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      Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing

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      MIRO
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #575: Dec 27, 2012 06:36:17 pm
      Apart from your opening salvo (concerning another poster, of which I know nothing, so can't comment), I agree 100% with all you wrote. Especially the bold bits.

      Something clicked last night, and not in a good way, something snapped would be more accurate, and even this morning, I admit to still being totally p!ssed off with the gaffer. I think it's more to do with being sick to the back teeth of hearing all this talk about visions and philosophies and 7 frigging zones on the football pitch. All well and good, but right now I'd settle for a few direct balls up to Andy Carroll/Frank Stapleton/Kenwyne Jones/Mark Hately/whoever, and start bullying teams like we were bullied last night.

      This, from looking odds on for an ECL (Wigan 3-0, Fulham 4-0) one minute, to stumbling around like a drunk with no clue the next (Villa 1-3, Stoke 3-1) is totally ridiculous and is evidence that we are not making any real progress. Our position and points total also confirm that. Right now we are all at sea and it's something like pantomime season at the club. I'm all for long term planning, but right now, apart from more possession, I see sod all improvement over last season. So enough talk, get winning games.

      I'm glad the January transfer window is almost upon us, because if this were happening months ago, would you trust the gaffer with millions to spend on new recruits? Worrying thought, earlier we were drawing a lot of games but managing not to lose, now we are starting to lose games.

      Sorry, just very very disillusioned and totally fed up with it all. Rant over.

      EDIT: It may just be the way he holds himself, but has anyone noticed how totally lost the gaffer looks when the camera pans over to him, when we are losing? It reminds me of Hodgson just sitting there looking shell shocked and at a loss as to what to do. That may just be the media doing its job though, but I was curious if anyone else had noticed his body language

      Yup.
      MIRO
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #576: Dec 27, 2012 06:38:31 pm

      Im all for the system brendan has, it has guaranteed several teams survival in the PL and cemented mid table positions BUT this is LFC and that just isnt good enough

      The LFC teams of 20 years ago had absolute monsters of players we recruited the best and mixed them with experienced grafters setting transfer records along the way, now every second article on the official site is aimed at lowering expectations and full of excuses why we have no money somehow?? Always telling us next year will be better well were almost 4 years into this austerity program and we're setting record lows on the pitch but probably more profitable financially than ever

      We just dont have the calibre of player to win major prizes every year with this system AND our current transfer policy means we never will have imo



      Agree.
      brilad
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #577: Dec 27, 2012 07:40:33 pm
      I got so annoyed I ended up having one of those very pissed arguments with my best mate about the game that ended up with us having to be separated ,very embarrassing and very hungover today with the Missis not impressed.:-(bloody load of sh*te the lot of them(apart from loui)
      jabv
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #578: Dec 27, 2012 09:25:24 pm
      We needed Kirgyakos!! I loved that man, such a beast in the air.  Anyway,  I would've loved to see Coates starting, and Shelvey being dropped. Losing to Stoke is one thing, but losing after a 2min lead and getting dominated is F***ing silly.
      redkop63
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #579: Dec 28, 2012 01:46:22 am
      The angriest I've been for a long time, making Jones and Walters look like worldbeaters, the team looked totally underprepared for the game, the flaky mentality shone through yet again, 3 terrible goals, it could have been different if Luis hadn't missed that chance at 2-1 but then to give such a bad goal away straight after is unforgivable. Hasn't BR watched Stoke play ever. Pretty terrible against a tema with no skill but plenty of heart and desire and above all very well organised.

      No, I don't for a second thinks BR ever watch Stoke play because he has simply played into the hands of Stoke. Why did we keep on pumping the ball into the box when they've 3  6 footers defenders, I just can't figure out what BR was trying to achieve. When Stoke pressed us high up the pitch, BR never shouted at the defenders to move the ball out of defence faster but allowing Agger and Skrtel to dally and wait for the clear sky before launching the ball upwards thus inviting more pressure upon them.

      Common sense dictates that if you play against a physical team with 6 footers, you pass the ball fast and try to out manouvre them as they tend to be clumsy. As for Jonjo, I'm not sure whether he's the long term answer to our midfield. He may have the desire but his skills can only take him that far. He was in the box most of the time just for the sake of being there, no attempt to make a nuisance inside the box or get involved enough, always get piinned at the far post and ball watching. At least show some passion, run around more often, harass defenders and  get into scoring positions.

      Did BR ever work on tactics to break Stoke down, again I doubt it, it was as clear as a sky that Stoke was trying to get us away from their box by defending high up the pitch and closing us down fast in midfield. What we do, knock the ball around at half pace and our defenders took ages to lauch the ball upfield.

      We can say different things all day long but we simply didn't have the quality of players in depth to bring us back to the top. When we replaced Masch with Henderson and Alonso with Allen, this is what we can come to expect. Not to mention many of our players are physically and mentally weak.

