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      Tactics geeks of the world unite...

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      Robby The Z
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #775: Jan 19, 2018 02:47:00 am
      A video of the different pressing formations / structures we used in the City game. Look at how organised and well drilled that pressing is. Brilliant to watch.

      Look at how the players are constantly checking their surroundings, looking to their teammates, looking for pressingtriggers, timing their runs to perfection.

      That's also one of the reasons why Klopp slowly introduces new players into the team and why it took a while for Chamberlain to start in midfield. He was very good against City and was a very big part of our pressing game.

      Can was phenomenal.

      https://vimeo.com/251122907

      This is so well done. It also has me thinking of what goes on in the last 5-10 minutes of some of these games. James Milner talked about being boring and killing games, but that usually is translated sitting back, putting in another center back and or another holding mid. You look at the City game, against the most talented team in the league, and you see just how the defending truly does start at the front. Then at the end, with subbing on Milner and Lallana, you don't see that kind of organization, and of course they enjoyed more success and made it a tight game. I wonder if the emphasis at the end should be more about pressing than about "being boring." I understand there will be fatigue issues toward the end, but shouldn't the emphasis on subs be on players who can keep the press going. And maybe it is, I don't know but I look at that video (and I've watched the match 4 times now) and I see they were mainly contained because they couldn't build out of the back.
      skamp
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #776: Jan 19, 2018 09:36:20 am
      Is there an issue that the intensity of the pressing in the first 75 mins (and it was intense, even if selective)  meant we ran out of steam a bit towards the end?  If we could press like that for 90 mins, we'd win an awful lot of games and not concede too many.
      Danzel
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #777: Jan 19, 2018 04:05:08 pm
      I mentioned this in more of an attacking sense but i'm a huge fan of this system, especially with the players we have at our disposal.

      I like the 4-2-3-1 system too, it's perfect for pressing as shown in the video and he used it at Dortmund all the time. I however don't fully agree that it's the best system for us to use offensively. Who would you play as the #9 and who would you play as the #10 in that system? You'd need two players that can interchange well. A traditional #10 in that system would occupy the space that Firmino likes to operate in. So unless the #10 is comfortable switching positions and running in behind the opposition defence, I think it would limit our attacking play and Firmino's strong points too much. I could see that work with a combination of Lallana and Firmino though, could be interesting.

      I don't think we've used that formation often when Firmino started up top? So far, from what I remember, we've only used it this season when Solanke was starting and Firmino wasn't. In terms of player profile Solanke is closest to what he had in Lewandowski for his 4-2-3-1.

      What I do like and what we've only started seeing this season, is the 4-4-2 / 4-2-4 or whatever formation you want to call it. We've got good wide players for that system in Mane and Chamberlain and with Firmino and Salah we've got two incredibly intelligent players who combine really well, can play of eachother and can drop deep / run in behind the defence.

      This is so well done. It also has me thinking of what goes on in the last 5-10 minutes of some of these games. James Milner talked about being boring and killing games, but that usually is translated sitting back, putting in another center back and or another holding mid. You look at the City game, against the most talented team in the league, and you see just how the defending truly does start at the front. Then at the end, with subbing on Milner and Lallana, you don't see that kind of organization, and of course they enjoyed more success and made it a tight game. I wonder if the emphasis at the end should be more about pressing than about "being boring." I understand there will be fatigue issues toward the end, but shouldn't the emphasis on subs be on players who can keep the press going. And maybe it is, I don't know but I look at that video (and I've watched the match 4 times now) and I see they were mainly contained because they couldn't build out of the back.

      I think the emphasis is on subs who can keep the press going. How often this season have we seen fans questioning Klopp's subs and in game management because we are still pressing late on in games rather than sitting back and closing out games the way the chavs and the mancs would for example?

      The issue is not what Klopp wants to do, the issue is the lack of depth in terms of players who can execute the press to the level our starting eleven can. Fatigue will always be a factor of course.

      If you look at the City game as an example. Due to illness Can was taken off and replaced by Milner and later on Salah by Lallana. All the tactical analysis shows how important Can was to our shape and pressing throughout the game. Klopp clearly wanted to keep it going, but Milner has neither the legs or the pace (plus he's also a poor tackler) to  execute it like Can did and that was a major issue.

