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      Tactics geeks of the world unite...

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      racerx34
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1035: Sep 18, 2023 10:19:53 am
      Even then I think it should be within reason. If it's every single time we have the ball then the opposition know what we're going to do, whereas if we mix it up a bit more then it might catch them off guard. And it's not like he can't be dangerous from the right wing. We've seen for years he is as good as anybody in world football playing that role.

      The Villa game was interesting as he didn't play so much as an extra midfielder but instead more of a centre half when we had the ball, so I'm keen to see if that's how we use him in the future or once fit again he just starts to leg it back into the middle of the park every time we've got possession. 

      The Villa game was interesting as they clearly had looked to crowd the area where Trent had been playing previously.
      Shifting across to CB instead of into the CM area gave him the space to ping passes as required.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1036: Sep 18, 2023 02:58:25 pm
      Not in a million years do I think we'll go down this route and probably with good reason but do people think we could move Van Dijk into the "number 6" position?

      He's got the passing range to spring us forward, he's a defender first and foremost so he'll have that mindset, he's got the positional sense and although he's lost a bit of pace over the last few years he's still no slouch. If Trent moves into midfield during a game, Virg can just move back and Konate or Gomez can cover at right back. It might also be the shot in the arm Van Dijk needs as his form at centre half has been getting increasingly worse since the injury.

      I don't know if he's quick footed enough to receive the ball in tight areas and avoid a pressing forward/midfielder though, which is something we've struggled with for a while in our midfield. It was something Xabi Alonso, especially, excelled at. Remember the year where four or five red cards got given for fouls on him alone?

      As I said at the start of the post though, there's probably a million and one good reasons why it won't happen and even more why it shouldn't. Was just throwing it out there as a possible alternative.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1037: Sep 18, 2023 03:06:49 pm
      Simply no.

      We have others who are better skilled to  play that position.
      racerx34
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1038: Sep 18, 2023 03:44:36 pm
      Not in a million years do I think we'll go down this route and probably with good reason but do people think we could move Van Dijk into the "number 6" position?

      He's got the passing range to spring us forward, he's a defender first and foremost so he'll have that mindset, he's got the positional sense and although he's lost a bit of pace over the last few years he's still no slouch. If Trent moves into midfield during a game, Virg can just move back and Konate or Gomez can cover at right back. It might also be the shot in the arm Van Dijk needs as his form at centre half has been getting increasingly worse since the injury.

      I don't know if he's quick footed enough to receive the ball in tight areas and avoid a pressing forward/midfielder though, which is something we've struggled with for a while in our midfield. It was something Xabi Alonso, especially, excelled at. Remember the year where four or five red cards got given for fouls on him alone?

      As I said at the start of the post though, there's probably a million and one good reasons why it won't happen and even more why it shouldn't. Was just throwing it out there as a possible alternative.

      Rather than give him the 6 role I think he'd be suited to the central of the 3 or the role of a CB given licence to move forward. For all the talk of Gomez not being suited to moving into midfield from the RB role, the other option is to have VvD move from the CB position into midfield, but only when the defenders are there that can cover behind.

      So, if Trent is not available to move up, maybe look at VvD.
      For that to happen then all the other CBs need to be fit.

      Personally I think 1-4-2-3-1 suits the squad better now.
      Certainly when Trent isn't available.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1039: Sep 18, 2023 04:36:30 pm
      Rather than give him the 6 role I think he'd be suited to the central of the 3 or the role of a CB given licence to move forward. For all the talk of Gomez not being suited to moving into midfield from the RB role, the other option is to have VvD move from the CB position into midfield, but only when the defenders are there that can cover behind.

      I think a back three could be really beneficial to us. A 3-4-3 with Trent and Robbo playing as wing backs/wide midfielders can easily become our more traditional 4-3-3 whenever we want. But I think, for me, I'd keep Van Dijk as the left sided centre half.

      I know a lot were really keen to see us sign a left sided centre half in the summer and if we do in the future then maybe Van Dijk will become more central if (and it's it a big if) we were to change system.