      Some doubted Sturridge but I can't wait till Jan for him to come onto the pitch, he has the qualities that most don't, probably 3/4 of our squad doesn't, that is, attack with speed and aggression.

      From the game itself I could see that there's no plan from BR to break down Stoke's defence, the players were lost when Stoke packed their defence. Everthing happened at the final third is at random. Perhaps BR should, for a change look at the game diffferently, the more you pack the defence, the more I'll come at you until you're exhausted and make mistakes, and discard the 5 - a side football.
      redkop63
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #580: Dec 28, 2012 01:51:14 am
      I got so annoyed I ended up having one of those very pissed arguments with my best mate about the game that ended up with us having to be separated ,very embarrassing and very hungover today with the Missis not impressed.:-(bloody load of sh*te the lot of them(apart from loui)

      Hope BR and the players can show similar passion.
      Scottbot
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #581: Dec 28, 2012 11:12:30 am
      Steered clear of the internet all day yesterday so this is my first trip into this thread. My thoughts were:

      - I really thought the manager was gonna bring in coates and go 3 at the back for this one with Sterling perhaps playing a central role with Suarez. He made some similar adjustments for matches earlier in the season and it would have made perfect sense. I was surprised to see Suso get the nod to start again and was dissapointed to see him benched at half-time because it can't be good for the kid mentally to get subbed so early so often. Doesn't strike me as good man management.

      - As an attacking side I thought we played well in the first half. We looked a threat and were it not for a couple of bad first touches from Suarez and Shelvey we could have bagged 2 more goals.

      - Defensively we were awful and I don't think the manager can take all the blame for this one. Skrtel and Agger were completely bullied and our middies did a poor job on 2nd phase balls all game. Those are 2 fundamentals and there's not much a coach can do when top players don't deliver in this respect.

      - There's a lot of talk about attitude and effort and passion in here. I don't nesessarily buy that. Your average fan turns into some sort of sport psychologist when their team loses. I just thought we got out coached and out matched by a Stoke side that executed their gameplan to perfection.

      Fingers crossed we see a reaction on Sunday at QPR.

      As a side note, for those of you that had a good ol vent (justifiably) in here perhaps we'll see you in the post-match thread after the QPR if we win?
      Rush
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #582: Dec 28, 2012 11:52:15 am
      - I really thought the manager was gonna bring in coates and go 3 at the back for this one with Sterling perhaps playing a central role with Suarez. He made some similar adjustments for matches earlier in the season and it would have made perfect sense. I was surprised to see Suso get the nod to start again and was dissapointed to see him benched at half-time because it can't be good for the kid mentally to get subbed so early so often. Doesn't strike me as good man management.
      You are criticising the manager here for his choice of personnel and timing of substitutions, and I agree. Which is what most are saying; the gaffer had a bad day at the office from start to finish on this game.

      - As an attacking side I thought we played well in the first half. We looked a threat and were it not for a couple of bad first touches from Suarez and Shelvey we could have bagged 2 more goals.
      Only your attackers playing well for half a game is just not good enough, as I'm sure you'll agree. It's scant consolation.

      - Defensively we were awful and I don't think the manager can take all the blame for this one.
      We should have kept a higher defensive line and suffocated their long ball tactics - instead, we were putting in last ditch tackles in and around our 18 yard, so I blame the gaffer here. It invited all sorts of pressure on us, which in turn nullified our midfielders because the ball kept flying over their heads. We never seem to play the offside trap anymore, and you don't need Usain Bolt and Yohan Blake to do so either, just sound tactical awareness.

      Skrtel and Agger were completely bullied and our middies did a poor job on 2nd phase balls all game. Those are 2 fundamentals and there's not much a coach can do when top players don't deliver in this respect.
      Worried about Lucas, he looks a yard slower, and he wasn't fast in the beginning. Hopefully it's just match fitness.

      - There's a lot of talk about attitude and effort and passion in here. I don't nesessarily buy that. Your average fan turns into some sort of sport psychologist when their team loses. I just thought we got out coached and out matched by a Stoke side that executed their gameplan to perfection.

      Agreed, I don't think we lacked passion, but we were still bullied by a very physical Stoke side. Fair enough, but the worrying part is that we could not counter that at any time.

      Fingers crossed we see a reaction on Sunday at QPR.

      Like we did when we lost 3-1 at home to Villa, where we went on to batter Fulham 4-0? Yes, agreed. But right now (can't speak for others) I'm so disillusioned because we then capitulated against Stoke. I just cannot see a happy ending here even if we do destroy QPR. Depressing ain't it?

      As a side note, for those of you that had a good ol vent (justifiably) in here perhaps we'll see you in the post-match thread after the QPR if we win?

