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      1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)

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      AZPatriot
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      1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Jan 01, 2013 10:03:42 pm
      Thought it might be an idea to do a quick half-season critique on where we were, where things are leading. This is for the 1st half of the season only please, lets not bring up issues (good or bad) prior.

      Ownership (FSG)

      - Did more harm then good on that final day of the summer window, followed by cringe-worthy comments from JH

      - Guess it is a positive move regarding the Stadia situation, however so little detail (like everything else) it is hard to get excited.

      Summary: Can't see them giving us much if any upside. To be honest big investment is needed but its not going to come; as I have mentioned several time they will not bleed the club but they are not going to spend to get it back to where it was. FFP will need to be strictly enforced for the FSG idea to work, if it is not then LFC will look just like FSG plain white bread, nothing special.

      Management (Brendan Rodgers & Staff

      - I find BR well spoken and knowledgeable, I think he truly cares about the club and will do whatever he can to make it succeed in the end. I think him and his staff are quality people that will see things thru and give 100% to the club.

      - Academy seems to be in fine shape and the promotion of Rodolfo is probably the best "management" story of the year so far.

      -I find it very positive that Brendan is not afraid to use youth or to sit someone down if they are underwhelming. I can see what he wants to do and understand he has blueprint for how he wants to accomplish it ( I actually really appreciate this, and I do believe if allowed the time and resources he could make it work.) My one complaint here is I think Assadi (though injured a bit) and a few others should be playing more and Downing/Cole too much but I don't get paid to make that decision.

      - It might be wise on Brendan's part to tone down the "fabulous & brilliant" lines just a bit. It would appear to me that he is over-compensating for how Roy used to handle it and is a little to friendly with the press where Kenny may not of been. Sometimes it feels like he has been reminded to do this by someone higher-up in the food chain.

      - As others have mentioned perhaps (I say perhaps) he needs to be more flexible with his "system". there is inconsistency with the performance no-doubt about that. Seems this issue is of 2 different camps; those that say we have a good squad and its on the manager, others saying we are not as strong as we think and the manager does not play on the pitch; I think the answer is somewhere in the middle.

      - Results are a mixed bag...low point total but a strange year where we still find ourselves 5-10 points out of being right in there. Out of the league cup but winning our group for Europa. Poor at times, brilliant at others; still I do give some credit when we think all new management, a brutal opening 5 matches, having really only one striker...we are not out of this yet.

      Summary: A mixed bag for all the reasons given above, in the end supporters have patience as long as there is winning happening, BR is going to have to learn this and push himself and the club to do better than it has. I still believe he will be a fine manager and don't think he is naive or too small for this club; growing pains perhaps, but out of his depth no.

      Players 3up and 3 down

      UP

      Luis Suarez: Top 10 player in the world now, carrying this club on his back; really don't know how much more we could ask of one player

      Raheem Sterling: Really stepped in and earned that first pro contract. Raheem still has a lot of work to do but one of the brightest stories of the year.

      Jose Enrique: Began the season on a downward track and really turned it around, pity for the recent injury but proving to be a very good player for us.

      Down

      Nuri Sahin: Despite a few flashes of brilliance it really has not worked out well for him here so far has it?

      Steven Gerrard: Honestly some days he looks like he cares, others days can't be arsed. Its not a knock but age is catching up there is little doubt about that.

      Skrtel/Agger: Once again considering going into the season as the bedrock of the squad this pairing has been less then brilliant at times.


      Special Mention's: I think Hendo, Wisdom and Johnson have improved (well Glen just gets better) and Allen, Shelvey & Pepe have been average at best.

      Will not mention Cole or Downing as you can't really go anywhere but up after being at rock bottom.



      Conclusion

      Would be nice to see some balls from the owners in getting some difference makers with the squad, I think Sturridge will help and hopefully Borini can come back stronger. I don't think we are out of this yet and I expect a stronger 2nd half however and finishing somewhere between 4th -7th place in the league and a good showing in Europa.


