Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing

Did any of them clubs wipe £50m off the wage bill in that same period ?

I don't believe they did.

We can all blame Kenny, Comolli and Rodgers for their signings but when they are being charged with a budget under the orders to slash £50m off the wage bill, then surely thatgoing to hamper the quality of player you can go for ?

Its not like you can sell or release some one on £100k a week and bring some one in on the same wages as to cut the wage bill by £50m, you need to be offering around £50k a week to the player you are bringing in.

....and we can conveniently forget about the £50m for Torres that went some way in helping with the spondoolies Daz.

....and we can conveniently forget about the £50m for Torres that went some way in helping with the spondoolies Daz.

That Torres money was FSGs role of the dice.
Once they sacked the man who spent it they effectively wrote it off.
Now cost cutting has been the name of the game and we are paying the price for that on the pitch.

That Torres money was FSGs role of the dice.
Once they sacked the man who spent it they effectively wrote it off.
Now cost cutting has been the name of the game and we are paying the price for that on the pitch.

I fear you're right Racer

For one of the first times in the season I thought the manager was culpable last night. They play at an unbelieveable tempo and we weren't ready for it all. They launch it and we didn't deal with it, and they are good at set pieces and we didn't deal with that.

Suso should neve have played. We should have defended far higher up, they're hardly going to burn us off for pace are they? Wisdom should have played right back, Johnson left back and Enrique midfield. I'm deeply concerned about Luca, he was never fast but now he looks funereal. I'd have had Gerrard sitting, with Shelvey off of him and Henderson on the right. Up top (because I'd have gone 4-4-2) I'd have had Suarez AND Sterling. If they want to press the ball on the edge of our penalty area then fine, we shoul give ourselves the option of exposing them at the back for pace. We should have compressed the game into their half, we should have been more up for it, we should have had a better plan.

The manager was culpable this time, as was Agger who was absolutely awful. For me, he and Lucas should pay for that display with their places against QPR, and Sterling should replace Suso. Only a win will do.

Remember the good old days when managers used to drop a player when they performed poorly?

You know, when they weren't earning twice to three times the amount the manager was?

Its hard to see where we go from here becuase we just don't know which team will turn up.
In order to have won last night wwe needed to match Stokes effort and then rely on quality to make the difference.If anyhting Stoke played the better football at times so were the F**k does that leave us.
We dont seem able to get down and dirty when its required and we dont have Barcelona's players to play teams off the park.
Brendan has to think about this squad and how he is going to get some consistency out of them and if that means changing tactics then so be it.

Its hard to see where we go from here becuase we just don't know which team will turn up.
In order to have won last night wwe needed to match Stokes effort and then rely on quality to make the difference.If anyhting Stoke played the better football at times so were the f**k does that leave us.
We dont seem able to get down and dirty when its required and we dont have Barcelona's players to play teams off the park.
Brendan has to think about this squad and how he is going to get some consistency out of them and if that means changing tactics then so be it.

 I think we need to be braver in posession of the football, and that doesn't mean more and more tiki taki. If you pressed Barcelona, or any good posession team as high up and in as many numbers as Stoke did, they'd Just clip it over the chasers into midfield where they'd inevitably be light. A football teams only got eleven players, and as much you can compensate by running around a lot you can't seriously have four people on the edge of our box closing down and not leave yorself light elsewhere. To exploit that, you've got to be able to pass it longer. Not launch it the length of the pitch, but pass it like Skrtel did for Suarez's penalty run.

 Our fallback position last night when uder pressure was to pass it shorter and shorter and slower and slower. If their two central midfielders are pressing on the edge of our box, just tuck Suso and Downing into the centre circle and chip it into them. You've got to have a plan, and we can practice it against QPR if we want because they will do exactly the same thing on a tiny pitch. If you haven't got the time and the space to play your normal game, you must do something else and pick your way through. Last night was akin to a team putting eight markers on Messi and yet Barcelona still trying to pass to him. They wouldn't, they'd pass to someone else who is inevitably unmarked and muller you anyway.

 I think we need to be braver in posession of the football, and that doesn't mean more and more tiki taki. If you pressed Barcelona, or any good posession team as high up and in as many numbers as Stoke did, they'd Just clip it over the chasers into midfield where they'd inevitably be light. A football teams only got eleven players, and as much you can compensate by running around a lot you can't seriously have four people on the edge of our box closing down and not leave yorself light elsewhere. To exploit that, you've got to be able to pass it longer. Not launch it the length of the pitch, but pass it like Skrtel did for Suarez's penalty run.

