Before we sack the manager, how will we be off in two seasons time?

People will know my opinion on Rodger's if you've seen my posts in this and other threads.

But serious question, we are currently on course for 42 points. Ten points worse than last season.

If, for the sake of argument, we finish with less than fifty points would you consider his position in May?

No - needs a second season.

Changing managers every season will get us nowhere.

They decided Kenny wasn't getting a second season and to try a different philosophy and structure - they have to give that the chance it needs.

People will know my opinion on Rodger's if you've seen my posts in this and other threads.

But serious question, we are currently on course for 42 points. Ten points worse than last season.

If, for the sake of argument, we finish with less than fifty points would you consider his position in May?

At this moment no I wouldn't as I honestly believe we won't be fighting relegation come April/May.

I've seen enough top flight football to know that teams generally have peaks and troughs throughout the season and although our points tally so far suggest we will finish on 42 points it will be nearer the 60 mark.

Watching us play there is no way we are relegation fodder as some of our rivals fans would have you believe 

At this moment no I wouldn't as I honestly believe we won't be fighting relegation come April/May.

I've seen enough top flight football to know that teams generally have peaks and troughs throughout the season and although our points tally so far suggest we will finish on 42 points it will be nearer the 60 mark.

Watching us play there is no way we are relegation fodder as some of our rivals fans would have you believe 

Firstly we won't be in a relegation battle because the bottom teams are doing so badly I'd be surprised if, taking run in freak results aside, more than 32-35 points to stay up.

Also I just do not see us finishing near 60 points to be honest. Last few year's we've finish on 63 (Rafa) 58 (RH/KD) 52 (KD). I just don't see how we'll finishing on 60 points from here given our terrible start.

Firstly we won't be in a relegation battle because the bottom teams are doing so badly I'd be surprised if, taking run in freak results aside, more than 32-35 points to stay up.

Also I just do not see us finishing near 60 points to be honest. Last few year's we've finish on 63 (Rafa) 58 (RH/KD) 52 (KD). I just don't see how we'll finishing on 60 points from here given our terrible start.

So this time last season did you believe/think we would finish in 8th with only 52 points?  18 points from 10 games lying in 6th, 1 point off 4th place.

Did you also think that Arsenal in 7th on 16 points, having lost 4 games, taking an 8-2 battering by the scum would finish on 70 points in 3rd? 

Terrible start/good start doesn't always mean relegation/winning the title.

If you genuinely don't think we're relegation fodder why is it so hard to believe we can get 60 points?

So this time last season did you believe/think we would finish in 8th with only 52 points?  18 points from 10 games lying in 6th, 1 point off 4th place.

Did you also think that Arsenal in 7th on 16 points, having lost 4 games, taking an 8-2 battering by the scum would finish on 70 points in 3rd? 

Terrible start/good start doesn't always mean relegation/winning the title.

If you genuinely don't think we're relegation fodder why is it so hard to believe we can get 60 points?

Because our last few seasons have been terrible. And you're talking about essentially a twenty point difference between the projection and your prediction. That is a lot.

Because our last few seasons have been terrible. And you're talking about essentially a twenty point difference between the projection and your prediction. That is a lot.

Ah right, so because our last few seasons have been terrible this one will be too.  That's logical.

This time last season we had averaged 1.8 points per game, then dropped to 1.2 points per game over the next 28 games.  If we turn that around we have averaged 1.1 points per game but if we improve that to the 1.8 we were managing last year that gives us another 50.4 points.  That makes 61.4 points come May.

Peaks and troughs mate, happens every season to most teams at some stage.

I reckon if we are to see a difference, a big difference at LFC, we need a fresh young manager with forward thinking. One who isn't afraid to blood the youngsters and give them a chance. One who knows what Liverpool FC is all about. One who has a long term plan, knows exactly what he wants, and how to get it.

Preferrably, one that has learned his coaching trade under the tutelage one of the best managers in the world. Ideally, the manager will be 40 years or even younger, but still having coached for 20 years. Prem experience would be essential, and if his team played some of the best football we've seen for a long time in the Prem, up there with Barca, I'd say we grab him and give him all the time he needs.

But wherever are we going to find a manager that fits that description? No idea, but he sounds ideal.

Ah right, so because our last few seasons have been terrible this one will be too.  That's logical.

This time last season we had averaged 1.8 points per game, then dropped to 1.2 points per game over the next 28 games.  If we turn that around we have averaged 1.1 points per game but if we improve that to the 1.8 we were managing last year that gives us another 50.4 points.  That makes 61.4 points come May.

Peaks and troughs mate, happens every season to most teams at some stage.

How is ignoring the last few seasons illogical? There are still a lot of the same players, a lot of the same problems.

As for points per game, fair enough you say if we reverse it we finish on 61 points, okay. Different approaches I suppose.

