The UK v The U.S. Musically

Put your nationality and favourite musical styles to the side for the minute and lets debate which country over the last 65 years has given us the best music!

UK has given us some of the greatest bands of all time. The Beatles the Rolling stones, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood mac, the who right through to Oasis, Radiohead etc

Can the US compete bands wise?

The U.S. gave us solo artists like Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Elvis, Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison, Michael Jackson, Bruce Springsteen plus some of the great female artists. Can the U.K compete as solo artists?

Discuss!

I've been a fan of rock / metal since I was a kid so from my point of view, this has almost completely flipped.

Britain produced some of the best and most influential rock bands right up to the mid-late 80s:

Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, Motörhead, Venom et al...

Then America took over with metal bands such as Metallica, Megadeth, Pantera, Fear Factory, Anthrax etc...
Followed by and alongside the grunge era bands of Sonic Youth, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, Rage Against The Machine, RHCP, Jane's Addiction....

At that time, the old British bands were still going but we almost completely stopped producing any decent new bands and more of an Indie scene grew here.


So in summary, I'd say the U.S wins but if I'd been born in a generation earlier, I might say different.

We can be proud of what Britain has produced but it's almost gone now.

Pearl Jam
Nirvana
Soundgarden
Alice In Chains
Foo Fighters
Queens of the Stone Age
Rage Against The Machine
Metallica
Smashing Pumpkins
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Outkast

This could take awhile.

US for me.

Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple, Judas Priest, UFO, Led Zeppelin, Diamond Head, Rainbow, Tokyo Blade, Angel Witch, Saxon, Quartz, Witchfynde, Whitesnake, Dio, Uriah Heep, Pink Floyd, Girlschool, Cream etc.

But yeah, I've named all older bands and they're all part of my favourite era and genre of music.  There's no doubt more recent or current US rock/metal bands are better than the UK which is a shame considering what UK music once was - and I don't even particularly like Queen or The Beatles.

Great thread topic. To me it's a decade-by-decade shift almost.

50s - undoubtedly American. The birth of Rock, and the forefathers of it all. Chuck Berry, Elvis, Eddie Cochran, Carl Perkins, Buddy Holly, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis. The list goes on. Meanwhile, Lonnie Donegan and Cliff Richards and the Shadow just don't compare.

60s - British for me. The greatest of all time in The Beatles, plus all the bands they opened the door for. First wave "British Invasion" bands like the Stones, Who, Hollies, Kinks, etc. Second wave was the blues-based bands like Cream, Led Zeppelin, etc. There was some good US music as well, like all the great early Motown records, CCR, and (leaving out some I can't think of - apologies!) but I'd say Britain had the better music. 

I don't listen to too much 70s and 80s stuff, but the 90s seems pretty split down the middle for me. Obviously Oasis was huge, but so were Nirvana and Pearl Jam, for example.

What makes it all so great is the constant influence each country has on the other's music.

I'd say I'm mad for only REM, The Beach Boys and Bruce Springsteen when it comes to the US. Solo artist wise I don't think you can look beyond the US. On the bands front though it's all British for me mostly. Led by The Beatles we got the Rolling Stones, The Kinks, Who. Classic defining bands who steamrollered everything. And then you get something of a watershed moment again with the likes of The Smiths in the 80s. The Police were outsanding. Oasis, Blur, The Verve and Radiohead all in their prime in the 90s was exceptional stuff. In the last decade I have loved listening to the likes of Elbow, Travis, Franz Ferdinand and especially Coldplay. Not just releasing some great albums but also proving themselves to be out of this world when it comes to live performances. You can't look past the brilliance of talents such as solo artists like Brain Eno either. Mike Oldfield is another artist I've become very fond of recently as well.

American here. I find myself, for alternative music, enjoying British bands far more. My favorite bands of the 80s are almost all British, including The Smiths, New Order, and Depeche Mode. 60s and 70s are almost all English for me too, with The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Who, Pink Floyd, and Led Zeppelin.