       

      « Last Edit: Jan 01, 2013 10:42:59 pm by AZPatriot »
      s@int
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #1: Jan 01, 2013 10:52:00 pm
      For me it has been a big disappointment so far. While I didn't expect a title challenge after the poor summer, I did expect to have seen signs that we were moving forward by now.

      For me we seem to be more confused than ever. The defence that has been the bedrock of the team now looks shaky and always liable to conceed a goal. The midfield where I expected Brendan's system to excell looks fragile and easily bullied. Upfront we have Suarez fighting a one man battle against opposing defenses. Looking to change things from the bench hasn't really been much of an option as it's been more like for like rather than players bringing different qualities to the fight.

      Brendan in all honesty hasn't convinced me so far that he is the answer (or has the answers). Obviously he needs time, backing from the owners and more belief and fight from the players, but he really needs to show he is more than a mouthpiece for the owners and has more than just psychological tricks up his sleeve.

      Like last season it seems as if the players feel their places are safe no matter how they perform and only seem to perform when they feel like it. We need genuine competition for places if we are to move forward, but without money the players will continue to be picked more on reputation than because they have earned it.

      Our owners seem determined to be an embarressment. The Dempsey debacle in the summer was bad, but if the rumour that we are looking to return Sahin from loan so we can afford to buy Tom Ince is true ...... we may as well take up tiddly winks. (The saddest thing is that I half believe it! )
      shabbadoo
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #2: Jan 01, 2013 11:00:19 pm
      Two words.

      Piss Poor.

      From Owners ,Manager & Players.
      s@int
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #3: Jan 01, 2013 11:11:43 pm
      Two words.

      Piss Poor.

      From Owners ,Manager & Players.

      Summed it up nicely Shabs
      kelvo
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #4: Jan 01, 2013 11:14:07 pm
      Jury is out on all three for me.

      The owners fu**ed up big style in the summer and have a lot to prove. You dont sack a club legend, install what you believe is a new young hope to take the club on and then dont back them.

      Brendan has done OK, like the way he carries himself in interviews etc but at the end of the day its all about results and regardless of lack of striking options or whatever they just havent been good enough so far. Massive results improvement required in the 2nd half of the season.

      Luis has been excellent and Sterling is making rapid steps to becoming something like the player we all hoped he would be. In recent weeks Jose Enrique has looked back to his best and Stevie's form has improved drastically since Lucas returned. The rest have to improve.
      bigears
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #5: Jan 01, 2013 11:26:57 pm
       :stress_h4h: Somes it up really.
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #6: Jan 01, 2013 11:46:02 pm
      Thought that the suits made a complete balls over the Dempsey situation in the summer.

      Think Rodgers made a complete balls of the transfer window, when taking over he'd have been more than aware of the situation with Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy and he certainly knew Carroll wasn't in his plans.

      That was a massive percentage of the goals gone from a squad that struggled with goals in the previous season.

      So for me that was the area that needed first and foremost, but he brought mainly midfielders in and we've suffered and had to rely on youth because of that.

      Tactically I think Rodgers has been naïve, he stated himself that we were lacking the players to play his system, then went about showing us exactly why over the course of the season.

      All in all its been poor from both the suits and Rodgers, but its a new year and a new start with a transfer window where all get a chance to redeem themselves.

      Over to them now, this could make or break our season as teams are starting to find some form in what's been an indifferent season for a lot of clubs.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #7: Jan 02, 2013 12:02:57 am
      Thought that the suits made a complete balls over the Dempsey situation in the summer.

      Think Rodgers made a complete balls of the transfer window, when taking over he'd have been more than aware of the situation with Maxi, Kuyt and Bellamy and he certainly knew Carroll wasn't in his plans.

      That was a massive percentage of the goals gone from a squad that struggled with goals in the previous season.

      So for me that was the area that needed first and foremost, but he brought mainly midfielders in and we've suffered and had to rely on youth because of that.

      Tactically I think Rodgers has been naïve, he stated himself that we were lacking the players to play his system, then went about showing us exactly why over the course of the season.

      All in all its been poor from both the suits and Rodgers, but its a new year and a new start with a transfer window where all get a chance to redeem themselves.

