Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Madrid [Champions League] Sat 28th May @ 8:00 pm - Pre Match Topic
      Stade de France, Paris

      Today is the 28th of May and on this date LFC's match record is P4 W1 D3 L0

      Tactics geeks of the world unite...

      Read 110599 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      Scottbot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 8,684 posts | 1776 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #805: Feb 24, 2019 05:07:47 pm
      I thought Klopp had a poor game tactically today. Every sub was a real head scratcher. Studge barely gets 5 minutes these days yet he was straight off the bench when Firmino got injured. Unfortunately you can’t play Studge anywhere but through the middle so your kinda hamstrung with subs later in the game (plus he was awful once again) or changing up the shape once he’s on.

      I was happy enough with the first half, we didn’t create too much but we had lots of possession and control in midfield which is s good foundation to go on and create but even our possession just fizzled in the 2nd half. The next sub was also a strange one. Keita has been in the side the past 5 games and was showing some good form, I felt he would have given us back some control and might have broken their defensive lines with the way he can dribble but instead it was Shakiri, another player who has barely had a look in and has been out of touch for a month or so. And then last of all Origi for a misfiring Salah, another sub that did nothing for our ability to retain the ball and another out of form player with barely any minutes under his belt. Just weird all around.

      City simply stays in possession, probe for openings, recycle and then go again. We’re able to play in the same way and have done countless times and I thought that should have been the approach in that 2nd half today. Instead we tossed in too many long balls, too many floated crosses and gave the ball away too cheaply. Several posters have talked about a lack of rythym and was really evident. These boot camps abroad will probably help long term in terms of fitness but it doesn’t appear to be worth it given the way we have played after each break.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 17,332 posts | 3708 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #806: Feb 24, 2019 05:13:44 pm
      That midfield 3 combination played exactly how you expect it to play.
      Physical and full of running, impossible to play or pass through.

      But going forward completely un -creative and devoid of much attacking instinct and wouldn’t know how to create a chance if they were still playing.

      A uncreative midfield is nothing new we have had one for the last 10 years.
      Why sign someone like Keita if he is going to sit in the bench?
      Scottbot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 8,684 posts | 1776 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #807: Feb 24, 2019 05:28:57 pm
      That midfield 3 combination played exactly how you expect it to play.
      Physical and full of running, impossible to play or pass through.

      But going forward completely un -creative and devoid of much attacking instinct and wouldn’t know how to create a chance if they were still playing.

      A uncreative midfield is nothing new we have had one for the last 10 years.
      Why sign someone like Keita if he is going to sit in the bench?

      That midfield got the ball into the front three in and around the box enough times today (particularly in the first half) only for Salah, Mane or Studge to fluff their lines. I was happy enough with the three lads who started, I just didn’t understand why Zkeita wasn’t the first option off the bench when it needed changing up.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 17,332 posts | 3708 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #808: Feb 24, 2019 05:45:28 pm
      That midfield got the ball into the front three in and around the box enough times today (particularly in the first half) only for Salah, Mane or Studge to fluff their lines. I was happy enough with the three lads who started, I just didn’t understand why Zkeita wasn’t the first option off the bench when it needed changing up.

      They got the ball up there with them back to goal, that’s hardly breaking the lines or finding someone in space making a run.
      Scottbot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 8,684 posts | 1776 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #809: Feb 24, 2019 05:58:27 pm
      They got the ball up there with them back to goal, that’s hardly breaking the lines or finding someone in space making a run.

      Mane and Salah both had the ball faced up in their area and we also got to the by line within the penalty area on a couple of occasions but final ball throughout the first half was poor. 2nd half I can’t recall us even getting into those positions. Keita on 55-60 mins was the sub I expected to see.
      PurpleMonkey
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,000 posts | 1991 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #810: Feb 24, 2019 06:10:06 pm
      Mane and Salah both had the ball faced up in their area and we also got to the by line within the penalty area on a couple of occasions but final ball throughout the first half was poor. 2nd half I can’t recall us even getting into those positions. Keita on 55-60 mins was the sub I expected to see.

      First half wasn't that bad. Hendo and Wijnaldum were getting into decent areas, but as you say, the final ball wasn't there. As for second half, correct me if i am wrong, but it was a shift in midfield where Hendo and Fab were more sitting and Wijnaldum in the half spaces which seemed to have swung the pendulum and made us less attack minded. And as HScRed1 eluded to, it felt as if we just pumped hopeless long balls into our forwards.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 17,332 posts | 3708 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #811: Mar 04, 2019 11:06:43 am
      The last time a LFC midfielder scored a winning goal........May 2017 Emre with the overhead v Watford
       :roll:

      We are way to reliant on the front 3.

