Trending Topics

      Next match: Chelsea v LFC [Premier League] Sun 22nd Sep @ 4:30 pm
      Stamford Bridge

      Today is the 19th of September and on this date LFC's match record is P31 W14 D7 L10

      Tactics geeks of the world unite...

      Read 77643 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #25: Nov 08, 2012 08:49:54 pm
      Think the impact Suso had off the bench tonight is how I mean above.. When games are stretched
      George Lucas
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 6,615 posts | 57 
      • JFT96
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #26: Nov 08, 2012 08:51:05 pm
      Think the impact Suso had off the bench tonight is how I mean above.. When games are stretched

      He certainly provided a cutting edge and scared their cb's
      corballyred
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 17,707 posts | 307 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #27: Nov 08, 2012 09:44:37 pm
      Anyone watching suso last two years will know he is better centrally. Think borrell actually improved him playing him on the right last season.
      srslfc
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 25,908 posts | 2138 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #28: Nov 09, 2012 02:18:08 am
      I have watched back a couple of the games over the last few days (Mrs not well  :D ) to see from my opinion what doesnt seem quite right in terms of tactically what we are not quite getting right..

      We are playing 4-3-3 but for me looking at times there are a few things not quite clicking, with personel? with tactics?

      Sorry to butcher an excellent post PD but like you have said it's the midfield three that has been bothering me for a while now and I'm still trying to work out what Brendan is hoping to get out of them playing as they do.

      I agree that Lucas is a big loss in Brendan's preferred way of setting up ie a 1-2 in midfield and very quickly he seemed to move to a 2-1 to compensate for this with Allen being the one mostly sitting in front of the back four although Gerrard has also done it as well through games. I have no problem with that in itself but the players used and the postions they are used in is not utilising each player to the best of thier abilities and in effect nullifying their best talents to fit into a system.

      Allen is fine where he is for now as until Lucas is back he is the man the boss can trust in his methods and can dictate the tempo of our play from deep so him as one of the two works fine for me.

      It is the other two and also futher forward where things are a bit skewed as far as I can see. Now I understand that he might want Gerrard beside Allen in the '2' as he is our most experienced player and does a real solid job there after he settled into how Brendan wanted his midfield players to play but I think that having one of our best attacking players in such a conservative role is limiting both the player and the team especially when we have others such as Sahin and Henderson who can just as easily do what Gerrard does there.  Sahin and Henderson, however, will not do what Gerrard can further up the pitch and that is create and score goals, something we are still lacking this season.

      Sahin, as you say, is a perfect fit for the role beside Allen and being left sided gives even more balance to the '2' and both have the ability to move further forward while one sits if and when the space opens up to do so.

      Brendan seems to prefer

      Allen Gerrard
      Sahin

      Where I feel this is much more balanced and makes better use of the players strengths

      Allen  Sahin

      Gerrard

      In saying that though I would go even further and move Gerrard out of the three completely, at least to try it, and have him in one of the positions in the front three for a couple of reasons.

      1. He is after Suarez our greatest attacking threat and to limit him to effectively a holding role is like playing him on a lead and also could be putting much more pressure on Luis than is needed as he always seems to feel he is the one who needs to be trying to score the goals. Stick Gerrard closer to Suarez and he has someone he feels he can share the burden with so to speak and just might give us more options up front.

      2. Shelvey/Suso
      Both these players are best playing in the '1' of the midfield three just behind the forwards and by always having Gerrard or as has happened most often Sahin there it is again taking a natural postion away from a player. I'd be more inclined to play Jonjo there initally but also if Suso doesn't start the gaame he'd be great coming on with 20/30 minutes left with space to play into and aagain if he had Gerrard, Suarez and Sterling to feed with space it could increase our attacking options.

      For me it can transform a side that appears to have little cutting edge to one making the best use of players available and maybe one with plenty of attacking options.

      Allen Sahin

      Shelvey/Suso

      Gerrard Suarez Sterling

      Brendan has talked about Gerrard as an attacking player yet has very rarely, if any, played him as one and I'm wondering if it is something the boss has seen in training or the extra insurance the captain gives in a deeper role that has stopped him from playing him as a forward but I really think that tactically it is holding us back a bit.
      George Lucas
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 6,615 posts | 57 
      • JFT96
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #29: Nov 09, 2012 06:23:38 am
      Sorry to butcher an excellent post PD but like you have said it's the midfield three that has been bothering me for a while now and I'm still trying to work out what Brendan is hoping to get out of them playing as they do.