But my point is how on earth we a weakened squad and a manager still young and new to the job are we to be confident we can make up that 0.7 needed?

Also, tell's us a lot that a projected total of 61 points is good being considered reasonable anyway. I'm sick of how far we've slid since May 2009.

People will know my opinion on Rodger's if you've seen my posts in this and other threads.

But serious question, we are currently on course for 42 points. Ten points worse than last season.

If, for the sake of argument, we finish with less than fifty points would you consider his position in May?

My answer would be an absolute no. Quite frankly as long as we are not in the relegation zone whether it be 5th or 10th I don't rightly care. 17th - 20th means relegation with horrific implications  1-4 means CL footy and improved implications; anything in the middle means nothing except supporter pride. Would like to see us stay in Europa if we can't get CL but honestly to me 5th is the same as 11th as I understand he needs time and most importantly support from the owners to turn this ship around.

BR is literally going to have to run this club into the ground before he loses my support for the next 2.5 years. If we have progressed no where at the end of his contract and he had been given ample resources to compete then I will reevaluate my opinion; until then he has my unwavering support.

How is ignoring the last few seasons illogical? There are still a lot of the same players, a lot of the same problems.

As for points per game, fair enough you say if we reverse it we finish on 61 points, okay. Different approaches I suppose.

But my point is how on earth we a weakened squad and a manager still young and new to the job are we to be confident we can make up that 0.7 needed?

Also, tell's us a lot that a projected total of 61 points is good being considered reasonable anyway. I'm sick of how far we've slid since May 2009.

We all are mate but focusing on the negative will eventually drive you nuts.

As for basically the same players I'm not so sure.

Stevie, Reina, Agger, Skrtel and Lucas is all that's left from 2009, Johnson arrived June '09 and only Stevie and Pepe were regulars.

I reckon if we are to see a difference, a big difference at LFC, we need a fresh young manager with forward thinking. One who isn't afraid to blood the youngsters and give them a chance. One who knows what Liverpool FC is all about. One who has a long term plan, knows exactly what he wants, and how to get it.

Preferrably, one that has learned his coaching trade under the tutelage one of the best managers in the world. Ideally, the manager will be 40 years or even younger, but still having coached for 20 years. Prem experience would be essential, and if his team played some of the best football we've seen for a long time in the Prem, up there with Barca, I'd say we grab him and give him all the time he needs.

But wherever are we going to find a manager that fits that description? No idea, but he sounds ideal.

+1

That sounds like the sort of manager I would like at the club

We all are mate but focusing on the negative will eventually drive you nuts.

As for basically the same players I'm not so sure.

Stevie, Reina, Agger, Skrtel and Lucas is all that's left from 2009, Johnson arrived June '09 and only Stevie and Pepe were regulars.

You've misunderstood my reference to 2009. We've slipped miles since then but I'm talking about Roy Hodgson onwards. That summer in 2010 the team changed massively, since then we've been sh*te.

You've misunderstood my reference to 2009. We've slipped miles since then but I'm talking about Roy Hodgson onwards. That summer in 2010 the team changed massively, since then we've been sh*te.

Part of the change and the slipping is down to having no consistancy in ownership/management/direction


H&G
RBS Holding (MB-CP-IA)
FSG

Rafa
Hodgson
Kenny
BR

So the first thing we need to do to stop the slipping and rectify the sh*te is to have some consistency in ownership/manager and actually have a clear plan going forward instead of blowing in the wind as we have.

The last thing this club needs right now is any sort of change of direction.  BR has an idea, he has a plan and I believe that we need to move forward with it, along with ownership supporting it with the resources needed to implement it.

Brendan does have a plan but I bet it didn't include having only 1 fit striker.
Brendan could well be the best manager in football but without the players he will struggle and get frustrated.Its all down to January tick tock.

You've misunderstood my reference to 2009. We've slipped miles since then but I'm talking about Roy Hodgson onwards. That summer in 2010 the team changed massively, since then we've been sh*te.

My point still stands though mate.  The players I mentioned from 2009 are still here, the ones who remain from summer 2010 are Jones and Cole, neither of whom are regulars.

We have had a massive turnover of players, 3 different managers and new owners in that time.  All have had a different outlook on how things should be done.  The owners knew what they wanted from the beginning but dithered about getting it. 

We haven't been sh*te mate, we're finding our way with a new man and basically a whole new team, some of whom are not quite there yet but I have every faith that we will do ok come May.

The only reason Brendan will get time is because he's their choice. I would bet good money that if they'd inherited him or felt pressurised to appoint a legend by the fans , he'd be gone if we don't get  Champions League , or maybe sooner depending on position come Christmas.
The biggest plus for Brendan,  is , he's their man , for that we should be grateful.