I'm also a big hip-hop fan, and the US destroys the UK in that regard. Amy Winehouse is also one of my favorite voices of all time and her first two albums are always spinning on my iPod.

There's not many decent bands that the yanks have produced, with the exception of the Motown greats of Chi-Lites, Stylistics, Drifters etc. But some of their solo artists are great. I'm a huge fan of the 50s and 60s doo wop music. I love the likes of Del Shannon, Bobby Vee, Neil Sedaka, Bobby Vinton, Helen Shapiro etc.

But in terms of bands playing instruments then the Brits are head and shoulders above. Not only have we produced the Mod bands, but also the best Ska bands with Madness and the Specials. The best "glam rock" band with Slade. The best band of the 90s in Oasis. Will give the American's some credit in they have produced possibly the greatest duo of all time in Don and Phil aka the Everly Brothers.

In terms of today's music, given that I can't really bare the majority of it, I'd say the yanks are probably producing bigger stars. Mainly because every British "star" now is solely down to X Factor. A manufactured nobody.

But in all honesty, music in terms of playing an instrument has been shocking for a number of years. There's still a couple of decent bands but now talent doesn't seem to matter as much as it did.

So really it comes down to your musical taste, given I love the Mod music then I'm going to say Britain has produced the better. But, if I was a big rap fan then I'd probably the say the Americans.

There's not many decent bands that the yanks have produced

The Beach Boys, Pearl Jam, CCR, Allman Brothers Band, Nirvana, The Byrds, Van Halen, Sonic Youth, Metallica, RHCP, The Ramones, Velvet Underground, The Doors, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Beastie Boys, Foo Fighters, The Grateful Dead, REM of course.

I don't really like half of those, but they're all pretty significant.

The best band of the 90s in Oasis.

I like Oasis a lot, but I don't think they'd be considered the best of the 90s. That will probably go to Nirvana, even though I always thought Pearl Jam blew them out of the water musically and lyrically. The 90s are a very funny decade in that you have something completely new coming out every 15 months. So many different styles. It's a very under-appreciated decade in music.

But in all honesty, music in terms of playing an instrument has been shocking for a number of years. There's still a couple of decent bands but now talent doesn't seem to matter as much as it did.

I'd agree with you there. One thing that really bothers me about music today is how digital it all feels. Things are recorded on computers now, not on tube-driven consoles running tape. A lot of stuff lacks the warmth in the recordings that the vintage equipment used to give off. Ah well.

There's not many decent bands that the yanks have produced, with the exception of the Motown greats of Chi-Lites, Stylistics, Drifters etc. But some of their solo artists are great. I'm a huge fan of the 50s and 60s doo wop music. I love the likes of Del Shannon, Bobby Vee, Neil Sedaka, Bobby Vinton, Helen Shapiro etc.

But in terms of bands playing instruments then the Brits are head and shoulders above. Not only have we produced the Mod bands, but also the best Ska bands with Madness and the Specials. The best "glam rock" band with Slade. The best band of the 90s in Oasis. Will give the American's some credit in they have produced possibly the greatest duo of all time in Don and Phil aka the Everly Brothers.

In terms of today's music, given that I can't really bare the majority of it, I'd say the yanks are probably producing bigger stars. Mainly because every British "star" now is solely down to X Factor. A manufactured nobody.

But in all honesty, music in terms of playing an instrument has been shocking for a number of years. There's still a couple of decent bands but now talent doesn't seem to matter as much as it did.

So really it comes down to your musical taste, given I love the Mod music then I'm going to say Britain has produced the better. But, if I was a big rap fan then I'd probably the say the Americans.

I'd say Oasis were the best of the 90s but I would say that! To have released Definitely Maybe and (What's The Story) Morning Glory back to back was unbelievable and the hype that surrounded them was justified. I mean they were just so refreshing. There's maybe too much joylessness in music and too much songwriting about politics, society, religion etc to the point that it just becomes shallow. A lot will say Radiohead, Nirvana etc. For me they never had the fun the Gallagher's and co had. But when Oasis came about in the mid 90s, the songs were all basically just about the rollercoaster of life which made for something different and totally escapist.