      Over to them now, this could make or break our season as teams are starting to find some form in what's been an indifferent season for a lot of clubs.


      Don't disagree Daz on any of this except the goal scoring....last 19 matches of last season we scored 23 goals by my count, first 19 matches we have scored 30...this is league only of course so actually though its not much of an improvement but we have scored 35% more goals the last 6 months of the year then we did the first.

      Not saying of course that its a good number but still its not like we went massively backwards, or it could be a case of just trying to reach for something/anything on my part.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #8: Jan 02, 2013 12:15:31 am
      Why do some bring Kenny's last 19 games in charge of his final season into the debate?.

      At this point we have gone backwards.

      League position.

      Out of defending our Cup.

      Looking less likely to secure European football of the first time asking by our new manager.
      chats
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #9: Jan 02, 2013 12:16:58 am
      Owners - sh*te so far, lets see what happens this month though.

      Management - sh*te so far, needs time for Brendan to get his players in though. Needs to be a significant improvement in the second half of the season.

      Players - Bar Suarez, sh*te. Nice to see some young players coming through though.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #10: Jan 02, 2013 12:20:13 am
      Why do some bring Kenny's last 19 games in charge of his final season into the debate?.

      At this point we have gone backwards.

      League position.

      Out of defending our Cup.

      Looking less likely to secure European football of the first time asking by our new manager.

      Why can't we bring in the last half of 11/12 versus the first half of 12/13 is that some type of crime?

      Had nothing to do with Kenny at all...why do some people bring up how big Brendan is failing when there is half a season left?

      You can compare the 1st 19 of last season or I can compare the last 19...which is fine of course because numbers are easy to manipulate, I choose to use the last 19 because they are closest in time-frames to this seasons first 19.
      s@int
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #11: Jan 02, 2013 01:06:39 am
      Why can't we bring in the last half of 11/12 versus the first half of 12/13 is that some type of crime?

      Had nothing to do with Kenny at all...why do some people bring up how big Brendan is failing when there is half a season left?

      You can compare the 1st 19 of last season or I can compare the last 19...which is fine of course because numbers are easy to manipulate, I choose to use the last 19 because they are closest in time-frames to this seasons first 19.

      I think the problem is that Kenny's last 6 months in charge is not really a fair comparison (imo). Kenny had Suarezgate which took away the player's focus (not to mention losing Luis for 7 games) and then the semi's and finals of two cups which again took away the players focus from a league season that was drifting away from us.

      As I said earlier one of the problems we had last season and again this is that there is not enough genuine competition for places. Too many of our players are too comfortable knowing no matter their performance the manager has little or no alternative but to play them.

      Certainly we fell away badly in the league last season, and if that helps you in your defence of Brendan.... go for it, but lets not forget Kenny won a trophy reached another final and qualified for Europe in that final six months. Brendan's only distractions have been wondering if HIS name was in one of those envelopes :)
      FL Red
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #12: Jan 02, 2013 01:10:48 am
      Why can't we bring in the last half of 11/12 versus the first half of 12/13 is that some type of crime?

      You yourself said
      Quote
      This is for the 1st half of the season only please, lets not bring up issues (good or bad) prior.

      So for consistency it's probably best to just look at this season so as not to get embroiled in another thread arguing Kenny vs. Brendan (Kenny will always win).


      That in mind, my opinion of the owners is that financial stability wise they have done good. Unfortunately it's not something that supporters are really going to care about because it doesn't change the end product on the field. As far as the end product on the field, I would have to give them credit for new deals for Sterling, Agger, Skrtel and Suarez. They have identified the core of our "talent" and have tried to secure those players long term. Unfortunately they cocked up the transfer window, without knowing who was most at fault (Ayre, Rodgers, Werner) I can't give them a total failing grade but ultimately the buck stops with them and they should take responsibility. Personally like the fact that after the transfer debacle they have mostly stayed out of the spotlight and aren't providing too many cringeworthy soundbites.

