Points tally - end of season...

How many points would constitute a "Marked improvement" for you?

Forget League "position" - that really means nothing, in as, it is as much a reflection of how others have fared [failed/improved] as it is how we stand in our own right.

For me; I'd be looking at something in the region of a 20% to 25% increase... 20% seeing us finish with 62 points - 25% seeing us end up on 65.

Simple question really (concentrating solely on the League here):- How many points will it take for you to see that we are moving in the "right direction"? 

 I would say that it would have to be at least 65 points to show that we are moving in the right direction.It just shows how our standards have fallen when we accept 60-65 points as being an improvement.There should be some good discussion on this thread though.

4-5 more wins than last season to gives us between 64 and 67 points would show an improvement of strides forward but still not good enough. I think a good run of form can see us sneak into low 70's but will require a fantastic second half of the season.

High 60's for me say 67/68......but I agree with Billy about the accepted droppings of our standards.

Its going to be a long road fella's.

We have to aim for 67-70 points in my opinion. Turn these draws into wins and we'll be fine. Arsenal had a shocking start to last season and managed to get to 70 points.

December is a great month for us, in terms of fixtures.

Above 65 points would give us hope that we can improve again next season. 

Doesn't sound much but it means we have to win at least 16 of our 25 remaining games or average 2 points per game.

Above 65 points...

Doesn't sound much but it means we have to win at least 16 of our 25 remaining games or average 2 points per game.

I get exactly what you are saying. To put things into some sort of perspective; we are currently 'running' at 1.23 points per game. If that were to continue (which I don't believe for one second it will) we'd be looking at 46/47 points total. If we were to match last season's return we'd need to up that 'points per game' ratio to 1.44.

To show a "marked improvement" (something very tangible), like you, I'm thinking closer to 2.0 points per game from here on in.

I get exactly what you are saying. To put things into some sort of perspective; we are currently 'running' at 1.23 points per game. If that were to continue (which I don't believe for one second it will) we'd be looking at 46/47 points total. If we were to match last season's return we'd need to up that 'points per game' ratio to 1.44.

To show a "marked improvement" (something very tangible), like you, I'm thinking closer to 2.0 points per game from here on in.

It's not a bad return really mate, it means we can lose 9 more games   

I'd rather we lost trying to win than keep drawing tbh, at least it would show a bit of fire in our bellies.

To give it context I believe cup competitions have to be brought into the equation.

To do that I'm simply going to forget standard of opposition (an awful lot were premier league teams) and add the cup game results to our league tally (results based on 90 minute games):

Last Season:

Fa Cup

Played 6 Won 5 Draw 0 Lost 1 15 points from 18

League Cup

Played 7 Won 5 Draw 2 Lost 0 17 points from 21

Premier League

Played 38 Won 14 Draw 10 Lost 14 points 52 from 114

Our Final league standing for the season would then have been:

Played 51 Won 24 Draw 12 Lost 15 points 84 from 153

From this we see that our seasonal points per game played ratio was 3/153*84 = 1.65 points per game.

So if we apply this strictly to the league then that would mean improvement would have to be anything 63 points and above, the distance above that I'd actually class as improvement would be at least 2 wins and therefore 69 points, but that then would be distorting things in Kenny's favour some would say. I'd simply say that I'm giving credit where it's due but I'd be happy to address this thread come the end of the season and see what Brendan's points per game ratio is across all competitions.

I will say that no matter what Brendan's points tally is (and I'm actually expecting us to finish with around 60 points if I had to bet) he should be given time and not jumped upon for not making CL places because improving a team takes much more than 1 season. Next season I would expect to see real improvement and would hope our points per game ratio could get somewhere near 2 but really we're a long way off that at the moment and unfortunately expecting us to finish at 2 points per game from now on may be asking a bit too much.

For complete clarity Brendan is currently running at:

Played 24 Won 9 Draw 9 Lost 6 Points 36

Points per game ratio 3/72*36  1.5 points per game.

We ended last season getting 0.95 a game for the second half the season, but to be honest, I'd take +/- 6 points on the total we got  last season, at present.

