Good enough?

Someone mentioned something about our players perhaps not being as good as we think they are. So I looked at it and did a little run down of how I think our players have performed since the season's start. 'Brilliant!' are those players that feature heavily in title winning sides or who have been 'brilliant' for many years, or those who can change games on their own. For example; Da Silva, Aguero, Rooney, Bale, Terry, Kompany, Lampard, Van Persie, Mata etc. The stand out players.

Reina Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!

Johnson Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Enrique Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Wisdom Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Agger Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Skrtel Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Carragher Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Coates Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!

Lucas Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Gerrard Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Allen Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Sahin Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Shelvey Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Henderson Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!

Downing Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Assaidi Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Sterling Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Suarez Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Suso Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
Cole Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!

It didn't take me long to come to those conclusions either, which for me, is that we just don't have the players, or the players are simply not performing like the should be.

And where (if we get them) would you say Sturridge and Ince fit into all of this?

What do you think, no doubt there will be differences in opinion, but I don't think it's far from the mark.

I would Skrtel to good and Lucas to good as well ( until he proves himself back up to his pre injury standard )

Assaidi to average

I would also take the youngsters into a new group - have great potential - ie Sterling , Suso and Wisdom

But it just highlights that our squad is just good - but not good enough - not enough great or brilliant players in the squad

Reina Average

Johnson  Brilliant!
Enrique  Good
Wisdom Average
Agger  Good
Skrtel Good
Carragher  Good
Coates Average

Lucas Average
Gerrard  Good
Allen Average
Sahin  Good,
Shelvey Average
Henderson Average

Downing Average
Assaidi Average
Sterling  Great
Suarez  Brilliant!
Suso Average
Cole Average

I look at it like this.

Outside of Reina, Johnson, Kelly, Skrtel, Agger, Lucas, Gerrard, Sahin, Coates and Suarez.

Gerrard and Sahin I'll put on the maybe's, Gerrard age related and Sahin, haven't seen enough of him in red to decide one way or another.

Youngsters I'll give a by as they are like cuprinol, what it says on the tin.

No one else is the squad is of similar quality.

Jones, Doni, Carra, Enrique, Allen, Shelvey, Henderson,  Assiadi, Borini, Downing, Cole etc are all distinctivley average footballers.

Not one of them would have walked into our 08-09 squad let alone our starting XI with the exception of Carra who did.

Average is being kind to some.

Reina - average
Jones - average

Kelly - good
Jonson - good (boss at left back, average at right back - levels out to good overall)
Wisdom - average
Agger - average
Skrtel - average
Coates - average
Carragher - average
Enrique - sh*t

Lucas - average
Allen - sh*t
Sahin - average
Gerrard - average
Shelvey - average
Henderson - average
Downing - sh*t
Cole - sh*t
Suso - average
Sterling - good
Assaidi - average

Borini - sh*t
Suarez - boss

Suarez is the only brilliant one.

Henderson, Sahin, Allen, Downing and Cole have been sh*te this season.

Sterling and Johnson have been good.

The rest have been average.

Average is being kind to some.

Reina - average
Jones - average

Kelly - good
Jonson - good (boss at left back, average at right back - levels out to good overall)
Wisdom - average
Agger - average
Skrtel - average
Coates - average
Carragher - average
Enrique - sh*t

Lucas - average
Allen - sh*t
Sahin - average
Gerrard - average
Shelvey - average
Henderson - average
Downing - sh*t
Cole - sh*t
Suso - average
Sterling - good
Assaidi - average

Borini - sh*t
Suarez - boss

Agree with all 'shits'. Perhaps maybe i would give Borini a little more time.
Again we had two disastrous transfer windows.
Downing,Henderson,Carrol(from winter window, but still) , Allen,Borini, Assaidi.
God with this many signings our team look like sh*t.
Signing Allen when we had problems infront of the goal is still a mystery to me. 

Depressing isn't it.

No not good enough.

How dare you rate Allen and Borini as sh*t! They were meant to improve us.

For me what makes Good players great or average players good... Are how they are used, so it still falls down on tactics and management for the most part..

Lets look at a couple of quick examples, teams and players..

Look at us on paper as has been done here against Stoke and Villa on paper.. Who has the better set of players? Without being blinkered id say us.. Is Lucas better than Whelan? Are Agger and Skrtel better than Shawcross and Huth? Is Suarez better than Walters? Is Gerrard better than N'Zonzi?
Are the same players better than Herd?, Clark?, Bannan?, Benteke?

Where would you rate their squads if you went through them? Below ours would be my guess?

So the way they are set up? The tactics used, the way the managers are getting the best out of them?

If our players and their players came on the market who would the top clubs in the world look at? Ours... So i dont believe they are worse than we think, i think they are suffering from the club having no stability and 4 different sets of tactics being used in 4 different seasons...

Players must take responsibility for their own performances but when the tactics they are plsying to are leaving us so open and so easy to beat then there is someone else to look at for me


A player example as well, Stewart Downing.. Now most of us would rate him average i would guess? Well how come at Villa he was managed so well he was player of the season twice in three years and an England regular? He had a manager getting the most from him..