      I agree that Lucas is a big loss in Brendan's preferred way of setting up ie a 1-2 in midfield and very quickly he seemed to move to a 2-1 to compensate for this with Allen being the one mostly sitting in front of the back four although Gerrard has also done it as well through games. I have no problem with that in itself but the players used and the postions they are used in is not utilising each player to the best of thier abilities and in effect nullifying their best talents to fit into a system.

      Allen is fine where he is for now as until Lucas is back he is the man the boss can trust in his methods and can dictate the tempo of our play from deep so him as one of the two works fine for me.

      It is the other two and also futher forward where things are a bit skewed as far as I can see. Now I understand that he might want Gerrard beside Allen in the '2' as he is our most experienced player and does a real solid job there after he settled into how Brendan wanted his midfield players to play but I think that having one of our best attacking players in such a conservative role is limiting both the player and the team especially when we have others such as Sahin and Henderson who can just as easily do what Gerrard does there.  Sahin and Henderson, however, will not do what Gerrard can further up the pitch and that is create and score goals, something we are still lacking this season.

      Sahin, as you say, is a perfect fit for the role beside Allen and being left sided gives even more balance to the '2' and both have the ability to move further forward while one sits if and when the space opens up to do so.

      Brendan seems to prefer

      Allen Gerrard
      Sahin

      Where I feel this is much more balanced and makes better use of the players strengths

      Allen  Sahin

      Gerrard

      In saying that though I would go even further and move Gerrard out of the three completely, at least to try it, and have him in one of the positions in the front three for a couple of reasons.

      1. He is after Suarez our greatest attacking threat and to limit him to effectively a holding role is like playing him on a lead and also could be putting much more pressure on Luis than is needed as he always seems to feel he is the one who needs to be trying to score the goals. Stick Gerrard closer to Suarez and he has someone he feels he can share the burden with so to speak and just might give us more options up front.

      2. Shelvey/Suso
      Both these players are best playing in the '1' of the midfield three just behind the forwards and by always having Gerrard or as has happened most often Sahin there it is again taking a natural postion away from a player. I'd be more inclined to play Jonjo there initally but also if Suso doesn't start the gaame he'd be great coming on with 20/30 minutes left with space to play into and aagain if he had Gerrard, Suarez and Sterling to feed with space it could increase our attacking options.

      For me it can transform a side that appears to have little cutting edge to one making the best use of players available and maybe one with plenty of attacking options.

      Allen Sahin

      Shelvey/Suso

      Gerrard Suarez Sterling

      Brendan has talked about Gerrard as an attacking player yet has very rarely, if any, played him as one and I'm wondering if it is something the boss has seen in training or the extra insurance the captain gives in a deeper role that has stopped him from playing him as a forward but I really think that tactically it is holding us back a bit.

      Outstanding post - agree with everything you have posted there +1
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #30: Nov 09, 2012 07:05:14 am
      Fully agree Si

      That's what I was saying, Gerrard needs to be higher up the pitch, he is the best most natural finisher at the club so needs to be in the parts of the pitch where he can get in areas to use that.. I'd like to see him in the right of the front 3 as well, especially when Lucas is back as then you can have

          Lucas  Sahin

              Allen

      As the midfield 3..

      Completely agree that Shelvey and Suso need to be used as the point in the middle, Suso came on yesterday against Anshi more centrally as the game stretched and had a far bigger impact on the game, for those two to develop ( Jonjo and Suso) they need to learn from the more experienced heads and come on in games rather than try to dictate them from the off.. Not when we have the likes of Allen, Lucas, Sahin and Gerrard in there already.

      Downing has his limits, confidence belief and ability (  :D ) but he showed last night also that he has the defensive awareness to help the full backs which we have lacked in recent games and we need to stop looking like a soft touch at the back.


      Good post though Si, cheers for getting involved
      srslfc
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 25,908 posts | 2138 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #31: Nov 09, 2012 11:00:49 am
      Downing is an interesting one you raise PD and I see your point in him giving a little more defensivley in certain games than Sterling or Suso might in the wide posititions.

      But I feel he could really make something of his LFC career as a LB in Brendan's system. I first herad the idea floated by Niel Atkinson on The Anfield Wrap, at least I'm pretty sure it was him, as an attacking full back in a Rodgers system and then lo and behold we see the boss use him like that a couple of times.

