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      General Transfer rumours/gossip thread

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      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37425: Nov 19, 2018 05:26:03 pm
      I don’t think it’s that easy. It’s like saying ‘I think that lettuce actually tastes like salmon’ and then going ‘let’s agree to disagree’. No let’s agree you’re wrong.
      Thought I would look up and see where VVD was rated, just to see if I was maybe mistaken in what I believe, and was being to inflexible...

      This is what I found...

      Depending on where you look,One source rates VVD as the 3rd best in the world, Another rates him as the 8th best in the World (Both source named 10 centre backs) while two more sources did not name him at all ( Both those two named 20 Centre backs)...

      So really some think he is Among the Top ten in the world some don't even think he comes in the top twenty

      Guess maybe that lettuce was rapped around salmon after all
      Scotia
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37426: Nov 19, 2018 05:30:12 pm
      I don’t think it’s that easy. It’s like saying ‘I think that lettuce actually tastes like salmon’ and then going ‘let’s agree to disagree’. No let’s agree you’re wrong.

      What I find alarming at the moment are the number of outlandish comments made - for attention? - and then in face of overwhelming evidence stood by and defended.......

      Do we have a flat earth society branch?
      heimdall
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37427: Nov 19, 2018 05:53:57 pm
      I believe that we will have to just agree to disagree, But I stand by what I said

      Out of interest which defenders do you rate as better than VVD, I assume you can easily name the 10.
      heimdall
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37428: Nov 19, 2018 05:55:11 pm
      Thought I would look up and see where VVD was rated, just to see if I was maybe mistaken in what I believe, and was being to inflexible...

      This is what I found...

      Depending on where you look,One source rates VVD as the 3rd best in the world, Another rates him as the 8th best in the World (Both source named 10 centre backs) while two more sources did not name him at all ( Both those two named 20 Centre backs)...

      So really some think he is Among the Top ten in the world some don't even think he comes in the top twenty

      Guess maybe that lettuce was rapped around salmon after all

      What are the sources you are referring to, at this point I don't think we can just take your word for it, sorry.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37429: Nov 19, 2018 06:01:31 pm
      Thought I would look up and see where VVD was rated, just to see if I was maybe mistaken in what I believe, and was being to inflexible...

      This is what I found...

      Depending on where you look,One source rates VVD as the 3rd best in the world, Another rates him as the 8th best in the World (Both source named 10 centre backs) while two more sources did not name him at all ( Both those two named 20 Centre backs)...

      So really some think he is Among the Top ten in the world some don't even think he comes in the top twenty

      Guess maybe that lettuce was rapped around salmon after all
      Where do you rate VVD? 18th? 24th? etc...
      Who do you rate above him?
      There is possibly reasons you don't like him, whilst they aren't obvious to me it would still be interesting to know why you don't rate him.

      There used to be a Castrol Ranking but I cannot find it now.
      Squawka rates VVD as 3rd best defender in the world, I am not sure that is reliable because it rated Ramos as 2nd.
      I do think VVD is in the top 5 though.
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37430: Nov 19, 2018 06:07:06 pm
      What I find alarming at the moment are the number of outlandish comments made - for attention? - and then in face of overwhelming evidence stood by and defended.......

      Do we have a flat earth society branch?

      And to try and create a narrative, like "Reina wasn't very good, he had slow reflexes" along with the equally silly "Allison is slow to get down" as though gravity applies differently to some keepers.

      It's all very peculiar, especially this trying to create a narrative.
      I mean, at the end of the day, what is there to be gained.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37431: Nov 19, 2018 06:14:27 pm
      I've probably missed a couple out, but I'd say below defenders other than Ramos are around equal, but Van Dijk just edges it because he is younger which means his stamina will be a bit higher.

      Kompany - 32
      Godin - 32
      Chiellini - 34
      Pique - 31
      Ramos - 32
      Alderweireld - 29
      Van Dijk - 27
      Ribapuru
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37432: Nov 19, 2018 06:20:18 pm
      And to try and create a narrative, like "Reina wasn't very good, he had slow reflexes" along with the equally silly "Allison is slow to get down" as though gravity applies differently to some keepers.