      Of course
      Ebieahi
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #583: Dec 28, 2012 12:23:40 pm
      It was just poor all round.
      Poor tactics, poor defensive display and poor finishing.
      Its no use throwing around ifs and maybe's... we were totally outfought and outplayed by Stoke.
      Tbh given the way the team has performed this season, i dont think that we ever had a chance of beating Stoke... since we havent done it for 20 odd years, however i expected better organisation and alot more effort "passion".

      Anyways, on to the next one... i fully expect a strong reaction over the next 2-3 games at least. I hope we also do well in the Transfer window :)
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #584: Dec 29, 2012 08:51:06 pm
      Like I said Walton he and the owners are playing the long game. Sure he would like to win every match, I am sure he hates to lose, but he is going to do it his way; he is not going to drastically change what he does, players will have to adapt or get shipped out.

      Nobody wants to say it or believe it but BR & FSG are looking at next year and 3 years from now etc.....etc. Brendan's and the owners idea on how they want to do this constitutes a breaking down of the entire squad and rebuilding it, plans like that do not take 30 matches.

      Short term inconsistency for better future results is what I see them doing.

      Not saying I agree with it, but I can see it plain as day.

      Sorry to pick this part of your post out but i had to.

      Do you honestly think NESV are going to finance the total rebuild of a Premier League Squad?, they won't even release substantial funds for single players, let alone a squad.

      What makes me laugh is that NESV were more than happy to get raped on the Borini and Allen transfers, totalling over £25 million. Then we signed Yesil for a million and Assaidi for around two and a half.

      I see hints of Hicks and Gillett here, expecting a manager to win the Premier League on a shoestring. It's not going to happen.

      NESV are in a corner here, Rodgers start has been comparable to that of Project Owl's. A situation that NESV saw unacceptable when they brought the King in. Rodgers has made a worse start with a better set of players in reality.

      Now if they really think this man is the man to take us forward they have to back him heavily. Giving him breadcrumbs will just see us stagnate or regress, we most certainly won't progress with puny funding.

      I'm not asking them to spend £100 million, i'm asking them to spend between £40-50 million in the Summer of their own money, without restrictions like selling to buy.

      So far all their bets (risks) have been hedged, it's time to back up their talk.
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #585: Dec 29, 2012 09:02:54 pm
      That performance was shocking. It's one step forward and one step back, we're going nowhere.

      We get battered by Villa, smash Fulham and then get bullied by a boring Stoke side. It's not like we don't know what to expect against them.

      There are too many faggots in this side and they need toughening up. It's hard away games like this show us what this side is made of, unfortunately it looks like they are made of paper mache.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #586: Dec 29, 2012 09:04:25 pm
      Sorry to pick this part of your post out but i had to.

      Do you honestly think NESV are going to finance the total rebuild of a Premier League Squad?, they won't even release substantial funds for single players, let alone a squad.

      What makes me laugh is that NESV were more than happy to get raped on the Borini and Allen transfers, totalling over £25 million. Then we signed Yesil for a million and Assaidi for around two and a half.

      I see hints of Hicks and Gillett here, expecting a manager to win the Premier League on a shoestring. It's not going to happen.

      NESV are in a corner here, Rodgers start has been comparable to that of Project Owl's. A situation that NESV saw unacceptable when they brought the King in. Rodgers has made a worse start with a better set of players in reality.

      Now if they really think this man is the man to take us forward they have to back him heavily. Giving him breadcrumbs will just see us stagnate or regress, we most certainly won't progress with puny funding.

      I'm not asking them to spend £100 million, i'm asking them to spend between £40-50 million in the Summer of their own money, without restrictions like selling to buy.

      So far all their bets (risks) have been hedged, it's time to back up their talk.

      No HCS I don't think they will finance any of it themselves...the club itself will but they will not.
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #587: Dec 29, 2012 09:08:21 pm
      There are too many faggots in this side and they need toughening up.

      Aggerdoo
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #588: Dec 29, 2012 11:57:54 pm
      Really frustrating of our gutless defeat and Southampton today got a 3-3 draw with stoke and minutes away from winning.

      We need to focus less on possession.

      Arsenal scores 7 goals today against Newcastle but believe it or not , according to bbc sport, arsenal had only 45% possession. When on form, arsenal are lethal at counter attack and scoring goals.

      Celtic and Chelsea beat Barcelona with less than 30% possession - says it all.

      Maybe in the past it was true that more possession would increase your chances of winning games but I don't think it's entirely true now
      « Last Edit: Dec 30, 2012 12:15:24 am by nelioneil »
      Rush
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #589: Dec 30, 2012 08:49:47 pm
      Stoke who?
      andymac7565
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      Re: Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool - post match boxing
      Reply #590: Dec 31, 2012 09:31:18 am
      A Disgrace that performance a total disgrace
      Brendan needs to learn you can't win every game with the same game plan
      sometimes you have to draw ugly that's GOOD management.

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