      Brendan likes his full backs to push high up the pitch and see plenty of the ball and with us having the majority of possession in many of our games it makes sense to have a full back who is comfortable on the ball and can get forward. Also our full backs under Brendan are our main source of width and with Sterling most likely to cut inside then Downing will stay wide as we've seen before when he's played on the left.

      Now the key to this for me again is Lucas as I'm not sure our midfield as it stands is compact or 'defensive' enough if you like to cover if we had Johnson and Downing as the full backs but add Lucas in with Allen and we have a very solid midfield with Lucas having the positional awareness and ability to slot in to cover any gaps left by the FB.

      Skrtel       Agger

      Johnson                         Downing

         Lucas
               
                   Allen

      In this formation when the FB get forward Lucas just moves back and Skrtel and Agger move over to almost form a three.

      Skrtel        Lucas         Agger

      Allen

      Johnson                      Shelvey/Suso                      Downing

      Still looks solid at the back with plenty of options going forward and we still have Allen to feed the balls through to the attacking  players.

      It gives us more balance than having Glen on the left as both players are now on their natural side and also I feel Downing as mre ability to play how Brendan wants in FB than Enrique who is really just a player who runs down the line and puts a ball in the box. I knwo Stewert has been accused of crossing too much as well but he does have a bit more about him than Jose and I feel could really be coached into this role.

      He aslo doesn't need to feel left out of the attack as Geln has shown that a FB in  Rodgers system can be the most effective attacker at times.
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #32: Nov 09, 2012 11:08:23 am
      Interesting Si


      I was thinking the other day as well that the formation he used is the second half against Everton could be a useful one at times.. It would overlap with the point of Downing at full back..
      If we went 3 CBS he could use Downing and Johnson and even Enrique and Henderson as Wing backs..

      It could be a 3-5-2



                    Reina

          Coates Skrtel Agger

      Johnson                Downing

                 Lucas Allen

                   Gerrard

           Suarez        Sterling


      Or if he wanted to stay as a 3 up top a 3-4-3



                  Reina

        Coates Skrtel Agger


      Johnson             Downing
              Allen    Lucas


      Gerrard               Sterling
                   Suarez


      At the back in both you have ball playing CBS to bring it out ( Agger and Coates) you have width in the wing backs plus plenty supporting Luis..

      Wisdom and Kelly could be introduced to cb in a 3 as well and you have natural cover for the wing backs in Enrique and Henderson..

      It also allows Suso and Shelvey to play more as impact subs and centrally to affect games and develop.
      In the option with 2 up top in certain games you could just have Suarez up and one off him ( Gerrard or Suso) and drop an extra body into midfield.


      Lots of options even with a thin squad. I hope BR will show he is willing to adapt
      FATKOPITE10
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 10,608 posts | 1908 
      • Liverpool fc give me tourettes
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #33: Nov 09, 2012 11:12:30 am
      I think this is the system that should be used for games like Sunday, at home I think 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1 would be fine. It is encouraging to see the gaffer be flexible. As long as we don't play a pure three at the back then I'm quite happy.
      srslfc
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 25,908 posts | 2138 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #34: Nov 09, 2012 11:15:46 am
      A 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 is definitely an option as well using by adding Coates into the mix and would give us a little more defensively against the stronger attacking sides but against the majority of teams I'd still like to see him go with a 4-3-3 witht he players I mentioned at least to see how it works

      Reina

      Johnson    Skrtel    Agger    Downing

      Lucas
                   Allen

      Shelvey/Suso

      Gerrard   Suarez   Sterling

      Which would then become, when attacking

      Renia

      Skrtel        Lucas         Agger

      Allen

      Johnson                      Shelvey/Suso                      Downing

                 
             Gerrard   Suarez   Sterling
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #35: Nov 09, 2012 11:22:27 am
      Yeah definitely mate, almost using Lucas as a modern day sweeper...

      The last thing we can become though is predictable, at the top level you need to have adaptability... At the minute teams know they can press us high and get two on one against our full backs to force mistakes..
      Look where goals are coming against us..

      We need to show that we can do different things and not be predictable
      George Lucas
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 6,615 posts | 57 
      • JFT96
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #36: Nov 09, 2012 03:42:12 pm
      Great posts and debate from both of you guys - very good read , cheers guys
      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 17,935 posts | 2209 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #37: Nov 11, 2012 09:51:36 am
      To add to PD's and Si's excellent analysis, I think the reason Stevie is playing so deep is to give a bit of protection to Allen.

