Trending Topics

      Next match: Betis v LFC [Friendly] Sat 27th Jul @ 12:30 am
      Acrisure Stadium

      Today is the 15th of June and on this date LFC's match record is P1 W1 D0 L0

      Good enough?

      Read 10048 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      Rush
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • Started Topic
      • 9,564 posts | 1549 
      • "If you are second, you are nothing."
      Good enough?
      Dec 29, 2012 03:00:21 pm
      Someone mentioned something about our players perhaps not being as good as we think they are. So I looked at it and did a little run down of how I think our players have performed since the season's start. 'Brilliant!' are those players that feature heavily in title winning sides or who have been 'brilliant' for many years, or those who can change games on their own. For example; Da Silva, Aguero, Rooney, Bale, Terry, Kompany, Lampard, Van Persie, Mata etc. The stand out players.

      Reina Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!

      Johnson Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Enrique Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Wisdom Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Agger Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Skrtel Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Carragher Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Coates Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!

      Lucas Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Gerrard Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Allen Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Sahin Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Shelvey Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Henderson Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!

      Downing Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Assaidi Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Sterling Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Suarez Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Suso Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!
      Cole Average, Good, Great, Brilliant!


      It didn't take me long to come to those conclusions either, which for me, is that we just don't have the players, or the players are simply not performing like the should be.

      And where (if we get them) would you say Sturridge and Ince fit into all of this?

      What do you think, no doubt there will be differences in opinion, but I don't think it's far from the mark.
      George Lucas
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 6,615 posts | 57 
      • JFT96
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #1: Dec 29, 2012 03:06:38 pm
      I would Skrtel to good and Lucas to good as well ( until he proves himself back up to his pre injury standard )

      Assaidi to average

      I would also take the youngsters into a new group - have great potential - ie Sterling , Suso and Wisdom

      But it just highlights that our squad is just good - but not good enough - not enough great or brilliant players in the squad
      indlfc
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,099 posts |
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #2: Dec 29, 2012 03:26:07 pm
      Reina Average

      Johnson  Brilliant!
      Enrique  Good
      Wisdom Average
      Agger  Good
      Skrtel Good
      Carragher  Good
      Coates Average

      Lucas Average
      Gerrard  Good
      Allen Average
      Sahin  Good,
      Shelvey Average
      Henderson Average

      Downing Average
      Assaidi Average
      Sterling  Great
      Suarez  Brilliant!
      Suso Average
      Cole Average
      RedLFCBlood
      • Guest
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #3: Dec 29, 2012 03:41:50 pm
      I look at it like this.

      Outside of Reina, Johnson, Kelly, Skrtel, Agger, Lucas, Gerrard, Sahin, Coates and Suarez.

      Gerrard and Sahin I'll put on the maybe's, Gerrard age related and Sahin, haven't seen enough of him in red to decide one way or another.

      Youngsters I'll give a by as they are like cuprinol, what it says on the tin.

      No one else is the squad is of similar quality.

      Jones, Doni, Carra, Enrique, Allen, Shelvey, Henderson,  Assiadi, Borini, Downing, Cole etc are all distinctivley average footballers.

      Not one of them would have walked into our 08-09 squad let alone our starting XI with the exception of Carra who did.
      dunlop liddell shankly
      • 2009 LFC quiz champion (now to be known as "Kate")
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 21,218 posts | 3393 
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #4: Dec 29, 2012 04:10:55 pm
      Average is being kind to some.

      Reina - average
      Jones - average

      Kelly - good
      Jonson - good (boss at left back, average at right back - levels out to good overall)
      Wisdom - average
      Agger - average
      Skrtel - average
      Coates - average
      Carragher - average
      Enrique - sh*t

      Lucas - average
      Allen - sh*t
      Sahin - average
      Gerrard - average
      Shelvey - average
      Henderson - average
      Downing - sh*t
      Cole - sh*t
      Suso - average
      Sterling - good
      Assaidi - average

      Borini - sh*t
      Suarez - boss
      chats
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 31,521 posts | 2874 
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #5: Dec 29, 2012 04:16:50 pm
      Suarez is the only brilliant one.

      Henderson, Sahin, Allen, Downing and Cole have been sh*te this season.

      Sterling and Johnson have been good.

      The rest have been average.
      indlfc
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,099 posts |
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #6: Dec 29, 2012 04:17:01 pm
      Average is being kind to some.