America gave us Justin Beiber, Hannah Montanna, Rebecka Black etc.

Also then two daft cu*ts who wore their trouser back to front - kriss kross and Mc Hammer who wore trousers that made him look like he'd sh*t himself.

They lose by default

I'd say Oasis were the best of the 90s but I would say that! To have released Definitely Maybe and (What's The Story) Morning Glory back to back was unbelievable and the hype that surrounded them was justified. I mean they were just so refreshing. There's maybe too much joylessness in music and too much songwriting about politics, society, religion etc to the point that it just becomes shallow. A lot will say Radiohead, Nirvana etc. For me they never had the fun the Gallagher's and co had. But when Oasis came about in the mid 90s, the songs were all basically just about the rollercoaster of life which made for something different and totally escapist.

Playing devil's advocate here (because I do like Oasis, mind): Those first two albums do feature a lot of lifted material, melodies, riffs, etc, just re-appropriated.

America gave us Justin Beiber, Hannah Montanna, Rebecka Black etc.

Also then two daft cu*ts who wore their trouser back to front - kriss kross and Mc Hammer who wore trousers that made him look like he'd sh*t himself.

They lose by default

HOW. DARE. YOU.

EDIT: Justin Bieber is Canadian!

Playing devil's advocate here (because I do like Oasis, mind): Those first two albums do feature a lot of lifted material, melodies, riffs, etc, just re-appropriated.

HOW. DARE. YOU.

EDIT: Justin Bieber is Canadian!

I don't know if it's that much but in the words of Oscar Wilde

"Talent borrows, genius steals!"

I don't know if it's that much but in the words of Oscar Wilde

"Talent borrows, genius steals!"

It is quite a bit actually. Pretty sure someone on YouTube has a whole bunch of videos with comparisons and what not. But no one really reinvents the wheel anymore.

America gave us Justin Beiber, Hannah Montanna, Rebecka Black etc.

Sssh let's not forget the shame of Five, Blue, 911, McFly, Busted and Robson and F***ing Jerome!!

Sssh let's not forget the shame of Five, Blue, 911, McFly, Busted and Robson and F***ing Jerome!!

And every talentless c**t that's been on the X Factor.

There's not many decent bands that the yanks have produced

WTF? I take it your tongue was firmly in your cheek there Billy? 

But in terms of bands playing instruments then the Brits are head and shoulders above. Not only have we produced the Mod bands, but also the best Ska bands with Madness and the Specials. The best "glam rock" band with Slade. The best band of the 90s in Oasis.

Lovin it mate.

Best Ska (two tone  )  bands? Madness?  - Check out The Uptones or The Toasters mate... I reckon you'll get a sweet surprise.

Best Glam Rock band? Slade? - I'd reckon The New York Dolls or Iggy & The Stooges might have something to say about that.

The best band of the 90's? Quoasis? If they were the best that Britain could offer in the 90's it just goes to show you how sh*te our music was - thankfully, tho', they weren't. - the USA? - Nirvana; Pearl Jam; Screaming Trees; Foo Fighters... and on and on...

They (arguably) aren't as innovative but for sheer quality and quantity of, kick ass, bands playing every thing from Blues to Punk and everything in between the USA wins hands down. It's got nothing all to do with taste either.

Couldn't agree less that Oasis was the best band of the 90s. I'd have Nirvana ahead of them easily, possibly Pearl Jam (of course this is all opinion). I don't even think Oasis is the best English band of the 90s. That goes to Radiohead for me.

Best Ska (two tone  )  bands? Madness?  - Check out The Uptones or The Toasters mate... I reckon you'll get a sweet surprise.

And The Slackers!
Anyway, Ska is a genre of Jamaican origin... Jamaican music kicks ass.

Anyway, Ska is a genre of Jamaican origin

Yeah but 'Two-Tone' was most definitely British first and that's where, I think, Billy got himself confused, bless.