      Allen isn't a natural DM, he's used to playing higher up, dictating play and he's being asked to do a difficult job, with little experience around him.

      Stevie gives that, so I fully expect things to change when Lucas is back.

      srslfc
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 25,908 posts | 2138 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #38: Nov 11, 2012 11:09:53 am
      To add to PD's and Si's excellent analysis, I think the reason Stevie is playing so deep is to give a bit of protection to Allen.

      Allen isn't a natural DM, he's used to playing higher up, dictating play and he's being asked to do a difficult job, with little experience around him.

      Stevie gives that, so I fully expect things to change when Lucas is back.



      Fully agree Debs.

      I feel that Brendan trusts Stevie in there and am hoping once Lucas gets back the captain will become the attacker the boss has described him as.
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #39: Nov 11, 2012 04:03:15 pm
      Gone 3 at the back today at the bridge

      Looking forward to see how it works tactically

      First look Carra is central to Agger and Skrtel



                     Jones
       

            Skrtel Carra Agger

      Wisdom                    Enrique

               Allen      Gerrard

                      Sahin


                             Sterling

                 Suarez
      George Lucas
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 6,615 posts | 57 
      • JFT96
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #40: Nov 11, 2012 04:05:21 pm
      Gone 3 at the back today at the bridge

      Looking forward to see how it works tactically

      First look Carra is central Agger and Skrtel

      And Gerrard supporting higher up the pitch
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #41: Nov 11, 2012 04:06:37 pm
      And Gerrard supporting higher up the pitch

      Looks like Gerrard and Sahin switching early on

      When one goes the other sits
      srslfc
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 25,908 posts | 2138 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #42: Nov 11, 2012 04:35:31 pm
      Looks like a 1-2 in the middle now as Brendan seemed to be shouting for a while back.
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #43: Dec 06, 2012 08:06:57 am
      I have no issue with the style of play, in fact i very much enjoy that way of the game being played, once it really kicks in and if Brendan gets a couple of new faces in the group it may well lead to another successful part of our history..

      However...

      I dont get how its such a big change for these players to take on, at least in technical terms, maybe its more a mental thing, its essentially press high, pass the ball sharply, keep possesion of the ball and therefore the game..
      The likes of Pepe, Glen, Danny, Jose, Lucas, Allen, Henderson, Gerrard, Sahin, Cole, Borini, Suso, Sterling, Suarez etc etc all have qualities to allow them to play this type of game, maybe each of them dont have everyone but they all are top quality players who can pass a ball, and press a game.. So I personally would have expected quicker results in the way we are playing..
      Like i say maybe its a mental thing, maybe the mentality to pass short and sharp is being drilled into them rather than look long, however you can see even in Carra's game that he is looking shorter far more often so its sinking in..






      Now this is how i feel he is trying to get us to play, he wants the CBs to be the start of attacks when we go forward by dropping wide, (Dotted lines) and the full backs to push forward to create width, therefore making the front 3 more forwards than one forward and two wingers, Suarez has a free role but is the one who should join right up the middle, Stevie would be to add another body in the box and Lucas and Allen dictate the play. Lucas is key when we dont have the ball as he essentially becomes a modern day sweeper and makes a 3 at the back (Dotted line) when the full backs go forward.

      When we dont have the ball then the cbs become narrow and the full backs drop in, the wide forwrads also have a responsibility to drop deeper to win the ball back, Stevie and Allen press in midfield to get the ball back before it gets to Lucas and onto the cbs..

      What we are lacking though is probably two things.. Someone to take the responsibility from just Luis scoring and a better wide option than with all due respect Enrique..
      To make it work its essential we press from the top as soon as we lose the ball, have player able to do that job, all the wide players in the system need to be quick and agile, athletes if you will.. They need to get back and forward very quickly.. Now Johnson can do this, i believe Enrique can at full back, especially now Lucas is fit as he will have natural cover to his right, Sterling can.. And i beleive Suarez could out wide, or another new player, someone who could chip in with goals..

      This goes back to my if we only sign one player in January theory











      The right player could make such a difference, also keeping Lucas fit, he is essential to the system.... It then allows the likes of Suso, Wisdom to develop as subs/rotation... And us to make better use of the squad we have..

      I digress...


      The point im making though is that i dont think the players we have should be finding it a problem to play the way the manager wants them to, but we are maybe 1-2 players away from making it to something thats does more than merely function..

