General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread

Seriously? Arnold is not any faster than Clyne was/is, who also happens to be better defensively while Arnold is still prone to some growing pains. Lovren was here already when we were giving up 40-50 goals a season and Van Dijk is hardly known for his speed. At LB Robertson is certainly not faster than Moreno. Speed is a factor, but not the factor for our defense being as good as it was the 2nd half.

I am talking about high lines, it doesn't matter if Moreno or Clyne is quicker or not, the fact is, we have a quick back 4 that's capable of playing a high line. And as for VVD, he is quick, perhaps quicker than Lovren over 10+ yards.

Oh, and VVD is the biggest factor for our defensive being as good as it was 2nd half.

Instead of looking just at saves, look at the entire skillset and how it helps our overall defensive performances while also contributing to our offense through quick distribution and transition.

Look at the punching/catching the ball piece and see the huge difference between what Karius does in those plays vs. what Migs often used to do coming up and just flapping the ball. He came out confidently and either punched or caught the ball. We just saw a 60-80M rated Allison planted at his line in the first game of the World Cup giving up a tying goal. Also, at the 1-minute mark, we see Karius grab the ball and throw a dart out to midfield to start a counterattack.

His long passing is also pretty good and often hits his target or at the very least gives our player a 50/50 chance to get the ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLKb4TTsHo4

Ignoring the distribution part and of runs outside the box, everything else is what a standard keeper should be doing. I am almost certain Migs with the back 4 we had in the 2nd half would have given him confidence to be more assertive in catching and punching.

As for the off the line runs, how often were we troubled by them? From what I remember, we didn't have too much trouble (as shown on the yt vid), and could still get away with that more traditional keeper in our goal.

Allison is a sweeper keeper, I am talking about the not so sweeper keepers and how they could still work out in our team, so I don't know why you bought Alisson up

but these professional athletes have a mental fortitude that the regular person does not and that is partly why they are at that level.

Really? I know a couple of regular people who has done or been through worse but have turned their lives into a success. And I am sure there are millions of others .

Really? I know a couple of regular people who has done or been through worse but have turned their lives into a success. And I am sure there are millions of others .

Sure, people of all walks of life overcome things, but i think a professional athlete has the ability to quickly put things behind and go and perform the next day at a level that 99% of the population can't. Take a baseball closer, who may blow a game one night getting lit up without even getting an out, but the next day he's back out there and gets a 3-out save. IMO, they have an ability to "put it behind them" that many can't and is a reason, beyond the obvious talent, why they make it to that level.

One word.

Profit.

As opposed to deficit I guess. But another part of this is Klopp's philosophy of team-building and player development. He wants good players like every other manager, but I think he's looking for someone who fits into his philosophy, style of play and  definitely the team makeup. That must have some impact on which players, their stature (and thus their price tag) he chooses to bring in.

Jack Wilshere on a free, anyone?

Sure, people of all walks of life overcome things, but i think a professional athlete has the ability to quickly put things behind and go and perform the next day at a level that 99% of the population can't. Take a baseball closer, who may blow a game one night getting lit up without even getting an out, but the next day he's back out there and gets a 3-out save. IMO, they have an ability to "put it behind them" that many can't and is a reason, beyond the obvious talent, why they make it to that level.

The regular people working in retail, musicians, artists, programmers, teachers, engineers, doctors, solicitors, stockbrokers etc etc would have something to say about that But hey, your opinion I guess, and it's rather off topic.

The regular people working in retail, musicians, artists, programmers, teachers, engineers, doctors, solicitors, stockbrokers etc etc would have something to say about that But hey, your opinion I guess, and it's rather off topic.

Have no idea what this has to do with anything, but i'll leave it at that.

And it's not really off topic since it relates to Karius' ability to come back from his nightmare performance.

Jack Wilshere on a free, anyone?

Tidy player on the ball wilshere but no. Fits into the same mold as shaqiri for me. Thinks he's better than what he actually is, unfit, and not good enough for Liverpool even as backup.

I want the likes of Henderson, milner and Gini as our backup who are all a level above wilshere.

Don’t want to be rude BUT is there anyway that all the goalkeeper debates can be posted in the player threads or elsewhere?
This is supposed to be the General Transfer thread.
Everyone has great opinions but it would be nice to actually go to a topic and read info that is relevant to that thread.

Lastly, i had concerns about Karius' ability to recover from the CL game, but these professional athletes have a mental fortitude that the regular person does not, and that is partly why they are at that level. Plus, as i have seen so many other goalies make complete f**k ups as well, i figured if, for example, a player like Ter Stegen, who is viewed as a top goalie, can continue playing well after his share of f**k ups, so can Karius.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7QLFs-yaTg

Thing is that Ter Stegen is a world-class goalkeeper while Karius is not and this is with or without the silly mess-ups. In addition to that, I remember those mistake Stegen used to make and even tho I can't verify the ones in the video you linked, I'm pretty most of these if not all are from when he had just signed at Barca and he stopped doing those long time ago.

