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      General Transfer rumours/gossip thread

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      heimdall
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36950: Aug 09, 2018 01:57:14 pm
      Like I said, watch the sky sports video of Klopp explaining the basics of his system.
      At no point have I said any of this, so f**k off making sh*t up.


      I think he's confusing you with me which is scary on many levels ;-)
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36951: Aug 09, 2018 01:57:27 pm
      Yes it is pointless debating someone as blinkered and negative in their thinking as you are. You clearly hate the majority of our team, tell me is it a struggle getting up in the mornings?

      The main reason we played better in the second half of the season was the solidity that VVD provided, but perhaps he doesn't make the grade for you either. Te other reason is that we longer had to shoehorn Coutinho into the team

      For the record I think Coutinho was a luxury player for us, especially under Jürgen, he seemed very much like a square twatish peg which we tried to fit into a round hole. When Coutinho played well he was fantastic but very often he was anonymous in games, especially in games against bus parkers.

      Why do you repeatedly say these type of things when somebody disagrees with you? How old are you may I ask? 13?

      It's not even me disagreeing with you either. It's you following me around on here quoting me all the time.

      I hate our team?

      Ok, well i repeatedly defended Karius and repeatedly stated over and over I saw the potential in his game despite his obvious mental problems.

      I've said Trent has the potential to reach the highest level. I've said VVD is the best cb in the league if not in Europe. I've said Robbo is the best lb in the league.

      I know f**k all about Fabinho but I've repeatedly said how great Keita is and what a signing he is. I've stated several times I believe he will blow the league away.

      I've repeatedly praised Lallana and constantly said how he was key to our pressing game. Repeatedly praised ox too.

      Finally, I don't how know how many times I've said how great our front three are and I wouldn't swap them for anybody in the world.  Neymar? Nah. He's not doing the job sadio does for us.  Hazard? Nah, salah any day. Aguero? No thanks got Bobby.

      In fact, the only players I don't want in our 11 right now is henderson and Lovren. So yet again you're talking absolute sh*te. Both of those players as it happened have never been consistent with their performances for us and both of them are marmite, they are both split amongst our fan base at the very least 50-50 but probably more than that in my favour, so it's not just me either. Actually, if memory serves me correctly, you're not a Henderson fan either are you? So f**k off you hypocritical little sh*t.

      Just to make things clear right here's my stance on things.

      Best window we've had under FSG ownership. However that's not saying much because the previous windows have been tragic.  I'm disappointed that we're still going into the season a couple of players short of challenging city IN MY OPINION.  The money we've spent this summer has been long over due from the years of negative net spends, tv deals and of course our prize money from the CL.  So there's no reason why we cannot spend more money and address the problems we have.

      I think we're strong all over the pitch other than CB where i do not trust Lovren to be consistent enough throughout the season and I feel we lack creativity in midfield.  Shaqiri, Keita aren't number 10s. If, and it's a big if, Lallana can come into the team and play to the levels he did 2 seasons ago then I will be extremely happy with that and less concerned.

      I feel we still lack depth. We're still an injury or two away from being in trouble.

      Hopefully that clears things up for you if you're going to follow me around and quoting me saying I hate everything and everyone. I don't. I just don't say everything's perfect and wonderful when it isn't. Lad, you've just said there's hardly any difference between shaqiri and coutinho, thats how much sh*t you spout.

      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36952: Aug 09, 2018 01:59:50 pm
      Like I said, watch the sky sports video of Klopp explaining the basics of his system.
      At no point have I said any of this, so f**k off making sh*t up.

      I'm talking about creativity from the middle of the park. You said shaqiri can offer that. So I'm not making anything up. You said it.

      And you don't understand what klopps saying. We still have positions and we still have roles in the team you fool. It's not a free for all just because klopp likes players interchanging and who can be versatile  :lmao:
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36953: Aug 09, 2018 02:05:11 pm
      Like I said, watch the sky sports video of Klopp explaining the basics of his system.

