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      Tactics geeks of the world unite...

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      Harrisimo
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #943: Apr 19, 2023 05:28:08 pm
      Tend to agree and it's why I reopened the discussion in here.

      The only way he starts in midfield is if we buy a new RB and Jürgen totally changed how he sets up there and Trent plays like De Bruyne does.

      Factored that in as well.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #944: Apr 19, 2023 05:33:48 pm
      I more or less already factored in playing 433 against harder teams. The decision will be how to get the best out of Trent.

      I think he should be an attacking midfield. The inverted full back in a sense gives the boss options but it is risky and you can't build a solid game plan to win the league or get top 4 with such a risky game plan. Not with this squad anyway.

      We don’t play with “attacking mids” it’s not the way his midfield works


      If we bring in attacking mids then you buy someone who established- like Maddison for example

      The three the midfield are the workers , they cover and the creativity at times is from passes through the lines to overlapping fullbacks like TAA
      PastorGeek
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #945: Apr 19, 2023 06:57:49 pm
      because Henderson and Fab are not going to cover those holes.


      im not denying that we do need another CM (we never replaced Gini) we 100% need to buy one, but could this also not be done with say, training and practice for example?
      HScRed1
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #946: Apr 19, 2023 08:29:28 pm
      im not denying that we do need another CM (we never replaced Gini) we 100% need to buy one, but could this also not be done with say, training and practice for example?

      How is that going to grow them younger legs? 😁
      billythered
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #947: Apr 19, 2023 08:34:33 pm
      After Trent's performance the other night it does appear we are looking at where he plays especially when we have the ball. I'm not totally convinced it's been as thought through as you would hope, more a copycat from Pep that temporarily solves the issues in CM.

      If it is how the coaching team and Jürgen see the way forward then we need to recruit accordingly and could be why MacAllister has become a real target as he could easily play they Henderson role the other night as he had the legs for it.

      The calls to move Trent into the double pivot role will only intensify and I wouldn't be against that in principle but to do that were totally changing the make up of this side from back to front.

      We'd need to buy looking at a new RB at the very least but is also poses mutiple questions further forward. For arguement sake if we lined up like this:

      RB    Konate    Virgil    Robertson

      Trent     Fabinho

      Do we then see Gakpo as the 10 with Salah, Diaz wide with Nunez as the 9? This actually does work but then leaves us having to cover four positions with our starting attackers and too many CM not playing, as we will definitely buy at least one of those.

      It's more likely that we'll keep Trent at RB and refine the inverted fill back role he's been playing but the CM ahead of him needs to be that one to shift to cover the RB slot. It's really a 2 2 box midfield when Trent moves inside.

      The other question is do we want Konate isolated week in week out as well as that will massively impact him.

      A lot of questions for how we set up the rest of the season, how this impacts the squad as it stands and more importantly how it impacts our recruitment in the summer.

      I hope that it's not a flavour of the month tactic and we haven't thought about how this affects what profile of player we but this summer.





      I think Jürgen is planning ahead and using the rest of this season’s games as a kind let’s of try it and see, and if things work out favourably he’ll tweak it and bring in those who will make it work better and perhaps even master it,
      I think his gegenpress system is done, obviously we no longer have the legs to implement it these days, and others have found a way round and at times thru it, rendering it a pointless exercise,


      Trent moving forward is interesting, we seen it against Arse where it almost worked but obviously teething problems and Arsenal’s quality curtailed Trent’s movement, against Leeds tho it was almost magical, the freedom Trent had gave him the confidence to roam finding himself left side of midfield on more than one occasion, but also freed up space further forward, space Mo can exploit, add the passing accuracy of both Trent and Virgil we can turn defence into attack in a instance,

      Jota been selected ahead of Nunez is also interesting, now I know predominantly Jota is our go to striker and he should trump Darwin anyway, however, with Diaz return imminent Jota or indeed Nunez may have to concede that left side, so where do we slot in Jota/Nunez, if Gakpo sits in the hole ? Obviously as central striker, and we all thought, Mane, Bobby & Mo wouldn’t be bettered,

      Getting back to Trent briefly, some humble pie will be eaten by yours truly, didn’t imagine Trent would be so good, but he looked so natural didn’t he, as if he’d been there for years, but but but, he is still a rwb, and I’m of the opinion that him moving merely shows his versatility, and should only be used if he has sufficient back up, or we indeed bring in a predominant rb !!




      YNWA

      srslfc
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #948: Apr 19, 2023 08:39:37 pm
      A Liverpool side on top form with new legs in midfield can accommodate Trent in that inverted FB role when we have the ball. But we need the right players and as I said MacAllister is the intriguing one.