On the other hand, Karius, since joining, has never stopped with the suicidal decisions. In the second half of this season I thought he had got it under control and that he was starting to become a decent goalkeeper with a big margin of development ahead of him. However, from the quarter-final up to the final of the CL he reverted back to his more than poor decision making that puts the team and the work of the team at risk.

If Karius can stop with the nonsense and stick to saving goals and taking the secure decision with the ball at his hand/feet then yeah, he can become a good keeper. However, if he keeps on f******g up the way he does then its not going to matter how many saves he makes.

Almost killed us in the quarter-finals and effectively did so in the final just like he did in so many other games costing us either 2 or 3 points.

I understand your willingness to work on him, but I can only agree to that if we buy a GK and Karius is the back-up. He can try and work his way back up from there. Not deserving of a no.1 spot in a club like LFC atm.

Tidy player on the ball wilshere but no. Fits into the same mold as shaqiri for me. Thinks he's better than what he actually is, unfit, and not good enough for Liverpool even as backup.

I want the likes of Henderson, milner and Gini as our backup who are all a level above wilshere.

Good call. He also says he's leaving Arsenal because he wants to be sure to play each week, and that would not be his situation with us.

What an excellent post. Completely agree. Particularly the bit about having a Keeper who Instills confidence in the defenders in front of him as well as providing leadership and a vocal presence. So mush of that comes from how a keeper performs at set pieces and how they deal with the high ball. Karina always feels like a mistake waiting to happen when opposition teams have thrown bodies forward and ringed the keeper at set plays. And no stats will convince me otherwise. He punches the ball well at times but I've watched him literally bounce off of players (theirs and outs) trying to claim crosses.

It was interesting to read CTFCs critique of Ederson earlier in the thread. My oldest mate in the world is a season ticket holder at City and he says that Ederson was by far the most important signing they made in the summer and single biggest reason for their defensive improvements this year. We need a keeper who can effect a similar change on our own defence if we are serious about jumping into the titles race. It would be absolute folly to proceeed with Karius as the undisputed number 1. He is a couple of early season mistakes away from a nervous breakdown and the footballing equivalent of the yips. Frankly I'm amazed that his advocates can't see the peril in that?

Thanks. It's refreshing to see other fans can also recognise that Karius just doesn't seem to have the temperament to be a top keeper. His other attributes, in my opinion, just don't make up for the shortcomings. At some point a team must look past any positive attributes, and just get someone more reliable, who galvanises the defensive unit. Newcastle had to make that call with Darlow and Elliot. Man City did it with Joe Hart and Claudio Bravo. We must do it with Mignolet and Karius. How much better did Newcastle seem to feel down the stretch this year? How much better did Man City look this year compared to last?

West Ham are deciding not to stick by the Adrian/Hart show either. They recognise both keepers are capable of brilliance but just aren't reliable enough. So they're moving for Swansea's Fabianski. Nothing flash, but pretty damn reliable. I'd love for Karius to prove me wrong. If he took a long, hard look at his shortcomings, saw a sports psychologist, and worked hard on improving his temperament/demeanour and focus on the field, then he may just bounce back. But I have strong doubts. He seems like a nice guy. He seems like a bit of an introvert. He is not a boss. The goalie must develop into the boss.

Especially in a team of nice guys relying on a system. When individuals let down the system, we need characters to keep it together. We saw that breakdown clearly in the CL final. We lack alpha dogs. We lack leadership. The boys felt the game slipping away but none, not even VVD or Hendo, could shake us of our malaise. Does anyone reckon the likes of Ramos and Ronaldo would've have just pretty much succumbed with a whimper the way we did?

Guys, I have a genuine question I wanted to ask and pardon me if its a bit of a stupid one.

The question is why do we seem to be so restricted in the money we can spend each year compared to our league rivals. I understand teams like Chelsea and City basically have Arab money and Russian oil money, but if I think about a club like Utd, why is their such a gap between the type of money they can shell out and the money we can?

Isn't united a club like us in terms of ownership who makes its money from the selling of shirts, tickets, derived products, etc? I know that in recent years, Utd has been a club with more viewership and fans around the world because of their success, but what is it that draws this huge gap between us and them in terms of the money?

I'd appreciate it if somebody can explain to me the inner works that make us so restricted in terms of the players we can target and the money we can offer.

Edit: I ask this question because I appreciate the savvy scouting of players and basically buying players that none of the big spenders had their eye on and end up having a great player, but I also sometimes would like us to finish off one or two of our problems by simply having the money to buy an Oblak per example.   