      Look at how we conceded the second goal and who was easily beaten while trying to press. It's Milner. So the emphasis was still on pressing and the gameplan was still the same, that wasn't the issue. The issue was / is Milner not being good enough to execute the press. Had Can still been on the pitch in that situation, I'm fairly sure we wouldn't have conceded that goal.

      Going over our squad and our starting eleven, let's say this is our strongest starting eleven (when everyone is fit):

      Karius, Clyne, Matip, Van Dijk, Robertson (or Moreno), Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Mane, Salah and Firmino.

      Then you look at the bench, when fatigue starts to kick in. Who do you sub on when you want to keep the emphasis on pressing? Other than our starting eleven, we have only got two or three other players who can execute the press: Henderson and Chamberlain. The rest are good players (Milner, Sturridge, ...), but they're not what we need in a pressing side. You'll always have injuries and both Henderson and Lallana are out injured quite frequently, so our options there are pretty thin. Once Klopp is able to bring in more players (Keita will certainly help) who can execute the press too, we'll be a lot better later on in games. Our starting eleven is getting as close to a "Full Klopp side" as it gets, now it's time to improve the squad and for that the signing of Chamberlain for example was very important.

      The other problem is the kind of side you're facing. You can only press a side that allows themselves to be pressed. When bottom / midtable league teams are chasing goals, they don't play football like City did, they bypass the press and play long diagonal balls into our FB areas or into the box and try to win the second ball (we've conceded quite a few in this manner). In that situation pressing is pointless so the only solution is bringing on the extra CB / midfielder.

      We did to City what other teams regularly do to us, we bypassed the press by playing longballs in behind their midfield.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Onj-oYpYlac

      Here you see how important Wijnaldum and Chamberlain were in limiting Gündogan and more importantly De Bruyne. Wijnaldum was amazing and was tasked with man marking De Bruyne for spells during the game while also cutting off the supply to De Bruyne. It was only once Wijnaldum started to get tired, that De Bruyne managed to get into the game and get things going for City.
      « Last Edit: Jan 19, 2018 04:31:12 pm by Danzel »
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #778: Jan 20, 2018 02:50:16 am
      I like the 4-2-3-1 system too, it's perfect for pressing as shown in the video and he used it at Dortmund all the time. I however don't fully agree that it's the best system for us to use offensively. Who would you play as the #9 and who would you play as the #10 in that system? You'd need two players that can interchange well. A traditional #10 in that system would occupy the space that Firmino likes to operate in. So unless the #10 is comfortable switching positions and running in behind the opposition defence, I think it would limit our attacking play and Firmino's strong points too much. I could see that work with a combination of Lallana and Firmino though, could be interesting.

      I don't think we've used that formation often when Firmino started up top? So far, from what I remember, we've only used it this season when Solanke was starting and Firmino wasn't. In terms of player profile Solanke is closest to what he had in Lewandowski for his 4-2-3-1.

      What I do like and what we've only started seeing this season, is the 4-4-2 / 4-2-4 or whatever formation you want to call it. We've got good wide players for that system in Mane and Chamberlain and with Firmino and Salah we've got two incredibly intelligent players who combine really well, can play of eachother and can drop deep / run in behind the defence.

      I think the emphasis is on subs who can keep the press going. How often this season have we seen fans questioning Klopp's subs and in game management because we are still pressing late on in games rather than sitting back and closing out games the way the chavs and the mancs would for example?

      The issue is not what Klopp wants to do, the issue is the lack of depth in terms of players who can execute the press to the level our starting eleven can. Fatigue will always be a factor of course.

      If you look at the City game as an example. Due to illness Can was taken off and replaced by Milner and later on Salah by Lallana. All the tactical analysis shows how important Can was to our shape and pressing throughout the game. Klopp clearly wanted to keep it going, but Milner has neither the legs or the pace (plus he's also a poor tackler) to  execute it like Can did and that was a major issue.

      Look at how we conceded the second goal and who was easily beaten while trying to press. It's Milner. So the emphasis was still on pressing and the gameplan was still the same, that wasn't the issue. The issue was / is Milner not being good enough to execute the press. Had Can still been on the pitch in that situation, I'm fairly sure we wouldn't have conceded that goal.

      Going over our squad and our starting eleven, let's say this is our strongest starting eleven (when everyone is fit):

      Karius, Clyne, Matip, Van Dijk, Robertson (or Moreno), Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Mane, Salah and Firmino.