 Our fallback position last night when uder pressure was to pass it shorter and shorter and slower and slower. If their two central midfielders are pressing on the edge of our box, just tuck Suso and Downing into the centre circle and chip it into them. You've got to have a plan, and we can practice it against QPR if we want because they will do exactly the same thing on a tiny pitch. If you haven't got the time and the space to play your normal game, you must do something else and pick your way through. Last night was akin to a team putting eight markers on Messi and yet Barcelona still trying to pass to him. They wouldn't, they'd pass to someone else who is inevitably unmarked and muller you anyway.

I dont like getting beat but I really don't like it when we look so weak and defenseless.It could have been worse last night had they had a bit more quality we simply did not compete with them and passing it around our own box played into their hands and we just ended up panicking.
We really need to go back to basic and start having defenders who defend.Its great seeing Johnson and Enrique attacking but the get exposed all the time their first job must be to defend and neither of them are great at that.

That Torres money was FSGs role of the dice.
Once they sacked the man who spent it they effectively wrote it off.
Now cost cutting has been the name of the game and we are paying the price for that on the pitch.

There's very little said about that racer for a number of reasons; it could possibly show Rafa in a good light or it could cast a shadow on the owners credibiliy, selective amnesia time again?

I dont like getting beat but I really don't like it when we look so weak and defenseless.It could have been worse last night had they had a bit more quality we simply did not compete with them and passing it around our own box played into their hands and we just ended up panicking.
We really need to go back to basic and start having defenders who defend. Its great seeing Johnson and Enrique attacking but the get exposed all the time their first job must be to defend and neither of them are great at that.

 Agree with this bit mate but I think you have the wrong culprits. I think our centre halves have been awful now against West Ham, Aston Villa AND Stoke. They've been bullied by a big centre forward in all three, and I think it's time Agger played left back or sat down. I'd play Carra against QPR and push Agger to left back, moving Enrique back forward again. I'd also consider playing Glen Johnson (who's been magnificent this season to be fair) to right midfield and playing Wisdom right back. We'vew got to become harder to play against, and step one to achieve that is to play harder players.

Agree with this bit mate but I think you have the wrong culprits. I think our centre halves have been awful now against West Ham, Aston Villa AND Stoke. They've been bullied by a big centre forward in all three, and I think it's time Agger played left back or sat down. I'd play Carra against QPR and push Agger to left back, moving Enrique back forward again. I'd also consider playing Glen Johnson (who's been magnificent this season to be fair) to right midfield and playing Wisdom right back. We'vew got to become harder to play against, and step one to achieve that is to play harder players.

Isnt the fact that Enrique and Johnson go so far forward they drag the CB's higher up the pitch and we are left time and again exposed to counter attacks.
I know Redblood is tired of making this point about our tactics but how long is it before Brendan has to look at himself and the way we set up teams.

Agree with this bit mate but I think you have the wrong culprits. I think our centre halves have been awful now against West Ham, Aston Villa AND Stoke. They've been bullied by a big centre forward in all three, and I think it's time Agger played left back or sat down. I'd play Carra against QPR and push Agger to left back, moving Enrique back forward again. I'd also consider playing Glen Johnson (who's been magnificent this season to be fair) to right midfield and playing Wisdom right back. We'vew got to become harder to play against, and step one to achieve that is to play harder players.

I would have had Jamie in a back 5 last night splitting Agger and Skrtyl. I would probably do the same against QPR because they are going to come at us like men possessed becuase it will be made clear by the opposing manager that LFC do not like it up them.

Isnt the fact that Enrique and Johnson go so far forward they drag the CB's higher up the pitch and we are left time and again exposed to counter attacks.
I know Redblood is tired of making this point about our tactics but how long is it before Brendan has to look at himself and the way we set up teams.

 It wasn't any counter attacking problem last night, and I actually think the centre backs would have been better served defending MUCH higher up than they were. If a team bombards you, you MUST get up the pitch so that if they do win a header or get a knockdown, they aren't Walters style in on goal twelve yards out. Kenwyn Jones, Carlton Cole and the like WILL win it in the air, Carroll used to win it in the air for us, but teams didn't defend on the edge of the penalty area against us while he was doing it. If you do do that (and we have in all three games mentioned) you will get big problems.

I dont like getting beat but I really don't like it when we look so weak and defenseless.It could have been worse last night had they had a bit more quality we simply did not compete with them and passing it around our own box played into their hands and we just ended up panicking.
We really need to go back to basic and start having defenders who defend.Its great seeing Johnson and Enrique attacking but the get exposed all the time their first job must be to defend and neither of them are great at that.

If Johnson is gonna shock and go missing we must have the strength and the understanding to cope, when Stoke see it coming off they made the appropriate tactical adjustment and pressured the vacant slot, we did not have the quality in place to defend the gap and we were torn apart - similar with Enrique.
The shock tactic fails to materialise if the reaction has been countered and addressed.