To give it context I believe cup competitions have to be brought into the equation.

To be fair I've been rumbled... I'd purposely left the cups out hoping someone would ignore what I'd asked so thanks thanks Luke.   

I'd imagined that before now someone may have said "anything above 52"; my 'answer' then would have been to bring the Cups into the equation and point out their relevance in me coming to my conclusions of 62 (and above) as being a "marked improvement" - anything less isn't, in my opinion. Not 52 points and certainly not 46 for F**k's sake.

But listen; we were without Lucas for the last 25 games of the season so maybe his return will spark a return to, at least, the p.p.g. ratio of 1.77 we enjoyed before his injury. That (alone) in return would see us  with 60 points. Onwards and upwards.

Trust me to spoil it BBB, sorry 

Totally accept your point regarding Lucas too, it's crossed my mind on occasion as to what difference him not getting that injury might of had, but then Kenny had January to bring someone in if he thought it necessary so he can't apportion too much blame to that one injury in truth. (Unless you believe funds were with-held then we're just derailing the thread completely)

I think for a "marked" improvement, we should be looking at somewhere in the region of 70 points.

That would be 18 points better off than last year, which would probably be the six wins we failed to get last year due to the opposition keeper playing a blinder. It's a case of turning those games from last year against City, United, Norwich, Swansea (all at Anfield) and Fulham away into victories. As well as holding on to victories such as QPR at Loftus Road.

There's six games we should of won last year to get us to 70 points. So I think it's a reasonable aim this year as I don't believe as many keepers are playing as many blinders against us this year (or not yet at least)

I see us within the 65-70 band. Anything below i term as a disaster

Above 65 points would give us hope that we can improve again next season. 

Doesn't sound much but it means we have to win at least 16 of our 25 remaining games or average 2 points per game.

Thats about right Debs.   Agree.

I see us within the 65-70 band. Anything below I term as a disaster

 Not 52 points and certainly not 46 for F**k's sake.

I'm not happy with my prediction, whatsoever, I just think that's where we are at the moment.  Nowt to do with lowering expectations or not supporting the club as much as some others, just my thoughts of our current form.  I don't like it, but I can't deny how I feel we are doing.

I won't deny that I feel Kenny would have got us more points this season, I don't however think it would be a huge amount more.

I don't even want to post what I feel we would get right at this moment as I don't even want to read it myself.

We are at the moment 16points from 14 games.
72 points is still left. I know it would be difficult at this rate, but with a good jan window i expect us to pick around 35-40 points more.

Nowt to do with lowering expectations or not supporting the club as much as some others, just my thoughts of our current form.

No one was asking for a prediction mate. This ain't about expectations. So no need to cloud the issue.

The first question in the O.P. is very clear Rodders : How many points would constitute a "Marked improvement" for you?

If you don't believe we'll improve on last season, fair enough, don't beat yourself up but the question remains the same and I'll do my best to keep the thread from being diverted from it... no matter how hard some will try.   

How many points will it take for you to see that we are moving in the "right direction"?

I'm just hoping we get to 40. If we get more than we did last season I'd be shocked and happy. As for the topic, I'd like to see us improve 10 points on last season, I say that considering both how cursed we were at times in front of goal and how the players mugged off the league directly before and after the last few FA Cup matches.

I am afraid the way things are going could end up with as little as between 48 and 52, which would be a disaster as far as the league is concerned.

No one was asking for a prediction mate. This ain't about expectations. So no need to cloud the issue.

The first question in the O.P. is very clear Rodders : How many points would constitute a "Marked improvement" for you?

If you don't believe we'll improve on last season, fair enough, don't beat yourself up but the question remains the same and I'll do my best to keep the thread from being diverted from it... no matter how hard some will try.   

How many points will it take for you to see that we are moving in the "right direction"?

And as I stated, the total I indicated would be a marked improvement on our league form, from the second half of last season.  It may be uncomfortable reading, it's just the way I see things at present.

60 points from this point would be nothing short of a miracle.

Almost 2 points a game from here on in? I just can't see it at present.