Daniel Sturridge (Contract Expired)

A clinical No 9 grabs a goal out of somewhere.

Yeah and we put that 'clinical' number 9 on and he was given the chances to do a job which he didn't, yet somehow he's the answer to the problems. Mind boggling.

Yeah and we put that 'clinical' number 9 on and he was given the chances to do a job which he didn't, yet somehow he's the answer to the problems. Mind boggling.

I said he used to be.

Point still stands Aguero, Kane, Lukaku, Lacazette etc will score a vital goal to scrape a 2-1 or 1-0.
Bobby has lots of good points, scoring goals is not at the top of the list.

Yeah and we put that 'clinical' number 9 on and he was given the chances to do a job which he didn't, yet somehow he's the answer to the problems. Mind boggling.

We don't know who the "answer to the problems" is, but we know who ISN'T the answer. Based on last night, Bobby Heskey isn't the answer to anything. Obviously there's a chance he'll play better next time (I would have thought it is almost a certainty, that's the worst I've EVER seen him play), but the idea that we might consider giving someone else a go after that showing could only possibly be controversial on here, with you .

We don't know who the "answer to the problems" is, but we know who ISN'T the answer. Based on last night, Bobby Heskey isn't the answer to anything. Obviously there's a chance he'll play better next time (I would have thought it is almost a certainty, that's the worst I've EVER seen him play), but the idea that we might consider giving someone else a go after that showing could only possibly be controversial on here, with you .

I don't think using Heskey is a great example given how much he got the best out of someone like Michael Owen, winning quite a few trophies in a couple year period and indeed ENABLING Owen to have the best ever years of his career. I know he's become a long running joke amongst some but he was a good player because he was selfless. And similar to Heskey (Kuyt even) the efforts and runs that Firmino provides will enable and unlock the attacking talent of those around him. The major differences being that on this occasion Firmino is a lot more dynamic and of a much MUCH higher level technically than those two other selfless players to the point where he can produce his own individual pieces of brilliance.

I don't mind if you think Sturridge is the better player given his history and record with us. Plenty do and plenty will. But under Klopp he's not the right player. And being the right player as opposed to a better player is more important in winning football matches and trophies. Firmino's the right player. If you think starting all the best players into the team, despite all the contradictions they throw up, is the way to go about it then just look at Sven Goran Eriksson's England team. The very definition of ham-fisted.

This is the thing that is so typical of the English mentality - 'he's an x so he should do this and not that'. Such conservative, pigeon holed, regimented bullshit thinking (then again this is the land of Hodgson...the land before time). Who says he shouldn't be a 'space creator' or whatever it's called? If you don't think creating space or the concept of space in a football match is important then you should go on Soccer Saturday and sit alongside the rest of those lobotomised wankers.

For what it's worth, I don't judge Firmino on just how many goals he scores. I'll judge him on exactly how he contributes to our attacking moves and how he can work with those around him and how he brings them into the game. By comparison, Sturridge, while a great goalscorer (but sadly not reliable enough due to his awful injury record) just isn't selfless enough to commit to the sort of work rate that is so dependent on making our attack work to the maximum. Firmino is.

Ok - we haven't score nearly enough in the last few games so there's definitely an issue and while Roberto's lack of form is one thing (he had an absolute shocker last night - atrocious), chopping and changing the attacking lineup because of injury and suspension has certainly not helped our goal scoring side of things lately. But since Klopp has arrived and as evidenced in many matches in the first half of last season where we were scoring 4 to 5 goals quite regularly, Firmino was absolutely central to those scorelines. He's shown in the past just how important he is when everything is settled and on form.

I don't think think people are saying "he's an X and therefore he should do that" and nothing else. Just like Mignolet, nobody is saying he should save shots and nothing else, it also would help if he comes out for crosses, commans his area, eases the pressure on the back four, distributes well etc. BUT, and here's the crux, as a basic he must save shots. It's pretty obvious really, goalkeepers must save shots and centre forwards must score goals WHEN YOU NEED THEM.