      Ideally we need a wide forward or central striker in January, both would be nice to give Brendan options, then going forward to the summer we could do with a natural cover for Lucas (I like Wanyama) a new cb/lb for the squad, an additional wide forward and a replacement in the squad for Sahin... Then let the kids develop around them and the managers system..



      We do need patience, im not fully happy with the first 6 months under Brendan, but thats having the high standards i have for this club, but i do see that we will get there and sooner rather than later..




      http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,44030.0.html

      This i found interesting that Solodee posted

      LFC TOP 3 Players for all aspects of the game as at 3rd December 2012

      Tackles
      - J. Allen (39 Tackles)
      - S. Gerrard (37 Tackles)
      - G. Johnson (32 Tackles)

      Effective Clearances
      - M. Skrtel (55)
      - D. Agger (33)
      - G. Johnson (26)

      Interceptions
      - J. Allen (35)
      - D. Agger (24)
      - M. Skrtel (23)

      Accurate Long Balls
      - S. Gerrard (160 passes)
      - J. Allen (76 passes)
      - J. Reina (61 passes)

      Duels won
      - R. Sterling (103)
      - L. Suarez (101)
      - G. Johnson (90)

      On-Targer Attempts
      - L. Suarez (26 shots)
      - J. Shelvey (11 shots)
      - S. Gerrard (8 Shots)

      Goal Attempts
      - L. Suarez (89 shots)
      - S. Gerrard (35 shots)
      - G. Johnson (24 shots)

      Accurate Forward Passes
      - S. Gerrard (513 passes)
      - J. Allen (408 passes)
      - L. Suarez (338 passes)

      Goal Assists
      - S. Gerrard; L. Suarez; Jose Enrique (all 2 Assists each)

      Subbed Off
      - N. Sahin (7 times)
      - Suso (6 times)
      - F. Borini (4 times)

      Fouls suffered
      - R. Sterling (33)
      - L. Suarez (29)
      - J. Allen (19)

      Fouls committed
      - L. Suarez (28)
      - R. Sterling (24)
      - J. Allen (18)

      Crosses
      - S. Gerrard (114)
      - G. Johnson (37)
      - R. Sterling (32)

      Accurate Passes
      - J. Allen (918)
      - S. Gerrard (826)
      - D. Agger (647)

      Subbed on
      - J. Shelvey (8 )
      - J. Henderson (6)
      - J. Carragher (5)

      There you have it

      In terms of the system

      Effective clearences

      Skrtel 55
      Agger 33

      we're missing Lucas as the ball is coming on to the cbs too much

      but

      Agger is 3rd on accurate passes with 647 so Agger as we would all expect is adapting better than Skrtel as Danny gets it fromthe keeper more often and doesnt just clear his lines following his interceptions.

      Interceptions also indicates we miss lucas as the 3 highest are Allen/Agger and Skrtel, there is no natural blocker for them, it also indictaes we need to be more effective pressing in the final 3rd..

      Fouls committed on the top two are Suarez and Sterling, our two players who commit the opposition, we need more people to do that.

      Goals attempts, Suarez 89, Gerrrard 35,Johnson 24, tells us we need more people taking chances in the final 3rd but that Glen is adapting well to his need to get forward and join the attack.
      However on terget attempts second is Shelvey who has hardly appeared... Need to improve



      Lastly on Gerrard

      2nd in tackles
      1st in accurate long balls
      3rd in on target attempts
      2nd in goals attempts
      1st (joint) in assists
      1st in accurate forward passes
      1st in crosses
      2nd in accurate passes

      Doesnt look bad on paper, maybe our expectations on him are too high, stat wise he has been good
      FATKOPITE10
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 10,608 posts | 1908 
      • Liverpool fc give me tourettes
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #44: Dec 06, 2012 11:51:16 am
      I have no issue with the style of play, in fact i very much enjoy that way of the game being played, once it really kicks in and if Brendan gets a couple of new faces in the group it may well lead to another successful part of our history..

      However...

      I dont get how its such a big change for these players to take on, at least in technical terms, maybe its more a mental thing, its essentially press high, pass the ball sharply, keep possesion of the ball and therefore the game..
      The likes of Pepe, Glen, Danny, Jose, Lucas, Allen, Henderson, Gerrard, Sahin, Cole, Borini, Suso, Sterling, Suarez etc etc all have qualities to allow them to play this type of game, maybe each of them dont have everyone but they all are top quality players who can pass a ball, and press a game.. So I personally would have expected quicker results in the way we are playing..
      Like i say maybe its a mental thing, maybe the mentality to pass short and sharp is being drilled into them rather than look long, however you can see even in Carra's game that he is looking shorter far more often so its sinking in..