      Trent    Konate    Virgil    Robertson

      Fabinho

      MacAllister     Mount

      Salah      Gakpo     Diaz

      Becomes

      Konate        Virgil        Robertson

                     Trent       Fabinho

      MacAllister             Mount

      Salah      Gakpo     Diaz
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #949: Apr 19, 2023 08:54:30 pm
      ,

      Getting back to Trent briefly, some humble pie will be eaten by yours truly, didn’t imagine Trent would be so good, but he looked so natural didn’t he, as if he’d been there for years, but but but, he is still a rwb, and I’m of the opinion that him moving merely shows his versatility, and should only be used if he has sufficient back up, or we indeed bring in a predominant rb !!


      YNWA



      You’re one of  very few who admit they may/or may not of got it wrong. 👏👏 It amazes me how many go into the abyss and just close shop and disappear for a while. 😂

      Do you think Klopp took my advice after reading my comments on here?   :f_whistle:

      Seriously though even if he stays in his original position based on 90/180 mins of Klopp tweaking his system it’s a great option in confusing your opponents. Even an attacking midfielder could be an occasional option. It does give Klopp that extra formation during a match when things don’t go to press.

      It’s first time this season I’ve seen Trent motivated as he was all over the place ( in a good way ) Only hope I’ve not kicked myself in the d!ck and you now come good, especially after transfer window.  😂

      Ps… fortunately it was only Leeds…  :f_whistle:
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #950: Apr 21, 2023 11:16:37 am
      There's no doubt the 'inverted' role for Trent is risky. Certainly the risk would go up a notch or three with Matip or even Gomez. Probably get away with it V Forrest.

      But I don't think we can go into next season with this as a serious game plan. Not unless we bring in 3 top midfield players. Far too risky against the top teams. Far better to bite the bullet and go full on with Trent as a genuine midfielder.
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #951: Apr 21, 2023 11:31:23 am
      You’re one of  very few who admit they may/or may not of got it wrong. 👏👏 It amazes me how many go into the abyss and just close shop and disappear for a while. 😂

      Do you think Klopp took my advice after reading my comments on here?   :f_whistle:

      Seriously though even if he stays in his original position based on 90/180 mins of Klopp tweaking his system it’s a great option in confusing your opponents. Even an attacking midfielder could be an occasional option. It does give Klopp that extra formation during a match when things don’t go to press.

      It’s first time this season I’ve seen Trent motivated as he was all over the place ( in a good way ) Only hope I’ve not kicked myself in the d!ck and you now come good, especially after transfer window.  😂

      Ps… fortunately it was only Leeds…  :f_whistle:

      Yes it was only Leeds. But it worked or more to the point Trent was very effective in midfield. More or less did what he has been doing for most of his career. And that's why he should be in mid permanently. Sees a pass as well as any. We have the pace up front so why not use Trent. The most telling was the Nunez goal. Sharpe cut inside by Nunez, Trent saw the chance the split second Nunez moved. And placed it almost perfectly. And Trent can do that from any position.

      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #952: Apr 21, 2023 01:30:18 pm
      Yes it was only Leeds. But it worked or more to the point Trent was very effective in midfield. More or less did what he has been doing for most of his career. And that's why he should be in mid permanently. Sees a pass as well as any. We have the pace up front so why not use Trent. The most telling was the Nunez goal. Sharpe cut inside by Nunez, Trent saw the chance the split second Nunez moved. And placed it almost perfectly. And Trent can do that from any position.



      Agreed with everything you said apart from from being in midfield permanently. I don’t think that decision can be made after just two games, I do think it’s a permutation that should be on the table pending future games and more significantly how many midfielders you buy in summer and possibly January window of 24.

      I’m still of the opinion ( sadly  :f_tongueincheek: ) he can come good again but not till midfield is sorted out once and for all. The way he passed that ball to Nunez was like that position was made for him. Incidentally, didn’t he use to play as a midfielder in your youth squad?  I find that really interesting which means he obviously had experience playing in that roll but don’t know for how long?

      If Klopp reads/listens to me again.  :f_whistle:  I would keep his options open and keep experimenting with Trent. Certainly  wouldn’t rule it out even if he toyed with the idea been central/attacking midfielder. If he plays like he did against Leeds verse the big boys it could be skys the limit for him, he’s still only 24/25 so it’s going to be very interesting what Klopp and his scouting team think going forward.