      As for management, as others said, the academy appears to be a bright spot and the promotions associated there should pay us dividends down the road. Rodgers I think has done a pretty fair job considering he probably had no idea what it would be like to manage a club of this size. He's produced some cringeworthy soundbites and his lack of tactical flexibilty can be debated till the end of time but overall I think he's done pretty good for his first half of the season taking into account injuries and the lack of a really potent strikeforce.

      Players, what can you say about Suarez, simply brilliant. He alone is worth the price of a match ticket. Think our defenders have played at a lower level than they are expected to and have looked a bit stretched at times. Midfield is still trying to find it's identity and obviously our attacking players are being carried by Luis. Sterling appeared to be a bright spot but he really hasn't made much difference in the last several matches in my opinion. He seems to lack a killer instinct but his pace is nice. His problem will be as teams get used to playing him and get some film on him they will figure him out so he better be prepared to pull out some new tricks so to speak. Enrique and Glen have been massive for us and I have to say that Henderson and Downing have actually contributed more than I expected them to although that may not say much.

      I think if we can get some players in that help out Luis, get our defenders actually defending and have FSG in the background not making any serious errors, and if we can get within a sniff of fourth towards the end of the year, I'd have to look at that as progress.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #13: Jan 02, 2013 02:22:21 am
      I think the problem is that Kenny's last 6 months in charge is not really a fair comparison (imo). Kenny had Suarezgate which took away the player's focus (not to mention losing Luis for 7 games) and then the semi's and finals of two cups which again took away the players focus from a league season that was drifting away from us.

      As I said earlier one of the problems we had last season and again this is that there is not enough genuine competition for places. Too many of our players are too comfortable knowing no matter their performance the manager has little or no alternative but to play them.

      Certainly we fell away badly in the league last season, and if that helps you in your defence of Brendan.... go for it, but lets not forget Kenny won a trophy reached another final and qualified for Europe in that final six months. Brendan's only distractions have been wondering if HIS name was in one of those envelopes :)


      No defense there at all Saint.

      We won a cup in the first 6 months of this year.

      We have not won a cup the last 6 months of this year.

      We scored 23 goals the last 19 matches of 11/12

      We scored 30 the first 19 matches of 12/13

      You can call it anything you want....it's neither in defense of Brendan or a criticism of Kenny it is just the facts.

      If I am to be criticized for defending the manager, well so be it..I defended and was disgusted by how his predecessor was also treated (Kenny), my posts are there for all to see.

      If supporting and defending the Liverpool manager is a bad thing then so be it guilty as charged Saint and I accept the consequences just as you had to with Roy.

      I don't think Brendan is faultless and there are defiantly things we need to improve but at the same time I did not expect him to be Christ returned to the earth being perfect in all things and never making mistakes.
      « Last Edit: Jan 02, 2013 02:34:58 am by AZPatriot »
      s@int
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #14: Jan 02, 2013 03:18:04 am

      No defense there at all Saint.

      We won a cup in the first 6 months of this year.

      We have not won a cup the last 6 months of this year.

      We scored 23 goals the last 19 matches of 11/12

      We scored 30 the first 19 matches of 12/13

      You can call it anything you want....it's neither in defense of Brendan or a criticism of Kenny it is just the facts.

      If I am to be criticized for defending the manager, well so be it..I defended and was disgusted by how his predecessor was also treated (Kenny), my posts are there for all to see.

      If supporting and defending the Liverpool manager is a bad thing then so be it guilty as charged Saint and I accept the consequences just as you had to with Roy.

      I don't think Brendan is faultless and there are defiantly things we need to improve but at the same time I did not expect him to be Christ returned to the earth being perfect in all things and never making mistakes.