 

Yep. Profit. Turnover.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/06/premier-league-finances-club-guide-2016-17

You can check out the brief rundown of PL finances from 16/17. You can see the kind of commercial revenue in particular the really big clubs bring in. We're just not at that level. Bringing a modern relevance to our brand again as consistent winners would go a long way towards catching up with sponsorship opportunities worldwide. No doubt we're also behind on investing in other assets that generate profit compared to the likes of Man Utd.

I really see from now on Man Utd and Man City being on one level, and Chelsea dropping back towards the pack of us, Arsenal, and Tottenham. I think our system isn't in need of big, expensive stars like other clubs. But yeah, it would be nice if in the next year or two, we could just, say, go buy Kante or Hazard from a Europa League Chelsea. Or De Bruyne if we start overtaking Man City (although obviously the club wouldn't let him go, even if he wanted to).

But to drop 100 mil on a player while still improving our depth would be nice. To start bringing in prospects like Monaco, Juventus, and Chelsea (and the Spanish duo, I guess), and selling those who don't quite excel enough for a profit.

Have faith. I think we'll start get there over the coming decade. Much rather gain income from a winning brand and developing players than oil dollars and stars, that's for sure.

Jack Wilshere on a free, anyone?

Personally, I could see him being a liability in our system. Much, much rather get William Carvalho from Sporting on a free if we don't end up having to pay any/much compensation. But yeah, I think Wilshere could forge out a reasonable remainder of his career at a club like Palace, if they can keep their players like Zaha, Van Aanholt, and Milivojevic. Probably end up on an inflated salary at a place like West Ham or Everton though haha.

Don’t want to be rude BUT is there anyway that all the goalkeeper debates can be posted in the player threads or elsewhere?
This is supposed to be the General Transfer thread.
Everyone has great opinions but it would be nice to actually go to a topic and read info that is relevant to that thread.

And sorry, that is partly my fault. My Nick Pope and Bernd Leno thread got transferred over here as I'm guessing I hadn't done enough to please moderators by the way I started it. Fair enough. That specific discussion should dissipate soon. Well, maybe. It's just the biggest issue with our team, so maybe not haha.

Not surprising, you seldom do when it doesn't agree wholeheartedly with what you believe.

Or I have better sh*t to do than arguing whether a keeper who can't save, kick, throw or catch is awful.

Ok.
Here we go
Karius screwed up in the final
Are there better keepers out there? Yes
Is karius ruined by the game in Kiev?
No
Can he learn from that experience and be a better keeper?
Yes
Have the club shown they can sign good players in the recent transfer windows?
Yes
Does Klopp back karius?
Well he had for the later part of last season so he may well do for the start of the next.
Right...that’s done with
How’s about we discuss karius stuff in the player thread and keep this to General Transfer Rumours.
Nice.
Move on.

I think it’s got to be Oblak or no one.

Not into taking punts on keepers anymore. So if no one world class is on our list I think Karius will be in the sticks next year

I think it’s got to be Oblak or no one.

Not into taking punts on keepers anymore. So if no one world class is on our list I think Karius will be in the sticks next year

Think it will be no one then mags by that ultimatum

I don't see us (or anyone beyond may be psg and city) triggering near on 90m for a keeper

I think it’s got to be Oblak or no one.

Not into taking punts on keepers anymore. So if no one world class is on our list I think Karius will be in the sticks next year

Don’t think we should be as hard-headed as that, mate.

There are plenty of keepers worthy of making us immediately better. We would be silly to ignore them.

speaking of Goalkeepers what happened to Danny Ward he did really well at Huddersfield and has disappeared since coming back here.
I haven't seen a goalkeeper yet who looks mistake free

Think it will be no one then mags by that ultimatum

I don't see us (or anyone beyond may be psg and city) triggering near on 90m for a keeper

Me neither.

And for what it's worth I think that call comes from Jürgen more than anyone else at the club.

I just don't think he sees any value in spending that much money on a keeper.

The most likely scenario is buying someone to replace Mignolet and to compete with Karius.

Me neither.

And for what it's worth I think that call comes from Jürgen more than anyone else at the club.

I just don't think he sees any value in spending that much money on a keeper.

The most likely scenario is buying someone to replace Mignolet and to compete with Karius.

I don't think it's a Jürgen thing as opposed to a football thing Si

I said yesterday Real Madrids top outlay on a keeper is €10m who is their 56th highest transfer
Barcelonas is €13m and their 47th highest transfer

I just don't see anyone other than city or psg who's money is limitless spending the near on £90m on a keeper

if Allison goes this summer I bet the fee is nearer the ederson fee last summer than the Oblak buy out