      Wonder if some of those that wanted rid of him having second thoughts now.  ;D

      Harrisimo
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #953: Apr 21, 2023 01:46:27 pm
      Agreed with everything you said apart from from being in midfield permanently. I don’t think that decision can be made after just two games, I do think it’s a permutation that should be on the table pending future games and more significantly how many midfielders you buy in summer and possibly January window of 24.

      I’m still of the opinion ( sadly  :f_tongueincheek: ) he can come good again but not till midfield is sorted out once and for all. The way he passed that ball to Nunez was like that position was made for him. Incidentally, didn’t he use to play as a midfielder in your youth squad?  I find that really interesting which means he obviously had experience playing in that roll but don’t know for how long?

      If Klopp reads/listens to me again.  :f_whistle:  I would keep his options open and keep experimenting with Trent. Certainly  wouldn’t rule it out even if he toyed with the idea been central/attacking midfielder. If he plays like he did against Leeds verse the big boys it could be skys the limit for him, he’s still only 24/25 so it’s going to be very interesting what Klopp and his scouting team think going forward.

      Wonder if some of those that wanted rid of him having second thoughts now.  ;D

      Think it's already been proved that Trent can play in mid. Nearly all his best moments have been going forward. Made the equaliser V Arsenal..numerous other situations. Can't keep messing around,inverted one week, not the next and switching it around during a game is a no-no. Puts too much pressure on the other three.

      Against better teams the 'inverted' plan is playing with fire. Going into next season we need a solid game plan. Matip will go and prob Phillips. Bolster the mid squad with 2 quality mids plus Trent. Quality central defender. Trent can still play the 'inverted' full back if injuries dictate. But I want Trent where he can do the most damage..in midfield. Seville us right if we get it wrong

       
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #954: Apr 21, 2023 02:03:37 pm
      Think it's already been proved that Trent can play in mid. Nearly all his best moments have been going forward. Made the equaliser V Arsenal..numerous other situations. Can't keep messing around,inverted one week, not the next and switching it around during a game is a no-no. Puts too much pressure on the other three.

      Against better teams the 'inverted' plan is playing with fire. Going into next season we need a solid game plan. Matip will go and prob Phillips. Bolster the mid squad with 2 quality mids plus Trent. Quality central defender . Trent can still play the 'inverted' full back if injuries dictate. But I want Trent where he can do the most damage..in midfield. Seville us right if we get it wrong

       

      With your season basically over I think you can temporarily switch him about for two reasons. (1) Klopp & Trent can work on it (2) Confuse the hell out of the opposition.

      Looking forward to seeing what Klopp decides though. From a manc prospective I hope he puts ( excuse the pun )  him right back at right back.   ;D
      Harrisimo
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #955: Apr 21, 2023 02:29:16 pm
      With your season basically over I think you can temporarily switch him about for two reasons. (1) Klopp & Trent can work on it (2) Confuse the hell out of the opposition.

      Looking forward to seeing what Klopp decides though. From a manc prospective I hope he puts ( excuse the pun )  him right back at right back.   ;D

      To be fair from your side of the fence Ten seems do be doing a good Job. Went wrong last night so still a work in progress. We don't or I don't follow United as closely as you follow us so I can't really comment from any knowledgeable stand point. Other than to make generalised comments.



      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #956: Apr 21, 2023 02:49:05 pm
      To be fair from your side of the fence Ten seems do be doing a good Job. Went wrong last night so still a work in progress. We don't or I don't follow United as closely as you follow us so I can't really comment from any knowledgeable stand point. Other than to make generalised comments.





      Yeah I’m a rare  breed aren’t I   :lmao: I suppose I could argue the saying!!  “ Keep your friends close  and your enemies closer “ couldn’t I   ;D

      Went terribly wrong but not going to let 90 mins football spoil what I think been a good season for United considering the transitional period we still found ourselves in. Icing on the cake like I’ve mentioned on other threads is top 4 now.

      Truth is I like this site better than any other one. Overall good bunch of lads on here that can have great banter and fair debates without some idiot saying what’s a manc doing on a Liverpool forum.   :D

      Harrisimo
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #957: Apr 24, 2023 01:43:19 pm
      Playing with fire going in against WH with Trent 'inverting'. Could make a similar case with Trent as out and out right back. Might be the time to bring Gomez in at the right back and go with Trent in mid. Shores up the defense, gives us Trent's distribution etc.

      West Ham, as it the case with nearly all the teams in the Prem, have improved their energy and mobility. Teams cover much more ground. Press better, all high energy ' Bielsa' like. Interchanging, attacking in numbers and quickly defending in numbers  as and when.

