Tactics geeks of the world unite...

We always put eleven out not to give them an advantage from the start. Pass it around a bit, usually to someone wearing a red shirt. Then just kick it in their net and if you can't then give it to someone who can, and the lads at the back, just bust their bones, not allowing them to score, should it be more difficult than that?

Anyone here struggling to find a solution in fitting both Coutinho and Firmino in the same team? I feel both need mobile forwards. Firmino would thrive in his false #9 position with 2 inside forwards whilst Coutinho in #10 role with 2 mobile strikers. I  ust feel for a more balanced approach it's either Coutinho or Firmino.

Anyone here struggling to find a solution in fitting both Coutinho and Firmino in the same team? I feel both need mobile forwards. Firmino would thrive in his false #9 position with 2 inside forwards whilst Coutinho in #10 role with 2 mobile strikers. I  ust feel for a more balanced approach it's either Coutinho or Firmino.

I personally think Coutinho would be better in midfield rather than the front 3.

I personally think Coutinho would be better in midfield rather than the front 3.

Agree.

Can

Hendo         Phil

Firmino

Sturridge Ings

Agree.

Can

Hendo         Phil

Firmino

Sturridge Ings

*sigh* If only Si.

There must still be a place for a 4 4 2 in the game?

After last night I think Ive given up on the 1 up top lark. Ok maybe our current personnel aren't up to it and that can be changed in time. But is 4 4 2 dead? Would we be any worse with that formation.

Bare with me. I know these players are one and there day was different etc but really would a team build with players close to these not be effective today in that formation

            Clemence

Jones Hansen Hyppia Nicol

Callaghan Souness Gerrard Barnes

           Dalglish Rush

If that took the field today how would that team in that formation not be effective?? Obviously we don't have anything like these players but if we could buy those types in the next few windows would 4 4 2 not still in this era be a viable option?

There must still be a place for a 4 4 2 in the game?

After last night I think Ive given up on the 1 up top lark. Ok maybe our current personnel aren't up to it and that can be changed in time. But is 4 4 2 dead? Would we be any worse with that formation.

Bare with me. I know these players are one and there day was different etc but really would a team build with players close to these not be effective today in that formation

            Clemence

Jones Hansen Hyppia Nicol

Callaghan Souness Gerrard Barnes

           Dalglish Rush

If that took the field today how would that team in that formation not be effective?? Obviously we don't have anything like these players but if we could buy those types in the next few windows would 4 4 2 not still in this era be a viable option?

I personally think all formations are viable, you just need the right players to fit into the system. If we had Markovic with either Sturridge, Origi or Ings fit, I think we coulld play the old fashioned 442, but players like, Coutinho, Firmino, Lucas and Lallana would struggle imo.

Clyne, Lovre, Sahko, Moreno
Ibe   Hendo,  Milner, Markovic
       Sturridge,  Ings

With 442 these days, I think we'd see us play more counter attacking with quick direct attacking football. I wouldn't be against it, but we'll need our strikers fit and to buy 2 new wingers that are better than Markovic and Ibe.

There must still be a place for a 4 4 2 in the game?

After last night I think Ive given up on the 1 up top lark. Ok maybe our current personnel aren't up to it and that can be changed in time. But is 4 4 2 dead? Would we be any worse with that formation.

Bare with me. I know these players are one and there day was different etc but really would a team build with players close to these not be effective today in that formation

            Clemence

Jones Hansen Hyppia Nicol

Callaghan Souness Gerrard Barnes

           Dalglish Rush

If that took the field today how would that team in that formation not be effective?? Obviously we don't have anything like these players but if we could buy those types in the next few windows would 4 4 2 not still in this era be a viable option?

That team would kick ass in any era Brian! And in just about any formation I imagine! I don't think 4-4-2 is dead, the game just tends to move in cycles and I've no doubt it will come back into fashion. I certainly think we could utilise it if Benteke is on the side, it's absolutely clear that he isn't really working as lone frontman so I would be tempted to play Firmino up there with him and give the Brazilain licence to roam. I also like 4-4-2 when it come s to Jürgen's gegenpress. If you front two are busy (think Ings and Suarez busy) you can squeeze you wide men up onto their full backs and have your back four shorten the pitch.

Just looking back at last nights game I can't help but be disappointed by the managers tactics (don't get me wrong I'm fookin stoked to be in the final). The first half especially, we sat off them, let them relax into the game and build confidence, we didn't press the ball in their final third until the last minutes of the first half and we really played like a side who were 1-0 up and thought they could defend the no problem. Our best performances under Jürgen have been played at break neck speed, high press, high energy and quick tempo with and without the ball. I didn't see much of that last night. It looked like the lads set themselves  to play on the counter but we lack the pace to pull it off, particularly without Ibe in the side.