Brendan is bomb proof the fans dont want another manager for at least 4 or 5 years and the owners cant do anything but support him.
So give him the tools to do the job.

The only reason Brendan will get time is because he's their choice

So was Kenny

So was Kenny

Not really , he was our choice and they went along with it. He didn't fit their profile and was only a stop gap after they sacked Hodgson.
Kenny steadied the ship , the fans would have revolted had they not given him another season. It didn't go as they hoped , they sacked him in a way many of us found cruel and disrespectful .
Brendan was their choice , they will give him the time they did not give Kenny , unless it gets very nasty.

Not really , he was our choice and they went along with it. He didn't fit their profile and was only a stop gap after they sacked Hodgson.
Kenny steadied the ship , the fans would have revolted had they not given him another season. It didn't go as they hoped , they sacked him in a way many of us found cruel and disrespectful .
Brendan was their choice , they will give him the time they did not give Kenny , unless it gets very nasty.

Kenny was their choice! They asked him to come back and manage, not the fans, stop making excuses for them. They still need to learn properly what this club is actually all about and stop listening to their 'advisors' who obviously know F**k all. Brendan wasn't even their initial choice was it, didn't they want Martinez and Brendan had already turned them down, until they got shut of Clarke. That was one of the stipulations Brendan wanted before he took the job.

I am not making excuses for them , no way. I do not believe for one minute that Kenny was their choice , they had no choice initially because Hodgson was sacked. Kenny steadied the ship and we played some good football,
the fans were happy and they were still finding their feet , so they gave Kenny the job.
I do not believe he was ever a long term choice for them.
As for Martinez , it depends who you believe , according to Whelan he was offered the job , our owners said he was never offered the job.
I do believe Brendan was their choice , and because of that they will give him time.
Will they give him funds in January though , now that will be very interesting. I think the January window will tell us much about what their ambitions are for this club , it will also give Brendan some food for thought .
I hope they back him with the money for who he wants , I am not confident they will. Time will tell.

Kenny was their choice! They asked him to come back and manage, not the fans, stop making excuses for them.

Spot on HR. This sh*te about Kenny not being their choice is the most ridiculous, of a long list of ridiculous excuses; they gave Kenny a three year contract, off the back of a fantastic half season, when we were sitting fifth in the league. They [FSG] done so only because they believed that he would go one step further and deliver Champions League football; they then backed him, financially, to do so. These are not the actions of a person (or persons) who didn't believe that Kenny was 'right'.

Remember too that Brendan was available at the very same time; if he was indeed their man they could have snapped him up then. The fact that they didn't says it all about their spin and bull-sh*t.

It's as simple as this: if Kenny had have finished in a Champions League place (even with his brand of football) he would still be our manager and Brendan would still be with Swansea. Why?... because we'd have the money that comes with it [C.L. football]. Football ideology and Tiki-taka wouldn't have come into it.

They have painted themselves into a corner by selling the notion that Brendan was their man all along so they'll have to back him from January on. Not a bad thing but let's not kid ourselves here; it's more by accident than design.

Anyhows back on topic...

Like bigmick says in the O.P.; the future is filled with potential and may not be as bleak as some may believe. However that potential is going to be difficult to manage.

Sterling, Suso, Shelvey, Kelly, Wisdom, Allen, Suarez, Agger, Reina, Skrtel, Johnson and Gerrard are all quality. This much is true. A few (five or six, IMO) quality additions and we have the potential of having a top squad in the non too distant future. This much is also true.

We've been asked to be patient - which is fair enough but... this is where we need to be careful and not fall into the trap that patience alone is all that's required. There must also be some sort of urgency. Bear with me:

There are, to my mind, a few of things that will turn a player's head; fame (Champions League football); fortune (a bigger pay day) and 'medals'. Whilst we, as fans, must wait for 'glory'; players do not have to. They can have it thrust upon them by 'fast-track'.

Should all of the players mentioned above be offered the chance to play for a team who can offer fame, fortune and or medals (whilst we, fans, are waiting) chances are, quite a few of them will be off. We've seen it before, we'll see it again. Players don't need to be patient. Also be under no illusions that if the money is right we won't sell. Therein lies the need for some urgency.

A few quality signings, sooner rather than later, will show intent. Our results will improve, our chances of winning trophies will too and so will our chances of holding on to the quality we already have.

So, whilst it may look to some (those who don't think too much and don't know me) that this is a "I want it now" post; the fact is, by getting some of "it now", we will be better off long-term.

I just hope that whoever the F**k is advising FSG loves Liverpool F.C. as much as we do and can make them [FSG] understand that football is not all about accounts/profit and loss.

 Top post mate and I have a sneaking feeling that Sterling in particular is going to have his devotion to our cause  tested before too much longer.