      Double up on them and cut out the supply from full backs which decent teams can do quite easily the we get to a situation we have seen since post Christmas.

      Doesn’t help that Klopp keeps going for a flat 3 in midfield.
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 17,332 posts | 3708 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #812: Aug 15, 2019 09:00:39 am
      From pre season and the last 2 games something not quite right with the way we are set up.

      We are far too easily bypassed through the middle of the pitch. Hendo far right and Milner far left didn’t help last night. But as a team we are not pressing effectively fo what ever reason. Last night the Chelsea midfield had ages to pick out a runner.

      Hopefully it’s just the effects of a heavy pre season as the number of times our players were dribbled past last night was pretty painful to watch.

      A creative midfielder should have been top priority but that boat has sailed.

      Work required on the training pitch to tweak what is obviously wrong.
      brezipool
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 6,543 posts | 841 
      • All Good and That Stuff :-)
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #813: Aug 15, 2019 10:43:56 am
      Not worried about the way we played 1st half, the players are all not at the same fitness levels, Klopp used squad, used the game to give the ox a proper 45mins.

      started Millie & Hendo together, very rare for that too happen, probably wont see that very much at all this season.

      Probably going to be sketchy performances for another month I reckon, luckily not too many games yet, just league weekly league games.
      brezipool
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 6,543 posts | 841 
      • All Good and That Stuff :-)
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #814: Aug 15, 2019 10:44:54 am
      The last time a LFC midfielder scored a winning goal........May 2017 Emre with the overhead v Watford
       :roll:

      We are way to reliant on the front 3.

      Double up on them and cut out the supply from full backs which decent teams can do quite easily the we get to a situation we have seen since post Christmas.

      Doesn’t help that Klopp keeps going for a flat 3 in midfield.

      Forgetting Origi. and its easier said than done stopping our front 3. ;-)

      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,818 posts | 2724 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #815: Aug 15, 2019 11:04:28 am
      Not worried about the way we played 1st half, the players are all not at the same fitness levels, Klopp used squad, used the game to give the ox a proper 45mins.

      started Millie & Hendo together, very rare for that too happen, probably wont see that very much at all this season.

      Probably going to be sketchy performances for another month I reckon, luckily not too many games yet, just league weekly league games.

      Are you seriously not worried that we made Chelsea, a team that just got beat 4-0 by Manure, look like Citeh with them passing the ball through our team with ease and dribbling and shooting at goal. We were only saved by some close off side calls, if it wasn't for that it could have been a much bigger deficit at half time.
      I agree with the previous poster that there is something wrong with the team at the moment, the balance is a bit wrong between defence and attack and I think its mostly down to the midfield not quite clicking yet.

      I am 100% confident that Klopp and his team can sort it out but I am a bit concerned about the match on Saturday as the players looked knackered at the end of that match yesterday. I would consider rotating the team quite heavily, perhaps start with Origi and Brewster plus Bobby in attack and sub in Mo and Sadio if needed. In defence I'd maybe start Lovren if one of the CB's need a rest and consider playing one of the young full backs along with Trent as Robbo also looked very tired at the end. In midfield I'd shuffle the pack a bit and start Shaq and Lallana together with either Hendo or Fabinho if one of them is fit, if neither one is then not quite sure who else could play there, perhaps Millner.
      brezipool
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 6,543 posts | 841 
      • All Good and That Stuff :-)
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #816: Aug 15, 2019 11:09:34 am
      Are you seriously not worried that we made Chelsea, a team that just got beat 4-0 by Manure, look like Citeh with them passing the ball through our team with ease and dribbling and shooting at goal. We were only saved by some close off side calls, if it wasn't for that it could have been a much bigger deficit at half time.
      I agree with the previous poster that there is something wrong with the team at the moment, the balance is a bit wrong between defence and attack and I think its mostly down to the midfield not quite clicking yet.

      I am 100% confident that Klopp and his team can sort it out but I am a bit concerned about the match on Saturday as the players looked knackered at the end of that match yesterday. I would consider rotating the team quite heavily, perhaps start with Origi and Brewster plus Bobby in attack and sub in Mo and Sadio if needed. In defence I'd maybe start Lovren if one of the CB's need a rest and consider playing one of the young full backs along with Trent as Robbo also looked very tired at the end. In midfield I'd shuffle the pack a bit and start Shaq and Lallana together with either Hendo or Fabinho if one of them is fit, if neither one is then not quite sure who else could play there, perhaps Millner.

      I give credit to chelsea tbh.