      We are fluid alright, but it's more players moving out of position to press or occupy/attack the space and then have another player cover, but In the end, they will always get pulled back to their original position and play majority of the 90 mins there. It is pretty standard in football, especially in teams that have a lot of versatile players
      heimdall
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36954: Aug 09, 2018 02:07:13 pm
      Why do you repeatedly say these type of things when somebody disagrees with you? How old are you may I ask? 13?

      It's not even me disagreeing with you either. It's you following me around on here quoting me all the time.

      I hate our team?

      Ok, well i repeatedly defended Karius and repeatedly stated over and over I saw the potential in his game despite his obvious mental problems.

      I've said Trent has the potential to reach the highest level. I've said VVD is the best cb in the league if not in Europe. I've said Robbo is the best lb in the league.

      I know f**k all about Fabinho but I've repeatedly said how great Keita is and what a signing he is. I've stated several times I believe he will blow the league away.

      I've repeatedly praised Lallana and constantly said how he was key to our pressing game. Repeatedly praised ox too.

      Finally, I don't how know how many times I've said how great our front three are and I wouldn't swap them for anybody in the world.  Neymar? Nah. He's not doing the job sadio does for us.  Hazard? Nah, salah any day. Aguero? No thanks got Bobby.

      In fact, the only players I don't want in our 11 right now is henderson and Lovren. So yet again you're talking absolute sh*te. Both of those players as it happened have never been consistent with their performances for us and both of them are marmite, they are both split amongst our fan base at the very least 50-50 but probably more than that in my favour, so it's not just me either. Actually, if memory serves me correctly, you're not a Henderson fan either are you? So f**k off you hypocritical little sh*t.

      Just to make things clear right here's my stance on things.

      Best window we've had under FSG ownership. However that's not saying much because the previous windows have been tragic.  I'm disappointed that we're still going into the season a couple of players short of challenging city IN MY OPINION.  The money we've spent this summer has been long over due from the years of negative net spends, tv deals and of course our prize money from the CL.  So there's no reason why we cannot spend more money and address the problems we have.

      I think we're strong all over the pitch other than CB where i do not trust Lovren to be consistent enough throughout the season and I feel we lack creativity in midfield.  Shaqiri, Keita aren't number 10s. If, and it's a big if, Lallana can come into the team and play to the levels he did 2 seasons ago then I will be extremely happy with that and less concerned.

      I feel we still lack depth. We're still an injury or two away from being in trouble.

      Hopefully that clears things up for you if you're going to follow me around and quoting me saying I hate everything and everyone. I don't. I just don't say everything's perfect and wonderful when it isn't. Lad, you've just said there's hardly any difference between shaqiri and coutinho, thats how much sh*t you spout.



      LOL, triggered much :-) sorry

      OK fair enough, I'm glad that you are positive about the team, I am too, which is why I get a bit annoyed with you just dismissing Shaquiri, and I thought you did the same about Lallana as well, but perhaps I was mistaken on that. I honestly see those two as filling the Coutinho void in terms of providing creativity from midfield, along with Keita.

      I agree with you on Henderson, which is why I was delighted about us getting Fabinho, I think he will be immense for us and paper over the 1 weakish CB position, although I have high hopes for Nat Philips and/or Gomez, this is the season for one of them to stake a claim if Lovren's continues to frustrate. BTW I do still think Henderson is very useful to have in the squad and playing some games, especially ones where we perhaps need to be a bit more defensive.

      The main signing for me and the one I would have been happy with even if it had meant us not getting anyone else signed was Alisson, our weakness in goal has pissed me off for so many years now and finally looks to be solved for the foreseeable future.

