West Brom 3-0 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debate

Bad start, but never thought this season was going to be a stroll. We've had a few unsettled seasons and now with yet another new manager, it's again gonna take time. Course we need to be positive, but realistic too. Just hope we can get the act together cause the first five games are going to be VERY tough.

Dissappointing though to see us collapse after Dagger went off, Christ that sh*t is hard to stomach.

And somewhat disillusioned given last season we didn't score enough goals and were wasteful in front of goal - so that's what 'deja vu' kicking you in the balls feels like   Who is going to score 25 for us this year? Borini/Allen could turn out OK - but we NEED a striker more than anything else. If Rodgers doesn't fancy Carroll that situation needs to get sorted out quick f**king smart and get someone in who he will play.  Kuyt and Bellers ain't round no more either.

The new system is gonna tale time to bed down. And even when we settle into it, need to work on other qualities, included guts (not collapsing when behind), getting results when playing sh*te etc etc etc. Nice passing ain't enough. Reckon we're in for more fare from last season, some decent results, some poor ones, not a lot of consistency.  Can handle that though if we are making progress.

Up front just hope he either gives Carroll a run of games, or moves him on - one or the other.  He started to play well end of last season, showed some decent form. Can't afford to have him warming the bench again. We need someone to score us some goals.

I think that's what hurts the most.

After all the deadwood shifted, the new signings, the new system, all the positive talk - that game was a carbon copy of our last season. More or less

I think that's what hurts the most.

After all the deadwood shifted, the new signings, the new system, all the positive talk - that game was a carbon copy of our last season. More or less

Downing and GJ put a number of crosses into box when there is not areal threat. Aren't we supposed to keep the ball and play short and simple passes until an opening arises?

Downing and GJ put a number of crosses into box when there is not areal threat. Aren't we supposed to keep the ball and play short and simple passes until an opening arises?

That's the idea yes, but it will take time for the players to remember this.

On the deadwood - could not believe Joe Cole coming on and getting injured after 15 mins or whatever. That was embarressing. Doing well in France doesn't mean sh*t. And it does worry me that Rogers would have someone like him in his plans

It is plain silly to blame the ref for the WBA defeat. It is also wrong to Judge Rodgers after one game. However, i cant help feel that Rodgers already looks way out his depth. I hope my fears are unfounded by Christmas. It is obvious that the man needs time to settle in. Rodgers certainly knows how to talk the talk. Its just that his tactics did not live up to his hype and silky media skills.

Even with 10 men we should have put on a better show against WBA. Not once did i feel we had a chance of getting back in the game. Damage limitation soon took over from any thoughts of getting back in the game.

My concern when Rodgers was appointed was his selection suited FSG down to the ground. Lets bring in a young manager who has achived what exactly? Rodgers had achieved no more than Hodgson had had prior to us employing him. It seems that both managers where considered to manage LFC on the back of a good run, [all be it a short run], of results for their respective clubs. In my opinion not enough of a proven record to manage LFC.

It is my belief that FSG haven't the first clue about what they are doing. [I have been of the opinion that FSG are clueless since they gave Kenny a three year contract]. In Rodgers though they have a manager who would not be demanding the high priced players that are required to make us a force again. If FSG had brought Rafa back they would have had at least 60% of our fan base demanding his support from FSG in the transfer market. Maybe that is why Rafa was never once considered? Maybe Rafa would have had too much power?

I am not saying, get rid of Rodgers after one game. I am simply saying that i have little to cling to at the moment regarding things getting a whole lot better in a hurry.
Let us all hope that a win against Man city will have doubters like me thinking twice. Fingers crossed, that will happen, its just that right now i cant see it happening.

The question is isn't Borini the striker, why is he playing at the side?.. While Suarez should be playing behind striker, what is he doing up front?.. I thot Borini and Suarez should switch position.. Tactical issue..

Hurts to lose any game but in reality a new manager and team additions will take a while to gel, I believe we do have the players to score and hurt defences ,the midfield needs a settled line up to get an understanding with each other and not a different line up each week

The question is isn't Borini the striker, why is he playing at the side?.. While Suarez should be playing behind striker, what is he doing up front?.. I thot Borini and Suarez should switch position.. Tactical issue..