      Fair enough mate, nothing wrong in defending the manager, but it helps if you get your facts right. We didn't score 30 goals in the first 19 games of this season, neither did we score 23 goals in the last 19 games of last season :)

      http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2012-2013/table/2012-12-26

      AZPatriot
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #15: Jan 02, 2013 03:52:25 am
      Fair enough mate, nothing wrong in defending the manager, but it helps if you get your facts right. We didn't score 30 goals in the first 19 games of this season, neither did we score 23 goals in the last 19 games of last season :)

      http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2012-2013/table/2012-12-26



      Just as a reminder saint our conversation was league 2nd half 11/12 versus league 1st half 12/13

      No matter how many times I add this up I come up with 23 goals for last 19 beginning on 3rd of January 2012 (19 matches)

      January
      3 Jan, 20:00    Manchester City 3 - 0 Liverpool   Premier League                  (0 point)
      14 Jan, 15:00    Liverpool  0 - 0 Stoke City    Premier League                          (1 point)
      21 Jan, 17:30    Bolton Wanderers 3 - 1 Liverpool Premier League                 (0 point)
      31 Jan, 19:45    Wolverhampton Wanderers 0 - 3 Liverpool   Premier League  (3 point)
       
      February
      6 Feb, 20:00    Liverpool 0 - 0 Tottenham Hotspur   Premier League          (1 point)
      11 Feb, 12:45    Manchester United 2 - 1 Liverpool   Premier League          (0 point)
       
      March
      3 Mar, 12:45    Liverpool 1 - 2 Arsenal   Premier League                          (0 point)
      10 Mar, 15:00    Sunderland 1 - 0 Liverpool   Premier League                          (0 point)
      13 Mar, 20:00    Liverpool 3 - 0 Everton   Premier League                          (3 point)
      21 Mar, 20:00    Queens Park Rangers 3 - 2 Liverpool   Premier League          (0 point)
      24 Mar, 15:00    Liverpool 1 - 2 Wigan Athletic   Premier League                  (0 Point)

      April
      1 Apr, 13:30    Newcastle United 2 - 0 Liverpool   Premier League                  (0 point)
      7 Apr, 15:00    Liverpool 1 - 1 Aston Villa   Premier League                          (1 point)
      10 Apr, 20:00    Blackburn Rovers 2 - 3 Liverpool   Premier League                  (3 point)
      22 Apr, 16:00    Liverpool 0 - 1 West Bromwich Albion   Premier League          (0 point)
      28 Apr, 17:30    Norwich City 0 - 3 Liverpool   Premier League                  (3 point)

      May
      1 May, 19:45    Liverpool 0 - 1 Fulham   Premier League                          (0 point)
      8 May, 20:00    Liverpool 4 - 1 Chelsea   Premier League                          (3 point)           
      13 May, 15:00    Swansea City 1 - 0 Liverpool   Premier League                  (0 point)
       
      19 Premier league Matches 23 goals 18 points


      August
      18 Aug, 15:00    West Bromwich Albion 3 - 0 Liverpool   Premier League   (0 point)
      26 Aug, 16:00    Liverpool 2 - 2 Manchester City   Premier League           (1 point)
       
      September
      2 Sep, 13:30    Liverpool 0 - 2 Arsenal   Premier League                  (0 point)
      15 Sep, 17:30    Sunderland 1 - 1 Liverpool   Premier League                  (1 point)
      23 Sep, 13:30    Liverpool 1 - 2 Manchester United   Premier League  (0 point)
      29 Sep, 15:00    Norwich City 2 - 5 Liverpool   Premier League          (3 point)

      October
      7 Oct, 15:00    Liverpool 0 - 0 Stoke City   Premier League                  (1 point)
      20 Oct, 15:00    Liverpool 1 - 0 Reading   Premier League                  (3 point)
      28 Oct, 13:30    Everton 2 - 2 Liverpool   Premier League                  (1 point)
       
      November
         4 Nov, 16:00    Liverpool 1 - 1 Newcastle United   Premier League          (1 point)
       11 Nov, 16:00    Chelsea 1 - 1 Liverpool   Premier League                  (1 point)
      17 Nov, 15:00    Liverpool 3 - 0 Wigan Athletic   Premier League          (3 point)
      25 Nov, 13:30    Swansea City 0 - 0 Liverpool   Premier League          (1 point)
      28 Nov, 19:45    Tottenham Hotspur 2 - 1 Liverpool Premier League       (0 point)