Now it's lovely that Bobby runs around a lot, drifts out of the centre, runs well off the ball and all that stuff, absolutely smashing. But when your in a tight game, as HSBC says, you need a striker who can nick you a goal out of nothing. Failing that make you a goal out of nothing, and Bobby the arch creator couldn't even manage a five yard pass to Salah.

This is the thing that is so typical of the English mentality - 'he's an x so he should do this and not that'. Such conservative, pigeon holed, regimented bullshit thinking (then again this is the land of Hodgson...the land before time). Who says he shouldn't be a 'space creator' or whatever it's called? If you don't think creating space or the concept of space in a football match is important then you should go on Soccer Saturday and sit alongside the rest of those lobotomised wankers.

For what it's worth, I don't judge Firmino on just how many goals he scores. I'll judge him on exactly how he contributes to our attacking moves and how he can work with those around him and how he brings them into the game. By comparison, Sturridge, while a great goalscorer (but sadly not reliable enough due to his awful injury record) just isn't selfless enough to commit to the sort of work rate that is so dependent on making our attack work to the maximum. Firmino is.

Ok - we haven't score nearly enough in the last few games so there's definitely an issue and while Roberto's lack of form is one thing (he had an absolute shocker last night - atrocious), chopping and changing the attacking lineup because of injury and suspension has certainly not helped our goal scoring side of things lately. But since Klopp has arrived and as evidenced in many matches in the first half of last season where we were scoring 4 to 5 goals quite regularly, Firmino was absolutely central to those scorelines. He's shown in the past just how important he is when everything is settled and on form.

I don't think think people are saying "he's an X and therefore he should do that" and nothing else. Just like Mignolet, nobody is saying he should save shots and nothing else, it also would help if he comes out for crosses, eases the pressure on the back four, distributes well etc. BUT, and here's the crux, as a basic he must save shots. It's pretty obvious really, goalkeepers must save shots and centre forwards must score goals WHEN YOU NEED THEM.

Now it's lovely that Bobby runs around a lot, drifts out of the centre, runs well off the ball and all that stuff, absolutely smashing. But when your in a tight game, as HSBC says, you need a striker who can nick you a goal out of nothing. Failing that make you a goal out of nothing, and Bobby the arch creator couldn't even manage a five yard pass to Salah.

I agree that in the event of a tight game you need an individual who can make a goal out of nothing but I'd rather put out a team that offers something and a purpose before nothing becomes an option. That's when Danny's useful as a sub. Much easier to input individual brilliance into a team that plays with a purpose than being a team with no purpose that relies just on individual brilliance. Starting off a match with a preference of individual brilliance over a collective plan will never win anything in time.

I agree that in the event of a tight game you need an individual who can make a goal out of nothing but I'd rather put out a team that offers something and a purpose before nothing becomes an option. That's when Danny's useful as a sub. Much easier to input individual brilliance into a team that plays with a purpose than being a team with no purpose that relies just on individual brilliance. Starting off a match with a preference of individual brilliance over a collective plan will never win anything in time.

It's not really "individual brilliance" I'm talking about mate, neither am I necessarily saying Sturridge is the answer (and lets face it, even if he is it'll only be for a few games until he gets injured). What I'm talking about is your striker getting you a poachers goal, a rebound, a tap in, a free header from eight yards, whatever it takes really. There's no "individual brilliance" about it, it's a centre forward doing his job.

As for "never winning anything in time" I'll tell you this here and now. You don't win a lot with a centre forward who'll be lucky to get a dozen goals in open play all season, regardless of how many "assists" he gets.

It's not really "individual brilliance" I'm talking about mate, neither am I necessarily saying Sturridge is the answer (and lets face it, even if he is it'll only be for a few games until he gets injured). What I'm talking about is your striker getting you a poachers goal, a rebound, a tap in, a free header from eight yards, whatever it takes really. There's no "individual brilliance" about it, it's a centre forward doing his job.