Agree in part. I wrote a real long post last night on the verge of falling asleep how I think the front three were set up wrong yesterday. Suarez is the player to take a man on, Borini isn't and shouldn't be playing in a position where he's given the ball to run at a defender. He's better suited to making good runs in the box than he is trying to be a creator. Suarez is kind of the opposite in that he's very creative but also wasteful. Borini in the middle and Suarez on the right is what I'd have done. We definitely need a new LW though. That cannot be denied.

Agree in part. I wrote a real long post last night on the verge of falling asleep how I think the front three were set up wrong yesterday. Suarez is the player to take a man on, Borini isn't and shouldn't be playing in a position where he's given the ball to run at a defender. He's better suited to making good runs in the box than he is trying to be a creator. Suarez is kind of the opposite in that he's very creative but also wasteful. Borini in the middle and Suarez on the right is what I'd have done. We definitely need a new LW though. That cannot be denied.

We have new LW.. Assaidi..

One thing I forgot is that we play Hearts on Thursday. I know it wont be ideal, but I would like us to play pretty much our starting PL team, maybe barring a couple, but hopefully we can get a good win under our belts away from home and may restore the slightest bit of confidence into our players before Sunday. Also City looked very shaky today, maybe just first game etc. but I'm not ruling us out of that match.

If we officiate the game by the textbook, then yes.. both were penalties and Agger correctly received a red card (albeit, one could argue that the Agger foul began just outside the box). By the textbook, yes we could say the game was lost due to our failings. However, the reality is, football is not played by the textbook.

This is why we call them "soft" and "harsh" decisions. The norm is that these incidents would not have warranted penalties and a red card. Most referree decisions would not have gone that way at all. It's the inconsistency that makes these decisions controversial. This is game 1 - How many times will we see other fouls from the last defender which do not result in a red card this season? How many times will we see the slightest clip of the foot not result in a penalty?? and more so, how many times do we see these decisions go against Liverpool? (and for that matter, the amount of times Man Utd receive favourable treatment).

Phil Dowd was determined to see Liverpool lose out yesterday. I've not watched a premier league game with such dubious decisions for many years.

* Red card for Agger ("technically" yes, but as above, harsh given that so many times this would barely receive a yellow. He didn't take out his man. He just leant on Long's back.. and Long tumbled)
* 1st penalty (fine if in area (albeit Long went down for it) but dubious nonetheless)
* 2nd penalty (looked to me like this was to make up for the fact that Long missed! 'give them another chance' Very, very soft!)

Are referees ever investigated? Phil Dowd looked like he was a man on a mission..

Phil Dowd isn't someone who is on our mailing list at Christmas, but he got the main decisions right yesterday. There's nothing to investigate him over.

Shane Long is an honest player, he's no Klinsmann, and doesn't go down unless he is fouled, which he was. We know that many such incidents won't be punished this season, but that doesn't make the decisions given in the WBA game wrong. We'll get our share of them later on, and hopefully the ref will make the right decisions then too.

Most referree decisions would not have gone that way at all.

Then most referees are wrong.

It's the inconsistency that makes these decisions controversial.

That's why when a referee acts according to the rules, he must be praised, not the other way round.

I'm not even saying it was a good game by Phil Dowd, but he was right about the penalties.

Did Joe Cole get subbed?  I was in such a state I had smashed the computer monitor by then

Doesn't seem any better 24 hours on, but I think we did have one really poor start to a season a few years back and still ended up 3rd (trying, really trying to be positive).

Did Joe Cole get subbed?  I was in such a state I had smashed the computer monitor by then

Doesn't seem any better 24 hours on, but I think we did have one really poor start to a season a few years back and still ended up 3rd (trying, really trying to be positive).

Yes - he lasted 10 mins

Yes - he lasted 10 mins

Crikes!!  (and double crikes that he got on before Andy!)

How can any one say Dowd got both penalty decisions right?

When Agger first made contact with Long it was outside the box.

That was the foul, so by the letter of the law it should have been a free kick.

Phil Dowd isn't someone who is on our mailing list at Christmas, but he got the main decisions right yesterday. There's nothing to investigate him over.

Shane Long is an honest player, he's no Klinsmann, and doesn't go down unless he is fouled, which he was. We know that many such incidents won't be punished this season, but that doesn't make the decisions given in the WBA game wrong. We'll get our share of them later on, and hopefully the ref will make the right decisions then too.

On that display, Long is far from honest. He went down looking for both penalties - and got them. Both were very soft.

I did say that Phil Dowd followed the text book, but the point is... why now? Referee's seem to pick and choose which teams they will 'go textbook' on and which teams they allow to get away with things. He was very light on West Brom in the yellow's he chose not to give them. He certainly wasn't textbook in all his decisions.. but the one's that went against us, he did.