      Now this is how i feel he is trying to get us to play, he wants the CBs to be the start of attacks when we go forward by dropping wide, (Dotted lines) and the full backs to push forward to create width, therefore making the front 3 more forwards than one forward and two wingers, Suarez has a free role but is the one who should join right up the middle, Stevie would be to add another body in the box and Lucas and Allen dictate the play. Lucas is key when we dont have the ball as he essentially becomes a modern day sweeper and makes a 3 at the back (Dotted line) when the full backs go forward.

      When we dont have the ball then the cbs become narrow and the full backs drop in, the wide forwrads also have a responsibility to drop deeper to win the ball back, Stevie and Allen press in midfield to get the ball back before it gets to Lucas and onto the cbs..

      What we are lacking though is probably two things.. Someone to take the responsibility from just Luis scoring and a better wide option than with all due respect Enrique..
      To make it work its essential we press from the top as soon as we lose the ball, have player able to do that job, all the wide players in the system need to be quick and agile, athletes if you will.. They need to get back and forward very quickly.. Now Johnson can do this, i believe Enrique can at full back, especially now Lucas is fit as he will have natural cover to his right, Sterling can.. And i beleive Suarez could out wide, or another new player, someone who could chip in with goals..

      This goes back to my if we only sign one player in January theory











      The right player could make such a difference, also keeping Lucas fit, he is essential to the system.... It then allows the likes of Suso, Wisdom to develop as subs/rotation... And us to make better use of the squad we have..

      I digress...


      The point im making though is that i dont think the players we have should be finding it a problem to play the way the manager wants them to, but we are maybe 1-2 players away from making it to something thats does more than merely function..

      Ideally we need a wide forward or central striker in January, both would be nice to give Brendan options, then going forward to the summer we could do with a natural cover for Lucas (I like Wanyama) a new cb/lb for the squad, an additional wide forward and a replacement in the squad for Sahin... Then let the kids develop around them and the managers system..



      We do need patience, im not fully happy with the first 6 months under Brendan, but thats having the high standards i have for this club, but i do see that we will get there and sooner rather than later..




      http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,44030.0.html

      This i found interesting that Solodee posted

      LFC TOP 3 Players for all aspects of the game as at 3rd December 2012

      Tackles
      - J. Allen (39 Tackles)
      - S. Gerrard (37 Tackles)
      - G. Johnson (32 Tackles)

      Effective Clearances
      - M. Skrtel (55)
      - D. Agger (33)
      - G. Johnson (26)

      Interceptions
      - J. Allen (35)
      - D. Agger (24)
      - M. Skrtel (23)

      Accurate Long Balls
      - S. Gerrard (160 passes)
      - J. Allen (76 passes)
      - J. Reina (61 passes)

      Duels won
      - R. Sterling (103)
      - L. Suarez (101)
      - G. Johnson (90)

      On-Targer Attempts
      - L. Suarez (26 shots)
      - J. Shelvey (11 shots)
      - S. Gerrard (8 Shots)

      Goal Attempts
      - L. Suarez (89 shots)
      - S. Gerrard (35 shots)
      - G. Johnson (24 shots)

      Accurate Forward Passes
      - S. Gerrard (513 passes)
      - J. Allen (408 passes)
      - L. Suarez (338 passes)

      Goal Assists
      - S. Gerrard; L. Suarez; Jose Enrique (all 2 Assists each)

      Subbed Off
      - N. Sahin (7 times)
      - Suso (6 times)
      - F. Borini (4 times)

      Fouls suffered
      - R. Sterling (33)
      - L. Suarez (29)
      - J. Allen (19)

      Fouls committed
      - L. Suarez (28)
      - R. Sterling (24)
      - J. Allen (18)

      Crosses
      - S. Gerrard (114)
      - G. Johnson (37)
      - R. Sterling (32)

      Accurate Passes
      - J. Allen (918)
      - S. Gerrard (826)
      - D. Agger (647)

      Subbed on
      - J. Shelvey (8 )
      - J. Henderson (6)
      - J. Carragher (5)

      There you have it

      In terms of the system

      Effective clearences

      Skrtel 55
      Agger 33

      we're missing Lucas as the ball is coming on to the cbs too much

      but

      Agger is 3rd on accurate passes with 647 so Agger as we would all expect is adapting better than Skrtel as Danny gets it fromthe keeper more often and doesnt just clear his lines following his interceptions.