As for "never winning anything in time" I'll tell you this here and now. You don't win a lot with a centre forward who'll be lucky to get a dozen goals in open play all season, regardless of how many "assists" he gets.

Milan Baroš may tell you otherwise. 

You'd think last night was a decent opportunity to pick your 2nd striker from the start, and sub later if needed. Away, opposition not super strong, Bob not having been great just recently - why not give him a wee break, take some pressure off, get him on as sub later if needed.
But if Studge STILL can't get a start under those circumstances, why the hell didn't Jürgen just go sell him in the summer and get in someone else/or keep Origi. Was same last year, even when fit, he wasn't starting Studge, or giving him much game time.
Not doing Bob any good that he doesn't have trusted backup and has to play when not in good form and get crucified. Not doing Studge any good to know he can't even get a start even when Bob having dip in form.

In Studge's defense, still think he's the best natural finisher we have, though year on year he's loosing a half yard of pace and doesn't close down much when not in possession. But you have to give him more than 20 mins here and there to get some match sharpness. Tbh think he's on a bit of a hiding to nothing right now, unless something changes hard to see him getting much of a run unless Firmino actually gets injured.

You'd think last night was a decent opportunity to pick your 2nd striker from the start, and sub later if needed. Away, opposition not super strong, Bob not having been great just recently - why not give him a wee break, take some pressure off, get him on as sub later if needed.
But if Studge STILL can't get a start under those circumstances, why the hell didn't Jürgen just go sell him in the summer and get in someone else/or keep Origi. Was same last year, even when fit, he wasn't starting Studge, or giving him much game time.
Not doing Bob any good that he doesn't have trusted backup and has to play when not in good form and get crucified. Not doing Studge any good to know he can't even get a start even when Bob having dip in form.

In Studge's defense, still think he's the best natural finisher we have, though year on year he's loosing a half yard of pace and doesn't close down much when not in possession. But you have to give him more than 20 mins here and there to get some match sharpness. Tbh think he's on a bit of a hiding to nothing right now, unless something changes hard to see him getting much of a run unless Firmino actually gets injured.

So our first CL game away from home in years you think Klopp should be picking second string players?

Not a chance.

So our first CL game away from home in years you think Klopp should be picking second string players?

Not a chance.

Karius?

Karius?

Fair comment that Mick and to be honest I'd prefer a clear first choice but for some reason it's become the new thing to rotate 'keepers for different competitions.

Now if you were to ask me who I'd choose as first choice I'd right now put Ward in. How much we pay attention to Schmeichel's view I'm not sure but I get the impression he thought as much of the lad as I did when he arrived so I haven't given up total hope on Karius either:

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/859238/Liverpool-news-Loris-Karius-Manuel-Neuer-Peter-Schmeichel-Bayern-Munich-Simon-Mignolet

I was just bitterly disappointed with his effort to save the free-kick. On watching again though it has to be said Mane doesn't cover himself in glory in the wall, even still the 'dive' wasn't good enough in my book.

So our first CL game away from home in years you think Klopp should be picking second string players?

Not a chance.

This is a side in mid table, in a weaker league. Firmino has had a dip in form, hasn't been scoring (and as it turned out was also poor on the night)
Don't want to bash Bob, that's not the point.   I just don't see when exactly Jürgen plans to start his backup striker, and in that case, why the heck he bothered to keep him..

Karius?

If we see him again this season, it'll be too soon.
Sorry, but he's an accident waiting to happen.

If he gets a start tomorrow night, needs to get on the scoresheet.
There's an ultimatum for you!

He didn't start, so ultimatum is null and void

This is a side in mid table, in a weaker league. Firmino has had a dip in form, hasn't been scoring (and as it turned out was also poor on the night)
Don't want to bash Bob, that's not the point.   I just don't see when exactly Jürgen plans to start his backup striker, and in that case, why the heck he bothered to keep him..

Bob had one poor performance, you don't drop anyone on the back of 1 poor game imo. Now that it's 2 there's more of a case for it, having said that I wouldn't and I don't expect him to be dropped due to how much credit he has in the bank. A quiet word, step up your game and we'll be fine.