      WH have had a fairly mediocre season so far but they are coming into form and have quality players and if we don't match them for effort the game could easily get away from us.
      srslfc
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #958: Apr 24, 2023 06:46:01 pm
      Playing with fire going in against WH with Trent 'inverting'. Could make a similar case with Trent as out and out right back. Might be the time to bring Gomez in at the right back and go with Trent in mid. Shores up the defense, gives us Trent's distribution etc.

      West Ham, as it the case with nearly all the teams in the Prem, have improved their energy and mobility. Teams cover much more ground. Press better, all high energy ' Bielsa' like. Interchanging, attacking in numbers and quickly defending in numbers  as and when.

      WH have had a fairly mediocre season so far but they are coming into form and have quality players and if we don't match them for effort the game could easily get away from us.

      There could be a case for going more solid at the back and playing all our attackers bit for me this would involve Fabinho and Thiago as a double pivot midfield and not Trent.

      Gomez    Konate    Virgil    Robertson

      Fabinho     Thiago

      Salah      Gakpo      Jota

      Nunez
      billythered
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #959: Apr 25, 2023 05:58:37 am
      Agreed with everything you said apart from from being in midfield permanently. I don’t think that decision can be made after just two games, I do think it’s a permutation that should be on the table pending future games and more significantly how many midfielders you buy in summer and possibly January window of 24.

      I’m still of the opinion ( sadly  :f_tongueincheek: ) he can come good again but not till midfield is sorted out once and for all. The way he passed that ball to Nunez was like that position was made for him. Incidentally, didn’t he use to play as a midfielder in your youth squad?  I find that really interesting which means he obviously had experience playing in that roll but don’t know for how long?

      If Klopp reads/listens to me again.  :f_whistle:  I would keep his options open and keep experimenting with Trent. Certainly  wouldn’t rule it out even if he toyed with the idea been central/attacking midfielder. If he plays like he did against Leeds verse the big boys it could be skys the limit for him, he’s still only 24/25 so it’s going to be very interesting what Klopp and his scouting team think going forward.

      Wonder if some of those that wanted rid of him having second thoughts now.  ;D






      Firstly Keith,
      Jürgen thinks you’re a cnut too, just like the rest of us !!  🤣🤣


      Trent did play in midfield for the academy but that was at a time when other youngsters were trialling different positions, and yet to find the one that they make their own, Trent landed at rwb, the rest is history……


      …..however, as we’ve seen with other players over the years that players can adapt and adopt other positions, Bob Paisley converting Ray Kennedy from striker to midfielder when he arrived from Arsenal, so nothing new as we old cnuts should know,

      Personally I don’t think he will shift permanently, in fact if he does it takes away that element of keeping the opposition guessing/wondering how to set up formation against us….or indeed change to it during play,

      He definitely will come good again as too will one or two others who have run themselves into the ground the last few seasons….and obviously we have fresher newer leg’s from August…

      I think Jürgen is testing the waters of a tweak to the system….. and if fruitful ….will determine who will be best at implementing it from the transfer targets…. maybe this is the real reason we’ve cooled interest in the ‘Belly’ (Jude) maybe he isn’t what Jürgen sees as his ideal man… although I’m guessing Jude could adapt to any system…so maybe not then…. 🤔

      Like everything else we’ll all have to wait and see what transpires in the window, it’ll give us some indication which direction we’ll be taking…

      Looks like you’re dirty Scummy Fuckpigs are interested in Harry, and if he lands you’ll have two Dirty Harry’s to laugh at…sorry laud over, quotes of a £100k being mentioned which is yet another joke…. and where does that leave Rashford ? Can’t see him sharing the limelight with someone who wants his place….. who would you rather have??….


      YNWA


      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #960: Apr 25, 2023 08:59:57 am



      Firstly Keith,
      Jürgen thinks you’re a cnut too, just like the rest of us !!  🤣🤣


      Trent did play in midfield for the academy but that was at a time when other youngsters were trialling different positions, and yet to find the one that they make their own, Trent landed at rwb, the rest is history……


      …..however, as we’ve seen with other players over the years that players can adapt and adopt other positions, Bob Paisley converting Ray Kennedy from striker to midfielder when he arrived from Arsenal, so nothing new as we old cnuts should know,

      Personally I don’t think he will shift permanently, in fact if he does it takes away that element of keeping the opposition guessing/wondering how to set up formation against us….or indeed change to it during play,

      He definitely will come good again as too will one or two others who have run themselves into the ground the last few seasons….and obviously we have fresher newer leg’s from August…

