Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing

And when Borrell does not have a good 1st half of the season then what Soctia...we planning on trying to beat the chavs on changing managers?

When does it end Scotia?

Long term patience with mangers around here seems to last right around 6 - 18 months, not exactly long term now is it?

Not talking about Borrell - just think its poor judgement to question loyalty of LFC fans. I hate to see that bandied in post match angst, simple as that.

Been here daily for 2 years now and honestly this "greatest supporters in the world" title is beyond my comprehension.

I can understand frustration at the owners for not spending enough, and anger for letting Kenny go...Brendan had no part in either one of those. Pretty clear to see what he wants to do and he has said that its going to take time...but 30 matches later I guess enough time has passed and the pitchforks are being sharpened.

Just goes to show how urban myths spread I suppose.

AZ as someone who has supported Liverpool Football Club through all of the glory days as well as the bad days when we got relegated to the old second division I feel I am justified in criticising  our players and manager after that inept performance at Stoke.As many posters have pointed out there was only one player of ours who put in the effort and earned his wages namely Luis Suarez.I feel our players should lose their wages because they sure as hell did not earn them.
                      AZ dont take this as a personal attack on yourself it is just my way of trying to explain how some of us long time REDS feel about the standard of football we are playing and the effort put in by players as was witnessed at Stoke.

Been here daily for 2 years now and honestly this "greatest supporters in the world" title is beyond my comprehension.

I can understand frustration at the owners for not spending enough, and anger for letting Kenny go...Brendan had no part in either one of those. Pretty clear to see what he wants to do and he has said that its going to take time...but 30 matches later I guess enough time has passed and the pitchforks are being sharpened.

Just goes to show how urban myths spread I suppose.

The fly by night nugget from across the water comes on again telling everybody how it is. You are on a forum for fucks sake and we have just been made to look like an amateur league football team by Stoke City. How you can question the support of this club when the only thing you have ever done is watch a game on the TV and talk to people on a forum is beyond me. Nothing wrong with overseas support by way of watching TV and going on a forum but F**k right off with the judgements when you only have those two to go on.

You say that everything's rosey and that's great, bodes well with your agenda and ties in nicely with your posts across the forum - nobody will ever say that you changed your story, bravo!

At the same time, anybody having a moan about our form, tactics and general performance on the pitch and at managerial level is well within their right. It is not good enough and the answers that we seem to be looking for in the January transfer window will not be enough if that last night is what we are to go off.

Whilst its easy to come out and say I'm fully supportive of the manager and whoever else, I am worried about the club. I worry that the support could actually be blind faith and that one year from now after giving it time we could be in a situation that is beyond repair where too many mediocre players have been signed and the remaining diamonds are either gone or consigned to doing so.

That last night was dire and some of the comments from the gaffer worry me as does his refusal to play Gerrard advanced. Probably the best finisher at the club as his penalty last night and finishes against United and Fulham shown.

I could moan on and on to be honest which is also worrying as its far easier to do than speak with much positivity at the moment. It seems when Rodgers speaks in length about his visions, etc or when we do get a win, we are all desperate to get in there and wax lyrical as much as possible because its such a rare occurence.

Stoke had a field day against us and whilst outplaying us, which they did by the way no matter what you think of their style, they bullied us and we didn't have a single player willing to stand up to them.

Big groan I know, but its how I feel today.

Just need to check that last wasnt just a nightmare and that we got outplayed and outfought by Stoke to firmly keep us mid table !

Lack of character from the players (Suarez aside) and lack of ideas from the manager.

Again our two "hardmen" at the back were made to look lightweight when they come up against a physical players.

At the half way mark we havent beaten any of the 9 teams above us and 25 points from 19 games is shocking regardless of the fact its a new manager / system / kit / goalnets or whatever else!

Whilst its easy to come out and say I'm fully supportive of the manager and whoever else, I am worried about the club. I worry that the support could actually be blind faith and that one year from now after giving it time we could be in a situation that is beyond repair where too many mediocre players have been signed and the remaining diamonds are either gone or consigned to doing so.

Agree with the entirety of your post WAHS but pulled this particular part out as this is also my biggest worry. While I completely agree with everyone that says patience is part of the answer and changing constantly will never bring about success I need Brendan to show me something that ignites my faith in him as I must admit questions are remaining unanswered and doubts are definitely creeping in.

Just simple facts like our lowest points total since the 3 point system began for the first half of a season. Stoke scoring their most goals in over a year and our defence going from being the joint best at this point of last year to being around 10th best this year. That, when you consider it's the same players doesn't just ring alarm bells it screams at you that something is fundamentally wrong.

Stoke had a field day against us and whilst outplaying us, which they did by the way no matter what you think of their style, they bullied us and we didn't have a single player willing to stand up to them.

