturridge, and Coutinho.  Let's not write off Borini until he has had a proper chance under the manager who brought him in.

I think we should be patient for another season and give the man a chance , remember we have a lot more games to play next season and league cup and fa cup games depending how far we go could be Borini's bread and butter for us . He's not lazy and with the right feed he could bang in a fine few goals . If he doesn't step up to the mark at that stage Rodgers will boot him out .

For F**k sake.

 

3 goals in 25 games is all I got from that FMS.

If we forget about the 3 goals in 25 games and look more closely at his shots, he's had 45. How do you get the nickname goal machine and score 3 goals from  45 shots.  It's got to be some kind of sarcasm. Sturridge has had 20 goals from from 89 shots. If you look at the goal to shot ratio of Sturridge and Borini,  he is nowhere near capable of covering Sturridge let alone Suarez.  If Sturridge scored just 6 and not 20 from his 89 shots, which would be the equivalent based on Borini shot to goal ratio. .. we'd be calling for a new Striker, not saying he could be 3rd striker,  since when did we have such a tolerating attitude towards andy carroll or Robbie Keane.   How can liverpool fans who know we win games by out scoring opponents 4-2 or 5-3... etc.... think Borini can get even a place on the bench. Rodgers won't come out and say it but I don't think he will be in our plans next season.  Fabio is 23, not 18  or 20... etc... it's not like he's a young player anymore. If Yesil is fit next season I'd have him ahead of Borini. One thing that is important to remember is that when playing in Europe 3rd choice striker is going to have a lot of football. 4 strikers is a minimum not a ideal amount.  Ideally you would have 4 good strikers and 1 or 2 that know they are not as talented or are younger waiting for an opportunity. These people saying we can't keep a 3rd striker happy on the bench are talking nonsense. Since when has any club had just two strikers and done well in Europe. Even Chelsea have Ba and Torres as 3rd and 4th. Both of which are better than Borini and Aspas. We are competing with Chelsea because we don't have European games,  that will change next season so our options need to be better.

That must be some strong sh*t that mate.

I reckon Borini must've shagged Riba's missus or something.