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      Jerome Sinclair (Liverpool -> Watford)

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      carragerrard
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #115: Jan 19, 2016 07:56:01 pm
      not too fussed of him wants to leave
       if he does not want to stay here , good luck to him
       To be honest, seeing what kind of agent he has, glad we don't have to deal with that c*nt again

      YNWA
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #116: Jan 19, 2016 10:20:21 pm
      Not bothered if he leaves to be honest, don't think he's got what it takes.
      s@int
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #117: Mar 15, 2016 03:21:48 pm

      To be fair to the lad, he was never going to make it with us imo.
      s@int
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #118: Mar 15, 2016 03:34:34 pm
      Not really arsed about being fair to him tbh mate, he chose his agent and he erm can erm lie with him.

      Or something along those lines.

      :D

      I think there will be quite a few more following him in the summer. Tex and a few more of our midfielders must be a little uneasy at the young age of the midfield players we are bringing in from abroad. Doesn't really bode well for their future opportunities with us. 







      reddebs
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #119: Mar 15, 2016 03:44:40 pm


      :D

      I think there will be quite a few more following him in the summer. Tex and a few more of our midfielders must be a little uneasy at the young age of the midfield players we are bringing in from abroad. Doesn't really bode well for their future opportunities with us. 

      If they stay in England we'll at least get some decent compensation for them though.  Probably enough to cover the cost of those we're bringing in from abroad who are at least playing regularly at a decent level.

      Offload enough of them, along with the seniors whose contracts are up and we might be able to afford Gotze  ;D
      reddebs
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #120: Mar 15, 2016 04:34:58 pm
      That's that really expensive jewish cheese that's rolled on the thighs of virginal mermaids int'it?

      I'm in, sell the squad!


      Do mermaids have thighs Ian?
      lester76
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #121: Mar 16, 2016 03:27:54 am
      Not bothered to be honest.
      He isn't that good judging from what I have seen.
      I wish him well though and how ditches his agent asap.
      s@int
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #122: Mar 16, 2016 05:55:20 am
      If they stay in England we'll at least get some decent compensation for them though.  Probably enough to cover the cost of those we're bringing in from abroad who are at least playing regularly at a decent level.

      But isn't this always going to be the case. Players from small clubs with less competition for places getting more experience earlier than our players ? Doesn't mean they are necessarily any better, just that they have had more opportunities.

      The fact is that not one young player that we have brought in from abroad has graduated from the academy to become a first team regular with us... and we have brought in a lot!

      We keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.

      reddebs
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #123: Mar 16, 2016 11:33:09 am
      But isn't this always going to be the case. Players from small clubs with less competition for places getting more experience earlier than our players ? Doesn't mean they are necessarily any better, just that they have had more opportunities.

      The fact is that not one young player that we have brought in from abroad has graduated from the academy to become a first team regular with us... and we have brought in a lot!

      We keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.



      I guess it depends on what you call "academy graduates" mate. 

      If you're meaning the ones brought in at 16/17/18 years old then nobody really knows if they'll ever make it anywhere at that age and most of them, if not all of them, were'nt playing regularly for 1st teams anyway.

      In relation to Sinclair, he came to us from West Brom at 14 as a very highly rated prospect and did well at u18 level when still only 16 but never really pushed on from that when he got to u21s or when he was out on loan.  He's had a couple of senior appearances but didn't show enough to be used, even as a sub, when we basically had no strikers all last season.  I know he's still only 19 and there's plenty of development still to come but that doesn't mean he'll use it.  Not every young prospect at 14/15/16 will become Messi or even Raheem level.  Jürgen would have liked him to stay but he and his nobhead agent have decided he's too good to wait.

      The ones such as Ilori, Markovic, Can, Origi, Coutinho who were brought in at 19/20/21 were all playing at a high level before arriving.  I think they all had some CL or EL experience, some had senior International experience.  3 of them are regular 1st teamers for us and there's still time for the other 2 to stake a claim.