I intended to read, consider but not post last night to digest things before speaking but I'm afraid I let AZ comments questioning loyalty of fans too much and I bit back (slightly).

On the game itself - I don't think there's anything more I can say than this. And please, let's not kid ourselves, they looked dangerous and we looked like we were about to, maybe, just about, almost create a half chance for Luis. I don't wanna see us play like Stoke but please let's not kid ourselves based on possession stats or speculative shots - they controlled the meaningful flow of that game, as did Villa.

The lack of fight distressed me the most.

The fly by night nugget from across the water comes on again telling everybody how it is. You are on a forum for fucks sake and we have just been made to look like an amateur league football team by Stoke City. How you can question the support of this club when the only thing you have ever done is watch a game on the TV and talk to people on a forum is beyond me. Nothing wrong with overseas support by way of watching TV and going on a forum but f**k right off with the judgements when you only have those two to go on.

You say that everything's rosey and that's great, bodes well with your agenda and ties in nicely with your posts across the forum - nobody will ever say that you changed your story, bravo!

At the same time, anybody having a moan about our form, tactics and general performance on the pitch and at managerial level is well within their right. It is not good enough and the answers that we seem to be looking for in the January transfer window will not be enough if that last night is what we are to go off.

Whilst its easy to come out and say I'm fully supportive of the manager and whoever else, I am worried about the club. I worry that the support could actually be blind faith and that one year from now after giving it time we could be in a situation that is beyond repair where too many mediocre players have been signed and the remaining diamonds are either gone or consigned to doing so.

That last night was dire and some of the comments from the gaffer worry me as does his refusal to play Gerrard advanced. Probably the best finisher at the club as his penalty last night and finishes against United and Fulham shown.

I could moan on and on to be honest which is also worrying as its far easier to do than speak with much positivity at the moment. It seems when Rodgers speaks in length about his visions, etc or when we do get a win, we are all desperate to get in there and wax lyrical as much as possible because its such a rare occurence.

Stoke had a field day against us and whilst outplaying us, which they did by the way no matter what you think of their style, they bullied us and we didn't have a single player willing to stand up to them.

Big groan I know, but its how I feel today.

Spot on

I feel the same way, the only way to get consistency is to stop making the same mistakes.

The angriest I've been for a long time, making Jones and Walters look like worldbeaters, the team looked totally underprepared for the game, the flaky mentality shone through yet again, 3 terrible goals, it could have been different if Luis hadn't missed that chance at 2-1 but then to give such a bad goal away straight after is unforgivable. Hasn't BR watched Stoke play ever. Pretty terrible against a tema with no skill but plenty of heart and desire and above all very well organised.

 We just were second best (apart from LUIS, when the ball reached him) in all departments
  The majority of the 50/50 balls  were won  by Stoke
Most of the time our players were  bullied when tackling
  lets face it the pressure by stoke players when we had the ball was amazing,

 very , very disappointed with the result , but this is football , hoping for a better result next time but we have to accept that we lost fair and square

  YNWA

At the same time, anybody having a moan about our form, tactics and general performance on the pitch and at managerial level is well within their right. It is not good enough and the answers that we seem to be looking for in the January transfer window will not be enough if that last night is what we are to go off.

Whilst its easy to come out and say I'm fully supportive of the manager and whoever else, I am worried about the club. I worry that the support could actually be blind faith and that one year from now after giving it time we could be in a situation that is beyond repair where too many mediocre players have been signed and the remaining diamonds are either gone or consigned to doing so.

That last night was dire and some of the comments from the gaffer worry me as does his refusal to play Gerrard advanced. Probably the best finisher at the club as his penalty last night and finishes against United and Fulham shown.

I could moan on and on to be honest which is also worrying as its far easier to do than speak with much positivity at the moment. It seems when Rodgers speaks in length about his visions, etc or when we do get a win, we are all desperate to get in there and wax lyrical as much as possible because its such a rare occurence.

Stoke had a field day against us and whilst outplaying us, which they did by the way no matter what you think of their style, they bullied us and we didn't have a single player willing to stand up to them.

Big groan I know, but its how I feel today.

Apart from your opening salvo (concerning another poster, of which I know nothing, so can't comment), I agree 100% with all you wrote. Especially the bold bits.

Something clicked last night, and not in a good way, something snapped would be more accurate, and even this morning, I admit to still being totally p!ssed off with the gaffer. I think it's more to do with being sick to the back teeth of hearing all this talk about visions and philosophies and 7 frigging zones on the football pitch. All well and good, but right now I'd settle for a few direct balls up to Andy Carroll/Frank Stapleton/Kenwyne Jones/Mark Hately/whoever, and start bullying teams like we were bullied last night.