      Then you look at the bench, when fatigue starts to kick in. Who do you sub on when you want to keep the emphasis on pressing? Other than our starting eleven, we have only got two or three other players who can execute the press: Henderson and Chamberlain. The rest are good players (Milner, Sturridge, ...), but they're not what we need in a pressing side. You'll always have injuries and both Henderson and Lallana are out injured quite frequently, so our options there are pretty thin. Once Klopp is able to bring in more players (Keita will certainly help) who can execute the press too, we'll be a lot better later on in games. Our starting eleven is getting as close to a "Full Klopp side" as it gets, now it's time to improve the squad and for that the signing of Chamberlain for example was very important.

      The other problem is the kind of side you're facing. You can only press a side that allows themselves to be pressed. When bottom / midtable league teams are chasing goals, they don't play football like City did, they bypass the press and play long diagonal balls into our FB areas or into the box and try to win the second ball (we've conceded quite a few in this manner). In that situation pressing is pointless so the only solution is bringing on the extra CB / midfielder.

      We did to City what other teams regularly do to us, we bypassed the press by playing longballs in behind their midfield.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Onj-oYpYlac

      Here you see how important Wijnaldum and Chamberlain were in limiting Gündogan and more importantly De Bruyne. Wijnaldum was amazing and was tasked with man marking De Bruyne for spells during the game while also cutting off the supply to De Bruyne. It was only once Wijnaldum started to get tired, that De Bruyne managed to get into the game and get things going for City.

      So mainly what I was trying to say is that keeping the press going, rather than packing and killing off like Milner and a number of fans on here say, is the better approach for our team re protecting a lead. As you mentioned, Can only came off because he was ill. You make a good point about Milner not being good at that role, and I've started to think this is probably his last year with the team. Model professional and all that, but Father Time remains undefeated. Adam to me is still some way from full fitness.

      Also agree about the opposition mattering in terms of what tactic we use both early and late in a match.

      The only thing I disagree with in your post is that Lallana is in the first XI when all things are equal. I think Ox is that player now and Adam is a backup. I agree he can be a very effective late sub when he gets his fitness. I think it was Graeme Le Saux on the American telecast Sunday who said Lallana would put 90 minutes of running into a xx-minute shift (forget how long he was on for, less than 10 mins I think), but in fact he really didn't do that. Hopefully he regains full fitness soon because out substitute attacking options at the moment don't look plentiful.

      And that video is excellent again. Do you do these? Or otherwise, where do you find this stuff?


      « Last Edit: Jan 20, 2018 03:03:52 am by Robby The Z »
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #779: Jan 24, 2018 02:57:37 am
      Read this tonight and found it interesting. Prior to Swansea's goal from a corner on Monday, we had successfully dealt with  51 consecutive opposition corners. I have to confess I don't know what the typical percentage on that is, but that sounds like a pretty decent standard to me.

      And yet Martin Tyler launched right into the old spiel when they scored, and I guess it crossed my mind too. Maybe we have actually gotten pretty decent at defending these on the whole.

      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #780: Jan 28, 2018 02:53:38 am
      Is it just me, or am I the only one that thinks the root of all this is the midfield ( I have done for many seasons) and how unbalanced we are? Midfield is a shambles, there just isn't any balance or control. We have Wijnaldum, Can, Milner and Hendo, then you have that attacking midfield role in which we have Lallana and Ox, and whilst I actually think all 6 are very good players, the problem lies within how similar they are, all industrial and considered secondary type players with their main strengths being work rate and fitness. We are pretty much forcing our secondary type players into playing hub roles.

      Remember how Sakho was the answer to our defence? How about Lovren? Then Matip and now we bring in VVD but still the same problem, why is that? Are we gonna be blaming VVD next and wanting to sign another CB? Perhaps if our defenders had better midfield protection, we would actually be decent ish (:D) at the back? But then, what players do we have that are capable of offering that protection, but also able to distribute as good as a proper defensive midfielder?

      As for attacking play, I am not sure whether the team was built for Coutinho , but I sure as hell see that this team with the players we have are dis-jointed and needing a puppet master to pull the strings, especially when we pin the opposition back and have the brunt of possession, so having that one playmaker will make all the difference and allow the engine to run smoothly.

