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      General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread

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      Swab
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43539: Jan 12, 2021 03:28:40 pm
      Given no one in the stands since March that number is actually pretty low. Good news.

      Not sure I'd describe it as good, because the knock on effects will last a while, but it could have been a lot worse.

      FYI, it's an estimate based on a survey by KPMG (who also happen to be our accountants).
      shawspeed
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43540: Jan 12, 2021 03:32:46 pm

      It does if the costs have dropped £40 million then there would be no net change to cashflow / profits
      « Last Edit: Jan 12, 2021 03:37:54 pm by shawspeed »
      Brian78
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43541: Jan 12, 2021 03:33:58 pm
      Loic Bade of Lens seems to be the latest centre half linked, another 20 year old.

      Probably media and agents stirring the pot but from what Ive seen he looks more assured than Bothman
      CT_LFC
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43542: Jan 12, 2021 03:43:59 pm
      Not sure I'd describe it as good, because the knock on effects will last a while, but it could have been a lot worse.

      FYI, it's an estimate based on a survey by KPMG (who also happen to be our accountants).

      Because it could have been a lot worse is that i say it's good news. Other teams like Arsenal had to recently borrow 120M.

      It's a really crappy situation for everyone (except corrupt teams like Chelsea and City) but it seems we have been able to weather the storm well given the circumstances.

      Not sure how much they have been able to offset the lost revenue with lower expenses so it's definitely a hit.
      Tayls
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43543: Jan 12, 2021 03:46:58 pm
      It does if the costs have dropped £40 million then there would be no net change to cashflow / profits

      What costs do you think have dropped?

      @Swab - where are your figures from? I've seen reports it's more like £100m in revenue loss.

      Swab
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43544: Jan 12, 2021 03:50:24 pm
      It does if the costs have dropped £40 million then there would be no net change to cashflow / profits

      It's a revenue forecast, costs are accounted for in it.
      Swab
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43545: Jan 12, 2021 03:51:30 pm
      What costs do you think have dropped?

      @Swab - where are your figures from? I've seen reports it's more like £100m in revenue loss.

      KPMG estimate after looking at a number of clubs across Europe.

      Pretty sure there was an Echo article about it as well.
      shawspeed
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43546: Jan 12, 2021 03:52:12 pm
      What costs do you think have dropped?

      @Swab - where are your figures from? I've seen reports it's more like £100m in revenue loss.



      I don't think, it's pretty obvious, matchday staff costs, matchday catering supply costs, policing costs, cleaning costs, untility costs, insurance costs etc etc
      shawspeed
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43547: Jan 12, 2021 03:57:07 pm
      It's a revenue forecast, costs are accounted for in it.

      And there was me thinking revenue was the income derived from sales etc.

      So a forecast reduction of £40million profit then?

      What round of the Champions League have they forecast us reaching and will we win the premier league again this season?
      CT_LFC
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43548: Jan 12, 2021 04:05:27 pm
      It's a revenue forecast, costs are accounted for in it.

      revenue and expenses are different things. So is the 40M you mentioned a profit loss estimate, then?
      bmck
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43549: Jan 12, 2021 04:05:29 pm
      Could even look for a loan. Don't need another VVD. Or a Koulibaly. Just someone who's better than Rhys/Nat. The worlds a big place, am still hopeful...
      Swab
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43550: Jan 12, 2021 04:09:09 pm
      And there was me thinking revenue was the income derived from sales etc.

      So a forecast reduction of £40million profit then?

      What round of the Champions League have they forecast us reaching and will we win the premier league again this season?

      revenue stream.

      My god, it's not F***ing rocket science.
      Swab
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43551: Jan 12, 2021 04:09:48 pm
      Could even look for a loan. Don't need another VVD. Or a Koulibaly. Just someone who's better than Rhys/Nat. The worlds a big place, am still hopeful...

      Could get another interest free FSG loan ;)
      Swab
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43552: Jan 12, 2021 04:10:54 pm
      revenue and expenses are different things. So is the 40M you mentioned a profit loss estimate, then?

      No, again, it's the forecast revenue stream, which already takes expenses into account.
      shawspeed
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43553: Jan 12, 2021 04:17:24 pm
      No, again, it's the forecast revenue stream, which already takes expenses into account.

      This is not making any sense, if it takes revenue (income) and expenses (costs) into account then surely the difference between one and the other is gross profit?
      FL Red
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43554: Jan 12, 2021 04:26:18 pm
      It's a revenue forecast, costs are accounted for in it.

      No they aren’t. Revenue is income in the most simple sense. Profit is what takes costs and revenue into account.

      And if you don’t believe me (which you won’t)

      Revenue is the income generated from normal business operations and includes discounts and deductions for returned merchandise. It is the top line or gross income figure from which costs are subtracted to determine net income.Oct 1, 2020
      Investopedia › terms › revenue
      Revenue Definition - Investopedia
      Swab
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43555: Jan 12, 2021 04:27:58 pm
      This is not making any sense, if it takes revenue (income) and expenses (costs) into account then surely the difference between one and the other is gross profit?

      It makes perfect sense if you understand what the word "streams" means.

      It's not a P/L, it's not a balance sheet, it's not a full set of signed off, complete and certified accounts, it is a forecast estimate of how revenue streams have been affected by covid.

      This is really simple stuff, with the key word here, being "streams".


      shawspeed
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43556: Jan 12, 2021 04:35:45 pm
      It makes perfect sense if you understand what the word "streams" means.

      It's not a P/L, it's not a balance sheet, it's not a full set of signed off, complete and certified accounts, it is a forecast estimate of how revenue streams have been affected by covid.

      This is really simple stuff, with the key word here, being "streams".