Just looking back at last nights game I can't help but be disappointed by the managers tactics (don't get me wrong I'm fookin stoked to be in the final). The first half especially, we sat off them, let them relax into the game and build confidence, we didn't press the ball in their final third until the last minutes of the first half and we really played like a side who were 1-0 up and thought they could defend the no problem. Our best performances under Jürgen have been played at break neck speed, high press, high energy and quick tempo with and without the ball. I didn't see much of that last night. It looked like the lads set themselves  to play on the counter but we lack the pace to pull it off, particularly without Ibe in the side.

we find it almost impossible to put two good performances together and that has to be the weak mentality of the players.
But having said that I think they have improved in so much we don't fall apart these days when we concede a goal.
Its really hard to assess this team any success will be a gift next season will be different

Just looking back at last nights game I can't help but be disappointed by the managers tactics (don't get me wrong I'm fookin stoked to be in the final). The first half especially, we sat off them, let them relax into the game and build confidence, we didn't press the ball in their final third until the last minutes of the first half and we really played like a side who were 1-0 up and thought they could defend the no problem. Our best performances under Jürgen have been played at break neck speed, high press, high energy and quick tempo with and without the ball. I didn't see much of that last night. It looked like the lads set themselves  to play on the counter but we lack the pace to pull it off, particularly without Ibe in the side.

I think it is simply against teams that play long ball we struggle to press, while teams that try to play from the back we are having much greater success with the press (and with winning the game too).

It is hard to press when most of the time the opposition is just launching the ball forward over your head, while if you do press against the long ball you can quickly find yourselves outnumbered at the back.

We need to find a way to counter this tactic as most sides now know our strengths and more importantly our weaknesses.

I think it is simply against teams that play long ball we struggle to press, while teams that try to play from the back we are having much greater success with the press (and with winning the game too).

It is hard to press when most of the time the opposition is just launching the ball forward over your head, while if you do press against the long ball you can quickly find yourselves outnumbered at the back.

We need to find a way to counter this tactic as most sides now know our strengths and more importantly our weaknesses.

we need to bring teams on to us if we want to counter attack but that doesn't happen at Anfield .

Irresespective of playing at a tempo or countering long balls, nothing can beat the advantage of having a functional midfield that can do the basics........yup just the basics will do, I'm not even asking for anything fancy......

Irresespective of playing at a tempo or countering long balls, nothing can beat the advantage of having a functional midfield that can do the basics........yup just the basics will do, I'm not even asking for anything fancy......

having one of them with a brain might be a start when did we see one of our midfield players just put his foot on the ball and look to see what is going on. They are like clockwork mice we wind them up and let them go.

I think it is simply against teams that play long ball we struggle to press, while teams that try to play from the back we are having much greater success with the press (and with winning the game too).

It is hard to press when most of the time the opposition is just launching the ball forward over your head, while if you do press against the long ball you can quickly find yourselves outnumbered at the back.

We need to find a way to counter this tactic as most sides now know our strengths and more importantly our weaknesses.

I don't think Stoke were overly long ball though mate, that might have been what Klopp was expecting but they played through the thirds plenty and aren't such a bad little footballing side with Bojan, Affelay, Arnautovic and Xerdan pulling the strings. We could and should have got after them last night but I felt we kinda handed them the initiative and were (if we're honest) a bit lucky to get through.

we find it almost impossible to put two good performances together and that has to be the weak mentality of the players.
But having said that I think they have improved in so much we don't fall apart these days when we concede a goal.
Its really hard to assess this team any success will be a gift next season will be different

So much of it stems from our TOTAL dysfunction in the striking department. Big Ben is as a big a misfit as you could possibly find in this squad and Firmino can be successful but seemingly only against the big boys who are looking to play a different way. A failure to land a centre forward during this window means we are destined to continue with the one step forward one step back that we have seen so far under Herr Klopp. It's frustrating when you k ow you've got the right man for the job, you get glimpses of what he is trying to do and how good it could be BUT you know he doesn't have the right mix of players to make it work consistently. I reckon next season will be boss but FSG have the power to shape this season if they can steer a couple of deals over the line. That's the most frustrating thing for me.

Whilst I agree that a lot of our players aren't playing well and some need to be offloaded, that doesn't necessary mean they are not good enough. Look at Leicester, a perfect example where they were rock bottom last season, but now look at them. How many of them that play regularly this season were regulars last season? How many of those players would we or any of the other big clubs wanted last summer?
The majority of our players are good enough to play at a high level, but our fundamental problem is the lack of chemistry on the pitch because we have such an unbalanced squad of players.

How can we play a false 9 (Firmino) when we don't have quick inside forwards making runs behind the opposition defence? How can Lucas keep the play ticking when players like Can, Hendo and Milner struggle to play a possession based game? Whats the point of our full backs bombing forward when Lucas doesn't have the legs to cover? What about Lallana, he only functions well when playing off a target man, but what's the point of Benteke when we don't have wingers? etc etc.