      And before you say one player doesn't make a huge difference,  I believe he does. Imagine Barca without Messi, Real without Ronaldo (when he was in his peak), Arsenal without Sanchez, PSG without Neymar, Napoli without Jorginho, Spurs without Eriksen, City without De Bruyne etc, they would be far weaker and probably wouldn't function right.

      So yeah, that's how I see it anyway, secondary midfielders being asked to play hub roles. The midfield is the biggest problem for me.
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #781: Jan 28, 2018 07:55:34 pm
      Is it just me, or am I the only one that thinks the root of all this is the midfield ( I have done for many seasons) and how unbalanced we are? Midfield is a shambles, there just isn't any balance or control. We have Wijnaldum, Can, Milner and Hendo, then you have that attacking midfield role in which we have Lallana and Ox, and whilst I actually think all 6 are very good players, the problem lies within how similar they are, all industrial and considered secondary type players with their main strengths being work rate and fitness. We are pretty much forcing our secondary type players into playing hub roles.

      Remember how Sakho was the answer to our defence? How about Lovren? Then Matip and now we bring in VVD but still the same problem, why is that? Are we gonna be blaming VVD next and wanting to sign another CB? Perhaps if our defenders had better midfield protection, we would actually be decent ish (:D) at the back? But then, what players do we have that are capable of offering that protection, but also able to distribute as good as a proper defensive midfielder?

      As for attacking play, I am not sure whether the team was built for Coutinho , but I sure as hell see that this team with the players we have are dis-jointed and needing a puppet master to pull the strings, especially when we pin the opposition back and have the brunt of possession, so having that one playmaker will make all the difference and allow the engine to run smoothly.

      And before you say one player doesn't make a huge difference,  I believe he does. Imagine Barca without Messi, Real without Ronaldo (when he was in his peak), Arsenal without Sanchez, PSG without Neymar, Napoli without Jorginho, Spurs without Eriksen, City without De Bruyne etc, they would be far weaker and probably wouldn't function right.

      So yeah, that's how I see it anyway, secondary midfielders being asked to play hub roles. The midfield is the biggest problem for me.

      With the glaring exception of the need for a dominant goalkeeper, I agree, its a concern.  Our midfield either functions like a well oiled piece of German automotive technology or it swerves off the road and cartwheels into a tree.  The difference seems to be the opposition and how they set up and play.  I agree that we lack that on-field tactical vision to see what's developing ahead and find the right (long/medium) pass.  I also agree that our defence is exposed completely at times by our lack of defensive thinking in midfield. 
      I actually think the midfielders all run around too much!  The very quality they are praised for.  Getting into defensive positions quickly and cohesively and holding those positions would help us as a defensive unit, but we're set up to attack so completely that we simply don't have men close enough to those ideal positions when needed.  Hence the furious racing about. That's how I see it. 

      Having said that, I've decided not to dwell on the last two games too much.  It's how we respond to adversity that will be the measure of us all, not what that adversity does to us in the short term.
       
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #782: Feb 05, 2018 01:56:38 am
      It's the same old sh*t isn't it? We struggle to manage the game in winning positions, and it all stems from midfield as usual. As soon as Keita comes in and we get a proper #6 (DM or DLPM) that is comfortable in tight areas and a beast of a distributor, I can see us controlling the middle like how City, Napoli and Barca does.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #783: Feb 05, 2018 08:13:34 am
      It's the same old sh*t isn't it? We struggle to manage the game in winning positions, and it all stems from midfield as usual. As soon as Keita comes in and we get a proper #6 (DM or DLPM) that is comfortable in tight areas and a beast of a distributor, I can see us controlling the middle like how City, Napoli and Barca does.

      Definitely an issue in the second half once the work horses ran out of steam. The hoof up to Salah and hoping for some magic meant that the back line never got a breather. That sort of pressure will eventually lead to a mistake somewhere.

      If we're going to try and park the bus then we really needed someone in midfield who has the ability to carry the ball out and find one of the forward players with an accurate pass.

      Otherwise we could have bought on Solanke and asked him to hold onto the ball to relieve some pressure.

      Tactically a poor second half.
      Scottbot
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #784: Feb 05, 2018 01:42:20 pm
      It's the same old sh*t isn't it? We struggle to manage the game in winning positions, and it all stems from midfield as usual. As soon as Keita comes in and we get a proper #6 (DM or DLPM) that is comfortable in tight areas and a beast of a distributor, I can see us controlling the middle like how City, Napoli and Barca does.