      It's all very peculiar, especially this trying to create a narrative.
      I mean, at the end of the day, what is there to be gained.
      To be fair, he isn't alone on the Reina point.. there is a few people that didn't rate him. If I had a choice between Reina in his peak or Alisson now, I would chose Alisson now. I get why Reina is popular, nice loyal guy and a decent goalkeeper. He had strengths like distribution and commanded the area well, he read the game very well because he knew when to come off the line and when to stay... a lot of keepers really get this wrong... but his reflexes did let him down and it is an important part of goalkeeping. That is why we looked for an upgrade and at the time Mignolet had cat like reflexes at Sunderland...  but it was apparent very quickly he isn't good here, even though we tried with a lot of patience it is obvious why he is our number two now . Alisson on the other had is outstanding, he is as good in goal as VVD is in defence.
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37433: Nov 19, 2018 06:23:39 pm
      To be fair, he isn't alone on the Reina point.. there is a few people that didn't rate him. If I had a choice between Reina in his peak or Alisson now, I would chose Alisson now. I get why Reina is popular, nice loyal guy and a decent goalkeeper. He had strengths like distribution and commanded the area well, he read the game very well because he knew when to come off the line and when to stay... a lot of keepers really get this wrong... but his reflexes did let him down and it is an important part of goalkeeping. That is why we looked for an upgrade and at the time Mignolet had cat like reflexes at Sunderland...  but it was apparent very quickly he wasn't good here. Alisson on the other had is outstanding, he is as good in goal as VVD is in defence.

      No.
      We looked for a replacement because Reina was on big wages, and we had no European football to justify our huge wage bill which was (without European football) around 70% of turnover.
      As anyone with a shred of business sense knows, that is unsustainably high.

      Other players went out of the door for the same reason.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37434: Nov 19, 2018 06:30:58 pm
      No.
      We looked for a replacement because Reina was on big wages, and we had no European football to justify our huge wage bill which was (without European football) around 70% of turnover.
      As anyone with a shred of business sense knows, that is unsustainably high.

      Other players went out of the door for the same reason.
      Seems strange for a reason, because Mignolet was 9m + wages and we still had to pay some of Reina's wages when he went on loan the same season we signed Mignolet. If that was the reason then it was a total fail of a reason. If my memory serves me right, Reina was making a lot of blunders and there was a growing call to replace him.
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37435: Nov 19, 2018 06:33:44 pm
      Seems strange for a reason, because Mignolet was 9m + wages and we still had to pay some of Reina's wages when he went on loan the same season we signed Mignolet. If that was the reason then it was a total fail of a reason. If my memory serves me right, Reina was making a lot of blunders and there was a growing call to replace him.

      Again, completely wrong.
      You simply don't understand how a balance sheet works, nor do you understand amortisation.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37436: Nov 19, 2018 06:40:10 pm
      Again, completely wrong.
      You simply don't understand how a balance sheet works, nor do you understand amortisation.
      I have just checked.. I probably should have before previous post so all facts could have been included, it is funny you telling me completely wrong because it is you who are the most wrong on this... this is what happened.. unless Rodgers lied, below is the truth;

      Valdes was going to leave Barca and Reina was going to go replace him, so we lined up Mignolet ready... then Valdes decided to stay at Barca so we had two goalkeepers. Rodgers chosen to give Mignolet a chance because he was highly rated at that time. It was not about Wages.
      ConzS
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37437: Nov 19, 2018 06:41:30 pm
      I don’t think it’s that easy. It’s like saying ‘I think that lettuce actually tastes like salmon’ and then going ‘let’s agree to disagree’. No let’s agree you’re wrong.
      Lettuce agree to disagree.
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37438: Nov 19, 2018 06:48:33 pm
      I have just checked.. I probably should have before previous post so all facts could have been included, it is funny you telling me completely wrong because it is you who are the most wrong on this... this is what happened.. unless Rodgers lied, below is the truth;

      Valdes was going to leave Barca and Reina was going to go replace him, so we lined up Mignolet ready... then Valdes decided to stay at Barca so we had two goalkeepers. Rodgers chosen to give Mignolet a chance because he was highly rated at that time. It was not about Wages.

      Nonsense.
      Every man and his dog knows we were reducing the wage bill.
      It almost lead to protests at the ground.
      Rodgers was being a bit economical with the truth, as was KK before him, because it is not the managers job to slate the owners.