      They played very well, and by all accounts were good v manu even though they lost 4 zip. Kante was brilliant btw.

      Milner and hendo together is not great we know this, but klopp was doing best to use squad and give some guys minutes, 1 eye on southampton, the ET defo put a spanner in the works tho.
      skamp
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 833 posts | 306 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #817: Aug 15, 2019 11:27:35 am
      For whatever reason, we look much more vulnerable defensively than we did at the start of last season.  We've conceded 4 goals (including Community Shield & Super Cup) , but all 3 opponents to date have had a hat-ful of chances.

      This does appear to stem from our midfield being too easily bypassed.  Not sure if it's a fitness, system or personnel issue, but we need to iron it out soon or the results will start going against us.

      Confident we can sort it out, though Southampton on Sat looks a lot trickier after that 120+mins.
      Robby The Z
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 8,243 posts | 2395 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #818: Aug 15, 2019 03:19:03 pm
      For whatever reason, we look much more vulnerable defensively than we did at the start of last season.  We've conceded 4 goals (including Community Shield & Super Cup) , but all 3 opponents to date have had a hat-ful of chances.

      This does appear to stem from our midfield being too easily bypassed.  Not sure if it's a fitness, system or personnel issue, but we need to iron it out soon or the results will start going against us.

      Confident we can sort it out, though Southampton on Sat looks a lot trickier after that 120+mins.

      To me, the biggest difference appears to be the impact our fullbacks are having, as in not nearly as much . That may be down to fitness bit they are not nearly as prominent so far. I expect them.to grow quickly back to their influence level of last season.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,818 posts | 2724 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #819: Aug 15, 2019 03:24:55 pm
      I give credit to chelsea tbh.

      They played very well, and by all accounts were good v manu even though they lost 4 zip. Kante was brilliant btw.

      Milner and hendo together is not great we know this, but klopp was doing best to use squad and give some guys minutes, 1 eye on southampton, the ET defo put a spanner in the works tho.

      How come he didn't want to give Shaq or Lallana any minutes, are they not as huggable?
      Tayls
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 5,337 posts | 493 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #820: Aug 15, 2019 03:25:01 pm
      To me it looks like we're off the pace a bit. In possession, particularly build up from deep, we don't look assured. We kept giving the ball away in dangerous positions last night, and that can be down to the players in front of the ball as much as it is the passer himself.

      We're also not getting to enough second balls. It happened frequently against Norwich and again last night. Too often we win the first ball and then there's no one around to challenge for or pick up the second. Feel like this is the midfields job more often than not.

      Don't agree much with the general media sentiment we're playing an especially high line. We've done that for ages, and have relied on a good offside trap along with quick defenders to bail us out.

      Overall think we need to improve our build up play, as it's easy to get in behind us if we give the ball away in the first/second third, and we also need to look at why we aren't winning enough second balls in midfield.

      On the plus side there's all these "problems" and yet we have our first 3 points and first trophy of the season already!
      HScRed1
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 17,332 posts | 3708 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #821: Aug 15, 2019 03:40:00 pm
      To me it looks like we're off the pace a bit. In possession, particularly build up from deep, we don't look assured. We kept giving the ball away in dangerous positions last night, and that can be down to the players in front of the ball as much as it is the passer himself.

      We're also not getting to enough second balls. It happened frequently against Norwich and again last night. Too often we win the first ball and then there's no one around to challenge for or pick up the second. Feel like this is the midfields job more often than not.

      Don't agree much with the general media sentiment we're playing an especially high line. We've done that for ages, and have relied on a good offside trap along with quick defenders to bail us out.

      Overall think we need to improve our build up play, as it's easy to get in behind us if we give the ball away in the first/second third, and we also need to look at why we aren't winning enough second balls in midfield.

      On the plus side there's all these "problems" and yet we have our first 3 points and first trophy of the season already!

      Your first paragraph is interesting in that it’s something I have noticed even during pre season,  when the back 4 are in possession we seem to vacate the central midfield area, yesterday Hendo and Milner were almost hugging the side lines leaving Fab as the only option.

      No surprise we were hoofing the ball long and with Matip trying to play out of the Chelsea press we were our own worst enemies.

      Strange set up indeed.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 32,321 posts | 2980 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #822: Aug 15, 2019 05:02:22 pm
      Your first paragraph is interesting in that it’s something I have noticed even during pre season,  when the back 4 are in possession we seem to vacate the central midfield area, yesterday Hendo and Milner were almost hugging the side lines leaving Fab as the only option.

      No surprise we were hoofing the ball long and with Matip trying to play out of the Chelsea press we were our own worst enemies.