      So a whole new midfield then!!! That wouldn't be a bad idea!

      yesterday was the first game I have felt that we have really missed Coutinho. In the first half our final ball cost us a couple more goals and in the 2nd we simply couldn't keep hold of it, we got deeper and deeper, the lads got knackered and we surrendered 65% possession. Were simply not good enough or well drilled enough defensively to spend that much time without the ball against quality opposition. Your typical mourinho team can play that way but it's not in the DNA of our lads. Did anyone really believe we would keep a clean sheet? I didn't for one second. Had Coutinho been involved we at least would have had an outlet, someone who can get the ball in tight areas, retain it (or win a foul) and then give us a second or two to get up the pitch.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #785: Feb 05, 2018 02:17:05 pm
      So a whole new midfield then!!! That wouldn't be a bad idea!

      yesterday was the first game I have felt that we have really missed Coutinho. In the first half our final ball cost us a couple more goals and in the 2nd we simply couldn't keep hold of it, we got deeper and deeper, the lads got knackered and we surrendered 65% possession. Were simply not good enough or well drilled enough defensively to spend that much time without the ball against quality opposition. Your typical mourinho team can play that way but it's not in the DNA of our lads. Did anyone really believe we would keep a clean sheet? I didn't for one second. Had Coutinho been involved we at least would have had an outlet, someone who can get the ball in tight areas, retain it (or win a foul) and then give us a second or two to get up the pitch.

      I was thinking today, what if we had De Bruyne and Fernandinho (city), or Jorginho and Hamsik (Napoli), or Busquets and Coutinho (Barca), or Eriksen and average Dier (Spurs), or Mkhitaryan and Wilshere (Arsenal), or Matic and Herrera (Utd), or Pjanic and Khedira (Juventus), Verratti (PSG), or Casemiro and Isco (Real)... f**k, even Lucas and Luis Alberto (Lazio) etc, would that make a huge difference? I don't know, but what I do know is, we would have better control in midfield and dominate the middle, which in return wouldn't have us work as hard off the ball.

      Now put Hendo and Wijnaldum/Can in there to replace them, adding their 3rd industrial midfielder (Matuidi, Dembele, Rakitic, Pogba, Allan, Rabiot etc) into the equation, how different would their playing styles be, right?

      Not saying our midfielders are sh*t, believe it or not, I would put Hendo, Can and Wijnaldum in the top tier bracket in what they do (pressing, box-boxing and support play) when they are on their game, but how can we look to dominate/control the middle when all our midfielders (even our attacking ones in Lallana and Ox) are pretty much the same type?



      Scottbot
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #786: Feb 05, 2018 09:32:29 pm
      I was thinking today, what if we had De Bruyne and Fernandinho (city), or Jorginho and Hamsik (Napoli), or Busquets and Coutinho (Barca), or Eriksen and average Dier (Spurs), or Mkhitaryan and Wilshere (Arsenal), or Matic and Herrera (Utd), or Pjanic and Khedira (Juventus), Verratti (PSG), or Casemiro and Isco (Real)... f**k, even Lucas and Luis Alberto (Lazio) etc, would that make a huge difference? I don't know, but what I do know is, we would have better control in midfield and dominate the middle, which in return wouldn't have us work as hard off the ball.

      Now put Hendo and Wijnaldum/Can in there to replace them, adding their 3rd industrial midfielder (Matuidi, Dembele, Rakitic, Pogba, Allan, Rabiot etc) into the equation, how different would their playing styles be, right?

      Not saying our midfielders are sh*t, believe it or not, I would put Hendo, Can and Wijnaldum in the top tier bracket in what they do (pressing, box-boxing and support play) when they are on their game, but how can we look to dominate/control the middle when all our midfielders (even our attacking ones in Lallana and Ox) are pretty much the same type?





      I'd love Hamsik from Napoli mate, exactly the sort of player we should be after and at 30 he wouldn't cost the world either. Terrific passer, great vision and big and strong. He would be perfect alongside Keita and Either of Henderson or Gino. Without a doubt we need a creative player in there, a Modric or Rakitic type. Keith looks a cracking little player but I'm not sure he fully ticks that box although he has a great eye for a through ball. On many levels it was a bit absurd seeing us linked to Jack Wilshere at the weekend and I couldn't see it happening but we could do with that sort of player.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #787: Feb 12, 2018 11:11:46 am
      crouchinho
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #788: Feb 12, 2018 10:24:49 pm
      Is it just me, or am I the only one that thinks the root of all this is the midfield ( I have done for many seasons) and how unbalanced we are? Midfield is a shambles, there just isn't any balance or control.

