Liverpool 2:2 Young Boys: In game & post match grumbles.

With all due respect Billy the players are in a different league when it comes to fitness than they were in the past.

I dont want to keep going off topic but did you ever see Steve Heighway,tell ne he was not as fit as todays players,then we have smoking Joe Cole.Also we had the first fullback/winger in the country in Chris Lawler,now if he was not fit he must of been a magician to score the goals he did.I still think we should of beat Young Boys by playing our strongest team and if not required in the Udinese game then rested some players.

There is no guarentee that we would have beaten them with the missing players - that team was good enough to beat YB - not playing the strongest team wasn't the reason why we only got a draw

It was a quality strike for the first goal and then two of the players from our "strongest team" conceded possession and they broke quickly

We made mistakes - that wasn't because we didn't play our strongest team.

We can't and we won't play our strongest team every game - it's not something new - teams have been doing for a long time now

I dont want to keep going off topic but did you ever see Steve Heighway,tell ne he was not as fit as todays players,then we have smoking Joe Cole.Also we had the first fullback/winger in the country in Chris Lawler,now if he was not fit he must of been a magician to score the goals he did.I still think we should of beat Young Boys by playing our strongest team and if not required in the Udinese game then rested some players.

Totally agree with you about playing our better players to beat young boys, said as much in the thread. While I do subscribe to the rotation system, prioritising at the expense of jeopardising yourself in a cup competition is foolish. Having said that we had got ourselves into a decent position by the time the "better" players came on. Unfortunately I blame Gerrard a lot for the things that went wrong after he came on so in some ways that is a good counter argument for playing him. Not sure if he was mentally not up for it or what but it was a dire performance from our captain.

I also agree that Steve Heighway was much fitter than Joe Cole and yes was an exceptional physical specimen for his time but you also had the lads that enjoyed a drink after the game, some even before the game and that simply couldn't happen these days. I'm in no way saying the talent is better now and many of the players of the past would of put the modern day player to shame but they would of had to maintain a much more stringent fitness regime because that is the one thing that I believe has gone up substantially in the modern game and the level of fitness as an average across the league would of been too much for a like for like comparison with the past.

Therefore while I agree completely with your point, I still think that due to the increased fitness levels of the players and the strains of continuous pressing, high paced football that it is a massive risk to not rotate your players if trying to compete on 4 fronts. It is even more enhanced (the risk) when playing 2 games so close together, that's based on research done by A.C. Milan.

Totally agree with you about playing our better players to beat young boys, said as much in the thread. While I do subscribe to the rotation system, prioritising at the expense of jeopardising yourself in a cup competition is foolish. Having said that we had got ourselves into a decent position by the time the "better" players came on. Unfortunately I blame Gerrard a lot for the things that went wrong after he came on so in some ways that is a good counter argument for playing him.

We were in the same position when they came on as when they walked off. Drawing at home to Bern in European competition. Indeed their arrivals steadied the ship. If they were on earlier, we'd probably have our name booked for the next round now.

This statement is just completely false, I'm not even sure how you could possibly come to this conclusion.

Professionalism is getting a job done, regardless of situation, or circumstance. There are 90 minutes to play against Bern, as there are 90 minutes to play against the mancs. There are 3 points on offer against Bern as there are 3 points on offer against the mancs. You're supposed to treat each game the same, and do the same job every time.

A train driver has the same route to drive every time. His job isn't to drive half the route tomorrow, a third of it yesterday, and the full route today, his job is to drive the train in the exact same way, in the exact same direction, taking the same amount of time today as tomorrow as every other day. He could be more tired tomorrow than today, he could have more problems along the route tomorrow than today, but he still has to get the job done both days. And he does, because he's professional in his job, and he does it to the best of his ability. Like football teams should.

Don't think any  of the players are the same as they were though Billy.

In retrospect could you imagine Billy the anger if Brendan played Suarez in every minute of every game and he suffered a significant injury? I can honestly say (not meaning you) that many of those that subscribed to playing Suarez/Stevie every game without rest would be some of the first complaining about poor man-management and Brendan running our two best players into the ground.