      Out of those we've brought in recently at 16 Chirivella has featured with the 1st team this season at 18, Yesil brought in at 18 featured before having 2 different ACL injuries in 18 months and going off the comments Jürgen made yesterday about 19 year old Allan Da Souza he'd be playing now if he had a work permit.  I'd like to think Sergi Canos will get his chance too when he gets back from his loan.

      I'm guessing here but I think Jürgen will have Grujic, who turns 20 next month, playing too when he arrives, or at least once he's settled.

      This last group are the ones I was meaning in the original post but I think you're referring to the younger ones not getting a chance due to the size of our senior squad.  We could always cut that back to the bare bones like LVG did at the scum last summer but we all know that trying to compete in 4 competitions that's not possible.
      s@int
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #124: Mar 16, 2016 04:10:25 pm
      I guess it depends on what you call "academy graduates" mate. 

      If you're meaning the ones brought in at 16/17/18 years old then nobody really knows if they'll ever make it anywhere at that age and most of them, if not all of them, were'nt playing regularly for 1st teams anyway.

      In relation to Sinclair, he came to us from West Brom at 14 as a very highly rated prospect and did well at u18 level when still only 16 but never really pushed on from that when he got to u21s or when he was out on loan.  He's had a couple of senior appearances but didn't show enough to be used, even as a sub, when we basically had no strikers all last season.  I know he's still only 19 and there's plenty of development still to come but that doesn't mean he'll use it.  Not every young prospect at 14/15/16 will become Messi or even Raheem level.  Jürgen would have liked him to stay but he and his nobhead agent have decided he's too good to wait.

      The ones such as Ilori, Markovic, Can, Origi, Coutinho who were brought in at 19/20/21 were all playing at a high level before arriving.  I think they all had some CL or EL experience, some had senior International experience.  3 of them are regular 1st teamers for us and there's still time for the other 2 to stake a claim.

      Out of those we've brought in recently at 16 Chirivella has featured with the 1st team this season at 18, Yesil brought in at 18 featured before having 2 different ACL injuries in 18 months and going off the comments Jürgen made yesterday about 19 year old Allan Da Souza he'd be playing now if he had a work permit.  I'd like to think Sergi Canos will get his chance too when he gets back from his loan.

      I'm guessing here but I think Jürgen will have Grujic, who turns 20 next month, playing too when he arrives, or at least once he's settled.

      This last group are the ones I was meaning in the original post but I think you're referring to the younger ones not getting a chance due to the size of our senior squad.  We could always cut that back to the bare bones like LVG did at the scum last summer but we all know that trying to compete in 4 competitions that's not possible.

      No Debs, the players I was referring to was the likes of Pacheco, Suso, Tex, Ajdarevic, Brouwer ,Dalla Valle etc etc rather than the players that were brought in as young first team squad players such as  Ilori, Markovic, Can, Origi, Coutinho etc.

      These players are brought in at 15 or 16 but don't gain the necessary experience here as they age and by the time they are 21/22 they are having to compete with the likes of Ilori, Markovic, Can, Origi,  etc. who have gained experience because they have been with smaller clubs. Maybe it is time to stop bringing players in from overseas at 15/16 who will never gain the experience required and concentrate on home grown youth and only bringing in players from abroad once they have that experience.

      Maybe the likes of Pacheco, Tex, Suso etc  once they had gained experience and had developed would now be on our wish list at 21 for the first team squad, just as the players we are now buying at 21, rather than just killing time sat in the reserves until we push them out of the door because they haven't had the experience to develop.

      I think we are killing more careers than we are building by bringing in young lads (under 18) from abroad.

      Not sure I have explained my point much better this time than I did before Debs, but I have tried mate. :)
       

      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #125: Mar 16, 2016 04:48:54 pm
      These players are brought in at 15 or 16 but don't gain the necessary experience here as they age and by the time they are 21/22 they are having to compete with the likes of Ilori, Markovic, Can, Origi,  etc. who have gained experience because they have been with smaller clubs. Maybe it is time to stop bringing players in from overseas at 15/16 who will never gain the experience required and concentrate on home grown youth and only bringing in players from abroad once they have that experience.

      I even question bringing players between 18-21 tbh.