      Balance, control or protection.

      Buy four world class defenders and a keeper and we'd still have a lot of the same issues.

      The midfield is the biggest issue for me. By a distance.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #789: Apr 25, 2018 04:10:59 pm
      Our goals vs. Roma:

      1. Roma in possession, their own end near the center circle.
      Henderson press, then Gini press. Both challenges bring shouts for foul for Roma, but yield the turnover.
      Sadio (also Pressing) quick transition pass to Bobby.
      Bobby dribbles forward. Mo running into area on right.
      Short pass to Mo.
      Bobby and Sade run deeper into area.
      Mo switches back to left foot, GOLAZO into upper left hand corner of net.
      (The strike gets all the attention and it was fantastic, but at least four other players were working hard to help create this goal.

      2. Roma attacking, send ball into our area.
      Virgil clears chipped pass with a volley that goes straight to Mo standing near center circle.
      Mo's first touch sends it short to Bobby, starting him toward opposition goal. Mo immediately turns and starts running forward as well.
      Four Roma players turn and begin running back to goal, one steps up to challenge Bobby.
      Bobby skins the challenge and continues toward goal. Mo switches gears and runs between the two trailing defenders. The other defender appears to be gaining ground on Bobby as he runs through the middle.
      Mo slightly alters his run, perfectly aiming for the gap between the two defenders.
      Bobby plays a perfectly weighted pass into the gap, for Mo to run onto.
      At full stride, Mo still applies a perfect touch and times his finish against the onrushing transfer non-target.

      3. Liverpool end, 25 yards out to the right.
      Lovren with the ball, plays ahead and to right to TAA.
      Trent's two main passing options are Milner rushing back toward him, and Salah, breaking from the center toward the right flank.
      Under pressure, Trent sends a ball behind the flank midfielder and to the right of the Roma back three, giving Mo acres of space to run onto it.
      Mo accelerates enough to be farther upfield than all three defenders. As he dribbles in from the right, nobo goes out to challenge.
      Allison stays at near post.
      Bobby and Sadio both run toward the far side of the penalty area. But Sadio then cuts sharply into space near the penalty spot.
      Mo zips grounded ball into Sadio's path.
      Still some work for Sadio to do (remembering that he's missed two good chances already), but both the final defender and keeper are protecting the middle of goal, and Sadio tucks across his body into far corner for 3-0.

      4. Livepool ball in own half,  near center circle.
      Virgil plays long pass to right side for TAA.
      Under pressure, Trent makes neat volley past defender into space down right for Mo.
      Mo collects with no pressure, turns and dribbles towards the elbow of the 18 where a defender waits.
      Gini, Bobby and Sadio begin runs  into area. Five Roma players are in or running back into area.
      Mo absolutely skins his defender, running toward by-line.
      Bobby picks up his run to back post. Sadio offers middle and Gini offers cutback.
      Mo threads pass between 2nd defender and Allison, who is guarding near post.
      Pass also elude third defender who is a step behind Bobby's run.
      Bobby doesn't miss.

      5. I don't see a highlight on what led to the corner. Maybe someone can help me.
      On the set piece, Milner sends a good enough cross in. Firmino and Virgil were both near the penalty spot.
      Thought someone should have been able to stop this from going in to be honest, but they were pretty shellshocked by then.

      Would love your thoughts on these. I'm mainly doing this because I don't want to let go of the awesome feeling of what I watched yesterday (the first 80 minutes :-) ).

      On the tactical end, I think it's notable that with their setup, our fullbacks weren't able to bomb forward as much as we would like, and yet we were still extremely potent in attack. Good times.