The thing is though, they are going to get injured, somewhere, sometime. Such is the nature of injuries. It could be tomorrow, it could be against the mancs, or it could be 4 months down the line. The truth is we don't know when it's going to happen. Research in a lab is all very well, but injuries are completely random events on a pitch. The players have to play games however, and can't go through their career worrying when they're going to get injured.

I know most teams do, and that's their business. That doesn't mean I think it's right, I want us to follow suit, or I'll ever agree with it.

But you cant play your strongest team in every single game - we have 3 very important league games coming up - yes we want to win every single game so you utilize your full squad.

We are still in a good position to go through.

You can utilise your squad when everyone has the same ability, and can walk into the team without any impact on it's performance. Ours can't though. Without S&G, our team is fu**ed, and they showed why again on the night.

I don't know if we are in a good position to go through. The table may say different, but Bern have a home game against a side already qualified, while we need to win an away game in a hostile crowd, possibly a dodgy pitch in poor weather, and a weakened squad. We shouldn't be in that position at this stage of the group, but we are, and if we don't make it, we have to live with the consequences.

Both the CL and Europa league are two different tournaments than in recent years - it maybe the same trophies but its remarkably different tournaments

They both have a group phase, and 5 or 6 qualifying rounds either side of it. The finances are different, and the glamour is different, but European football is European football, and the end reward trophywise in both, is the same as it always was.

I think we should play our strongest team in every game and if a player is not up to the stress replace him with a sub,that is what the subs are for.I go back to Bill Shankly using 14 players in a full season now don't tell me the game was easier then or I will tell you different.

Fully agreed of course.

The game wasn't easier then, we had 60-odd games to play a year, all over 90 minutes against 11 opponents, in four competitions. In 2012, a full season is 60-odd games, over 90 minutes against 11 opponents, in four competitions.

Spot the difference.

I'm sorry but without Suarez we scored 2 goals and Gerrard had minimal effect - in fact both contributed to us losing the lead so late in the game.

So it's very insulting to other players to say the team is "fu**ed" without then

The differences between the game now and the game then is vast and in sure most people recognise the differences.

The difference in importance of the CL and Europa is also pretty clear to see as well.

I'm guessing you have been like this for nearly a decade as manager after manager utilised the squad to maximum benefit and to get the best out of the players. If not - welcome to modern football

without Suarez we scored 2 goals and Gerrard had minimal effect - in fact both contributed to us losing the lead so late in the game.

So it's very insulting to other players to say the team is "fu**ed" without then

Gerrard set up both goals at home to Bern. Suarez is by some distance our highest goalscorer this season. One of the season's catchphrases is "Where would Liverpool be without him?" Somewhere near Southampton I think.

You may find it insulting, but the team have consistently shown this year that without at least one of them playing, (preferably both) they can't score a goal. And you can't win any games without them.

I'm guessing you have been like this for nearly a decade as manager after manager utilised the squad to maximum benefit and to get the best out of the players. If not - welcome to modern football

When I see those in other sports having to perform 4-5 days a week, sometimes more, I baulk at the idea that professional footballers can't cope with playing twice a week. Play your strongest team available and you might have something to show for it. Prioritise and chances are, you'll end up as an also-ran at the end of the year.

Reality is, the "modern football" policy you support above, has helped cost us games, points, places, and trophies down the years, and this year too. Now I don't care how modern it is, but it is of very little benefit to me.

The reality is regardless of other sports modern footballers can play two games every single week but by Jan or Feb they will be physically exhausted and more suspect to injuries and strains and then they are incapable of playing at all. It's a long season with around 6 weeks of the year away from the sport - the rest is training and constant playing.

The players have to be managed correctly to ensure that they play to the top of their ability throughout the season and not burn out during the second half.

It's why every single club hire nearly 12 people just to monitor and work out fitness levels and training regimes to cater for that prime level of fitness.

Rafa is a massive pupil of that thought with his rotating but the reality is every single club and manager does it and has done for years.

And every single other sport monitors players fitness and they will only play when fully fit.