      Reina - average
      Jones - average

      Kelly - good
      Jonson - good (boss at left back, average at right back - levels out to good overall)
      Wisdom - average
      Agger - average
      Skrtel - average
      Coates - average
      Carragher - average
      Enrique - sh*t

      Lucas - average
      Allen - sh*t
      Sahin - average
      Gerrard - average
      Shelvey - average
      Henderson - average
      Downing - sh*t
      Cole - sh*t
      Suso - average
      Sterling - good
      Assaidi - average

      Borini - sh*t
      Suarez - boss
      Agree with all 'shits'. Perhaps maybe i would give Borini a little more time.
      Again we had two disastrous transfer windows.
      Downing,Henderson,Carrol(from winter window, but still) , Allen,Borini, Assaidi.
      God with this many signings our team look like sh*t.
      Signing Allen when we had problems infront of the goal is still a mystery to me. 
      Rush
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • Started Topic
      • 9,564 posts | 1549 
      • "If you are second, you are nothing."
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #7: Dec 29, 2012 04:54:05 pm
      Depressing isn't it.


      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,980 posts | 2264 
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #8: Dec 29, 2012 04:56:24 pm
      No not good enough.
      ruthcity
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 6,938 posts | 1480 
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #9: Dec 29, 2012 05:02:21 pm
      How dare you rate Allen and Borini as sh*t! They were meant to improve us. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #10: Dec 29, 2012 05:02:42 pm
      For me what makes Good players great or average players good... Are how they are used, so it still falls down on tactics and management for the most part..

      Lets look at a couple of quick examples, teams and players..

      Look at us on paper as has been done here against Stoke and Villa on paper.. Who has the better set of players? Without being blinkered id say us.. Is Lucas better than Whelan? Are Agger and Skrtel better than Shawcross and Huth? Is Suarez better than Walters? Is Gerrard better than N'Zonzi?
      Are the same players better than Herd?, Clark?, Bannan?, Benteke?

      Where would you rate their squads if you went through them? Below ours would be my guess?

      So the way they are set up? The tactics used, the way the managers are getting the best out of them?

      If our players and their players came on the market who would the top clubs in the world look at? Ours... So i dont believe they are worse than we think, i think they are suffering from the club having no stability and 4 different sets of tactics being used in 4 different seasons...

      Players must take responsibility for their own performances but when the tactics they are plsying to are leaving us so open and so easy to beat then there is someone else to look at for me


      A player example as well, Stewart Downing.. Now most of us would rate him average i would guess? Well how come at Villa he was managed so well he was player of the season twice in three years and an England regular? He had a manager getting the most from him..
      davepolo
      • Forum Ronnie Moran
      • ***

      • 382 posts | -1 
      • taught English by AZ, grAmmEr schooL fAiLure
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #11: Dec 29, 2012 05:09:52 pm
      Reina -above  average
      Jones - average

      Kelly - good
      Johnson vgood
      Wisdom - to young could be great
      Agger - good
      Skrtel - good
      Coates - to young could be great
      Carragher - average
      Enrique - good

      Lucas -good unfit tho
      Allen - to young could be great
      Sahin - not seen enough of
      Gerrard - brilliant on day
      Shelvey - average
      Henderson -to young could be good
      Downing - sh*t never want to see in lfc shirt
      Cole - sh*t never want to see in lfc shirt
      Suso -to young could be great
      Sterling - to young could be great
      Assaidi - not seen enough of

      Borini - not seen enough of
      Suarez - awesome
      srslfc
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 32,372 posts | 4973 
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #12: Dec 29, 2012 05:11:37 pm
      As PD says the players as a whole haven't performed to the level they are capable but it is up to the manager to send out the side in the best system and with the right tactics to get the best out of them.

      I don't think this has happened often enough this season.

      Of course individual performances haven't been good enough and players can play better but I still maintain we have a better squad of players than most teams in the league and should be doing much better.
      George Lucas
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 6,615 posts | 57 
      • JFT96
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #13: Dec 29, 2012 05:19:17 pm
      As PD says the players as a whole haven't performed to the level they are capable but it is up to the manager to send out the side in the best system and with the right tactics to get the best out of them.

      I don't think this has happened often enough this season.

      Of course individual performances haven't been good enough and players can play better but I still maintain we have a better squad of players than most teams in the league and should be doing much better.

      Where do you put our squad ?

      I put it around the same as Everton currently
      dunlop liddell shankly
      • 2009 LFC quiz champion (now to be known as "Kate")
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 21,218 posts | 3393 
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #14: Dec 29, 2012 05:19:41 pm
      So i dont believe they are worse than we think

      I do mate.