The biggest thing i can see is no-one fears for there place, in the olden days 70/80 if you play crap youd get dropped but that doesnt happen  were told players are rested bollox ,joe cole,downing should not be on the bench let alone starting, tactically BR is naive even in the late 80s KK dropped Beardsley regularly against millwall.wimbledon, unless BR is that arrogant that he thinks he invented keeping the ball he needs to be tactically aware if. tony pulis had his tactics spot on ,they  pressed us high and we struggled stattos out there how many chances have we given to opposition  cos of trying to pass it out,safety first look at the team we let go since CL final and replaced it with this sh*te, to me theres no work in progress when you a liverpool fan i crave success overpriced british players 15 million for allen a player who doesnt score doesnt create absolute madness rant over AZ im no MANC

The solution to our defensive problems isn't bringing Carra into the team - unfortunately he just can't handle the Prem now.

We have had 6 clean sheets this season only one team has more i think - the set up with the back four seems wrong - BR had them too high pressing and no one goes to attack the ball during set pieces.

maybe a back 4 of  agger srktel fb kelly and wisdom when fit and johnson and enrique further forward

I really don't mind losing to stoke especially at the Britannia ,it was just the way we lost (spineless)which was what it was.
Skrytl and agger looked like they've never played together recently which is very concerning.
On the bright side at least the bookies got a bit of a battering yesterday,could not believe you could get 3/1on stoke.

Last night reminded me of a visit we made to Stoke in January 2010 (Rafa's last season). We were struggling a bit at the time, having surrendered 2-0 at Portsmouth a few matches earlier, and Rafa packed the team with defenders, including 3 centre-backs (Kyrgiakos, Carra and Skrtel).

We played ugly.  But we matched Stoke for effort and physical strength, helped by Kuyt and N'Gog defending at set pieces.  1-1 was a decent result in the circumstances.

Last night's selection, approach and attitude gave us no chance of matching Stoke's qualities.  Maybe battling is beneath our Barca wannabes?

Yeah, completely agree. Pass-n-move and striving to control the possession is admirable, but we need to be able to adapt.

Was obvious Stoke were winning the battle of the long ball - so why not bulk up to 3 CBs (even if not starting with 3). This doesn't help us down the other end, but there's nothing wrong with grafting to get at least a point.

Yeah, completely agree. Pass-n-move and striving to control the possession is admirable, but we need to be able to adapt.

Was obvious Stoke were winning the battle of the long ball - so why not bulk up to 3 CBs (even if not starting with 3). This doesn't help us down the other end, but there's nothing wrong with grafting to get at least a point.

yeh have to agree 3 cbs was the way to go but then i guess that spoils the whole tiki taka thing and BR possibly feels is a small admission of failure

We need a more practical system for certain games due to our squad, we need some hoofing and longballs due to our sqaud

Im all for the system brendan has, it has guaranteed several teams survival in the PL and cemented mid table positions BUT this is LFC and that just isnt good enough

Without having the xavis iniestas and messis of this world or ronaldo,kaka,rivaldo with cafu/carlos overlapping its just too unpredictable as wigan/swansea prove every week, we dont have the firepower to outscore teams and committing so many average players forward is exposing our defence

The LFC teams of 20 years ago had absolute monsters of players we recruited the best and mixed them with experienced grafters setting transfer records along the way, now every second article on the official site is aimed at lowering expectations and full of excuses why we have no money somehow?? Always telling us next year will be better well were almost 4 years into this austerity program and we're setting record lows on the pitch but probably more profitable financially than ever

We just dont have the calibre of player to win major prizes every year with this system AND our current transfer policy means we never will have imo

The solution to our defensive problems isn't bringing Carra into the team - unfortunately he just can't handle the Prem now.

We have had 6 clean sheets this season only one team has more i think - the set up with the back four seems wrong - BR had them too high pressing and no one goes to attack the ball during set pieces.

That's not necessarily the case in my opinion. Stoke aren't exactly renowned for their pace but are for their physicality. I think Carra in the team yesterday would not have been bullied so easily.

That's not necessarily the case in my opinion. Stoke aren't exactly renowned for their pace but are for their physicality. I think Carra in the team yesterday would not have been bullied so easily.

I totally agree, if carra was there yesterday you'd have seen him organising the marking at every set play and corner and throw in. Something i didn't see once yesterday.

Remember the good old days when managers used to drop a player when they performed poorly?

You know, when they weren't earning twice to three times the amount the manager was?

Poor Bob Paisley got dropped fopr the 1950 F.A.Cup Final against Arsenal and that was after he played a blinder(and scored) against Everton in the semi final.If Bob would of been playing against Stoke believe me there is no way he would of been bullied.How come we do not have an enforcer these days,Tommy Smith,Souness,Mascherano are names that come to mind and there are more if I care to dig into the old memory box.I am still so annoyed after that performance at Stoke.