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      Tactics geeks of the world unite...

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      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #851: Sep 08, 2022 09:11:15 am
      Perhaps time to go back to a more counter attacking style, sit a wee bit deeper for a few games to get some clean sheets & confidence back.
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #852: Sep 08, 2022 09:15:25 am
      You could see the difference in team shape and structure as soon as Thiago and to a lesser extent Arthur in midfield.
      Although not sure what you can do with the lack of desire of passion, defenders just walking around last night beyond them to track or chase attackers!
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #853: Sep 08, 2022 04:40:33 pm

      This is the definition of a dysfunctional midfield with a 37 year old who has the discipline of a toddler in that position and a youngster being asked to play in a role he has no experience.
      Yet people expect Fabinho to play the superman role!!
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #854: Sep 08, 2022 06:18:27 pm
      This defensive vulnerability is nothing new.

      The Klopp system calls for both right and left backs to push past their own midfielders and act as the offensive catalysts. Couple that with Klopp's high-line approach and of course counterattacks have had ample space to thrust forward in numbers and truthfully the team has been fortunate in the past that the very frequent odd man rush counterattacks haven't resulted in more opposition goals. Allison has been bailing out these weekly defensive breakdowns for years.
      As long as the Klopp system..... Offensive minded RB + LB plus the ever-present high line continues, LFC will continue to be vulnerable on the back end.

      The offensive impotency on display now has also been on ongoing issue despite the team's accomplishments last season.
      The LFC offense was sputtering in the final months of the '21-'22 campaign with opponents scoring first in the final 8 games I believe. And how many recent games has LFC not even got a single shot on net in the 1st half.
      Salah was anemic last spring and defenses have effectively bottled him up once again. His patented cut back across the box and launch with his left foot is all but neutered. Those that clung to the narrative "Mo's contract status muddled his brain" last spring, I ask, what is his excuse year..."Mo's massive contract has put too much pressure on him"
      Oh PLEEEEASE.....
      The Klopp System is very much on display on the offensive side as well.
      POSSESSION is the priority and too often LFC counter attacks fizzle out and the team is all too comfortable sending the ball backwards so the back line can play tippy tap....creating the 70-30 possession imbalance that looks so impressive on the stat sheet until you see how ineffective the team is at getting shots on net, especially in the 1st half.
      Then there's the offenses over-reliance on the long diagonal entry passes into the box by TAA and AR.
      In the NFL, when a wide receiver is blanketed by a defender and the quarterback heaves up a pass that both receiver and defender can get their hands on, it's called a 50/50 ball. Of late, when TAA is launching 30 meter prayers into the box with 7,8, even 9 defenders enveloping the 2 or 3 LFC forwards, well, the results have been abysmal....2% balls....if that.
      The Klopp system does not emphasis mid field ambition nor does it have any inclination to find cutters. Of course allowing defenses ample time to amass in their own box all but eliminates the "cutting" attack.
      Then there's a speed issue. Mo is quick, but Mo is not fast despite the narratives. Harvey is also quick but Harvey has no speed.
      Diaz has plenty of speed but his teammates are far too casual crashing the net.
      Nunez certainly has the speed but his ball handling is borderline horrendous.
      Fabinho has zero forward foot ambition
      Milner is a Hack a Mole, nothing more.
      Watching the other PL teams' this season, it's pretty clear many teams have a speed advantage that can create such effective counter attacks....and LFC doesn't compare

      My conclusion: The opposition has evolved while Klopp has remained entrenched in his system....and the Klopp system is more vulnerable than ever to counterattacks which I guess is why Klopp is so compelled to maintain the possession advantage, despite the lack of goal scoring output his possession game actually creates.
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #855: Sep 10, 2022 10:50:20 am
      Purely from watching us this season and even in the past I have felt sometimes our build-up play is too slow and side to side. We are at our best when countering or when a wing back gets high up the field stretching the opposition's defence. However, these days it seems like we just play it side to side and there aren't enough runs from midfield or our attackers for anything to happen once our wing backs have the ball wide.

      While I do not think our issues are because of Mane leaving when he was through the middle he seemed to have been able to take at least two defenders with him which created a lot of space for Salah and Diaz to run IN-BEHIND but now it seems that our wide players are just staying wide and not playing like inverted wingers. Furthermore, Mane was a lot more direct in his running than Diaz so he would make things happen a lot more, Diaz seems to be adding that to his game now which is good but still a bit of a way to go before matching what Mane gave us.

      I think this issue boils down to Nunez and trying to tweak our play to accommodate to his strengths, but if we are going to do this he needs to start week in and week out and we have to persevere with that style of play, but then we run the risk of it being a transitional type season with our style of play changing.
      Personally, I want to see Diaz down the left, Jota down the right and Salah through the middle, I think this will get us making the behind runs we need again, Salah has got in his own head down that right-wing and we need him getting in behind CB's again, his pace alone will frighten CB's into being pulled out of position which will create the space Jota and Diaz need.

      Our defence needs to go back to basics, if we continue to use the high line we cannot have defenders who do not track back, so Trent needs to either buck up his ideas or sit on the bench and the same for Robbo at the minute. I would say our best bet defensively is Tsmikas, VVD, Matip, Gomez. When Konate is back fit depending on the form of VVD I wouldn't be far away from giving him a run, as VVD I am sorry to say is not himself this season, he seems sluggish and just not at the races.

      Fabinho seems incapable of protecting the high line by himself so perhaps we need Fab and Thiago sitting with a more creative presence in Harvey or Carvalho higher up the pitch, but gone are the days where we can rely on Fab sitting by himself, maybe it's just this season or he needs a break but it doesn't seem he has it in him at the moment.

      Nunez should be used when we need a change in style during a game, if he comes on we go to plan B and try something different, I am not sure changing our style of play week in week out at the start of games is a good idea, he is at the club for the long run, we do not need to sacrifice this season to try make our play suit him.
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #856: Sep 14, 2022 01:54:25 pm
      The right hand side of the team just seems a chaotic mess at the moment, maybe somebody with more insight than me can explain.

      We have Salah stuck out wide and Trent so far in midfield then Harvey just drifting out wide in no man’s land.
      Harvey is playing with his instincts of a wide player leaving a huge hole in midfield plus he doesn’t have much defensive instinct so leaves us so vulnerable to the counter.

      Not sure if it’s a case of the injuries and no one available or Harvey is being groomed into the role of a RCM but it sure isn’t working at the moment.
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #857: Sep 14, 2022 02:09:33 pm
      Front three seem to work a lot better last night.

      Diaz, Jota and Salah are the best option for me if we keep playing this system.

      Gives a Nunez conundrum but we needs must fir a while.

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