      Simple as that.
      You can try and spin it any way you like, but the bottom line was reducing the wage bill, because it was too high a percentage of turnover.
      Many of the players who left at the beginning of FSG's tenure were high earners, who were replaced with young players who could still do a job, but weren't on big money.
      The idea was always to bring in more performance related contracts, where players could make a lot of money in bonuses.

      I have to question your knowledge of the cub if you don't even know this.
      Then again, it probably isn't on wiki.
      Magillionare
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37439: Nov 19, 2018 07:00:43 pm
      Thought I would look up and see where VVD was rated, just to see if I was maybe mistaken in what I believe, and was being to inflexible...

      This is what I found...

      Depending on where you look,One source rates VVD as the 3rd best in the world, Another rates him as the 8th best in the World (Both source named 10 centre backs) while two more sources did not name him at all ( Both those two named 20 Centre backs)...

      So really some think he is Among the Top ten in the world some don't even think he comes in the top twenty

      Guess maybe that lettuce was rapped around salmon after all

      Post sources please. All of them.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37440: Nov 19, 2018 07:05:48 pm
      Nonsense.
      Every man and his dog knows we were reducing the wage bill.
      It almost lead to protests at the ground.
      Rodgers was being a bit economical with the truth, as was KK before him, because it is not the managers job to slate the owners.

      Simple as that.
      You can try and spin it any way you like, but the bottom line was reducing the wage bill, because it was too high a percentage of turnover.
      Many of the players who left at the beginning of FSG's tenure were high earners, who were replaced with young players who could still do a job, but weren't on big money.
      The idea was always to bring in more performance related contracts, where players could make a lot of money in bonuses.

      I have to question your knowledge of the cub if you don't even know this.
      Then again, it probably isn't on wiki.
      So Brendan Rodgers lied for no apparent reason, we spent a transfer fee.. added another player on the Wage bill whilst still paying Reina's Napoli wages... to reduce the wage bill? Yeah that is what we did because Swab said so on an internet forum.:f_tongueincheek:

      In the meantime, I should reduce me rent, I guess I will rent a second place and sublet the first whilst paying half the sublet... would that make sense? No...  there is no way we got Mignolet on the wage bill + transfer fee to loan a player out! ridiculous! utter trash.

      You really shouldn't embarrass yourself Swab, you questioned my knowledge on the club, but it is you knows very little. Here is my evidence.

      Rodgers has said he took the pre-emptive step of signing Mignolet having been informed by Reina's representatives to expect an offer from Barcelona. That did not materialise after Victor Valdés opted to stay with the Spanish champions for another season and Reina, while confirming his interest in Barcelona, insists he told Rodgers he wanted to sign a new contract at Liverpool in the absence of a return to Spain.

      https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jul/29/pepe-reina-disappointment-surprise-liverpool

      After this we needed to make a choice between Reina or Mignolet, Reina went on loan to Napoli so he was not totally off the wages regardless. We weren't going to have either as a #2. Reina had already shown he wanted to leave, so his future was unclear so Mignolet got the nod and Reina got loaned out.
      « Last Edit: Nov 19, 2018 07:17:44 pm by Ribapuru »
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37441: Nov 19, 2018 07:18:24 pm
      So Brendan Rodgers lied for no apparent reason, we spent a transfer fee.. added another player on the Wage bill whilst still paying Reina's Napoli wages... to reduce the wage bill? Yeah that is what we did because Swab said so on an internet forum.
       :f_tongueincheek:

      In the meantime, I should reduce me rent, I guess I will rent a second place and sublet the first whilst paying half the sublet... would that make sense? No...  there is no way we got Mignolet on the wage bill + transfer fee to loan a player out! ridiculous! utter trash.

      Dear god, the lack of knowledge is actually frightening.
      First off, BR said a lot of things which turned out to be spin, as did KK and Hodgson.

      The club finances were in a huge mess, players were sold to reduce the wage bill because at over 70% of turnover, and without European football, it was not sustainable.
      Clear so far?
      The club stated many times that we needed to reduce the wage bill, even saying; "we have players on champions league wages, with no champions league football, and we cannot afford for that to continue".
      Meireles, Maxi, Kuyt, Reina and others were all on big basic wages, and it needed to be reduced, as did the size of the squad.
      That's what happened, and your failure to find anything on wiki doesn't change that.