      Interceptions also indicates we miss lucas as the 3 highest are Allen/Agger and Skrtel, there is no natural blocker for them, it also indictaes we need to be more effective pressing in the final 3rd..

      Fouls committed on the top two are Suarez and Sterling, our two players who commit the opposition, we need more people to do that.

      Goals attempts, Suarez 89, Gerrrard 35,Johnson 24, tells us we need more people taking chances in the final 3rd but that Glen is adapting well to his need to get forward and join the attack.
      However on terget attempts second is Shelvey who has hardly appeared... Need to improve



      Lastly on Gerrard

      2nd in tackles
      1st in accurate long balls
      3rd in on target attempts
      2nd in goals attempts
      1st (joint) in assists
      1st in accurate forward passes
      1st in crosses
      2nd in accurate passes

      Doesnt look bad on paper, maybe our expectations on him are too high, stat wise he has been good

      The modern obsession with stats is good up to a point but there is still a strong case for following what your eyes see. At the moment UEFA have created a good chance statistic which is pretty unreliable as a good chance for example to a striker who be harder for a centre back for example. The way to go is defo the way the team was set up against Southanpton, where we played higher up the pitch, with the odd tweek and a greater quality of player in the final third.
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #45: Dec 06, 2012 11:53:44 am
      The modern obsession with stats is good up to a point but there is still a strong case for following what your eyes see. At the moment UEFA have created a good chance statistic which is pretty unreliable as a good chance for example to a striker who be harder for a centre back for example. The way to go is defo the way the team was set up against Southanpton, where we played higher up the pitch, with the odd tweek and a greater quality of player in the final third.

      Oh I agree mate, it was just surprising as with the naked eye Stevie has been average for the most part this year..
      Just surprised how his "stats" stacked up in that report
      TheRedMosquito
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 12,201 posts | 632 
      • Elmore James got nothin' on this baby!
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #46: Dec 06, 2012 02:59:46 pm
      Oh I agree mate, it was just surprising as with the naked eye Stevie has been average for the most part this year..
      Just surprised how his "stats" stacked up in that report

      Agree. One thing to consider with Stevie and his goal attempts is how many are not even in the right time zone, and how many get blocked. He has to lead the team in shots blocked by a defender.
      srslfc
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 25,908 posts | 2138 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #47: Dec 07, 2012 10:19:26 am
      Great post above PD.

      Just to add to we now feel that with Lucas back, and considering his good form of late, Brendan will start to play Enrique at LB and have Glen in his more natural position?

      I think it is ideal as even when Jose has been playing ahead of Downing at LB he has done great work tracking back and shows he can quite capably hold the left side and with Lucas there to fill in when the full backs go forward to me it is what Brendan is looking for in these postions.


      Johnson  Skrtel  Agger  Enrique

      Lucas

      becomes

      Skrtel          Agger

      Lucas

      Johnson                                    Enrique


      Great balance both in attack and defense as Agger and Skrtel on their natural sides for defending with Lucas having the ability to drop in and cover runners.

      Also gets Glen on his natural attacking side, as although I think playing LB brings the best out of the defensive side of his game he is even better goinbg forward on the right.

      It also allows us to play a natural forward alongside Suarez on the left. As good as Enrique has been I feel he doesn't have the full attacking instincts to make the very best of the position and havinf Sterling there with Suso, Gerrard on the right is making the best of the players available.

      Like has been said many times Lucas is the key to getting the best out of the system.
      « Last Edit: Dec 07, 2012 11:19:55 am by srslfc »
      waltonl4
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 26,988 posts | 3671 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #48: Dec 07, 2012 08:01:10 pm
      Anyone suggested Lucas play alongside Agger or Skrtyl like Mascherano.It could work at home.
      MIRO
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 12,004 posts | 2546 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #49: Dec 07, 2012 08:37:46 pm
      Pace.

      Playing from the back.
      Pass and move the old way. All looking good.  Barca do it to perfection.

      Pace.
      We need to break with lightning speed and need the players up front to do that.

      We need the UNpredictability. The options. The ability if we are being pushed up on we can play the counter attack game and the opposition know it.

      Quick Reply