      Anyway here's a to a great season and hopefully the league title.
      heimdall
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36955: Aug 09, 2018 02:09:11 pm
      We are fluid alright, but it's more players moving out of position to press or occupy/attack the space and then have another player cover, but In the end, they will always get pulled back to their original position and play majority of the 90 mins in their original position. It is pretty standard in football, especially in teams that have a lot of versatile players

      Yes but in that case did Phil not play more on the left and drift into the middle, that's how I seem to remember it, certainly most time he scored it was from the left hand side of the pitch wasn't it?
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36956: Aug 09, 2018 02:09:27 pm
      We are fluid alright, but it's more players moving out of position to press or occupy/attack the space and then have another player cover, but In the end, they will always get pulled back to their original position and play majority of the 90 mins in their original position. It is pretty standard in football, especially in teams that have a lot of versatile players

      We don't play with a fixed 10, that's the point.
      Several players occupy what some think of as the "traditional 10" space through the course of a match.

      I watched the interview again last night, Klopp doesn't hold with traditional roles, rather the player who finds himself in that space fulfills the role.
      Watch it again, you'll see what I mean.
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36957: Aug 09, 2018 02:11:48 pm
      I'm talking about creativity from the middle of the park. You said shaqiri can offer that. So I'm not making anything up. You said it.

      And you don't understand what klopps saying. We still have positions and we still have roles in the team you fool. It's not a free for all just because klopp likes players interchanging and who can be versatile  :lmao:

      I said he can unlock defenses.
      He can.

      No, it's not a free for all, it's a dynamic, fluid system that you want to stick labels on because that's the limit of your understanding.
      Billo
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36958: Aug 09, 2018 02:17:24 pm
      I'm talking about creativity from the middle of the park. You said shaqiri can offer that. So I'm not making anything up. You said it.

      And you don't understand what klopps saying. We still have positions and we still have roles in the team you fool. It's not a free for all just because klopp likes players interchanging and who can be versatile  :lmao:
      Yepp, Players still have positions but not in the traditional sense. it's called liquid formation. Players change positions with each other. To bring something new to the table for the defenders, and makes man marking hell of a difficult. It always tends to be the offensive players. Never seen defensive players do that.

      People tends to focus too much on how team line up on the paper. It's true that cou started as a lw but he always ended up in the middle of the park as a cam majority of the game.
      trebor12
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36959: Aug 09, 2018 02:19:55 pm
      No.10, No.10 that's all I'm hearing at the moment. Who played that role when Coutinho left, nobody because we adapted our game to play without him. Did we play some of the best football even without Coutinho or a No.10, yes we did and that was with some midfield players who let's face it would hardly set the world alight. So I'm not particularly bothered if we have No.10 type player or not. For me we've addressed areas where we needed addressing. The keeper situation and midfield. We now have a real sweeper keeper which vital to way we want to play. We've brought in midfielders that can now sit  in front of our defence if we need to see out a game if needs be. We've brought in Shaqiri who can cover anyone of our front 3 and yes you've guessed it play in that No.10 role if that is what the manager wants to play. I have to admit that I had my doubts when we signed him considering the time he had at Stoke but let's not forget he's going to be playing with some world class players at our club that can only showcase his talents. So I'm happy with window,  we can't sign every world class player in the world, it's not possible. We have improved the defence with VVD as well...it's looking good guys so let's be patient.
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36960: Aug 09, 2018 02:20:53 pm
      Yepp, Players still have positions but not in the traditional sense. it's called liquid formation. Players change positions with each other. To bring something new to the table for the defenders, and makes man marking hell of a difficult. It always tends to be the offensive players. Never seen defensive players do that.

      People tends to focus too much on how team line up on the paper. It's true that cou started as a lw but he always ended up in the middle of the park as a cam majority of the game.