      Alisson
      Gomez Konate Van Dijk
      Trent Szoboszlai Mac Allister Robertson
      Salah Nunez Diaz

      Personally I think 1-4-2-3-1 suits the squad better now.
      Certainly when Trent isn't available.

      If everyone, other than Trent, was fit for a League winning fixture what 11 would you start with mate in that system?
      racerx34
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1040: Sep 19, 2023 10:00:47 am
      I think a back three could be really beneficial to us. A 3-4-3 with Trent and Robbo playing as wing backs/wide midfielders can easily become our more traditional 4-3-3 whenever we want. But I think, for me, I'd keep Van Dijk as the left sided centre half.

      I know a lot were really keen to see us sign a left sided centre half in the summer and if we do in the future then maybe Van Dijk will become more central if (and it's it a big if) we were to change system.

      Alisson
      Gomez Konate Van Dijk
      Trent Szoboszlai Mac Allister Robertson
      Salah Nunez Diaz

      If everyone, other than Trent, was fit for a League winning fixture what 11 would you start with mate in that system?


      Alisson
      Gomez Konate van Dijk Robertson
      Szoboszlai Mac Allister
      Salah Gakpo Diaz
      Nunez

      Option to play Gravenberch instead of Mac Allister or Gakpo, or push Szoboslai into the 10 role.
      Ideally, when all players are up to speed you play Szoboszlai, Mac Allister, Gravenberch in the "3"
      but it changes depending on the phase where one sits when the team attacks and two go,
      and two play deeper when out of possession. That would be more fluid and more likely what Klopp would play.

      So on paper it would look like
      Alisson
      Trent Konate van Dijk Robertson
      Szoboszlai Mac Allister Gravenberch
      Salah Nunez Diaz


      With Trent out, I'd actually like to see what a 3-box-3 would look like.

      Alisson
      Konate van Dijk Quansah
      Endo Bajcetic
      Szoboszlai Mac Allister
      Salah Nunez Diaz
      « Last Edit: Sep 19, 2023 01:29:13 pm by racerx34 »
      brezipool
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1041: Nov 02, 2023 11:30:22 am
      Not so much tactics, but a general stat....

      our 5 forwards have now scored 30 goals in all comps between them so far this season.

      Roughly a third thru season, so if they keep this us, they will bag 90 between them.

      KLOPPLFC2.0 is doing quite nicely.
      PastorGeek
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1042: Nov 14, 2023 04:21:40 pm
      I think a back three could be really beneficial to us. A 3-4-3 with Trent and Robbo playing as wing backs/wide midfielders can easily become our more traditional 4-3-3 whenever we want. But I think, for me, I'd keep Van Dijk as the left sided centre half.

      I know a lot were really keen to see us sign a left sided centre half in the summer and if we do in the future then maybe Van Dijk will become more central if (and it's it a big if) we were to change system.

      Alisson
      Gomez Konate Van Dijk
      Trent Szoboszlai Mac Allister Robertson
      Salah Nunez Diaz

      If everyone, other than Trent, was fit for a League winning fixture what 11 would you start with mate in that system?

      I previously suggested we do a 3-4-2-1 or 3-4-3 as Scotland have done with Robertson as wing back, and would allow Trent to also play further forward

      This is how Hungary play with Szobozlai

      I wonder if we might use this 3-4-2-1 formation with a 3rd CB signing.

      It will allow us to use Robertson and Trent further forward. 



      One problem is I think Szobozlai is too attacking minded to play in the CM position. The other thing is that with all our injuries, struggles with midfield and Trents poor defending, we haven't tried it even once. Despite having several players who could do the job. So i don't think Klopp will ever do it.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1043: Dec 20, 2023 10:59:23 pm
      Nunez has been blunt up front for a while but yet he creates panic in the opposition defenders because of his movement and pace.
      With Gakpo taking up the Bobby positions we look a lot more cohesive as an attacking unit and building pressure on the opposition defence.