      Secondly, Mignolet came here on less than half Reina's wages.
      The fact that you don't know how a players fee is spread over the course of his initial contract is the problem.
      You think we just pay £X million, and it goes on the accounts like that.
      It doesn't.
      The payment is spread over a number of years (regardless of how much is paid up front).
      The players worth is "amortised" over a period of time. (it's a form of depreciation)
      So you have a player on £150,000 a week goes out, and a player on £50,000 comes in, the purchase price is spread over 5 years in the accounts, with the players "book worth" declining as the contract progresses.
      A difference of £100,000 a week is £5 million over 1 season, so in less than 2 seasons, the transfer price is recouped, then even with the new wages, we pay less money over the course of the contract.
      It's not f**king rocket science.

      For fucks sake, go and learn how contracts in football work before bothering me with this basic stuff.

      As for your edit, more pish.
      Reina knew he was going to be moved on, so his PR team went to work, as did the clubs.
      In other words, the same thing that happens with almost every f**king transfer.


      You really don't have a clue, do you.
      « Last Edit: Nov 19, 2018 07:23:13 pm by Swab »
      Scotia
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37442: Nov 19, 2018 07:21:50 pm
      So Brendan Rodgers lied for no apparent reason, we spent a transfer fee.. added another player on the Wage bill whilst still paying Reina's Napoli wages... to reduce the wage bill? Yeah that is what we did because Swab said so on an internet forum.:f_tongueincheek:

      In the meantime, I should reduce me rent, I guess I will rent a second place and sublet the first whilst paying half the sublet... would that make sense? No...  there is no way we got Mignolet on the wage bill + transfer fee to loan a player out! ridiculous! utter trash.

      You really shouldn't embarrass yourself Swab, you questioned my knowledge on the club, but it is you knows very little. Here is my evidence.

      Rodgers has said he took the pre-emptive step of signing Mignolet having been informed by Reina's representatives to expect an offer from Barcelona. That did not materialise after Victor Valdés opted to stay with the Spanish champions for another season and Reina, while confirming his interest in Barcelona, insists he told Rodgers he wanted to sign a new contract at Liverpool in the absence of a return to Spain.

      https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jul/29/pepe-reina-disappointment-surprise-liverpool

      After this we needed to make a choice between Reina or Mignolet, Reina went on loan to Napoli so he was not off totally off the wages regardless. We weren't going to have either as a #2.

      He left to reduce the wage bill Ribs - you posting articles with the club reps (including BR) stating the contrary doesn’t change that one iota......it does suggest you might be little naive though.......(not a criticism).

      Those 14 months from the end of the 2012 season to the closure of the window summer 2013 were not a high point - transparency wise - for FSG or the club and fans relationship.

      They were still coming to terms with the game / league and the markets and dealt with a number of situations really badly - Kenny / Pepe / even Dempsey/Carroll......

      Whether you think Pepe was on the slide or shouldn’t have hitched his skirt to Barca - no right minded football fan can dispute the Migs experiment was a disaster and a bad choice all round.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37443: Nov 19, 2018 07:23:28 pm
      Dear god, the lack of knowledge is actually frightening.
      First off, BR said a lot of things which turned out to be spin, as did KK and Hodgson.

      The club finances were in a huge mess, players were sold to reduce the wage bill because at over 70% of turnover, and without European football, it was not sustainable.
      Clear so far?
      The club stated many times that we needed to reduce the wage bill, even saying; "we have players on champions league wages, with no champions league football, and we cannot afford for that to continue".
      Meireles, Maxi, Kuyt, Reina and others were all on big basic wages, and it needed to be reduced, as did the size of the squad.
      That's what happened, and your failure to find anything on wiki doesn't change that.

