Officials are ruining our game

FWIW I don't think the officials are corrupt in the technical sense but a lot are over rated and simply incompetent.
What they do suffer from is a sub conscious bias to please the big teams and esp those with those called big managers - Maureen/whiskey nose.
Until the FA start fully rating and assessing their performances it will always be thus.

There all as corrupt as the next one, but so are the players and agents and the governing bodies. Its one hand washes the other, tbh you be hard struck to find a business that isn't these days. There is no loyalty when it comes to money!!

Have ever won a game under Webb?

Genuine question.

Refs are human and are always going to miss something's in games, we have all missed things only to notice it on the replay or the highlights. But when you see Howard Webb miss things he missed and the view he had you have to question it. Or the linesman from Thursday night ruling Sterling offside when it wasn't even close what the fook was he watching, disgraceful really

We can only hope that the old adage comes true that things even out over the season, because were due a few calls based on that

Have ever won a game under Webb?

Genuine question.

Yeah but not against United, Citeh or Chavski that I know.

Have ever won a game under Webb?

Genuine question.

Yeh against Sunderland early on this season

Yeah but not against United, Citeh or Chavski that I know.

Maybe not but the three mentioned, have all had a better team than us for at least the last 4 years. So it isn't really a surprise we got beat by any of them

Maybe not but the three mentioned, have all had a better team than us for at least the last 4 years. So it isn't really a surprise we got beat by any of them

The quality or not of the teams is not up for discussion, what is is the most recent display of ineptitude and/or bias by the officials.
The fact cannot be denied no matter who wins the Prem. our ultimate success is being affect by mistaken officialdom, ring any bells? 

The quality or not of the teams is not up for discussion, what is is the most recent display of ineptitude and/or bias by the officials.
The fact cannot be denied no matter who wins the Prem. our ultimate success is being affect by mistaken officialdom, ring any bells? 

But the basis of this argument has little strength. You are singling us out as the only victims when where not. The mistakes made are called human error it affects every game

But the basis of this argument has little strength. You are singling us out as the only victims when where not. The mistakes made are called human error it affects every game

Speaking through your arse mate. The whole point is that 2 ref blunder's cost us vital point's. Having Manc ref's run the rule both of our biggest games over christmas is a joke.

But the basis of this argument has little strength. You are singling us out as the only victims when where not. The mistakes made are called human error it affects every game

And that's what gives room for the FA. to wriggle out of obvious wrong decisions...

I don't like to feel or sound like the usual disgruntled fan after a key bad decision but its hard not not to be suspicious when the refs view was clear as my piss "pre" xmas..

Impossible to prove but it wouldn't surprise me..

Have ever won a game under Webb?

Genuine question.

Probably the better question is have we ever had a match refereed by Webb that didn't have a controversal refereeing incident in it and to the best of my knowedge, that answer is no.

As I've said before, you could improve match officiating over night if you made Refs come out and give post-match interviews with the media like Managers have to. They could then be questioned on their decisions and explain them. If they knew their decisions could be challenged publicly they would be more careful to make the right decisions.

Speaking through your arse mate. The whole point is that 2 ref blunder's cost us vital point's. Having Manc ref's run the rule both of our biggest games over christmas is a joke.

They did, but if you look at how many other decisions that don't get given for other premiership teams it will be roughly the same. I lay it down 'mainly' to human error these bad decisions, although some might be corrupt how can you possibly tell!! Just because he's from greater manchester doesn't automatically mean he has a vendetta against us. What would you have done to stop this then, regionalise the refs? Every major team has fans in every corner of the country. Its easy to sit here and complain but why not come up with a solution.

Everyone is biased, some to more of an extent than others. But it can actually work against you, having someone supporting your team. I remember Hansen (I think) talking about how the director of Match of the Day was a staunch Liverpool supporter. Because he was worried that folk would call him biased toward them, MotD during his tenure ended up showing LFC the least number of times. Or at least their air time took a considerable nosedive - and I think that's when we were very successful! /Ramble off

Anyway, human error serves two purposes; greed and incompetence. We seem to have had a good deal of one if not both lately. The real trouble is because we don't know what exactly the problem is, we can't begin to fix it.

I think in games where a controversial decision has been made,the ref should give his his account of what he saw and why he made the decision,they are professional referees,they should be able to explain their decisions,in webbs case it might have gone something like this

interviewer... So howard can you explain why you didn't give Luis Suarez a penalty ?
webb.....       I didn't see it clearly
interviewer... Have a look at this monitor then,you are 10 yards away and looking right at the players,how could you not see it was a foul ?
webb.....       It was a foul
interviewer... So it was a penalty then,as it was in the box ?
webb.....       Yes technically it was a penalty,but erm,i will have to have another look at it,and walks off

I think if the refs were to give there account of why they gave certain decisions,it would cut out a lot of the really bad calls,like the Suarez penalty,the ones where they have no defence whatsoever,it would have been comical to watch webb squirm as to why he never gave it,as he knows and everyone who saw the match knows,he bottled it.

I actually agree. If referees are going to be a huge involvement in the game, it's necessary for them to give an account of certain decisions. Give the general pubic an insight as to why certain decisions were made, opposed to leaving us guessing all the time.

Yup

Make them stand in front of the cameras and explain why they did what they did. But then, what does that really resolve?