      So might be an idea to try a Nunez, Gakpo, Salah combo.
      king kenny
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1044: Dec 20, 2023 11:17:22 pm
      Nunez has been blunt up front for a while but yet he creates panic in the opposition defenders because of his movement and pace.
      With Gakpo taking up the Bobby positions we look a lot more cohesive as an attacking unit and building pressure on the opposition defence.

      So might be an idea to try a Nunez, Gakpo, Salah combo.

      I do like that front 3 it just seems that Diaz just needs a breather its just not happening for him.  Nunez on the left and Gakpo in the middle sounds a good option. 
      sore monad
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1045: Dec 21, 2023 01:10:59 am
      I do like that front 3 it just seems that Diaz just needs a breather its just not happening for him.  Nunez on the left and Gakpo in the middle sounds a good option.

      Pretty sure Jürgen will start Diaz against Arsenal and leave Darwin on the bench. Makes perfect sense to me. Darwin is a serious threat coming off the bench when the game starts to get stretched. There's no doubt he's been better off the bench than when starting so far this season.

      Diaz meanwhile played pretty well against Man U despite the grumblings on here. Pretty sure he was rested today to start on Saturday.
      king kenny
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1046: Dec 21, 2023 01:45:01 am
      Pretty sure Jürgen will start Diaz against Arsenal and leave Darwin on the bench. Makes perfect sense to me. Darwin is a serious threat coming off the bench when the game starts to get stretched. There's no doubt he's been better off the bench than when starting so far this season.

      Diaz meanwhile played pretty well against Man U despite the grumblings on here. Pretty sure he was rested today to start on Saturday.

      I personally like all 4 of our attacking options,  Darwin for me is the biggest nuisance for opponents the last bit is just not happening as much as he and everyone would like but still.  He for me makes the opponents panic.  I think with Salah going away soon would like to see a little more of Gakpo  more minutes because we will need more from the 4 of them in January. 



      billythered
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1047: Dec 21, 2023 07:55:00 am
      I do like that front 3 it just seems that Diaz just needs a breather its just not happening for him.  Nunez on the left and Gakpo in the middle sounds a good option. 




      Nunez thru the middle is ideal for me, however he’s not at the races for finishing right now but it will come, until it does I’d have Gakpo in there, he obviously can score but he offers more too, his link up play is good , he can drop back and help and he’s decent in the air too, Nunez is a nuisance but being a nuisance doesn’t guarantee goals, he’s much more effective off the bench, especially against tired legs & minds,
      Another starter for me Vs Arse is Harvey he brings a sh*t load of energy and that helps create tempo, we function better when we control tempo, no point in having fast players playing to a slower pace, that’s like aiming with your eye’s shut !!

      Jürgen has a headache for Saturday, Szloboslai, Jones, Harvey,Endo Trent, Macca & Grav if fit, which three get the nod ??
      YNWA


      HScRed1
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1048: Dec 23, 2023 11:18:16 pm
      Still have not clicked as an attacking unit this season just odd bits of individual brilliance at the moment which is not sustainable over the season.
      Szobo is an interesting case he was on fire early in the season when he had licence to bomb forward. But now that he is covering for Trent he has been blunted, hope Klopp is not trying to turn him into the next Henderson!
      srslfc
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1049: Dec 24, 2023 12:13:48 pm
      Still have not clicked as an attacking unit this season just odd bits of individual brilliance at the moment which is not sustainable over the season.
      Szobo is an interesting case he was on fire early in the season when he had licence to bomb forward. But now that he is covering for Trent he has been blunted, hope Klopp is not trying to turn him into the next Henderson!

      Jürgen does seem to like his midfielders to be more conservative in nature and be the link rather than giving one or two of them licence to be more individual.