      Please enlighten us as it seems quite a lot of people myself includedare obviously very simple and not rocket scientists.

      What exactly does stream refer to in this instance? what position in the PL has been used to prduce the stream, what CL round do we get to?, how many matches will be televised? what players will we be selling in January and the summer?
      Swab
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43557: Jan 12, 2021 04:40:39 pm
      Please enlighten us as it seems quite a lot of people myself includedare obviously very simple and not rocket scientists.

      What exactly does stream refer to in this instance? what position in the PL has been used to prduce the stream, what CL round do we get to?, how many matches will be televised? what players will we be selling in January and the summer?

      P/L = profit and loss.

      It's not official, as repeatedly F***ing stated, it's a forecast estimate by KPMG (the accountancy firm) after looking at a number of clubs across Europe.

      I've got better things to do than walk people through a forecast estimate, so if you want to know more, crack on and do it yourself.

      Or take an accountancy degree, join KPMG and ask their methodology.

      Either way, I'm out.
      No time for pedeants who think wumming is clever.

      Tayls
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43558: Jan 12, 2021 04:47:28 pm
      Have to agree with FL here Swab, revenue streams, in this context and as far as I understand them, do not account for expenditure. I get what you're saying about the forecast estimate by KPMG having read the report on their website, but that still does not account for costings, as one of the footnotes on the report says. We've not released the detailed financial information yet, so as I understand it KPMG are estimating our loss of revenue, due the loss of various 'streams' of revenue (matchday income, broadcasting rebate etc.).

      With that said, in reference to what shawspeed has posted about in regards to costs equalling loss of revenue, I don't think this is possible. Any potential costs cut through loss of matchday staff, or policing, are going to be nowhere near the total loss in revenue. We will still be paying people to upkeep the stadium, and although maybe we save some money by not providing catering services for example, that is never going to outweigh the lost income from matchday sales, tickets etc.

      shawspeed
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43559: Jan 12, 2021 04:50:22 pm
      P/L = profit and loss.

      It's not official, as repeatedly f**king stated, it's a forecast estimate by KPMG (the accountancy firm) after looking at a number of clubs across Europe.

      I've got better things to do than walk people through a forecast estimate, so if you want to know more, crack on and do it yourself.

      Or take an accountancy degree, join KPMG and ask their methodology.

      Either way, I'm out.
      No time for pedeants who think wumming is clever.



      Of course it's a forecast what else could it be.

      I have no need to look up what forecasts are I produce them daily for multi million pound construction projects.

      What I am questioning is what that forecast includes, what is forecast to be reduced by £40 million?

      You are saying that is is a revenue forecast which includes forecast costs therefore at the end of this season we are forecast to have £40 million less than last season.

      So if it's revenue including cost then it therefore relates to £40 million less gross profit.

      So in essence it forecasts a small profit at the end of this season.

      I am still intrigued as to what basis they have guessed the income will be as it must be based on forecasted final league position, champions league results, when supporters will be allowed at Anfield agin etc etc
      shawspeed
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43560: Jan 12, 2021 04:52:46 pm
      Have to agree with FL here Swab, revenue streams, in this context and as far as I understand them, do not account for expenditure. I get what you're saying about the forecast estimate by KPMG having read the report on their website, but that still does not account for costings, as one of the footnotes on the report says. We've not released the detailed financial information yet, so as I understand it KPMG are estimating our loss of revenue, due the loss of various 'streams' of revenue (matchday income, broadcasting rebate etc.).

      With that said, in reference to what shawspeed has posted about in regards to costs equalling loss of revenue, I don't think this is possible. Any potential costs cut through loss of matchday staff, or policing, are going to be nowhere near the total loss in revenue. We will still be paying people to upkeep the stadium, and although maybe we save some money by not providing catering services for example, that is never going to outweigh the lost income from matchday sales, tickets etc.



      I totally agree that reduction in costs will nowhere near cover the lost revenue however it will offset a part of it and to be honest given the amount of zero's used when any football finances are quoted 40 million is a relatively small number.

      BTW at no time did I say reduction in costs would equal lost revenue.
      Swab
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      Re: General LFC Transfer rumours/gossip thread
      Reply #43561: Jan 12, 2021 05:00:11 pm
      Have to agree with FL here Swab, revenue streams, in this context and as far as I understand them, do not account for expenditure. I get what you're saying about the forecast estimate by KPMG having read the report on their website, but that still does not account for costings, as one of the footnotes on the report says. We've not released the detailed financial information yet, so as I understand it KPMG are estimating our loss of revenue, due the loss of various 'streams' of revenue (matchday income, broadcasting rebate etc.).

      With that said, in reference to what shawspeed has posted about in regards to costs equalling loss of revenue, I don't think this is possible. Any potential costs cut through loss of matchday staff, or policing, are going to be nowhere near the total loss in revenue. We will still be paying people to upkeep the stadium, and although maybe we save some money by not providing catering services for example, that is never going to outweigh the lost income from matchday sales, tickets etc.

      Every single time we've done revenue stream forecasts, for 40 years, they have included estimated expenditure as well as estimated income.
      Every time.

      Otherwise, it's just a revenue forecast, an entirely different thing.

      Look you lot can try and pick the bones out of it if you want, I don't really give a F**k.

      Every man and his dog know we're taking a financial hit compared to non covid times, and that it will impact transfers, and possibly wages.
      If you want to perform an autopsy or (others) try to engage in puerile nonsense, crack on.
      It's not worth my time or effort.

      A simple point turns into a F***ing major exercise because some daft tw*ts want to know the ins and outs of a ducks arse.

      Have fun.

      (BTW Tayls, not aimed at you)

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