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      Tactics geeks of the world unite...

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      HScRed1
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #874: Oct 04, 2022 03:40:53 pm
      Our football and tactics just look weird at the moment.

      Still think we're stuck between playing the same system with players that don't quite fit.

      Add that Nunez could very well be the first player we've bought in a long time that we don't seem to have thought through fully how he integrates into the team.

      It's very worrying they Jürgen has said he doesn't have time to change tactics as I think we simply have to and it might be small changes but changes are needed none the less.

      I think our tactics have been slowly changing for more than a season now.
      Even last year we only ever really pressed against the Top teams.

      I think Jürgen and his team realised to break down the bus Parker’s we needed a different approach however as you say it all looks a bit confused with players pressing individually but that is easy to bypass and leaves us open.

      The change has also heralded this strange hybrid role for Trent which he himself doesn’t really know what is required of him.

      Obviously if the owners were a bit more ambitious as even Jürgen has admitted we would have had more quality options for when players are out of form.

      But yeah disappointing the boss seems wedded to the 433 even when it’s clear it’s not really working with the current personnel.

      srslfc
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #875: Oct 04, 2022 04:02:02 pm
      I think our tactics have been slowly changing for more than a season now.
      Even last year we only ever really pressed against the Top teams.

      I think Jürgen and his team realised to break down the bus Parker’s we needed a different approach however as you say it all looks a bit confused with players pressing individually but that is easy to bypass and leaves us open.

      The change has also heralded this strange hybrid role for Trent which he himself doesn’t really know what is required of him.

      Obviously if the owners were a bit more ambitious as even Jürgen has admitted we would have had more quality options for when players are out of form.

      But yeah disappointing the boss seems wedded to the 433 even when it’s clear it’s not really working with the current personnel.



      Agree there has been gradually differences but still within that 4 3 3 that we seem wedded to.

      If Elliott is seen as the future I'd play him more in a three and use a double pivot 2 in midfield.

      Harvey is still more of a forward than a midfield player for me and to get the best out of him I think we need to push him a bit further on
      sore monad
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #876: Oct 04, 2022 06:03:46 pm
      If we keep struggling, then trying a 4-4-2 would make a lot of sense to me. Nunez and Mo up front as a potentially high scoring big man/wee man combo. With Trent on the right side of midfield whipping balls in and Diaz on the left taking people on. I know the thinking is that 4-4-2 leaves you overrun in centre midfield, but I think you can stop that with your wide guys tucking in when not in possession.

      It would have a good chance of solving the Trent problem, plus it would probably suit Nunez as well - having plenty of crosses coming in, and having a strike partner.

      I know Jürgen will be reluctant to change, and I can understand given his system is so tried and tested with a 4-3-3, but if we keep playing like we have been he will have to think about trying new things sooner or later.
      PastorGeek
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #877: Oct 04, 2022 07:00:45 pm
      If we keep struggling, then trying a 4-4-2 would make a lot of sense to me. Nunez and Mo up front as a potentially high scoring big man/wee man combo. With Trent on the right side of midfield whipping balls in and Diaz on the left taking people on. I know the thinking is that 4-4-2 leaves you overrun in centre midfield, but I think you can stop that with your wide guys tucking in when not in possession.

      It would have a good chance of solving the Trent problem, plus it would probably suit Nunez as well - having plenty of crosses coming in, and having a strike partner.

      I know Jürgen will be reluctant to change, and I can understand given his system is so tried and tested with a 4-3-3, but if we keep playing like we have been he will have to think about trying new things sooner or later.

      i feel like 3-4-3 probably makes more sense, but thats just me
      waltonl4
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #878: Oct 04, 2022 07:07:21 pm
      Says some tit n a retro Fiorentina shirt.

      Can't wait until Trent is making cu*ts like him and shithouses like supposed fans look as f**king stupid as they are.

      who f***in says stuff like that just before a game wtf is wrong with people. Trent is not the problem he is part of the solution
      HScRed1
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #879: Oct 04, 2022 10:38:02 pm
      Will Jürgen stick with the 4231 but basically a 424 when the had the ball at the back allowing 4 forwards to press high up the pitch.

      Plus it allows Hendo, Fab and Thiago to rotate the two holding positions and meaning Elliot and Carvallo don’t have to play as a No8, something clearly not their strength.

      Trent gets more protection allowing not having to play the inverted full back role.

      More pluses than negatives I think.

      PastorGeek
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #880: Oct 05, 2022 02:43:55 am
      Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #881: Oct 05, 2022 08:06:06 am

      Interesting to see how this will work against the PL teams now. Just amazing it took that many games and lost points to make this simple change  😂

      However I think Trent is now in a phase of his career where he can evolve his game from attacking WB to more like a play maker type of player and use is passing abilities even more
      RC9
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #882: Oct 05, 2022 10:04:25 am
      Glad to see that we changed our tactics last night with two holding midfielders.

      I do think Thiago and Henderson could be the way forward at the minute with Fab out of form.

      I would play the same team against Arsenal with Bobby in for Darwin.
      brezipool
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #883: Oct 05, 2022 10:30:16 am
      Defo like to see us keep this formation, we need the 2 sitting MF.
      RC9
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #884: Oct 05, 2022 11:53:03 am
      HarryJules12
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #885: Oct 05, 2022 03:00:22 pm
      Hope Henderson is okay after last night. Thought he was excellent in helping us keep formational and tactical discipline and would be a shame to lose him for a short period of time as we begin our meteoric rise back to the top of the table.
      sore monad
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #886: Oct 05, 2022 10:46:22 pm
      Good to see Jürgen showing a bit of flexibilty and going with a different formation. The 2 CMs is what I was talking about before the game about how you needn't get overrun with one CM less. I was thinking of 4-4-2, but the same principle applies with a 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4. If your extra striker or wide man is more mobile than the CM they replace, then it can actually help your pressing rather than reduce it.
      I know people are saying Rangers are a poor team, but we made them look worse with some real energy in our pressing, especially in the first half.