Anyway, Ska is a genre of Jamaican origin... Jamaican music kicks ass

You're delving into murky waters if you're going to trace musical genres back to their absolute roots, it's hard to know where to stop as all music is an evolotion of what came before. Far easier to discuss where the genre was most prolific which in the case of Rock, Metal, Rap, RnB, Punk, Ska. Mod and many other genres, the US and UK have been the forerunners.

Not forgetting Brazil, of course 

Sepultura - Ratamahatta

this subject is too subjective to be solved, but...my point of view...

USA
~Elvis
~Jimmi Hendrix
~Jim Morrison (The Doors)

UK
~The Beatles
~Pink Floyd
~Led Zeppelin

In my opinion, the US contributed to revolutionary rock individuals and the UK gave us revolutionary bands. So I would have to say that they're equals in contribution....and they all bow down to Canada!!! The Guess Who, BTO, Rush, Neil Young, Kim Mitchell, Bryan Adams, April Wine, Trooper. List is long.

and they all bow down to Canada!!! The Guess Who, BTO, Rush, Neil Young, Kim Mitchell, Bryan Adams, April Wine, Trooper. List is long.

...Alexisonfire, Cancer Bats, fu**ed Up, Comeback Kid, Billy Talent... 




...Avril Lavigne 

...Alexisonfire, Cancer Bats, F**ked Up, Comeback Kid, Billy Talent... 




...Avril Lavigne 

JUSTIN BIEBER!!!!!!!!

WTF? I take it your tongue was firmly in your cheek there Billy? 

Lovin it mate.

Best Ska (two tone  )  bands? Madness?  - Check out The Uptones or The Toasters mate... I reckon you'll get a sweet surprise.

Best Glam Rock band? Slade? - I'd reckon The New York Dolls or Iggy & The Stooges might have something to say about that.

The best band of the 90's? Quoasis? If they were the best that Britain could offer in the 90's it just goes to show you how sh*te our music was - thankfully, tho', they weren't. - the USA? - Nirvana; Pearl Jam; Screaming Trees; Foo Fighters... and on and on...

They (arguably) aren't as innovative but for sheer quality and quantity of, kick ass, bands playing every thing from Blues to Punk and everything in between the USA wins hands down. It's got nothing all to do with taste either.

Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Screaming Trees and Foo Fighters? Maybe if you're a fan of similar genres.

Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Screaming Trees and Foo Fighters? Maybe if you're a fan of similar genres.

Put your nationality and favourite musical styles to the side for the minute and lets debate which country over the last 65 years has given us the best music!

A lot of people haven't mentioned the works and influence of the likes of Brian Eno, David Bowie, Mike Oldfield. Solo artists like Elton John, Kate Bush, the influence of figures such as Hank Marvin....the list goes on.

Looking through and surprised no one's mentioned The Stone Roses either!

Oh and I haven't even begun to start on Britain's classical composers!

Looking through and surprised no one's mentioned The Stone Roses either!

It's because they're sh*t.

Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Screaming Trees and Foo Fighters? Maybe if you're a fan of similar genres.

If you had read the whole post in context frankly' you would have noted that those four, 90's rock bands, bands were put up against Billy's offering for the "best 90's band" which happened to be a.... 90's  rock band.

I'd suggest that each and every one of them were/are an awful lot better than the Quo'asis : from musical ability and stage presence to song writing. I'd even go as far as to suggest that most music fans would agree; if they "sets aside nationality" and looks at things objectively, that is.

The last time we played this game: http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,20924.msg402907.html#msg402907 I actually played devil's advocate for the U.K.

It was  only a bit of fun then and it's only a bit of fun now. For me anyhow. 

Going to be a shithouse here and say both countries have some outstanding bands and artists who have put out some of the greatest music to ever be played on vinyl,discs etc, so why must both countries rely on Simon Cowell churned out sh*te?

If you had read the whole post in context frankly' you would have noted that those four, 90's rock bands, bands were put up against Billy's offering for the "best 90's band" which happened to be a.... 90's  rock band.

I'd suggest that each and every one of them were/are an awful lot better than the Quo'asis : from musical ability and stage presence to song writing. I'd even go as far as to suggest that most music fans would agree; if they "sets aside nationality" and looks at things objectively, that is.