I refuse to believe that referees are always neutral. Phil Dowd's actions looked like they were pre-determined.

Then most referees are wrong.

That's why when a referee acts according to the rules, he must be praised, not the other way round.

I'm not even saying it was a good game by Phil Dowd, but he was right about the penalties.

Not sure he was right about the first penalty, red card - yes, but the initial contact was outside the box.

For me, we cannot have any complaints about the referee. He saw 2 incidents and made his assessments based on what he felt he saw. With Aggers red card, if you are last man and make any contact, and the opposition player goes down, it's a red card all day.

We only have ourselves to blame. What annoyed me most was how, Pepe saves the penalty and you think, 'brilliant, take heart from that and go on and win'. Two minutes later they were on the attack and won another penalty. You make it break your own luck in football some times.

Let's not kid ourselves, we were poor. But, it's all work in progress. Many of us got carried away, myself included. The team have a lot to learn but we have to support the team and Brendan.

Couple of things. Skrtle never fouled the players as i saw it. The fella ran passed him and nicked the ball away. Skrtle never saw him coming, and  never got the shout. He just clipped him in stride as the fella cut accross him. Didn't see Skrtle change stride as contact was made. Total bias refereeing is what that was. Agger sent off. O.K. some given some not, but is Coate injured? surely with wanting to play a higher defensive line, you don't put Carra on. I've seen more acceleration from a milk float. Brendans game plan will only work with a bit of covering pace at the back. CARRA?  Third goal. Alright tired legs and all that with 10 men but we had three outfield players in the area the ball dropped at the far post. All waiting to block the header, why the F**k weren't they attacking the cross before it reached Lukaka. The ball passed all three of them. Also Stevie, lost possesion with a pass staright to a wba player, then stood and watched as they countered. He made a half hearted run to track back but was then 20 yds behind the play. Body language saying he isn't enjoying this set up, and that was before we conceded the first. Hope we can turn this all around but if we play like that against Citeh, The Arse and Utd, we could be 12 points adrift of the top after 6 games. Pre season seemed resonably decent, especially the last two games so how do we let wb turn us over. Beats me, but Hearts gone top of Scots Prem so they will be up for it in mid week so fingers crossed this is the wake up call and not the norm. Very worried at the moment and waited to post so as to avoid a rant.  All I needed to hear on top of this is Sahin going to the arse, and Ramirez off to Southampton. Goals in both of those. We need to pick the pace up in the transfer market thats for sure as we need a proven goal scorer, and quick.

Couple of things. Skrtle never fouled the players as i saw it. The fella ran passed him and nicked the ball away. Skrtle never saw him coming, and  never got the shout. He just clipped him in stride as the fella cut accross him. Didn't see Skrtle change stride as contact was made. Total bias refereeing is what that was. Agger sent off. O.K. some given some not, but is Coate injured? surely with wanting to play a higher defensive line, you don't put Carra on. I've seen more acceleration from a milk float. Brendans game plan will only work with a bit of covering pace at the back. CARRA?  Third goal. Alright tired legs and all that with 10 men but we had three outfield players in the area the ball dropped at the far post. All waiting to block the header, why the F**k weren't they attacking the cross before it reached Lukaka. The ball passed all three of them. Also Stevie, lost possesion with a pass staright to a wba player, then stood and watched as they countered. He made a half hearted run to track back but was then 20 yds behind the play. Body language saying he isn't enjoying this set up, and that was before we conceded the first. Hope we can turn this all around but if we play like that against Citeh, The Arse and Utd, we could be 12 points adrift of the top after 6 games. Pre season seemed resonably decent, especially the last two games so how do we let wb turn us over. Beats me, but Hearts gone top of Scots Prem so they will be up for it in mid week so fingers crossed this is the wake up call and not the norm. Very worried at the moment and waited to post so as to avoid a rant.  All I needed to hear on top of this is Sahin going to the arse, and Ramirez off to Southampton. Goals in both of those. We need to pick the pace up in the transfer market thats for sure as we need a proven goal scorer, and quick.

Just because you don't see a player, doesn't mean it isn't a foul.  He clipped him no matter what and the lack of a call  and Skrtel's lackadaisical attitude inside the box. 

It's better it happened now , rather than later on into the season.Rodgers won't take this lying down and i'm confident that we'll see improvements .