      This is why I'm saying the focus on a "number 10" is irrelevant.
      The front 4 will interchange to the extent that whoever is occupying that space will do the role of a 10.
      Billo
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36961: Aug 09, 2018 02:21:45 pm
      As a Liverpool fan, I want to win the league and I hope that we bring in more players who increases our chances for winning the title.
      glad that we have some quality players in this window but I honestly can't understand the people who say it's enough and we should be happy with what we have. Not a dig at anybody. It's just mind baffling how much we as Liverpool fan think about economic side.
      I just want to win, I say get pullsic/fekir and a cb.
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36962: Aug 09, 2018 02:23:44 pm
      As a Liverpool fan, I want to win the league and I hope that we bring in more players who increases our chances for winning the title.
      glad that we have some quality players in this window but I honestly can't understand the people who say it's enough and we should be happy with what we have. Not a dig at anybody. It's just mind baffling how much we as Liverpool fan think about economic side.
      I just want to win, I say get pullsic/fekir and a cb.

      I think we're a bit short up front.
      Yes, we've got players who can come in, but there's a drop in standard compared to our first choices.
      Billo
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36963: Aug 09, 2018 02:25:22 pm
      This is why I'm saying the focus on a "number 10" is irrelevant.
      The front 4 will interchange to the extent that whoever is occupying that space will do the role of a 10.

      I'm not getting into your discussion, just read about what you guys wrote and remembering reading a article on 442 where they defined modern football vs old-school football and so on.
      they called the formation for liquid formation. Just thought I would share it.
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36964: Aug 09, 2018 02:26:48 pm
      I'm not getting into your discussion, just read about what you guys wrote and remembering reading a article on 442 where they defined modern football vs old-school football and so on.
      they called the formation for liquid formation. Just thought I would share it.

      And I just thought I'd reply to it.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36965: Aug 09, 2018 02:27:11 pm
      I said he can unlock defenses.
      He can.

      No, it's not a free for all, it's a dynamic, fluid system that you want to stick labels on because that's the limit of your understanding.

      Why would you just randomly say that then when I'm talking about creativity from the midfield? In particular from central positions?

      Salah can unlock defences. Bobby can. Mane can. What's your point? Why randomly say shaqiri?

      And i think it's your understanding actually. We still have a defence. We still have a midfield. We still have an attack. We still have players who are signed to do a specific role otherwise we would have 11 James Milners. At kick off, we still line up in a certain way. We still have a set up. We still have positions. Being versatile and interchanging is important to how we play but there are still roles and positions you donut. So we will have to agree to disagree on that won't we.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36966: Aug 09, 2018 02:28:19 pm
      I watched the interview again last night, Klopp doesn't hold with traditional roles, rather the player who finds himself in that space fulfills the role.
      Watch it again, you'll see what I mean.

      Yeah, because player B is covering, and when you have player A return, you will see player B revert back to his normal role.

      I have never seen a player in our team last season and this pre-season where he occupies a certain space that requires a certain role and stays in it until he is out of that area and into the next where it requires another role etc.

      I see fixed positions, but with the versatility we have, Klopp allows his players to attack the space or press more often knowing there is cover, but always have I seen Hendo revert back to the hub, Wijnaldum, Milner or Can back to the box-box role, Salah and Mane back to their wide areas etc.

      As for attacking, you will always see fluidity from other teams, not just ours, but eventually, they will always get pulled back to their original starting point.
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36967: Aug 09, 2018 02:33:11 pm
      Yeah, because player B is covering, and when you have player A return, you will see player B revert back to his normal role.

      I have never seen a player in our team last season and this pre-season where he occupies a certain space that requires a certain role and stays in it until he is out of that area and into the next where it requires another role etc.

      I see fixed positions, but with the versatility we have, Klopp allows his players to attack the space or press more often knowing there is cover, but always have I seen Hendo revert back to the hub, Wijnaldum, Milner or Can back to the box-box role, Salah and Mane back to their wide areas etc.

      That's about shape, rather than fixed positions though, and everything is about shape.

      Like the write up last year, in the tactics thread showing that players channeled the opposition to our left so that we could use Mane on the counter.