      Secondly, Mignolet came here on less than half Reina's wages.
      The fact that you don't know how a players fee is spread over the course of his initial contract is the problem.
      You think we just pay £X million, and it goes on the accounts like that.
      It doesn't.
      The payment is spread over a number of years (regardless of how much is paid up front).
      The players worth is "amortised" over a period of time. (it's a form of depreciation)
      So you have a player on £150,000 a week goes out, and a player on £50,000 comes in, the purchase price is spread over 5 years in the accounts, with the players "book worth" declining as the contract progresses.
      A difference of £100,000 a week is £5 million over 1 season, so in less than 2 seasons, the transfer price is recouped, then even with the new wages, we pay less money over the course of the contract.
      It's not f**king rocket science.

      For fucks sake, go and learn how contracts in football work before bothering me with this basic stuff.
      Firstly, Reina was never on 150k, he was on 100k. Secondly, Liverpool paid some of his wages whilst he was on loan. Whilst it did trim the wage bill a little bit to loan out Reina rather than Mignolet, Reina would not have been loaned out had the manager thought he was a lot better than Mignolet, as you say "It's not f**king rocket science."
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37444: Nov 19, 2018 07:26:25 pm
      He left to reduce the wage bill Ribs - you posting articles with the club reps (including BR) stating the contrary doesn’t change that one iota......it does suggest you might be little naive though.......(not a criticism).

      Those 14 months from the end of the 2012 season to the closure of the window summer 2013 were not a high point - transparency wise - for FSG or the club and fans relationship.

      They were still coming to terms with the game / league and the markets and dealt with a number of situations really badly - Kenny / Pepe / even Dempsey/Carroll......

      Whether you think Pepe was on the slide or shouldn’t have hitched his skirt to Barca - no right minded football fan can dispute the Migs experiment was a disaster and a bad choice all round.

      I railed against it at the time, and still think highly incentivised contracts are a mistake for any but young players trying to force their way into the team or squad.

      I could see the need to reduce wages, and although I didn't like it, I understood it.
      The argument then goes back to FSG not putting their own money in.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37445: Nov 19, 2018 07:29:00 pm
      Out of interest which defenders do you rate as better than VVD, I assume you can easily name the 10.
      Shabs ask me near enough the same thing... I need not reply... Why..? because no matter who i say people are go to disagree so no point answering 
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37446: Nov 19, 2018 07:29:16 pm
      Firstly, Reina was never on 150k, he was on 100k. Secondly, Liverpool paid some of his wages whilst he was on loan. Whilst it did trim the wage bill a little bit to loan out Reina rather than Mignolet, Reina would not have been loaned out had the manager thought he was a lot better than Mignolet, as you say "It's not f**king rocket science."

      Whether it's 150k or 110k the same principles apply regarding accounting methods.

      As does the amortisation of Reina's "book worth".

      Seriously, you couldn't be more wrong, but I suspect you know that and are just wumming again.

      I'm done with this, so you can go and wum someone else.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37447: Nov 19, 2018 07:29:24 pm
      He left to reduce the wage bill Ribs - you posting articles with the club reps (including BR) stating the contrary doesn’t change that one iota......it does suggest you might be little naive though.......(not a criticism).

      Those 14 months from the end of the 2012 season to the closure of the window summer 2013 were not a high point - transparency wise - for FSG or the club and fans relationship.

      They were still coming to terms with the game / league and the markets and dealt with a number of situations really badly - Kenny / Pepe / even Dempsey/Carroll......

      Whether you think Pepe was on the slide or shouldn’t have hitched his skirt to Barca - no right minded football fan can dispute the Migs experiment was a disaster and a bad choice all round.
      In a sense it was trimming the wage bill, but I don't think many teams have 2 competing goalkeepers. Reina would not have been sold if Rodgers did not kneejerk are sign Mignolet based on would was likely to happen. If Reina was world class at the time like Alisson is now, he'd never have got loaned out to save a few quid, the fact is he was average around that time. FSG were tight but not stupid.
      Swab
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37448: Nov 19, 2018 07:30:05 pm
      Shabs ask me near enough the same thing... I need not reply... Why..? because no matter who i say people are go to disagree so no point answering

      In other words, you have no idea but don't want to get shot down again, so you're refusing to answer.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: General Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #37449: Nov 19, 2018 07:32:17 pm
      What are the sources you are referring to, at this point I don't think we can just take your word for it, sorry.

      Don't take my word Althought I have no reason to lie, look it up yourself
      « Last Edit: Nov 19, 2018 08:06:10 pm by The Real Donavan Ried »

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