I think Klopp needs take a gamble and throw in 3-4 kids into the first team to try and balance our first team out. I would love to see players like Ward, Smith, Brannagan, Rossiter, Teixeria, Ojo, Kent or Ilori thrown into the mix and given a chance with the main team on a regular basis in the league from now on, seriously, what do we have to lose? not as if we're getting into top 4 now.

Agreed.  It looks to me like a mentality issue with some players of the First XI looking fearful of failure/criticism and being tentative.  They also seem to fold very easily at any setback, look perplexed at what's happening and powerless to change it.  We need a cast-iron leader(s).

I'd criticize Klopp for not having tried at least 2 reserve lads (my choices would be Ojo and Smith) in the preferred League starting XIs.  Especially after the cup games, in which these players enhanced their claims IMHO.  Tex is a possibility although I worry that he would offer too little resistance in our midfield, which can look flimsy as it is.

We look better playing a more direct, rather than possession, game, too and I'd want pace where we can get it, meaning stick Ibe up top as a gamble that might hit lucky.

Its time for Jürgen to show his instinct for a radical solution and take chances with the hungry young lads.

Based on players current form/fitness I would go with this team for a few games...

                   
                 Mignolet

Clyne   Caulker    Lovren   Smith 

                   Lucas

           Milner       Allen

       Firmino            Coutinho

                Sturridge

Subs: Ward, Flanno, Sakho, Brannagan, Hendo, Lallana, Ojo

We seriously do not have "two good players in every position". Something which Rafa tried to build. When this happens, there's complacency and players take their starting positions for granted.

Coupled with the fact that good players do not want to join us while average players see us as a "career advancement". Because they're bang average and they worked so hard to get here, some of them are perhaps burned out right after their transfer is concluded. With higher pay at a more prestigious club and average skill, these brunt out guys know they probably can't step another notch to get to Barca or Real. Hence, they hang on to their dear wages because they're so afraid of a pay cut.

Then it doesn't matter if they win or lose as they're still paid the same. Some may even feel they're overpaid for the amount of effort they put in but are not guilty of drawing their wage or overstaying at all. To average players, joining us is a career advancement and a slim chance to glory. Most of them don't even bother putting up a fight. The last man who truly did was Stevie.

Compare this team with Rafa or even Roy Evan's team. You can bet that even to the very last minute, each and every player will fight tooth and nail to the very end. How will our current team play in the second half of Istanbul 2005? This team lacks the passion to win in short.

I see a disparity. We fans take pride in winning every match because we're Liverpool. And this is our club. But I don't think many players play with passion and take pride in putting on the red shirt judging by match day body language. Except for the scousers and the woolybacks who truly know what it means. Henderson's passion for instance is with Sunderland. Extreme example - Mario's passion is himself.

We've owners' whose idea of football is oval shaped, a TC that doesn't want to buy the best players and players who lack passion and determination. We now even have to pay more to watch this sh*t.

As another of many self proclaimed "Liverpool manager" I believe we must increase the competition level in our squad. This will kick out complacency. I agree with Klopp's style. He won't be held ransom by the TC, a la Mario. But I think it will take quite awhile to strengthen the mentality of the players.

Am sure there is a set pieces thread somewhere in the archives but here's as good a place as any. Have been watching England tonight and also at the weekend and what has really stood out for me is just how fookin useless Henderson and Milner are at delivering corners and they are our two primary takers at the club. They are simply woeful, Henderson might have laid in a decent delivery for the winner in Germany but the previous 6/7 corners were shockers, high looping deliveries with very little pace. Ditto for Milner tonight, no pace, no whip, no bend. Coutinho should be on all set pieces for the rest of the season as far as I'm concerned and then really we need to buy someone who can take a decent dead ball because without Luis and Stevie we're terrible.

Have been watching England tonight and also at the weekend and what has really stood out for me is just how fookin useless Henderson and Milner are at delivering corners and they are our two primary takers at the club.

Our set-piece taking has been chronic for a while now.  Not only is Henderson poor at taking them, but he's hardly the kind of player who could be at the edge of the box and smash in a rebound.

He'd be better back on our half way line while Sakho, Lovren or Skrtel went up to try and get their head on it.

Some of our best corners I've seen this season have been taken by the younger players in the cup games - which suggests at least that it is something they work on at the Academy.

I don't know enough about Klopp's 'Dortmund years' but I'd like to think it is something that he will be interested in improving.

For us, for a few seasons now, corners have been all pain and no gain.

(I've cut Milner a bit of slack as he is at least pretty good at the set-piece from the spot)

Hopefully one of the new summer signings are better at set piece deliveries as there is no one at the club currently who can take a corner and I would say we need a more reliable alternative to Coutinho taking free kicks.