      Listen mate, if you don't want to believe Klopp's own words and instead go with what you think, that's cool, but I'll stick to what I heard from the man himself :) and that is that shape is important, not fixed positions.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36968: Aug 09, 2018 02:46:42 pm
      That's about shape, rather than fixed positions though, and everything is about shape.

      Like the write up last year, in the tactics thread showing that players channeled the opposition to our left so that we could use Mane on the counter.

      Listen mate, if you don't want to believe Klopp's own words and instead go with what you think, that's cool, but I'll stick to what I heard from the man himself :) and that is that shape is important, not fixed positions.

      Honestly, I am trying to understand this. If players don't have fixed positions, why do they always revert back to their original positions? Why not just have Wijnaldum or Milner the #8's stay in the #6 area even when Hendo/Fabinho has returned back to midfield? Why not have Salah stay on the left when he moves out there after an attack? etc etc
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36969: Aug 09, 2018 02:58:22 pm
      Honestly, I am trying to understand this. If players don't have fixed positions, why do they always revert back to their original positions? Why not just have Wijnaldum or Milner the #8's stay in the #6 area even when Hendo/Fabinho has returned back to midfield? Why not have Salah stay on the left when he moves out there after an attack? etc etc

      They don't though, do they.
      Salah doesn't start the match 15 yards ahead of Firminho.
      Henderson doesn't start the match between the 2 CB, and the FB don't start the match level with the AM.

      Starting positions are irrelevant, mostly, it's the shape that's important.

      I think of it this way; we have start positions, and positions for defending set pieces, that's pretty much as far as our rigidity goes.

      Now, after that, we have defensive shape, transition shape, attacking shape, pressing and counter pressing shape etc
      The players can take up various positions within that shape, but when we reset, they will revert back to starting positions either straight away or when play allows, but the key is maintaining shape rather than have players stick to their zone.
      Take Henderson as another example; by any measure, in a fixed system we would say he spends most of his time in a sweeper position, as the CB's split to provide wider cover because the FB's have pushed up, he drops between them, but is he a sweeper?

      With a rigid system, players will not stray from set positions, and the shape will always remain pretty much the same, which is where the idea of a "traditional 10" or whatever comes from.
      heimdall
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36970: Aug 09, 2018 03:02:01 pm
      As a Liverpool fan, I want to win the league and I hope that we bring in more players who increases our chances for winning the title.
      glad that we have some quality players in this window but I honestly can't understand the people who say it's enough and we should be happy with what we have. Not a dig at anybody. It's just mind baffling how much we as Liverpool fan think about economic side.
      I just want to win, I say get pullsic/fekir and a cb.

      Totally disagree, we must not leverage dangerous debt onto the club, I think we are fine in all positions now, could we be better yes of course but you can say that of any team, but do I think barring an injury nightmare that we can now mount a serious challenge, well yes I do.

      Lets look at the team squad and then you guys can pinpoint the weaknesses perhaps:

      GK:
      Alisson with Karius and 2 decent looking yongsters as backup - Think we are finally OK in this area now

      CB:
      VVD, one of the best in the world with Lovren, Matip, Gomez, Klavan and Nat Philips as #2. Could be better but I think we are ok

      FB:
      TAA, Robertson, Clyne, Moreno and Milner - Our first two are top notch and we have good backup as well

      DM:
      Fabinho and Henderson - Fabinho I think will be superb for us but Henderson and even Keita can fill in adequately so a problem area addressed and fixed.

      CM/AM:
      Keita, Lallana, Milner, Wijnaldum and Shaquiri with Ox to come back later this season hopefully - This area is also very strong now, much improve don last season.

      FW:
      Mane, Salah and Bobby - not much to say about this trio, they are simply superb. As backup we have Sturridge, Solanke and Ings plus Shaquiri canalso be used as a forward. This is the area where we look best, I'd honestly put out attack against anyone in the world.