      What if Kent, Brannagan, Sinclair were given the same amount of playing time as Can, Markovic and Origi since they joined us? They are all around the same age ish, aren't they? Whose to say they would not have been better?  I just feel we should stop spending ridiculous amounts of cash for under 21's (maybe 22) and start looking at home, because we may have better.
      reddebs
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #126: Mar 16, 2016 06:10:13 pm
      No Debs, the players I was referring to was the likes of Pacheco, Suso, Tex, Ajdarevic, Brouwer ,Dalla Valle etc etc rather than the players that were brought in as young first team squad players such as  Ilori, Markovic, Can, Origi, Coutinho etc.

      These players are brought in at 15 or 16 but don't gain the necessary experience here as they age and by the time they are 21/22 they are having to compete with the likes of Ilori, Markovic, Can, Origi,  etc. who have gained experience because they have been with smaller clubs. Maybe it is time to stop bringing players in from overseas at 15/16 who will never gain the experience required and concentrate on home grown youth and only bringing in players from abroad once they have that experience.

      Maybe the likes of Pacheco, Tex, Suso etc  once they had gained experience and had developed would now be on our wish list at 21 for the first team squad, just as the players we are now buying at 21, rather than just killing time sat in the reserves until we push them out of the door because they haven't had the experience to develop.

      I think we are killing more careers than we are building by bringing in young lads (under 18) from abroad.

      Not sure I have explained my point much better this time than I did before Debs, but I have tried mate. :)

      You've explained perfectly well mate and whilst I agree to some extent we don't actually bring in that many from abroad at 16/17 any more.  The ones I can think of are Chirivella and Canos who arrived aged 16, both are now 18 and both getting opportunities, even if Canos is on loan.  We aren't actually allowed to bring them in any younger due to child trafficking laws and quite right too.

      If I went through our regular u18s now or at least those who are still 18 most of them are British and/or local so the emphasis on recruitment has changed over the last few years.  In fact I think most of our u21s are too.

      I think those you mentioned were never good enough in the first place and/or didn't develop as expected and/or didn't show enough when they got an opportunity.  Having talked a lot with youth team coaches about this they're not expected to set the world alight straight away when they get the chance, what they're looking for are ways in which they try to influence the game or try to make a difference.  That might seem like it's asking a lot but if they don't even try then why persevere in giving them those chances when there are so many waiting to take their opportunity.

      Look at Raheem, Flanno, Ibe, Stewart, Brannagan, Rossiter, Ojo, Smith and even Joe Gomez, they all used those early games to showcase their worth.  Kevin in particular wasn't expected to do what he did, most thought of him as no better than a league 1 or league 2 level player, he wasn't even playing in his natural position but he impressed enough to get a new contract.  Same with Flanno, not many thought out of his age group that he'd be the one to stay and claim a starting spot.  Sometimes it's pure luck who gets a chance but they have to be ready and take it when they do, as they may not get another.

      It may seem harsh mate but if we want to produce the best we have to weed out those who don't show their worth when given opportunities.  Personally I'd say we kept hold of those players in particular too long but it's not all lost for Tex or Ilori as they're similar in age to Stewart and Brad Smith who only recently got starts without ever playing for the 1st team and both got new contracts as a result.  It'll depend on what/how they're doing in training and/or if we have better/showing more who are younger.

      Sorry Mods I've taken this totally off topic so going back to Jerome, good luck to him at Watford.  I've no idea what their youth set up is like and who, if anyone, they have playing striker at the Academy but I really can't see him pushing out their starting, 1st team strikers.  Troy Deeney, like Vardy is a hardened pro who's done it the hard way, playing league 1 and non league football until signing for Watford age 21.  He hasn't had an easy, cushy, academy upbringing like Jerome has.  It'll be a massive learning curve for him and I'm not sure he has the patience, the fight, nor the quality to become a PL striker.


      reddebs
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #127: Mar 16, 2016 06:41:18 pm
      I even question bringing players between 18-21 tbh.

      What if Kent, Brannagan, Sinclair were given the same amount of playing time as Can, Markovic and Origi since they joined us? They are all around the same age ish, aren't they? Whose to say they would not have been better?  I just feel we should stop spending ridiculous amounts of cash for under 21's (maybe 22) and start looking at home, because we may have better.