      When it works it really works but when it doesn't it can leave us very infective and lacking in creativity
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1050: Apr 02, 2024 07:57:12 pm
      Can someone with a better tactical brain than me explain the fixation with centre halves taking two yard goal kicks to the keeper these days?
      Longy-Shops
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1051: Apr 02, 2024 08:13:57 pm
      Can someone with a better tactical brain than me explain the fixation with centre halves taking two yard goal kicks to the keeper these days?
      It would be easier to answer the so-called "Hard problem" Why is the mind conscious?...Why do we experience?...Back to the Goal kicks; it's probably just a fad...a phase that will just vanish as quickly as it emerged.
      sore monad
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1052: Apr 12, 2024 12:57:21 pm
      Presumably every manager we play til the end of the season will have watched that Atalanta performance and thought "ah, if you just man mark them all over the pitch they don't know what to do."

      Jürgen needs to address that tactical question before the Palace game, never mind before Atalanta away.

      Don Hutchison said on punditry that the best way to combat man marking was to just stand still. Anybody have any clue what the F**k the logic is there? Standing still is what we seemed to be doing.

      I'd have thought you'd need to use their man marking against them by pulling them out of position. So CMs drop deep, while CBs step forward. Wide men come inside while strikers run wide into the space that is left. Etc etc.

      Our approach was basically to just helplessly pass it backwards until it got to Kelleher to hoof it long. Or to pass it into feet of a guy tightly marked, rather into a space opened up by movement off the ball.

      I mean on top of that our defending was an absolute joke. No marking or tracking runners. So there's that as well. But tactically we clearly need to work out how to handle man to man marking, pronto.

      On a side note, gotta like their manager. Not least cos he looks like Harpo Marx.
      chats
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1053: Apr 12, 2024 08:19:04 pm
      It’s interesting because there was a time about 3-4 years ago where if you dared man mark us you’d end up getting smashed 4-0.

      A few key issues currently regarding why we struggle with it now. We lack the Fabinho/Gini type midfielders who loved getting it under pressure and moving the play along. We miss Trent going direct to beat the press. And finally our attack isn’t as clinical as it was to take advantage of the times we play through the press.

      At least Trent will be back soon but the other issues will be a headache for the new manager to solve.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1054: Apr 13, 2024 02:17:17 pm
      Presumably every manager we play til the end of the season will have watched that Atalanta performance and thought "ah, if you just man mark them all over the pitch they don't know what to do."

      Jürgen needs to address that tactical question before the Palace game, never mind before Atalanta away.

      Don Hutchison said on punditry that the best way to combat man marking was to just stand still. Anybody have any clue what the F**k the logic is there? Standing still is what we seemed to be doing.

      I'd have thought you'd need to use their man marking against them by pulling them out of position. So CMs drop deep, while CBs step forward. Wide men come inside while strikers run wide into the space that is left. Etc etc.

      Our approach was basically to just helplessly pass it backwards until it got to Kelleher to hoof it long. Or to pass it into feet of a guy tightly marked, rather into a space opened up by movement off the ball.

      I mean on top of that our defending was an absolute joke. No marking or tracking runners. So there's that as well. But tactically we clearly need to work out how to handle man to man marking, pronto.

      On a side note, gotta like their manager. Not least cos he looks like Harpo Marx.

      Don Hutchison also thought a budweiser beer bottle label was sound for covering his cock, plus he chose to sign for Everton.

      File under clueless North East divvy.
      sore monad
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #1055: Apr 13, 2024 07:29:03 pm
      It’s interesting because there was a time about 3-4 years ago where if you dared man mark us you’d end up getting smashed 4-0.

      A few key issues currently regarding why we struggle with it now. We lack the Fabinho/Gini type midfielders who loved getting it under pressure and moving the play along. We miss Trent going direct to beat the press. And finally our attack isn’t as clinical as it was to take advantage of the times we play through the press.

      At least Trent will be back soon but the other issues will be a headache for the new manager to solve.

      Good point about Trent's long passing being handy against a high press.

      Don't agree about us not having the players to take the ball in tight areas. Mac is usually good at this. Ditto Jones. Endo n Dom usually at least ok at it.

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