As for his plans with Sturridge, I honestly think he sees him as a super sub now, while he may get the odd full game to give others a rest I think Jürgen is resigned to the fact that Sturridge doesn't last the 90 and doesn't have the impact from the start of a game others dream he does or could. Off the bench I think he's looked the best he has for a long time for us and while the goals haven't been going in for him, they will.

If Bobby is to be dropped I'd be not at all surprised to see Solanke get the start and I think the lad can do some serious work too. I wouldn't be against playing Solanke and Bobby behind him, think we could see a great partnership develop.

It's not really "individual brilliance" I'm talking about mate, neither am I necessarily saying Sturridge is the answer (and lets face it, even if he is it'll only be for a few games until he gets injured). What I'm talking about is your striker getting you a poachers goal, a rebound, a tap in, a free header from eight yards, whatever it takes really. There's no "individual brilliance" about it, it's a centre forward doing his job.

As for "never winning anything in time" I'll tell you this here and now. You don't win a lot with a centre forward who'll be lucky to get a dozen goals in open play all season, regardless of how many "assists" he gets.

I could see your point if we were wholly dependent on his goals to see us through but we're not.

Bob had one poor performance, you don't drop anyone on the back of 1 poor game imo. Now that it's 2 there's more of a case for it, having said that I wouldn't and I don't expect him to be dropped due to how much credit he has in the bank. A quiet word, step up your game and we'll be fine.

Think its 4 goals in 10 starts now for Bob.
Sure Sturridge likely won't last the full 90, but that's what subs are for.
And if Jürgen is so worried about him not lasting the full 90 that he won't start him, why didn't he just move him on in the summer and be done with it - and get someone he WILL start when our front mans goals dry up somewhat. Unless he sees 3mill Solanke is our best planB.

I'd start Bob in the next game, not saying he's not first choice.
Just think last night was an good opportunity to start Danny. Don't see the logic in how Jürgen is (not) using him.

Think its 4 goals in 10 starts now for Bob.
Sure Sturridge likely won't last the full 90, but that's what subs are for.
And if Jürgen is so worried about him not lasting the full 90 that he won't start him, why didn't he just move him on in the summer and be done with it - and get someone he WILL start when our front mans goals dry up somewhat. Unless he sees 3mill Solanke is our best planB.

I'd start Bob in the next game, not saying he's not first choice.
Just think last night was an good opportunity to start Danny. Don't see the logic in how Jürgen is (not) using him.

First part is a fair question. I would have, I'd have sold Sturridge and gone for Aubameyang without a second thought but if anyone knows Auba well it's Jürgen so I can't answer that question as well as I'm sure he could.

I disagree completely with ever starting Danny atm as I think I've made clear. I'd go as far as to say I'd prefer to see Mane or Salah moved central than starting Danny, I just don't think 30 mins of good play is worth it over a full match. If people think he could get back up to 90 minutes fitness then fine, I just don't at all.

I was laughed off for saying it ages ago: Klopp does not like Sturridge. He doesn't rate him.

Was the same last year. Fit and ready.. didn't get games. Rinse and repeat.

Is it obvious for everyone else now? 

I disagree completely with ever starting Danny atm as I think I've made clear. I'd go as far as to say I'd prefer to see Mane or Salah moved central than starting Danny, I just don't think 30 mins of good play is worth it over a full match. If people think he could get back up to 90 minutes fitness then fine, I just don't at all.

Don't think he has a full 90mins in him either, in a close match.
But if you're saying you'd prefer to see Mane or Salah as a sticking plaster/better option in the striker position. that's a pretty big inheret criticism of Jürgen and the state of our forward options.  So we're agreed on that

I was laughed off for saying it ages ago: Klopp does not like Sturridge. He doesn't rate him.

Was the same last year. Fit and ready.. didn't get games. Rinse and repeat.

Is it obvious for everyone else now? 

If that was the case I think he would have got rid