      December
      1 Dec, 15:00    Liverpool 1 - 0 Southampton   Premier League          (3 point)
      9 Dec, 16:00    West Ham United 2 - 3 Liverpool   Premier League          (3 point)
      15 Dec, 15:00    Liverpool 1 - 3 Aston Villa   Premier League                  (0 point)
      22 Dec, 17:30    Liverpool 4 - 0 Fulham   Premier League                  (3 point)
      26 Dec, 19:45    Stoke City 3 - 1 Liverpool   Premier League                  (0 point)
      30 Dec, 16:00    Queens Park Rangers 0 - 3 Liverpool   Premier League  (3 point)

      20 Premier League Matches  31 goals  28 points http://www.statto.com/football/teams/liverpool/2012-2013/results

      January 3rd  - May 15th  2012 19 league matches 23 goals/18 points

      August 18th - December 30th 2012  20 league matches 31 goals/28 points


      And yes I do see we played 1 extra match.


      It's not an slam on Kenny nor is it kudos to Brendan......it is what it is the raw data that any side of the argument can twist for whatever purpose they want.


      As people are comparing Brendan to Kenny (which is wrong as comparing Kenny to Rafa was wrong last season) I would ask the question can Brendan finish the FA cup and Europa league and the rest of the Premier League before we call him sh*t and bury him as a clueless tw*t that is learning as he goes and is in over his head?

      Is progress being made? I suppose that up to ones interpretation, last year despite the 2 cup finals it was our worst league points in what 50 years? This year is not starting out much better, I would not say either last season nor this one so far has been a roaring success either way; but I think I will withhold judgement until 5/19/2013 and our final match against QPR to make a final comparison between the 2 years.

      As most people should know that being pro-Brendan does not make anyone anti-Kenny, just like being pro-Kenny last season was not being anti-Rafa

      With the exception of Roy (we really dont need to discuss why? right) all of us should get behind every LFC manager; we are not supposed to be picking sides we are supposed to be supporting one another.

      Need someone to blame for last years finish or this years beginning?

      Angry at firing Kenny and/or not rehiring Rafa?

      Blame the owners

      Brendan did not do any of this.
      « Last Edit: Jan 02, 2013 04:39:22 am by AZPatriot »
      s@int
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #16: Jan 02, 2013 05:32:38 am
      :D you can't say 19 games and 30 goals when it was 19 games and 28 goals then say you included an extra game...... which would make it 31 goals not 30 goals.

      I don't think anyone is burying Brendan as a clueless tw*t, but you can only ARGUE FACTS on a manager on what he has accomplished not on what he might possibly win at some time in the future. So the fa cup run that we all hope Brendan achieves can't be used in any argument whilst Kenny's FA cup final and League cup win can be used as Kenny achieved those.

      I can say that imo I think Kenny would have done much better this season in the league than he did last year, but that is an opinion not a fact.

      I honestly haven't seen any progress this season,  rather than the slow two steps forward - one step back, for me it has been two steps forward - two steps back.

      Last season we did reasonably well against the top 10 sides but fell badly short against the minnows while this season our record against the top 10 sides has been terrible (played 10 won 0) so logically we must have done reasonably well against the minnows.

      As I have said repeatedly, without heavy investment in quality players I honestly don't see this changing. Systems, tactical genius whatever, without top quality players you are not going to win this league any time soon. Certainly we are desperately short in certain positions, but we also need competition for places..... something we have lacked for a few years now.   

      I can only be honest. I have been disappointed with Brendan so far, even taking into account the lack of backing he received in the summer, I expected much better.... just as I would have expected much better from Kenny.

      That doesn't mean I want Brendan sacked, just that he needs to improve both the team AND his own performance if we are to progress.

      I would have expected top four from Kenny this season if he had stayed or at least a decent stab at it, I expect similar and/or a good cup run from Brendan or why bother changing.

      Hopefully it will all start to click into place in the second half of the season.... but I won't be holding my breath. Certainly for me the season so far has been one big disappointment both on and off the field and Brendan the players and FSG are all responsible.