      Ryan turned 20 at Christmas, Cam and Jerome are still both 19 so they'll start to get games next season but none of them are physically strong enough yet to deal with seasoned PL pros, certainly not like Origi and Can were/are.
      mcarz
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #128: May 21, 2016 01:35:05 pm
      Quote
      WATFORD SIGN SINCLAIR

      It is a busy day for Watford with the Premier League club having just announced they have signed Jerome Sinclair from Liverpool on a four-year contract.

      The forward will move to Vicarage Road when his Reds contract expires at the end of June.

      http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11686/10289985/watford-sign-striker-jerome-sinclair-from-liverpool

      Good luck fella. Moving on for the right reasons. Was never good enough to get into our first team squad on a regular basis. Not sure he's really ready for first team football in the Premier League at all even though he has more of a chance at Watford.


      HScRed1
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair Player Thread
      Reply #129: May 21, 2016 03:07:50 pm
      All the best to him, unfortunately like a lot of youngsters not good enough for LFC.
      JD
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair (Liverpool -> Watford)
      Reply #130: Jun 30, 2016 01:44:15 pm
      LFC and Watford have reached agreement on the transfer which goes through tomorrow at the end of his contract.

      Expected to be around £4M - won't go to tribunal.

      "The 19-year-old has secured a move to Vicarage Road upon the expiry of his Reds contract but, as he is under the age of 24, his registration would have been subject to compensation in the form of a development fee.

      “However, following amicable and professional discussions between Watford and Liverpool, the clubs have reached an agreement regarding a transfer. Liverpool would like to wish Jerome all the best in his new career with Watford.”
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair (Liverpool -> Watford)
      Reply #131: Jun 30, 2016 02:18:31 pm
      LFC and Watford have reached agreement on the transfer which goes through tomorrow at the end of his contract.

      Expected to be around £4M - won't go to tribunal.

      "The 19-year-old has secured a move to Vicarage Road upon the expiry of his Reds contract but, as he is under the age of 24, his registration would have been subject to compensation in the form of a development fee.

      “However, following amicable and professional discussions between Watford and Liverpool, the clubs have reached an agreement regarding a transfer. Liverpool would like to wish Jerome all the best in his new career with Watford.”

      £4m is more than I was expecting, to be honest. I was thinking something like £1.5m or £2m.
      JD
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair (Liverpool -> Watford)
      Reply #132: Jun 30, 2016 02:31:29 pm
      £4m is more than I was expecting, to be honest. I was thinking something like £1.5m or £2m.

      I'd imagine LFC probably pointed to the fact that he is our youngest ever player - the fact he played for the first team a couple of days after turning 16?

      Maybe Watford saw the £8M Ings tribunal fee and thought it was better to settle before it went that far?
      waltonl4
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair (Liverpool -> Watford)
      Reply #133: Jun 30, 2016 03:23:35 pm
      don't let the door hit you on the way out. the Sterling effect these lads now think they should be all on £100k plus per week.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair (Liverpool -> Watford)
      Reply #134: Jun 30, 2016 03:26:31 pm
      When you look at our striking options and how Klopp has us set up, seems the right move for the lad, especially if he wants and can get first team football.

      zz19a
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair (Liverpool -> Watford)
      Reply #135: Jun 30, 2016 03:37:50 pm
      All the best man. YNWA
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair (Liverpool -> Watford)
      Reply #136: Jun 30, 2016 04:00:48 pm
      I'd imagine LFC probably pointed to the fact that he is our youngest ever player - the fact he played for the first team a couple of days after turning 16?

      Maybe Watford saw the £8M Ings tribunal fee and thought it was better to settle before it went that far?


      Yeah that's a fair point. He made so few appearances for us though, so that's probably why it didn't reach the level of Ings' fee.
      mcarz
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      Re: Jerome Sinclair (Liverpool -> Watford)
      Reply #137: Jun 30, 2016 04:00:58 pm
      I'll never begrudge somebody wanting to move for more first team opportunities.

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