      When people are telling me that Henderson and/or Shelvey are natural replacements for Gerrard, then I think our players are worse than people think.
      When people are telling me that Enrique is the best left back in the league, then I think our players are worse than people think.
      When people are telling me that Lucas and Sahin can be as good as Alonso and Mascherano, then I think our players are worse than people think.
      When people are telling me that Allen is the nearest thing to Xavi, then I think our players are worse than people think.

      They're just a few examples, but we've been guilty of overrating our own players for years. And underrating others just as much. Carlton Cole and Kenwyne Jones being berated non-stop by Liverpool fans whereas Skrtel and Agger have been hailed as the best partnership in the League, yet both Cole and Jones ran the best partnership in the League ragged.
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #15: Dec 29, 2012 05:29:22 pm
      Where do you put our squad ?

      I put it around the same as Everton currently

      Who are challenging for 4th no? Not sat in 10th

      Therefore we are underachieving with this squad

      I don't think we have a championship winning squad but I believe it's better than mid table rubbish
      George Lucas
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 6,615 posts | 57 
      • JFT96
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #16: Dec 29, 2012 05:31:13 pm
      Who are challenging for 4th no? Not sat in 10th

      Therefore we are underachieving with this squad

      I don't think we have a championship winning squad but I believe it's better than mid table rubbish

      Well I think currently Everton are over achieving and as the season goes on will drop down into the 6/7th place - that's the level also for us currently and where I think we will finish
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #17: Dec 29, 2012 05:33:29 pm
      Well I think currently Everton are over achieving and as the season goes on will drop down into the 6/7th place - that's the level also for us currently and where I think we will finish

      The challenge for any manager is to get the absolute best from his playing staff..

      We would agree Moyes is doing that..

      Rodgers is not
      George Lucas
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 6,615 posts | 57 
      • JFT96
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #18: Dec 29, 2012 05:35:35 pm
      The challenge for any manager is to get the absolute best from his playing staff..

      We would agree Moyes is doing that..

      Rodgers is not

      Moyes is and Rodgers does need to get more

      Not going to argue with that

      When it all settles down come near the business end the BS will be our rivals for position. Lets hope we aren't behind them for a second season
      Rush
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • Started Topic
      • 9,564 posts | 1549 
      • "If you are second, you are nothing."
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #19: Dec 29, 2012 05:36:43 pm
      What worries me, is the gaffer bought Borini, who struggled to do anything, then got injured, he bought Assaidi, who showed promise, but for some reason he didn't play him, and now he's out injured, he bought Sahin, and he is on the bench, he bought Allen, who has just spent the last two games on the bench.

      So out of his four summer signings, none of them have made any sort of impact on the team.
      srslfc
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 32,372 posts | 4973 
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #20: Dec 29, 2012 05:51:55 pm
      Where do you put our squad ?

      I put it around the same as Everton currently

      As you know mate I think our squad is better than theirs but so we are not where I'd expect us to be.

      Look we've played almost every team once and are sitting 10th.

      Teams that we should be beating we are getting beat by so even with our difficult opening run of games I expected the results to pick up after six or seven games.

      You and others might think it is good enough, that's fine, but I don't and nothing will convince me that our squad is at the level of the likes of Stoke and Swansea.
      George Lucas
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 6,615 posts | 57 
      • JFT96
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #21: Dec 29, 2012 05:55:59 pm
      As you know mate I think our squad is better than theirs but so we are not where I'd expect us to be.

      Look we've played almost every team once and are sitting 10th.

      Teams that we should be beating we are getting beat by so even with our difficult opening run of games I expected the results to pick up after six or seven games.

      You and others might think it is good enough, that's fine, but I don't and nothing will convince me that our squad is at the level of the likes of Stoke and Swansea.

      I don't think it's good enough and come nowhere close to even suggest its good enough.

      I know we shouldn't be tenth just like West Brom shouldn't be 6th

      I was just wondering where you did consider the level of the squad to be ? Below the top 5 ? On par with Spurs ?
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Good enough?
      Reply #22: Dec 29, 2012 06:00:32 pm
      I don't think it's good enough and come nowhere close to even suggest its good enough.

      I know we shouldn't be tenth just like West Brom shouldn't be 6th

      I was just wondering where you did consider the level of the squad to be ? Below the top 5 ? On par with Spurs ?

      Sorry to jump in but yes, on a level with Spurs and Everton.. Because of the lack of a couple of bodies possibly just below Spuds but with the squad we have with the right tactics challenging for top 4 along with those..

      Steve Clarke has West Brom over achieving... Well done, that's his job... Under achieving is more concerning than over achieving.
      How has Clarkey got them over achieving? By making them difficult to beat.

      Quick Reply