       


       

      « Last Edit: Jan 02, 2013 05:45:07 am by s@int »
      AZPatriot
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #17: Jan 02, 2013 06:10:07 am

      :D you can't say 19 games and 30 goals when it was 19 games and 28 goals then say you included an extra game...... which would make it 31 goals not 30 goals.


      You got me cheating again Saint, no doubt manipulating my numbers as us superfans tend to do...:)


      Fair enough mate, nothing wrong in defending the manager, but it helps if you get your facts right. We didn't score 30 goals in the first 19 games of this season, neither did we score 23 goals in the last 19 games of last season :)

      http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2012-2013/table/2012-12-26



      How off was I on the 23 scored btw? What did I leave out?......;)
      s@int
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #18: Jan 02, 2013 06:31:27 am
      No problem mate,  I split the season up into two blocks of 19 games and took the 24 goals we scored in the first half of the season instead of the 23 we scored in the second half. I was wrong but not as wrong as you were and I didn't bother trying to cheat :D 

      The more interesting fact is that although we scored only one goal more in the first half of last season we got 34 points in the first half of the season, but only 18 points in the second half. 
      Billy1
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #19: Jan 02, 2013 07:29:02 am
       One word for me describes our season so far and that is inconsistency.It annoys me that we can play so well one match then go arse over heels the next match.
      Redtrader
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #20: Jan 02, 2013 09:27:07 am
      Underwhelmed by the owners, let's not give them too much credit, they got the club on the cheap, and fu**ed over H&G, which I will be grateful for. FSG seem truly clueless in regards to the football world, it's seems they left Kenny in the lurch with the Suarez matter, and have appointed people who know sod all about football transfers. Allowing Commolli, Kenny, whoever to sanction buying Carroll at £35m, Hendo at £20m and Downing at £20m plus was an embarrassment. We had very little competition for these players, and by playing hardball could have saved a third, easily, IMHO. Having realised they were stung they've done a 180 in two respects, firstly by becoming so tight that we lost out on Dempsey, which was a farce, and secondly they decided against having a powerful and popular manager such as Kenny, for the grateful, cheap, untried and inexperienced BR. It seems to me that they are just babysitting the club, stagnating, and maybe looking for a buyer eventually?

      As every Liverpool supporter I want BR to do well, but I honestly see very little substance in anything he does, he contradicts himself, and has a very thin CV, we have him, and have to hope for the best, but would anyone here really have appointed him? The reason why our results are so up and down is because I don't think he has a great deal of control on the tactical side, if the opposition aren't prepared well, see QPR game, then our players natural ability comes to the fore, when the opposition do their homework, Stoke, we get hammered. I think he talks too much to the press/talk sh*te and think this is just for self preservation, I suppose you are less likely to get 'Rodgers under pressure' headline if you cosy up to them.

      I am dissappointed by the results because I firmly believe that our squad should be higher up the league table, I was not expecting a title challenge, but I think it's fair enough to expect us to be above WBA, everton, Stoke, and be within a couple of points of fourth. CL football is vital for us now more than ever, since aside from our reputation and name, it is the ONLY way we can attract top level players, sadly very few top players would be coming over for the chance to work under Brendan. His obsession with passing in our own half, if it continues, will fail, sides with better players, chelsea, mancs, move the ball forward quickly, and we will continue to get caught out. It seemed in the QPR game we had changed, but it may just have been the players, our second goal coming from a long ball to Luis.

      I think the players are trying hard to implement BR plans, but seem confused with what they have to do, frightened in some games to put in longer, direct passes. Pepe no longer distributes the ball, through a throw or kick, as we know he can. There is far too much criticism of Gerrard, he is only 32, the reason why he does not look as effective is because his game is based on quick movement and space in front of him, one twos, and fizzed passes, our current system doesn't always allow this.

      Overall I am most dissappointed with the owners, they are appearing more and more like H&G, but just with a velvet glove. Although I am uninspired by BR, it's FSG that appointed him.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #21: Jan 02, 2013 11:23:29 am
      The reason I brought up the players like Maxi, Kuyt, Bellamy and Carroll leaving wasn't solely about goals AZ.