The last time we played this game: http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,20924.msg402907.html#msg402907 I actually played devil's advocate for the U.K.

It was  only a bit of fun then and it's only a bit of fun now. For me anyhow. 

Ooooh I don't know about Foo Fighters being better than Oasis! It's all subjective though. I mean I've never heard a song by the bands you mentioned that matches something like The Masterplan but it's just my opinion. Music, like beauty, is in the eyes of the beholder....or in this case the ears!

Ooooh I don't know about Foo Fighters being better than Oasis! It's all subjective though. I mean I've never heard a song by the bands you mentioned that matches something like The Masterplan but it's just my opinion. Music, like beauty, is in the eyes of the beholder....or in this case the ears!

"Yellow Ledbetter" by Pearl Jam is pretty epic, even if no one knows any of the f*cking words haha. Which is part of what it makes great. Awesome solo too.

Pearl Jam Yellow Ledbetter

Going to be a shithouse here and say both countries have some outstanding bands and artists who have put out some of the greatest music to ever be played on vinyl,discs etc, so why must both countries rely on Simon Cowell churned out sh*te?

That's kind of the state of the music industry unfortunately. Much like how we bemoan modern football, the modern music industry is a pretty sorry state of affairs.

Yeah but 'Two-Tone' was most definitely British first and that's where, I think, Billy got himself confused, bless.

You're delving into murky waters if you're going to trace musical genres back to their absolute roots, it's hard to know where to stop as all music is an evolotion of what came before. Far easier to discuss where the genre was most prolific which in the case of Rock, Metal, Rap, RnB, Punk, Ska. Mod and many other genres, the US and UK have been the forerunners.

Very true, I just wanted to point out how good Jamaican music is.

Not forgetting Brazil, of course 

Sepultura - Ratamahatta

My girlfriend's brother is the lead singer of a heavy/trash metal or whatever it is labelled (really can't find a word for it) called Confronto, they're not mainstream but very respected in the metal/punk scene, they've played with some great bands such as the Agnostic Front. I know it's off-topic but perhaps it could interest you Rep, take a look at them on youtube if you want:

Confronto Official DVD - Infanticidio

Not my cup of tea but my gf's brother is a great guy, we always have great chats about music.

He also has another band called Norte Cartel, it's a smaller 'project' but I actually like them better... more of a punk-rock band:

NORTE CARTEL - FAMÍLIA (OFFICIAL HD VERSION)


As for Brazilian music in general... we have an extremely rich culture here but a lot of it just isn't for me... I have a lot of respect for some Brazilian musicians but in truth most of what I listen is sang in English... I was introduced to American grunge from a very early age and not long after punk rock, so I never developed much interest to styles that are typical of my country. I do love old-school samba though, and the genius that is Cartola. He is possibly the best thing that ever happened in Brazilian music in my eyes, if you don't like him then you probably won't like samba at all:

CARTOLA - "O Mundo É Um Moinho" (Cartola) 1976

Cartola - Preciso me encontrar


Sorry for going ridiculously off topic here

Back on topic, I just can't decided between British or American music. I love so many different bands and artists of different times from both countries...

I know it's off-topic but perhaps it could interest you Rep, take a look at them on youtube if you want:

I'll have a listen tomorrow when I'm at home. Wouldn't be worth listening to them on the pc speakers at work!

EDIT : Couldn't resist having a quick listen. In the first video at 1:42, why is that bloke in the crowd wiping his arse along the floor like a dog with worms? haha. Is that a Brazilian thing?? 

I think I prefer the Norte Cartel stuff as well. I'll spread the word, every bit helps.

EDIT : Couldn't resist having a quick listen. In the first video at 1:42, why is that bloke in the crowd wiping his arse along the floor like a dog with worms? haha. Is that a Brazilian thing?? 

No I never saw it before either, hadn't noticed when I watched the video Just a crazy guy I think

i  think its kinda irrelevent where a  band comes from.the size of the u.s.a means there will be more bands than britain but if ya like a bands sound thats what is important.
                                            following on from the brazilian metal vids,i loved some of the early punk stuff outta there,Colera,Olho Seco,Inocentes.