      All our issues are not resolved though. Those couple of moments of defensive complacency in the last 10 minutes pissed me off a bit. If they scored one of those good chances, we would have been hanging on and probably panicking again, in a game we had completely bossed. We've actually been having these little lax spells for over a year. Think the fact we mostly got away with it last year has really bedded it in. We won't win the league or the CL this year of we don't get rid of it. Also, worth pointing out that that softness came in after Hendo (who was probably MOTM) came off (and we went to something more like the usual 4-3-3 it looked like).

      I would go with a 2 man central midfield again against Arsenal. Like I said before, I would actually be tempted by a 4-4-2 with Trent wide right of midfield. But the 4-2-4, with an extra forward, would also be good, as long as Hendo is the right CM.
      brezipool
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #887: Oct 06, 2022 09:02:07 am
      I see some pundits saying it was actually a 4-4-2 we played the other night.

      Perhaps when defending it was 4-4-2, but looked like 4-2-3-1 too most.
      srslfc
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #888: Oct 06, 2022 06:28:01 pm
      I see some pundits saying it was actually a 4-4-2 we played the other night.

      Perhaps when defending it was 4-4-2, but looked like 4-2-3-1 too most.

      Yea definitely looked 4 2 3 1 to me.

      Jota mainly played behind Nunez
      chats
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #889: Oct 06, 2022 09:24:13 pm
      I see some pundits saying it was actually a 4-4-2 we played the other night.

      Perhaps when defending it was 4-4-2, but looked like 4-2-3-1 too most.

      Klopp himself said it was a 4-4-2 didn't he?
      brezipool
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #890: Oct 07, 2022 09:05:51 am
      Klopp himself said it was a 4-4-2 didn't he?

      If he did? I missed that.
      brezipool
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #891: Oct 07, 2022 09:06:13 am
      LFCTV were calling it a 4-2-3-1
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #892: Oct 07, 2022 10:19:35 am
      Does this 4-4-2 qualify as reinvention then or was this just a one off or to be used in home games. I very much doubt he will play 4 out and out attackers V Arsenal.

      Could obviously rotate the midfield enginroom with Fabinho/Hendo/Thiago. If Klopp is experimenting with the line up and being a bit more flexible I'd like to see a back 3 with Trent & Robbo/Koastas as wing backs. This gives more protection from the ball over the top when Trent is attacking. Plus more protection from the through ball when we get high,

                         Ali
                Joe   Matip  VVD
      Trent                          Robbo
               Fabinho   Thiago
       Mo          Nunez       Diaz

      Gives much more cover on both sides and through the centre. I know in the past Klopp hasn't used this plan but it frees up Trent a lot more.
      brezipool
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #893: Oct 07, 2022 10:28:35 am
      Does this 4-4-2 qualify as reinvention then or was this just a one off or to be used in home games. I very much doubt he will play 4 out and out attackers V Arsenal.

      Could obviously rotate the midfield enginroom with Fabinho/Hendo/Thiago. If Klopp is experimenting with the line up and being a bit more flexible I'd like to see a back 3 with Trent & Robbo/Koastas as wing backs. This gives more protection from the ball over the top when Trent is attacking. Plus more protection from the through ball when we get high,

                         Ali
                Joe   Matip  VVD
      Trent                          Robbo
               Fabinho   Thiago
       Mo          Nunez       Diaz

      Gives much more cover on both sides and through the centre. I know in the past Klopp hasn't used this plan but it frees up Trent a lot more.

      I like 3 at the back, and can see the benefits, but dont think klopp will go with that radical a change this weekend.

      But hey you never know.

      Harrisimo
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #894: Oct 07, 2022 10:37:11 am
      I like 3 at the back, and can see the benefits, but dont think klopp will go with that radical a change this weekend.

      But hey you never know.

      Probably won't and we need to see a solid defensive display from Trent. We know he's great on the front foot but the argument from others is that is negated by his alleged poor defensive abilities. As wing back he gets more freedom with a bit more help on the defensive side.
      brezipool
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #895: Oct 07, 2022 10:45:11 am
      Klopp on formation change

      Quote
      For us it's more important we become unpredictable again so we need different systems for that as well. 442...we can name different systems. We have to choose which one is the best for us against next opponent. We have to be more unpredictable.

      So mixing it up game to game perhaps now.
      billythered
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #896: Oct 07, 2022 06:28:35 pm
      Klopp on formation change

      So mixing it up game to game perhaps now.





      Yep, this is the ‘Tweak’ so to speak, or part thereof, using both systems dependant on the opposition and what they do during the 95, it’s early days yet and will need fine tuning at the AxA , V Rangers we seen how at times we had players in each other’s way, Nunez & Jota, Mo & Nunez, Diaz & Nunez , it’s no coincidence Nunez was involved in some, and that tells me his positioning needs improvement in the 4-2-3-1, we’ll see it again V Arse I’m sure,

      As Jürgen alluded to, we need to reinvent ourselves, teams have found a way thru us so we need to shift the goalposts (pun intended 😁) time will tell if the ‘tweak’ is sustainable but I’m excited about it, for a first outing V Rangers we played well and we seem to have got some cohesion back,  and the way we chased the ball was very impressive, of course Arse will prove a much sterner test than Rangers but I’m more confident with this system rather than sticking with one that for me has run its course.




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