      Rodgers knew they were leaving when he took the job, the primary focus in my opinion should have been replacing them.

      We had Gerrard, Lucas, Henderson, Adam, Aquilani, Spearing and Shelvey who could all play central midfield.

      Was Allen and Sahin a must, considering the area's that were depleted in the squad with Bellamy, Maxi, Kuyt and Carroll leaving ?

      Since the summer transfer window Rodgers has bemoaned the fact the squad is too small and the fact that he's had to thrust youth into the first team to cover two of the positions of the 4 players that left, we've no back up for Suarez with Borini being injured which was always a possibility.

      We can all refer to the Dempsey situation but again with the 4 players leaving that contributed to a massive percentage of goals in the previous season why wasn't the attacking area's given priority?

      Scotia
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      Re: 1st Half-Season Critique (Owner/Management/Players)
      Reply #22: Jan 02, 2013 12:13:59 pm
      Owners - Factor in the Jen Chang debacle and the first half of 2012-13 has been a complete mess for the owners.

      As I've said previously - their intentions apart - they seem to lurch from cock-up to cock-up to me. Even the way our transfer rumours are reported reeks of havoc, not control.

      The lack of any coherent direction is disappointing but hardly new. To leave Liverpool in a position where we have one proven striker for half a season is just incompetent from football owners.

      As regards the stadium - I'm still not massively clear what's really happened other than they've refined their thinking. Maybe I'm missing something.

      Brendan - like most - I want him to succeed but feel conflicted and frustrated. Bluntly it's a "must do better" on the report card for me.

      Is the job too big? Time will tell - but I really hope not. If he could cut down the hyperbole then his footballing principles and social background could / should make for a good fit.

      He seems to be able to get a reaction out the players - but conversely doesn't seem to be able to sustain it. That's a worry because after a while the impact of what's getting a reaction will wane.

      His signings have been disappointing for me. 

      We haven't seen much from Borrini but he deserves time given injury etc, but like Carroll there is no sustained track record of goals at top level.

      Joe Allen has been a mixed bag - I can see his pluses but never bought into some of the "lauding" of first couple of months and he's been poor since October.

      Assaidi - we simply haven't seen enough of but you have to ask why?

      Yesil looks sharp but very green and wasn't bought for now so he has time.

      Sahin - just hasn't been the player we saw at Dortmund. Looks slow and out of sorts - could be due to lack of games and being played out of position but hasn't shown much to merit more game time.

      Tactics - I've said ad nauseum so will spare you all again the detail. Put simply we need more variety. We're easy to figure out. On the upside - he has brought in a number of the kids who have done well under him and he appears to have a real vision of what he wants to do on the park. The question is has / will he (have) the players to do it effectively and will it be sustainable.

      Players - they must do better as well. Too many players off-form.

      Defence- Pepe has improved a bit recently but needs to sustain. Skrtel looks a shadow of the player of last season and the partnership with Dagger is miles away from much of last season.

      Johnson and Enrique have come back to form - GJ pretty consistent all season for me and Jose in last 6 weeks getting there.

      Midfield - nowhere near good enough. We look soft and lack creativity - Stevie getting a lot of grief from some but still by some distance our best midfielder this season. I think we need some assertiveness and creativity in here. Lucas isn't Lucas yet and I think we could have used Spearing quite a bit thus far.

      Forwards / Wingers - Suarez and Sterling and er that's it. Luis has been best player in the league by a country mile. Raheem has done well but needs a rest - as much to make sure he realises this isn't easy as physically. His form has dipped - which is to be expected. Suso has promise but needs a more solid midfield foundation to work from to get best of him. Both the owners and manager need to accept culpability for how short we are in this area - I'll give brunt to owners but BR isnt blameless.

      Overall I guess I'm frustrated and disappointed that we've regressed this season. There's 5 months and a transfer window to go but we need to get motoring. The manager needs time, support and funds but he has to do better with whatever he gets.

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