      Strange set up indeed.

      Almost like a 4-4-2 formation until Firmino came on last night.
      Didn't work at all.
      Scottbot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 8,684 posts | 1776 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #823: Oct 06, 2019 07:12:27 am
      Interesting take on Klopp's decision to mix up his front 3 starting positions fir yesterday's game.

      https://www.liverpool.com/schedule/klopp-liverpool-leicester-salah-mane-17038887

      Robby The Z
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 8,243 posts | 2395 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #824: Oct 18, 2019 05:34:15 pm
      I don't want to paste the whole thing here because The Athletic is a paid service and it's very good and I want it to continue on (which it won't if everybody steals it or gives it away). But this is from a terrific article about Klopp's emphasis on fullbacks as creators. Very long and detailed, talking with players who were with us when he first came on board, etc. Gets into how he changed the role for midfielders as well.

      Opportunities were given to youth teamers with high hopes. It became clear to one of them that Klopp had very uncommon expectations relating to skill-sets and positions. “I grew up thinking you had to be fast and aggressive to play at the top level as a full-back. Klopp was looking for something different, though…”

      Klopp would speak often about the full-back being “the spare man” or the “quarterback”. Football’s playmakers are usually in midfield but the shape of Klopp’s team meant more time was offered to the full-back than any midfielder, who was instead expected to cover for the more creative players elsewhere on the pitch. This would lead to major disappointment among the queue of exciting, ball-playing midfielders in Liverpool’s academy hoping for their opportunities at first team level.


      You can get subscriptions to it at a major discount.
      « Last Edit: Oct 18, 2019 05:39:03 pm by Robby The Z »
      RC9
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 8,952 posts | 503 
      • Formerly known as Vtorres, Vsuarez, and Vsterling.
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #825: Oct 24, 2019 11:43:01 am
      Not sure where to put this, but it seems like it's a viable place.

      As much as we all want to see Ox and Keita in the midfield, is anyone else a bit worried about how exposed it leaves us defensively. I feel like the job Gini does goes under the radar and for us to have a thriving midfield we actually need him in it.

      With that in mind, who is the better player to have starting in the more attacking role Keita or Ox? I love Keita and want to see him excelling in our team but for me Ox has shown more going forward and for that reason I would have the below midfield moving forward;

      Fabinho     

      Gini

      Ox

      What does everyone else think?
      fields of anny rd
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,663 posts | 1960 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #826: Oct 24, 2019 12:20:34 pm
      Not sure where to put this, but it seems like it's a viable place.

      As much as we all want to see Ox and Keita in the midfield, is anyone else a bit worried about how exposed it leaves us defensively. I feel like the job Gini does goes under the radar and for us to have a thriving midfield we actually need him in it.

      With that in mind, who is the better player to have starting in the more attacking role Keita or Ox? I love Keita and want to see him excelling in our team but for me Ox has shown more going forward and for that reason I would have the below midfield moving forward;

      Fabinho     

      Gini

      Ox

      What does everyone else think?

      Yeah I dont think we can play both from that start in many premier league games.

      I think Klopp may choose one of them in home games or games where he wants us to impose ourselves on the opposition, but for CL later rounds and big league games I think it will in the main be the usual industrial 3 and any injury or rest to those with Milner coming in.

      Theres room for them both in the season ahead, enough games they can start and enough they can feature off the bench, but in the main I think Klopp will go for industry over added goals, to protect Fab and the back 4.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #827: Oct 24, 2019 12:52:28 pm
      Not sure where to put this, but it seems like it's a viable place.

      As much as we all want to see Ox and Keita in the midfield, is anyone else a bit worried about how exposed it leaves us defensively. I feel like the job Gini does goes under the radar and for us to have a thriving midfield we actually need him in it.

      With that in mind, who is the better player to have starting in the more attacking role Keita or Ox? I love Keita and want to see him excelling in our team but for me Ox has shown more going forward and for that reason I would have the below midfield moving forward;

      Fabinho     

      Gini

      Ox

      What does everyone else think?

      It depends who we're playing.

      Fabi, Gini, Henderson is defensively solid, and then later on in games, you can open it up by bringing in ox for one of Gini or Henderson.
      Keita is decent defensively, and at only 24 he can become a rounded mf,and so rotate with the other less attackng MF.

      It was noticeable last night for their goal, that the attack came through the space Henderson would normally be defending.
      Gomez is getting back, Fabinho goes to the box, and just in front of Lovren there is a space where you would normally see Henderson defending (behind Gomez but further towards the box) that was completely open.

      Quick Reply