       
      « Last Edit: Apr 25, 2018 04:38:21 pm by Robby The Z »
      Scotia
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #790: Apr 25, 2018 04:19:08 pm
      Our goals vs. Roma:

      1. Roma in possession, their own end near the center circle.
      Henderson press, then Gini press. Both challenges bring shouts for foul for Roma, but yield the turnover.
      Sadio (also Pressing) quick transition pass to Bobby.
      Bobby dribbles forward. Mo running into area on right.
      Short pass to Mo.
      Bobby and Sade run deeper into area.
      Mo switches back to left foot, GOLAZO into upper left hand corner of net.
      (The strike gets all the attention and it was fantastic, but at least four other players were working hard to help create this goal.

      2. Roma attacking, send ball into our area.
      Virgil clears chipped pass with a volley that goes straight to Mo standing near center circle.
      Mo's first touch sends it short to Bobby, starting him toward opposition goal. Mo immediately turns and starts running forward as well.
      Four Roma players turn and begin running back to goal, one steps up to challenge Bobby.
      Bobby skins the challenge and continues toward goal. Mo switches gears and runs between the two trailing defenders. The other defender appears to be gaining ground on Bobby as he runs through the middle.
      Mo slightly alters his run, perfectly aiming for the gap between the two defenders.
      Bobby plays a perfectly weighted pass into the gap, for Mo to run onto.
      At full stride, Mo still applies a perfect touch and times his finish against the onrushing transfer non-target.

      3. Liverpool end, 25 yards out to the right.
      Lovren with the ball, plays ahead and to right to TAA.
      Trent's two main passing options are Milner rushing back toward him, and Salah, breaking from the center toward the right flank.
      Under pressure, Trent sends a ball behind the flank midfielder and to the right of the Roma back three, giving Mo acres of space to run onto it.
      Mo accelerates enough to be farther upfield than all three defenders. As he dribbles in from the right, nobo goes out to challenge.
      Allison stays at near post.
      Bobby and Sadio both run toward the far side of the penalty area. But Sadio then cuts sharply into space near the penalty spot.
      Mo zips grounded ball into Sadio's path.
      Still some work for Sadio to do (remembering that he's missed two good chances already), but both the final defender and keeper are protecting the middle of goal, and Sadio tucks across his body into far corner for 3-0.

      4. Livepool ball in own half,  near center circle.
      Virgil plays long pass to right side for TAA.
      Under pressure, Trent makes neat volley past defender into space down right for Mo.
      Mo collects with no pressure, turns and dribbles towards the elbow of the 18 where a defender waits.
      Gini, Bobby and Sadio begin runs  into area. Five Roma players are in or running back into area.
      Mo absolutely skins his defender, running toward by-line.
      Bobby picks up his run to back post. Sadio offers middle and Gini offers cutback.
      Mo threads pass between 2nd defender and Allison, who is guarding near post.
      Pass also elude third defender who is a step behind Bobby's run.
      Bobby doesn't miss.

      5. I don't see a highlight on what led to the corner. Maybe someone can help me.
      On the set piece, Milner sends a good enough cross in. Firmino and Virgil were both near the penalty spot.
      Thought someone should have been able to stop this from going in to be honest, but they were pretty shellshocked by then.

      Would love your thoughts on these. I'm mainly doing this because I don't want to let go of the awesome feeling of what I watched yesterday (the first 80 minutes :-) ).

      On the tactical end, I think it's notable that with their setup, our fullbacks weren't able to bomb forward as much as we would like, and yet we were still extremely potent in attack. Good times.



       

      2.
      The corner was basically their sub panicking and passing straight out.

      The cumulative effect of the pressing / pressure had fried all their brains......even the ones watching plus nobody wanted the ball in their midfield at that point.
      Scotia
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #791: Apr 25, 2018 04:40:17 pm
      Been thinking long and hard today about this game and I just don’t see how they can change things - they just don’t have the legs.

      Their press is based on a suffocating blanket type approach - not the swarming, waspish version we employ.

      They actually wanted us to go long - into their 3 CBs who they backed to win headers vs our front three. The only thing they can do differently is sit off........and we’ll just play through or round em instead because we’re under no pressure.

      Struggling to see how they restrict us.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #792: Apr 25, 2018 05:05:44 pm
      Been thinking long and hard today about this game and I just don’t see how they can change things - they just don’t have the legs.

      Their press is based on a suffocating blanket type approach - not the swarming, waspish version we employ.

      They actually wanted us to go long - into their 3 CBs who they backed to win headers vs our front three. The only thing they can do differently is sit off........and we’ll just play through or round em instead because we’re under no pressure.

      Struggling to see how they restrict us.