I vote Australia

Never seen the hype about Radiohead. I think The Bends is a really really great album, but most of their stuff is just too abstract to emotionally connect with me and I rarely ever find myself in a mood which calls for Radiohead, plus Thom Yorke has to be the most pretentious stuck up front man of all time. Two of my favourite bands of all time are REM and The Smiths, who are similar in vein to the sort of themes and emotions that Radiohead try to play at, and I feel they are far superior in getting their message across - better melodies, better lyrics, better and more interesting frontmen, more interesting musicianship (Johnny Marr has to be the greatest pop guitarist ever) the singers are really good singers, etc. And in terms of their so called 'reinventions', I think U2 displayed a far more radical and impressive yet still highly accessible reinvention in the 90s from their 80s self. A band that released Zooropa which sounds nothing like the band that released Boy, The Unforgettable Fire, Joshua Tree - with Radiohead, I can still tell it's Radiohead.

I've sort of gone off topic but I think the UK has much better bands than the US, while the US probably get one up on solo artists.

OOOhhh. This is a touchy subject. Id rather debate religion than this.

Music always had highs and lows. I think the Brits were definitely #1 from 1963-1972. They had a lot of good bands and artists but nothing comparable to the Beatles or Stones. Then on top of that was The Who, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin and probably the most underrated band ever The Animals.  Music and talent wise, the only US band to compete against the Beatles were the Beach Boys. Their music was a little "commercial" and different from the mainstream 60's sound but they had better vocals and harmonies than the Beatles. But also a lot of those bands were inspired by the Blues and early rock which was from the US.

The 70's - 80's I though was sh*t. The Brits gave us Wham, Duran Duran and Culture Club and any number of sh*t pop groups and we didnt do anything either.

But the 90's brought back the rivalry. The Brits had the whole "Brit Pop" scene and we had Metal and Punk/Grunge. I always liked Oasis but what killed them, in terms of success was timing. I still remember that Stone Roses were getting a bit of a following over here and Oasis were playing the bigger arenas and on the radio alot. But, then Nirvana and Pearl Jam hit. US music went back to the raw, garage sound. No makeup or hair or theater. It was just dirty and loud and groups like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Sound Garden, Alice in Chains, Metallica, Guns and Roses, Slayer and especially Rage Against The Machine...were just massive.

In the span of 18 months I saw Pearl Jam, RATM, Soundgarden and Alice in Chains all live. It was all hardcore US groups. With the exception of Oasis I cant think of 1 British band that had a big Impact in the US between 1991-1998. In that time I went to dozens of concerts, I was a huge music fan. We went to every big show in NY/NJ area. I can only think of 1 concert that I went to that had a British band and that was New Order. Their was also a huge Punk scene going on. Bands like Fugazi, Descendants, All, Rollins Band, Pennywise, Bad Religion, NOFX, Green Day, Operation Ivy, Gorilla Biscuits and The Misfits etc were playing together and opening up the Hardcore/Punk scene.

Now, I dont think it matters anymore. W/ the Internet and Itunes and You Tube its all based on the Music. Regardless of where your from. It used to be the "British Sound" or "English Beat" and you could tell a Brit band from a Yank band, but I think thats changing. Once we started knowing about and influencing each others cultures, music changed.

But regardless. music is music to me. If its good I like it, if its sh*t, its sh*t.

The 70's - 80's I though was sh*t. The Brits gave us Wham, Duran Duran and Culture Club and any number of sh*t pop groups and we didnt do anything either.

I'm not sure about you guys but I thought there was plenty of great music out of the UK in the 70/80s.

Bowie, T Rex, Kate Bush, Floyd, The Clash, Joy Division, New Order, Depeche Mode, The Smiths, The Cure to name just a few.

I haven't really got into this debate yet as I love music from both the US and the UK, although more bands/artists I like tend to be from the UK but that doesn't take away from some of my favourite bands who are from the US.