'Oh, I admit, I missed that one'

'In my eyes it was not a yellow/red card'

'I left him off because it was the only the 4th minute of the game'

My point is, there's a lot they could say to explain why they did what they did or didn't do what they should have. But whether or not it will eradicate human error or even bias/corruption, I'm not so sure. It's a step in the right direction though.

EDIT: Then again, there's only so many times a ref could say 'Yep, hold my hand up, I got that one wrong', before someone turns around and says 'Yeah well, you've just gotten one too many wrong'. Might work

They did, but if you look at how many other decisions that don't get given for other premiership teams it will be roughly the same. I lay it down 'mainly' to human error these bad decisions, although some might be corrupt how can you possibly tell!! Just because he's from greater manchester doesn't automatically mean he has a vendetta against us. What would you have done to stop this then, regionalise the refs? Every major team has fans in every corner of the country. Its easy to sit here and complain but why not come up with a solution.

He's from Manchester and consistently makes decisions that benefit our rivals.
Coincidence? I think not.
He also makes decisions in their games to their benefit.
Again coincidence? I think not. 

They did, but if you look at how many other decisions that don't get given for other premiership teams it will be roughly the same. I lay it down 'mainly' to human error these bad decisions, although some might be corrupt how can you possibly tell!! Just because he's from greater manchester doesn't automatically mean he has a vendetta against us. What would you have done to stop this then, regionalise the refs? Every major team has fans in every corner of the country. Its easy to sit here and complain but why not come up with a solution.

Howard Webbing was looking straight at Suarez when he was obstructed, that is not a mistake, it was clearly the case that Webb was biased against us. Everyone (except Jose) could clearly see it was a pen!

Again in the City match, the offside against Sterling could maybe be put down to poor officiating (very poor), but when Suarez was clattered into the back of by Lescot, also in full view of the ref and linesman, it starts to look like too many big decisions were going against us to be just poor match officiating.

We know Liverpool are treated differently by the FA, it should be no surprise that Refs follow suit.

I think in games where a controversial decision has been made,the ref should give his his account of what he saw and why he made the decision,they are professional referees,they should be able to explain their decisions,in webbs case it might have gone something like this

interviewer... So howard can you explain why you didn't give Luis Suarez a penalty ?
webb.....       I didn't see it clearly
interviewer... Have a look at this monitor then,you are 10 yards away and looking right at the players,how could you not see it was a foul ?
webb.....       It was a foul
interviewer... So it was a penalty then,as it was in the box ?
webb.....       Yes technically it was a penalty,but erm,i will have to have another look at it,and walks off

I think if the refs were to give there account of why they gave certain decisions,it would cut out a lot of the really bad calls,like the Suarez penalty,the ones where they have no defence whatsoever,it would have been comical to watch webb squirm as to why he never gave it,as he knows and everyone who saw the match knows,he bottled it.

That's pretty much it. If there is a legitimate reason then they get the chance to enlighten us. If there isn't the media gets it chance (on our behalf) to challenge the decision. It's time to stop treating Refs as pretty Princesses because it's this untouchability that's ruining the game.

The way I look at it is this way, our game is corrupted.

When Fergy retired I had hope that from now on it would be a level playing field, but that has proven not to be the case.
Our games against Chelsea and City have proved one thing, the richer the better. I have no doubt at all this is a corrupt league, and credit to the FA, they are doing well keeping ANY investigation to a standstill.

I looked at the Southampton managers comments when it came to refs decisions, and the fact this guy is asking questions, surely, no doubt, raises questions in itself?

Southampton have a manager who concentrates on playing football, but even he is questioning our officials.

Our officials are not poor, they are not inept, in fact they are very good at what they do. And what they do is get away with anything.

Some stats from this season ;



REFEREE       MATCHES    YELLOW CARDS     RED CARDS     FIRST SEASON
Martin Atkinson       13           29                             4                  2004/05
Mark Clattenburg        12         40                             0                2004/05
Mike Dean               13         39                             2                  2000/01
Phil Dowd                14         48                             0                  2001/02
Roger East                 3        12                             0                   2012/13
Chris Foy                11        29                             1                   2001/02
Kevin Friend         9        31                              1                   2009/10
Michael Jones       10        22                              1                   1994/95
Robert Madley       3        11                              0                   2012/13
Andre Marriner       15        45                             4                    2004/05
Lee Mason               13        46                             1                    2005/06
Jonathan Moss       11        39                             2                   2010/11
Michael Oliver       13        49                              2                    2010/11
Craig Pawson       4         9                                      0                    2012/13
Lee Probert       10        12                               1                     2006/07
Neil Swarbrick       9        25                               0                     2010/11
Anthony Taylor       11        36                               2                     2009/10
Howard Webb       16        34                               0                     2003/04


Looking like our Howard has the cleanest record, just in time for the Golden Ticket to Brazil next summer.. maybe why he didn't show Red to Oscar the other night..

Couldn't get the stats to how many pens they've all given..which would be interesting..

Is that Mr. Webb I see reffing the scum v spurs game?

Might keep an eye on this

Is that Mr. Webb I see reffing the scum v spurs game?

Might keep an eye on this

He made a good decision with Welbeck the cheat making a blatent dive.That's about it though.