      Can’t understand what their manager was thinking playing a back 3, Mane and Salah absolutely love playing against a back 3.

      They obviously like to compress the play hence the high back line, that may work against an ageing Barca attack who have zero pace.

      Not overly impressed with their tactics, played right into our strengths.

      heimdall
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #793: Apr 25, 2018 05:40:26 pm
      So what are we all thinking for the return leg?
      I'd be tempted to go for a 3-5-2 with TAA and Robertson joining the midfield together with Bobby, Hendo and Milner and playing Salah and Mane up top on the counter.
      Oh and I'd have Vvd man mark Dzeko with Lovren and Klavan mopping up the rest.
      Vicks86
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #794: Apr 25, 2018 05:58:28 pm
      So what are we all thinking for the return leg?
      I'd be tempted to go for a 3-5-2 with TAA and Robertson joining the midfield together with Bobby, Hendo and Milner and playing Salah and Mane up top on the counter.
      Oh and I'd have Vvd man mark Dzeko with Lovren and Klavan mopping up the rest.

      Why fix if it aint broke?? 3 at the back would probably play into their hands as diFra would definitely start with a 4-3-3 at home. Under vs Klavan - not really for me. And we definitely cant afford to lose the midfield battle. I mean, Gini was fantastic last night, so why would he not start? My guess is it'll be 4-3-3 vs 4-3-3
      crouchinho
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #795: Apr 25, 2018 06:14:09 pm
      Same team again.

      The obvious regret is not only them scoring twice, but we should’ve had more. They were set up as ideal as we could’ve asked.

      Their fullbacks were pressing ours and left Juan Jesus marking Salah alone and Fazio marking Mané. And they had De Rossi sitting deep who was so legless against our speed. Their best and most combative midfielder in Nainngolan was too busy up field getting stifled by Hendo.

      If they’re to get back in this they have to play with the reckless abandon they had when they were 5-0 down. Good luck you bas**rds.
      luckofirish8
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #796: Apr 25, 2018 06:17:44 pm
      So what are we all thinking for the return leg?
      I'd be tempted to go for a 3-5-2 with TAA and Robertson joining the midfield together with Bobby, Hendo and Milner and playing Salah and Mane up top on the counter.
      Oh and I'd have Vvd man mark Dzeko with Lovren and Klavan mopping up the rest.

      Interesting idea given the injury issue we currently have with midfielders.

      Why fix if it aint broke?? 3 at the back would probably play into their hands as diFra would definitely start with a 4-3-3 at home. Under vs Klavan - not really for me. And we definitely cant afford to lose the midfield battle. I mean, Gini was fantastic last night, so why would he not start? My guess is it'll be 4-3-3 vs 4-3-3

      Tend to agree to continue to play to our strength though another injury in midfield will almost certainly force a change. 


      Vicks86
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #797: Apr 25, 2018 06:36:28 pm
      Interesting idea given the injury issue we currently have with midfielders.

      Using 3-4-3 vs Stoke might be an option though.

      Woodburn-Ings-Salah
      Moreno-Jones-Gini-Gomez
      Klavan-Virgil-Lovren
      Karius

      Give Mane, Bobby, Milner, Hendo and the full backs a breather, and may be rotate Gini after an hour.
      heimdall
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #798: Apr 25, 2018 08:00:37 pm
      Why fix if it aint broke?? 3 at the back would probably play into their hands as diFra would definitely start with a 4-3-3 at home. Under vs Klavan - not really for me. And we definitely cant afford to lose the midfield battle. I mean, Gini was fantastic last night, so why would he not start? My guess is it'll be 4-3-3 vs 4-3-3

      Against Barca they played 5 in midfield and won the midfield battle, that's my only reason behind the switch in formation, but if both teams play the same next week then we set up as we normally do.
      heimdall
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #799: Apr 25, 2018 08:05:53 pm
      Using 3-4-3 vs Stoke might be an option though.

      Woodburn-Ings-Salah
      Moreno-Jones-Gini-Gomez
      Klavan-Virgil-Lovren
      Karius

      Give Mane, Bobby, Milner, Hendo and the full backs a breather, and may be rotate Gini after an hour.

      Absolutely not, we have to win against Stoke, no f**king about with the team. We can't afford it after the balls up against West Brom. That's why that draw was so bloody annoying.

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