Reina -above  average
Jones - average

Kelly - good
Johnson vgood
Wisdom - to young could be great
Agger - good
Skrtel - good
Coates - to young could be great
Carragher - average
Enrique - good

Lucas -good unfit tho
Allen - to young could be great
Sahin - not seen enough of
Gerrard - brilliant on day
Shelvey - average
Henderson -to young could be good
Downing - sh*t never want to see in lfc shirt
Cole - sh*t never want to see in lfc shirt
Suso -to young could be great
Sterling - to young could be great
Assaidi - not seen enough of

Borini - not seen enough of
Suarez - awesome

As PD says the players as a whole haven't performed to the level they are capable but it is up to the manager to send out the side in the best system and with the right tactics to get the best out of them.

I don't think this has happened often enough this season.

Of course individual performances haven't been good enough and players can play better but I still maintain we have a better squad of players than most teams in the league and should be doing much better.

As PD says the players as a whole haven't performed to the level they are capable but it is up to the manager to send out the side in the best system and with the right tactics to get the best out of them.

I don't think this has happened often enough this season.

Of course individual performances haven't been good enough and players can play better but I still maintain we have a better squad of players than most teams in the league and should be doing much better.

Where do you put our squad ?

I put it around the same as Everton currently

So i dont believe they are worse than we think

I do mate.

When people are telling me that Henderson and/or Shelvey are natural replacements for Gerrard, then I think our players are worse than people think.
When people are telling me that Enrique is the best left back in the league, then I think our players are worse than people think.
When people are telling me that Lucas and Sahin can be as good as Alonso and Mascherano, then I think our players are worse than people think.
When people are telling me that Allen is the nearest thing to Xavi, then I think our players are worse than people think.

They're just a few examples, but we've been guilty of overrating our own players for years. And underrating others just as much. Carlton Cole and Kenwyne Jones being berated non-stop by Liverpool fans whereas Skrtel and Agger have been hailed as the best partnership in the League, yet both Cole and Jones ran the best partnership in the League ragged.

Where do you put our squad ?

I put it around the same as Everton currently

Who are challenging for 4th no? Not sat in 10th

Therefore we are underachieving with this squad

I don't think we have a championship winning squad but I believe it's better than mid table rubbish

Who are challenging for 4th no? Not sat in 10th

Therefore we are underachieving with this squad

I don't think we have a championship winning squad but I believe it's better than mid table rubbish

Well I think currently Everton are over achieving and as the season goes on will drop down into the 6/7th place - that's the level also for us currently and where I think we will finish

Well I think currently Everton are over achieving and as the season goes on will drop down into the 6/7th place - that's the level also for us currently and where I think we will finish

The challenge for any manager is to get the absolute best from his playing staff..

We would agree Moyes is doing that..

Rodgers is not

The challenge for any manager is to get the absolute best from his playing staff..

We would agree Moyes is doing that..

Rodgers is not

Moyes is and Rodgers does need to get more

Not going to argue with that

When it all settles down come near the business end the BS will be our rivals for position. Lets hope we aren't behind them for a second season

What worries me, is the gaffer bought Borini, who struggled to do anything, then got injured, he bought Assaidi, who showed promise, but for some reason he didn't play him, and now he's out injured, he bought Sahin, and he is on the bench, he bought Allen, who has just spent the last two games on the bench.

So out of his four summer signings, none of them have made any sort of impact on the team.

Where do you put our squad ?

I put it around the same as Everton currently

As you know mate I think our squad is better than theirs but so we are not where I'd expect us to be.

Look we've played almost every team once and are sitting 10th.

Teams that we should be beating we are getting beat by so even with our difficult opening run of games I expected the results to pick up after six or seven games.

You and others might think it is good enough, that's fine, but I don't and nothing will convince me that our squad is at the level of the likes of Stoke and Swansea.

As you know mate I think our squad is better than theirs but so we are not where I'd expect us to be.

Look we've played almost every team once and are sitting 10th.

Teams that we should be beating we are getting beat by so even with our difficult opening run of games I expected the results to pick up after six or seven games.

You and others might think it is good enough, that's fine, but I don't and nothing will convince me that our squad is at the level of the likes of Stoke and Swansea.

I don't think it's good enough and come nowhere close to even suggest its good enough.

I know we shouldn't be tenth just like West Brom shouldn't be 6th

I was just wondering where you did consider the level of the squad to be ? Below the top 5 ? On par with Spurs ?

I don't think it's good enough and come nowhere close to even suggest its good enough.

I know we shouldn't be tenth just like West Brom shouldn't be 6th

I was just wondering where you did consider the level of the squad to be ? Below the top 5 ? On par with Spurs ?

Sorry to jump in but yes, on a level with Spurs and Everton.. Because of the lack of a couple of bodies possibly just below Spuds but with the squad we have with the right tactics challenging for top 4 along with those..

Steve Clarke has West Brom over achieving... Well done, that's his job... Under achieving is more concerning than over achieving.
How has Clarkey got them over achieving? By making them difficult to beat.