      Overall the only 2 positions where we could be a bit stronger are CB and FW, but I really don't see it as a big issue now, because we have a genuine DM to help the CB's and we have a much more potent Midfield to complement the Attack.
      Billo
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36971: Aug 09, 2018 03:31:47 pm
      Totally disagree, we must not leverage dangerous debt onto the club, I think we are fine in all positions now, could we be better yes of course but you can say that of any team, but do I think barring an injury nightmare that we can now mount a serious challenge, well yes I do.

      Lets look at the team squad and then you guys can pinpoint the weaknesses perhaps:

      GK:
      Alisson with Karius and 2 decent looking yongsters as backup - Think we are finally OK in this area now

      CB:
      VVD, one of the best in the world with Lovren, Matip, Gomez, Klavan and Nat Philips as #2. Could be better but I think we are ok

      FB:
      TAA, Robertson, Clyne, Moreno and Milner - Our first two are top notch and we have good backup as well

      DM:
      Fabinho and Henderson - Fabinho I think will be superb for us but Henderson and even Keita can fill in adequately so a problem area addressed and fixed.

      CM/AM:
      Keita, Lallana, Milner, Wijnaldum and Shaquiri with Ox to come back later this season hopefully - This area is also very strong now, much improve don last season.

      FW:
      Mane, Salah and Bobby - not much to say about this trio, they are simply superb. As backup we have Sturridge, Solanke and Ings plus Shaquiri canalso be used as a forward. This is the area where we look best, I'd honestly put out attack against anyone in the world.


      Overall the only 2 positions where we could be a bit stronger are CB and FW, but I really don't see it as a big issue now, because we have a genuine DM to help the CB's and we have a much more potent Midfield to complement the Attack.

      Nevermind
      « Last Edit: Aug 09, 2018 03:42:53 pm by Billo »
      heimdall
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36972: Aug 09, 2018 04:13:09 pm

      LOL, solid contribution as always, tulling!

      How about pinpointing the areas you see as weakness, or did you not make it past the first sentence where I questioned the wisdom of piling on to much debt.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36973: Aug 09, 2018 04:18:49 pm
      Transfer deadline day in England has become a bit of a dud, hasn't it? My highlight is Godin playing Man United like a drum.

      I guess our business with outgoing will still go by the aug 31 date, to Euro clubs.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #36974: Aug 09, 2018 04:38:33 pm
      I think of it this way; we have start positions, and positions for defending set pieces, that's pretty much as far as our rigidity goes.

      Now, after that, we have defensive shape, transition shape, attacking shape, pressing and counter pressing shape etc
      The players can take up various positions within that shape, but when we reset, they will revert back to starting positions either straight away or when play allows, but the key is maintaining shape rather than have players stick to their zone.

      I get that, and pretty much how a lot of teams play (from what I seen last few seasons), from Napoli, Juventus, Real, Barca, City etc. But only difference is, we are usually utilizing more of our players when pressing/counter pressing and attacking.

      Salah doesn't start the match 15 yards ahead of Firminho.
      Henderson doesn't start the match between the 2 CB, and the FB don't start the match level with the AM.

      Take Henderson as another example; by any measure, in a fixed system we would say he spends most of his time in a sweeper position, as the CB's split to provide wider cover because the FB's have pushed up, he drops between them, but is he a sweeper?

      Ok, by fixed position, I meant more of the role played.  #6 for example, whether dropping between the CB's or playing further up and keeping the play ticking whilst being the main defensive cover etc. But that doesn't mean the 6 is rooted only to that, I get we will see him join up in attack or press if necessary.

      I watched the interview again last night, Klopp doesn't hold with traditional roles, rather the player who finds himself in that space fulfills the role.
      Watch it again, you'll see what I mean.

      Okay, I think I get how you are interrupting what Klopp said. You don't see players in fixed/traditional roles where they only play to their roles set, but rather, they are fluid because they have more freedom to venture off, whether pressing/counter pressing or moving into or attacking space when opportunity arises rather than players can play anywhere they want in the area they are playing in?

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