This, from looking odds on for an ECL (Wigan 3-0, Fulham 4-0) one minute, to stumbling around like a drunk with no clue the next (Villa 1-3, Stoke 3-1) is totally ridiculous and is evidence that we are not making any real progress. Our position and points total also confirm that. Right now we are all at sea and it's something like pantomime season at the club. I'm all for long term planning, but right now, apart from more possession, I see sod all improvement over last season. So enough talk, get winning games.

I'm glad the January transfer window is almost upon us, because if this were happening months ago, would you trust the gaffer with millions to spend on new recruits? Worrying thought, earlier we were drawing a lot of games but managing not to lose, now we are starting to lose games.

Sorry, just very very disillusioned and totally fed up with it all. Rant over.

EDIT: It may just be the way he holds himself, but has anyone noticed how totally lost the gaffer looks when the camera pans over to him, when we are losing? It reminds me of Hodgson just sitting there looking shell shocked and at a loss as to what to do. That may just be the media doing its job though, but I was curious if anyone else had noticed his body language

Been here daily for 2 years now and honestly this "greatest supporters in the world" title is beyond my comprehension.

I can understand frustration at the owners for not spending enough, and anger for letting Kenny go...Brendan had no part in either one of those. Pretty clear to see what he wants to do and he has said that its going to take time...but 30 matches later I guess enough time has passed and the pitchforks are being sharpened.

Just goes to show how urban myths spread I suppose.

The ''myth'' urban or otherwise still stands.
The fabric of LFC has been eroded by indivduals who for one reason or another have no understanding of the traditions and depth of support involved in the history of this club.
To some extent with our latest owners money and time are a factor; they don't have the money or the time to immerse themselves in the culture of LFC, inclination really does not merit a mention.
If the concept is lost so are the superlatives and we will remain a medium entity for the duration of FSG's tenure; they are incapable of achieving what we would regard as success.
H&G were a catastrophic exaggeration of our present owners.

Just need to check that last wasnt just a nightmare and that we got outplayed and outfought by Stoke to firmly keep us mid table !

I know exactly what you mean. Martin Tyler uttered words I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime; "Stoke are threatening to embarrass Liverpool"

What's bothering me most isn't the fact that we lost three points against Stoke, or that we played sh*t.  No!  Most thing that bothering me is,  the kind of attitude we showed yesterday.  This is outrageous! Unacceptable! Losing is one thing, but losing with such an attitude ... not for Liverpool Football Club!

BUT first thing I'll do today is:

Going to my training and wearing the red shirt! 

Team and manager need great support in these days!

What's bothering me most isn't the fact that we lost three points against Stoke, or that we played sh*t.  No!  Most thing that bothering me is,  the kind of attitude we showed yesterday.  This is outrageous! Unacceptable! Losing is one thing, but losing with such an attitude ... not for Liverpool Football Club!

BUT first thing I'll do today is:

Going to my training and wearing the red shirt! 

Team and manager need great support in these days!

Abusing players on twitter is the way to go these days apparently.

Abusing players on twitter is the way to go these days apparently.

Personally - I'm going into centre of Glasgow and gonna do some performance art. Bit of mime, maybe bit of fire-eating - need to get something off my chest.

Last night reminded me of a visit we made to Stoke in January 2010 (Rafa's last season). We were struggling a bit at the time, having surrendered 2-0 at Portsmouth a few matches earlier, and Rafa packed the team with defenders, including 3 centre-backs (Kyrgiakos, Carra and Skrtel).

We played ugly.  But we matched Stoke for effort and physical strength, helped by Kuyt and N'Gog defending at set pieces.  1-1 was a decent result in the circumstances.

Last night's selection, approach and attitude gave us no chance of matching Stoke's qualities.  Maybe battling is beneath our Barca wannabes?

Personally - I'm going into centre of Glasgow and gonna do some performance art. Bit of mime, maybe bit of fire-eating - need to get something off my chest.

Good luck with that one, is this the first time you've had a go?
Rennies does it for me.

Echo the thoughts of many in the thread. Terrible performance from all, from management down to players, except for, once again Luis Suarez. If our players had half the desire of them Stoke lads, we would be much higher in the league, but instead you hear them talking about 'getting back into the CL'. How about living in the here and now and actually make it happen? A lot of it strikes me as players just taking it for granted that it will all come together because we're Liverpool and it doesn't work like that, just sick of it all now.

The performance itself was awful, the goals we conceded were a joke. Everyone knows how Stoke get at you, long balls and set pieces. All 3 goals conceded came from their basic tactics. First one noone was sticking with Walters, even though he was always looking to pick up the knock down. 2nd one, is it even worth going in to? No man on the post against F***ing Stoke City, whoever came up with that idea needs shooting. And the 3rd one, very good finish, but noone has got tight to him, when they know a long throw is going to be arriving. It's basic stuff that you learn in school, I could do a better F***ing job and that isn't an exaggeration!