      I think Jürgen is testing the waters of a tweak to the system….. and if fruitful ….will determine who will be best at implementing it from the transfer targets…. maybe this is the real reason we’ve cooled interest in the ‘Belly’ (Jude) maybe he isn’t what Jürgen sees as his ideal man… although I’m guessing Jude could adapt to any system…so maybe not then…. 🤔

      Like everything else we’ll all have to wait and see what transpires in the window, it’ll give us some indication which direction we’ll be taking…

      Looks like you’re dirty Scummy Fuckpigs are interested in Harry, and if he lands you’ll have two Dirty Harry’s to laugh at…sorry laud over, quotes of a £100k being mentioned which is yet another joke…. and where does that leave Rashford ? Can’t see him sharing the limelight with someone who wants his place….. who would you rather have??….


      YNWA




      You can still be a kunt  and know something about football, you’re a prime example Billy so fair play to you.  😂  Klopp has rang me again!! Hes asking what shud we do about Gomez. I said if you have enough money left when you get 3/4 midfielders he should be the next to leave.

      I too agree Trent won’t permanently moved to midfield but if he continues this new roll!!!  I think it will suit him. We’re currently seeing a new Trent now as he’s certainly found his smile again. So much for the ones who said he could only be a RB.

      Would appear now even Klopp thinks he could spice his position up somewhat. I QUOTE! The old Trent will be back subject to 3/4 midfielders coming in. Problem is Klopp said to me it’s very very doubtful he can get four in because he want to show some loyalty to Hendo &   Milner so that’s taking up his wage bill and still not decided 100% what’s happening with them both.

      Not heard any real noise about Harry the diver coming to OT but he’s my second choice anyway. Don’t think Rashford will be a problem due to him playing a false 9, granted he’s done well in that role but I’m pretty sure he’d be happy coming in off the flanks anyway if Harry does indeed arrive. We all know that Levy hardwork when it comes to buying his players. The kunt probably still wants 100+ million for him.
      sore monad
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #961: Apr 30, 2023 09:53:12 pm
      Tactically interesting today against Spurs. There was a lot of total football type rotation going on in that first half especially. Trent obviously free to wander all over the place. Konate covering him very wide at times, Robbo tucking into a back 3 a lot (very shakily, kept getting caught in possession). Midfield 3 were rotating around a lot as well. Virgil stepped into midfield a few times with Fab dropping into CB. Gakpo dropping deep a lot.

      Was mostly working quite well, and might have kept doing so if we'd kept our concentration and not started coasting at the back yet again. So yeah, I'm not going to blame the tactical changes Jürgen appears to be making, cos we've seen the same defensive sh*t all season with a more rigid formation. Actually think there is some promise there with the more fluid system, think he should stick with it til at least the end of the season, see how it goes. With us out of the title race, it is a chance for Jürgen to experiment a bit more and there are some promising signs. Might be some things we can take into next season with a stronger squad.
      PastorGeek
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #962: Jul 02, 2023 06:39:40 pm
      This is how Hungary play with Szobozlai

      I wonder if we might use this 3-4-2-1 formation with a 3rd CB signing.

      It will allow us to use Robertson and Trent further forward. 

      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #963: Jul 02, 2023 07:55:04 pm
      This is how Hungary play with Szobozlai

      I wonder if we might use this 3-4-2-1 formation with a 3rd CB signing.

      It will allow us to use Robertson and Trent further forward. 



      I think given the attacking players we’ve got, it’s going to be difficult to use that formation - especially if we’re to play him in the role that you’ve highlighted he does for Hungary.

      He could drop into a more central role and have Salah, Gakpo and Diaz ahead of him. But I think that’s the only way we play that particular formation at present.
      chats
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #964: Jul 02, 2023 10:42:20 pm
      Really excited to see what the long term plan is tactics wise for us now.

      Will we go back to the trusted 4-3-3 now we have some more legs in midfield? Will we try a 4-2-3-1 which really suits a lot of our players? Will we go with the inverted full back so Trent can push up more like the last few games of last season? Or something else entirely?
      brezipool
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      Re: Tactics geeks of the world unite...
      Reply #965: Jul 03, 2023 08:16:37 am
      Really excited to see what the long term plan is tactics wise for us now.

      Will we go back to the trusted 4-3-3 now we have some more legs in midfield? Will we try a 4-2-3-1 which really suits a lot of our players? Will we go with the inverted full back so Trent can push up more like the last few games of last season? Or something else entirely?

      The main thing for me is just having fit players who can rotate and play in various formations without a big drop off in standards\skills.

      I Enjoyed us mixing the tactics up during the last 10 games of the season.

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