The Centre Backs for us, never looked like winning a header and that's mostly because they allowed themselves to be backed into and went for half-hearted headers, almost as if they were afraid of having a clash of heads or something.

Shelvey was awful, giving away simple 5 yard passes, his accuracy is woeful and he's a very inconsistent player, turns up one week and produces a performance like that the next.

The manager, although his philosophy is admirable, the application seems to be missing. You've got to be able to change things up if plan A isn't working. And what he needs to change is what everyone has been saying all season, more bodies in the box, commit men forward and get the ball forward quicker, whilst Suarez is making his runs, dragging defenders all over the place. Instead, we keep possession for the sake of possession. Did anybody honestly feel at 3-1 we had a hope of getting back in to it? I certainly didn't.

January is going to be vital and it's going to take more than Daniel Sturridge and Tom Ince to get us competing in these types of games.

I don't know if someone's beat me to it and already posted this but this is what Enrique has said today about the match last night. I'm highlighting the bit I wish to make a point about:

Jose Enrique believes Liverpool need to show more character if they are to achieve a top-four finish this season after the Reds lost 3-1 to Stoke at the Britannia Stadium on Boxing Day.

Things had started so well for the visitors when Steven Gerrard fired them in front with their first penalty of the season, but Stoke fought back to take the points, and the left-back admitted it was a bitter pill to swallow.

"I thought after the penalty we were going to win the game but overall they played better than us and we didn't deserve the three points," Enrique told Liverpoolfc.com.

"We need more experience and need to show more character in these type of games.

"You can see we have quality players and we have a good squad, but we need fo fight for every point we play for if we want to be in the top-four.

"We have to get a winning mentality going and we have to show what we are all about."

Liverpool head to Harry Redknapp's Queens Park Rangers on Sunday and Enrique is hoping the Reds can end 2012 on a winning note.

He added: "We need to bounce back from this defeat and we need to go to QPR and win.

"Every game in this league is difficult but you have to give 100 per cent every time you play for this club and show character."

This is what we can blame the owners for. There is currently too much of an obsession over "up and coming" talent. We have too many youngsters at the club with too little experience. When you look at teams like Arsenal or Utd who have successful track records of developing youth, that youth is gradually introduced in to a team of senior, experienced players. Bringing in experienced players allows for the best of our youth to gain experience so by the time the next generation of youth start coming through, today's youth players will be tomorrow's experienced players.

If we are to progress beyond mid-table mediocrity, we need the owners to put their hands in their pockets and bring in some experienced, proven players. £15m, £20m isn't going to buy this talent either. Yesterday's result has nothing to do with the owners, let me be clear on that, but the season's progression, or lack thereof, does and it's high time our transfer budget matched our ambitions but at the same time, we need to avoid the mistakes of the past and look beyond our shores because British "talent" is over priced and under skilled for the most part, with the best of them already being at top clubs.


Source: http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/jose-we-must-show-more-character

I was still enjoying the win over Fulham until I watched last night, It was like watching 11 different players, I know Stoke make it hard, but we knew that, sticking to 1 game plan against these was a mistake, Stoke stopped us playing our 'Barca' style football and after that we had no back up plan...If we had a target man, we could have gone more direct, and maybe picked up more of the second ball.
I hope we do learn from this, we arent quite good enough to beat everyone at touch and pass football yet, so we should retain the ability to win messy sometimes.

Last night reminded me of a visit we made to Stoke in January 2010 (Rafa's last season). We were struggling a bit at the time, having surrendered 2-0 at Portsmouth a few matches earlier, and Rafa packed the team with defenders, including 3 centre-backs (Kyrgiakos, Carra and Skrtel).

We played ugly.  But we matched Stoke for effort and physical strength, helped by Kuyt and N'Gog defending at set pieces.  1-1 was a decent result in the circumstances.

Last night's selection, approach and attitude gave us no chance of matching Stoke's qualities.  Maybe battling is beneath our Barca wannabes?

Kk done the same thing last year and worked a treat aswell

Only two clubs have spent more i understand both Gross and Net.

Did any of them clubs wipe £50m off the wage bill in that same period ?

I don't believe they did.

We can all blame Kenny, Comolli and Rodgers for their signings but when they are being charged with a budget under the orders to slash £50m off the wage bill, then surely thatgoing to hamper the quality of player you can go for ?

Its not like you can sell or release some one on £100k a week and bring some one in on the same wages as to cut the wage bill by £50m, you need to be offering around £50k a week to the player you are bringing in.